Jaylen Brown, Year 7

BaseballJones

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Haha, I thought about that as well!
The funny thing is, SU's zone was extended just like Miami's was. Obviously Miami's players are light years better, but the principles are the same. Teams buried Syracuse by having a good shooter/passer at the foul line. It forced the defense to either collapse, which opened up the outside for shooters, or bring the big man up from the paint, which opened the baseline. Defenses take things away, but by definition give things up. There are basic principles of beating a zone that Boston really struggled to find. Mind-boggling.
 

Myt1

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Because Coach Joe, and Coach Ime and Coach Brad think you MUST set a screen on ball to get into that 1on1. The problem is when you're screener is Marcus or TL, and there is absolutely no threat of an outside shot (or alternatively, you want them shooting), the defender playing the screener just doubles or sticks close to the ball handler.
I feel like Smart even realizes this, because his effort in setting screens—especially for the ball handler at the top of the key—is generally to run vaguely in the direction of the guy he’s screening, slowing down to maybe brush him, and then speeding back up away from him.
 

Cellar-Door

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I love the idea people have here that the reason the Celtics have struggled for YEARS with the zone is somehow the coaching.... they know how to beat a zone, we've seen it, we even saw this series Joe take a timeout, set the offense with Tatum in the key spot, crush the zone.... BUT they just won't consistently do it because it's hard and it doesn't play to what their ball handlers want to do, so as soon as they miss a shot against zone they go to "well we tried coach's way, time for me to shine", which of course is the issue with a lot of our halfcourt offense...which is "it's my turn"
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yeah, I really don't think there's a lack of awarenss of what to do vs a zone---we saw it numerous times in this series, with different players as the pivot guy to beat it. But--like many other things about this team---they also struggled to be consistent about doing it.

I would have said that is coaching, at least in part, other than now having seen several coaches get the same results....which suggests it is mostly/wholly about the players and their tendencies/preferences.
 

Just a bit outside

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There were also multiple times where they hit Al in the middle who kicked to the corner and they missed an open 3. You can talk all you want about beating the zone but if you only hit 20% of your open threes it doesn’t matter.
 

8slim

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The funny thing is, SU's zone was extended just like Miami's was. Obviously Miami's players are light years better, but the principles are the same. Teams buried Syracuse by having a good shooter/passer at the foul line. It forced the defense to either collapse, which opened up the outside for shooters, or bring the big man up from the paint, which opened the baseline. Defenses take things away, but by definition give things up. There are basic principles of beating a zone that Boston really struggled to find. Mind-boggling.
My 16 year old has watched a lot of SU hoops with me over the years, and he spent the past 2 weeks yelling at the TV as the Cs repeatedly failed to beat the zone. Mind boggling is right.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I love the idea people have here that the reason the Celtics have struggled for YEARS with the zone is somehow the coaching.... they know how to beat a zone, we've seen it, we even saw this series Joe take a timeout, set the offense with Tatum in the key spot, crush the zone.... BUT they just won't consistently do it because it's hard and it doesn't play to what their ball handlers want to do, so as soon as they miss a shot against zone they go to "well we tried coach's way, time for me to shine", which of course is the issue with a lot of our halfcourt offense...which is "it's my turn"
If Marcus Smart is consistently running out to the 3 point line to set screens against the zone, or Al, or Tatum isn't setting up at the free throw line, you think the Coach just has no responsibility there?

I'm confused, you are basically arguing that the coach made the adjustments, and the team ignored him? I would argue that actually makes the point, that he's not the guy to coach the team. If Marcus can't be coached to get the fuck out of the way when we get into the right matchup, then Marcus needs to be benched. That's the coach's job.
 

8slim

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I love the idea people have here that the reason the Celtics have struggled for YEARS with the zone is somehow the coaching.... they know how to beat a zone, we've seen it, we even saw this series Joe take a timeout, set the offense with Tatum in the key spot, crush the zone.... BUT they just won't consistently do it because it's hard and it doesn't play to what their ball handlers want to do, so as soon as they miss a shot against zone they go to "well we tried coach's way, time for me to shine", which of course is the issue with a lot of our halfcourt offense...which is "it's my turn"
But of course that's it. Beating a zone isn't rocket science, it just requires commitment. And this team clearly has immense trouble commiting to anything.
 

benhogan

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Joe played Syracuse 3 times and made 1 shot against them. So maybe he's not the best guy to draw upon his playing experience and beat the zone.
I'm here for all the Cuse hoops talk, nothing says disappointing end to a season better than Syracuse basketball these days o_O
 

Auger34

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In Game 7, it really seemed like they just couldn’t hit the shots needed to beat the zone.

I’m specifically remembering Tatum getting the ball at the nail, with no one near him, then firing up one of the biggest bricks I have ever seen him shoot from 2 point range.
 

bosockboy

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In Game 7, it really seemed like they just couldn’t hit the shots needed to beat the zone.

I’m specifically remembering Tatum getting the ball at the nail, with no one near him, then firing up one of the biggest bricks I have ever seen him shoot from 2 point range.
Yep that really stood out-they were tight as a drum.
 

Spelunker

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There were also multiple times where they hit Al in the middle who kicked to the corner and they missed an open 3. You can talk all you want about beating the zone but if you only hit 20% of your open threes it doesn’t matter.
Yeah, the approach to zone-breaking looked fine a lot of the time, we just didn't make enough open shots for it to matter.
 

NomarsFool

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All the discussion around how Jaylen Brown's game doesn't pair well with Tatum, I don't quite get it. Yes, they are both wings - but JB is a 2/3 and JT is a 3/4, they fit fine on the court together. Would it be ideal if the second best player on the Celtics was a big or a PG, sure - but most PGs (who are All-NBA level) are extremely ball dominant, and that wouldn't fit well with Tatum, I think. Elite bigs very often have issues with clogging the paint, which also doesn't seem to fit great with Tatum. Would it be better if JB was a better shooter - of course? But, their games do seem quite complementary to me. Brown is more transition, Tatum is more half-court.
 

Jakarta

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On the assumption he is back, what do we want to see out of Jaylen?

Personally, I would like to see Jaylen develop a post game. His mid range game is lethal, so he should be able to develop this easily. It should help to accentuate his strength, athleticism, and mid range shooting, while making his decision making easier, and less ball handling issues from trying to penetrate against a set defense which seem to be his 2 biggest weaknesses.

The other piece that I think would be helpful is if he could develop a bit of Ray Allen’s ability to shoot off a series of off ball screens. Ray was elite, but Jaylen is athletic and a good enough shooter that he could do this at a decent level. The other benefit (maybe even the primary one) is the movement and attention the defense has to pay to him doing that which means fewer eyes on JT, making him even more dangerous
 

radsoxfan

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All the discussion around how Jaylen Brown's game doesn't pair well with Tatum, I don't quite get it. Yes, they are both wings - but JB is a 2/3 and JT is a 3/4, they fit fine on the court together. Would it be ideal if the second best player on the Celtics was a big or a PG, sure - but most PGs (who are All-NBA level) are extremely ball dominant, and that wouldn't fit well with Tatum, I think. Elite bigs very often have issues with clogging the paint, which also doesn't seem to fit great with Tatum. Would it be better if JB was a better shooter - of course? But, their games do seem quite complementary to me. Brown is more transition, Tatum is more half-court.
I actually don't think it's a JT/JB fit issue as much as it's just that Jaylen likely isn't going to "fit" that well with anyone.

He is really good at what he does well, but he is mostly an individual player who doesn't see the floor well on offense, is turnover prone, and doesn't anticipate well on defense.

He's a very good player but a clear 2nd banana scoring wing rather than a JT who is a much better all around 1A type player. Jaylen can certainly be a valuable piece on a title team but it's going to be by brute force rather than finding a perfect chemistry fit with someone else.
 

slamminsammya

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I feel like Smart even realizes this, because his effort in setting screens—especially for the ball handler at the top of the key—is generally to run vaguely in the direction of the guy he’s screening, slowing down to maybe brush him, and then speeding back up away from him.
I think these are the technique known as the "ghost screen" which are all over the league now. The idea is usually to cause confusion between the defenders as to whether to get into their PnR coverage or not.
 

The Mort Report

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On the assumption he is back, what do we want to see out of Jaylen?

Personally, I would like to see Jaylen develop a post game. His mid range game is lethal, so he should be able to develop this easily. It should help to accentuate his strength, athleticism, and mid range shooting, while making his decision making easier, and less ball handling issues from trying to penetrate against a set defense which seem to be his 2 biggest weaknesses.

The other piece that I think would be helpful is if he could develop a bit of Ray Allen’s ability to shoot off a series of off ball screens. Ray was elite, but Jaylen is athletic and a good enough shooter that he could do this at a decent level. The other benefit (maybe even the primary one) is the movement and attention the defense has to pay to him doing that which means fewer eyes on JT, making him even more dangerous
You’re asking JB to change the way he plays the game. If he’s staying, the team better tell him the only basketball-centric stuff he should be doing this offseason is working on his handle. An extra basket or two in the post doesn’t make up for his 2.9 turnover average where usually at least 2 lead to fast breaks the other way
 
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Myt1

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I think these are the technique known as the "ghost screen" which are all over the league now. The idea is usually to cause confusion between the defenders as to whether to get into their PnR coverage or not.
Seems to have confused the shit out of Brown. :(

I’ll say this: he tried his fucking ass off last night. When the rest of the team was settling for bricking threes early instead of working for something better, he was flying driving to the hoop. Couldn’t finish worth a damn when he had a half step to a step on his defender (he was flying over the baseline and a number of layups lipped out because he was a bit out of control). But he was really fucking bringing it with courage and incredible athleticism. I think missing those shots got to him, though. And then we started seeing a bunch of fucking scud launches early in the shot clock.
 

chilidawg

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But of course that's it. Beating a zone isn't rocket science, it just requires commitment. And this team clearly has immense trouble commiting to anything.
Did Miami play zone against Milwaukee and the Knicks? How did it work? Is it possible they're just really good at it?

All this talk about the C's failures, but I think we're selling short the Heat. They made shots and defended their asses off.
 

slamminsammya

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The zone looked good purely because we shot like doo doo from 3 all series. They got great looks against it I thought and the one game where they actually shot decently they put up 1.4 points per possession against the zone.
 

BringBackMo

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So I wanted to take some time before commenting on this, I also listened to Lowe's podcast as one of the things featured in the description was "the future of Jaylen Brown".

He brought up the key thing (as did several cap people earlier like Bobby Marks and Keith Smith)... this new CBA is built to try and discourage two supermax guys long term, so you have to be sure when you offer Jaylen the full 295. Marks has suggested they do the Gobert path, of offerring more than other teams but not the full 35% and full raises. I think that is the path forward. Lowe mentioned today he has the impression there isn't much room for negotiation with Brown though and anything less than 295M will not go over well.

He also brought up a key point on-court fit related... Tatum is an pretty good but not great playmaker, Jaylen being your 2nd guy.... is not a good playmaker, noting he was around neutral A/T for his career, negative in the playoffs.

This prompted me to check how he looks against other high usage players...

Of the 33 players with a usage of 27% or higher this season Jaylen ranks.... last in A/TO ratio. The guys who are withing 20% higher than him are: Embiid, Davis, Kuzma, Porzingis, Banchero, Edwards, Johnson (Keldon) and Green (Jalen).

I think just on talent, you should be offerring Jaylen an extension, but not the full $295M. I felt otherwise before hearing more experts talking about how they think the new CBA has real teeth. Jaylen is a talent, but his recurring flaws are both real, and not the ideal fit with Tatum. A player who isn't as good, but a better fit and not making the supermax probably makes you a better team long term.
This is a very good post. But even if the C’s agree with the line of thinking in it—and given the trade chatter during parts of the past couple years, perhaps they do—the real question is what do they do if Tatum doesn’t?
 

lars10

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That’s good to know because it was driving me crazy.
I don’t think Smart is particularly interested in setting screens generally. Quite often he’s looking to roll before he’s even set the screen.. it’s my main problem with Smart.. he works hardest to get his own shot and doesn’t put in the same amount of work to help the J’s get open shots.
 

Eddie Jurak

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All the discussion around how Jaylen Brown's game doesn't pair well with Tatum, I don't quite get it. Yes, they are both wings - but JB is a 2/3 and JT is a 3/4, they fit fine on the court together. Would it be ideal if the second best player on the Celtics was a big or a PG, sure - but most PGs (who are All-NBA level) are extremely ball dominant, and that wouldn't fit well with Tatum, I think. Elite bigs very often have issues with clogging the paint, which also doesn't seem to fit great with Tatum. Would it be better if JB was a better shooter - of course? But, their games do seem quite complementary to me. Brown is more transition, Tatum is more half-court.
I used to think this but 2 straight playoff runs where this didn't work have me reconsidering. I mean, at some level it works because being on the court with Jayson Tatum opens up a lot of opportunities for Brown. But I don't think that equation runs in reverse to nearly the same extent.

I don't think Jaylen has accepted his status as a second star player whose limitatyions mean he needs to function within a role - especially in the playoffs. We saw in game 7 that he can't be Jayson Tatum, but in his mind I would guess that he thinks he can and wants to be.
 

8slim

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Did Miami play zone against Milwaukee and the Knicks? How did it work? Is it possible they're just really good at it?

All this talk about the C's failures, but I think we're selling short the Heat. They made shots and defended their asses off.
I’ve been crediting Miami for 2 weeks. But I’ve also watched zone defense for more than 30 years. It’s solvable with patience and execution.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Are there sites that break down 3pt. shots by type? I feel like Jaylen trying to be a guy that hits pull-up threes has met with poor results. 38% > 39% > 35% > 33%. Again this speaks to BBIQ on some level. He's moved away from what has been successful to shoot shots that are great highlight reel material.

Is there a basketball's Tom Emanksy dribbling guru that Jaylen can drill with? If Jaylen were coached by Bill Belichick he'd be forced to dribble a ball everywhere he goes like Stevan Ridley having to walk around holding a football due to his fumblitis.
 

Myt1

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I think these are the technique known as the "ghost screen" which are all over the league now. The idea is usually to cause confusion between the defenders as to whether to get into their PnR coverage or not.
Just want to note that I really appreciated this nugget of insight and didn’t mean to diminish it with my joking response. I watch pretty much no sports live anymore, and the only thing I bother to DVR is hockey. So, the added context is helpful.
 

ManicCompression

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It's not just the handle. The handle sucks of course, but his decision making is probably the bigger issue when he has the ball. He doesn't see the floor well when he drives, which makes him one-dimensional - teams know he's looking to raise up for a jumper on a drive or bully his way to the hoop. There's low risk to gambling on D against him because he's probably not going to make you pay with a pass to an open teammate.

This is simply feel for the game type stuff, and he doesn't really have it. A summer of working on his handle won't fix the problem, and frankly at his age the likelihood of significant improvements in any skill area is pretty low.

He's an amazing development story, and it's incredible he's made himself into a second team All-NBA player, but the limitations are the limitations at this point.
 

tims4wins

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It's not just the handle. The handle sucks of course, but his decision making is probably the bigger issue when he has the ball. He doesn't see the floor well when he drives, which makes him one-dimensional - teams know he's looking to raise up for a jumper on a drive or bully his way to the hoop. There's low risk to gambling on D against him because he's probably not going to make you pay with a pass to an open teammate.

This is simply feel for the game type stuff, and he doesn't really have it. A summer of working on his handle won't fix the problem, and frankly at his age the likelihood of significant improvements in any skill area is pretty low.

He's an amazing development story, and it's incredible he's made himself into a second team All-NBA player, but the limitations are the limitations at this point.
This, exactly.
 

BaseballJones

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I used to think this but 2 straight playoff runs where this didn't work have me reconsidering. I mean, at some level it works because being on the court with Jayson Tatum opens up a lot of opportunities for Brown. But I don't think that equation runs in reverse to nearly the same extent.

I don't think Jaylen has accepted his status as a second star player whose limitatyions mean he needs to function within a role - especially in the playoffs. We saw in game 7 that he can't be Jayson Tatum, but in his mind I would guess that he thinks he can and wants to be.
The thing is… in game 7 the Celtics needed him to be THE MAN, due to Tatum’s injury. And Brown proceeded to absolutely throw up all over himself. (Not for a lack of effort though…he did try hard)
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I don’t think Smart is particularly interested in setting screens generally. Quite often he’s looking to roll before he’s even set the screen.. it’s my main problem with Smart.. he works hardest to get his own shot and doesn’t put in the same amount of work to help the J’s get open shots.
It isn't just him though - it is throughout the team. I was so frustrated watching every player on the team stand there for the screen then run away before the contact even came, while Miami's screens got actual open shots. We know Al at least can screen, he just didn't. it must have been part of Joe's offensive plan. And I hate it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Are there sites that break down 3pt. shots by type? I feel like Jaylen trying to be a guy that hits pull-up threes has met with poor results. 38% > 39% > 35% > 33%. Again this speaks to BBIQ on some level. He's moved away from what has been successful to shoot shots that are great highlight reel material.

Is there a basketball's Tom Emanksy dribbling guru that Jaylen can drill with? If Jaylen were coached by Bill Belichick he'd be forced to dribble a ball everywhere he goes like Stevan Ridley having to walk around holding a football due to his fumblitis.
stats.nba.com
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It isn't just him though - it is throughout the team. I was so frustrated watching every player on the team stand there for the screen then run away before the contact even came, while Miami's screens got actual open shots. We know Al at least can screen, he just didn't. it must have been part of Joe's offensive plan. And I hate it.
The Celtics were 16th this season as a team in screen assists at 8.7/game this season and were 18th the season prior under Udoka at 8.4/game.

My guess is that they have determined that this is optimal for the what they are trying to run. That doesn't mean its optimal for scoring and winning but if teams keep producing the same outputs it feels like its by design.

Incidentally, aside from Tatum and Grant who play big, Smart had the most screen assists of any non-bigs on the team this year and has been their non big screen assist leader over the past few seasons at ~ just under one per game. Maybe he isn't willing to do it more but the consistency of results suggests that its by design or a function of capability and across multiple coaching regimes.
 

benhogan

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I've always been a big Jaylen fan, but man that last series was brutal. Celtics Blog does a good job outlining the case (mostly financial) for trading him, with some decent sounding possible trades. Bridges would be an excellent replacement.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/5/31/23742760/the-case-for-trading-jaylen-brown-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-brad-stevens-joe-mazzulla-marcus-smart
good article

Trades built around Mikal Bridges or Desmond Bane would soften the blow.

If Jaylen stays, the team must knock off Point Brown initiating from the Top in the halfcourt. Maybe somebody can Houdini some numbers to say it works, but the team has perfectly acceptable PGs to do that job.
 

Toe Nash

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I've always been a big Jaylen fan, but man that last series was brutal. Celtics Blog does a good job outlining the case (mostly financial) for trading him, with some decent sounding possible trades. Bridges would be an excellent replacement.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/5/31/23742760/the-case-for-trading-jaylen-brown-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-brad-stevens-joe-mazzulla-marcus-smart
It is really hard to argue with this. I have no idea if the trades listed are at all realistic (Bridges and Claxton for Jaylen and a low 1st rounder seems like a steal to me) but wild things happen in the NBA every year and if the contracts work then maybe someone will think Jaylen can grow as the #1 on their team (and if he does, more power to him).
 

Auger34

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Isn’t one of the basic tenets of that article completely wrong?

“(2) trading Jaylen is in part a means to control the salary bill and trading him at his current salary number means you match salary at that value (roughly between $28 and $32 million depending on what league year he’s traded in). Waiting until he’s paid the supermax defeats a lot of the reason for trading him. Simply put, if trading Jaylen is in the cards, this offseason is the only time that it makes sense.”

I am no cap guy but I've read multiple people who are (Bernardoni, Sam Vecenie, Windhorst isnt a cap guy but he's told about the machinations) and all of them have indicated that the best time to trade Jaylen would be after this year (or 2 years from now) after he's locked into the Super Max.

The Brooklyn idea is definitely interesting. They seem to be the best fit for a Jaylen trade. Claxton makes Rob a true luxury player and not a guy that has to play.

The Atlanta trade idea in that article is fucking awful (Dejounte Murray and Bogdan Bodganovic). If Brad makes that trade, I think we need to start an investigation for the real Brad Stevens because the one making decisions is an imposter.

The Memphis one is also interesting but I like it a lot less than the Brooklyn one. I like Bridges more than Bane and I like Claxton more than Tillman/Kennard/Tyus
 

BigSoxFan

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Isn’t one of the basic tenets of that article completely wrong?

“(2) trading Jaylen is in part a means to control the salary bill and trading him at his current salary number means you match salary at that value (roughly between $28 and $32 million depending on what league year he’s traded in). Waiting until he’s paid the supermax defeats a lot of the reason for trading him. Simply put, if trading Jaylen is in the cards, this offseason is the only time that it makes sense.”

I am no cap guy but I've read multiple people who are (Bernardoni, Sam Vecenie, Windhorst isnt a cap guy but he's told about the machinations) and all of them have indicated that the best time to trade Jaylen would be after this year (or 2 years from now) after he's locked into the Super Max.

The Brooklyn idea is definitely interesting. They seem to be the best fit for a Jaylen trade. Claxton makes Rob a true luxury player and not a guy that has to play.

The Atlanta trade idea in that article is fucking awful (Dejounte Murray and Bogdan Bodganovic). If Brad makes that trade, I think we need to start an investigation for the real Brad Stevens because the one making decisions is an imposter.

The Memphis one is also interesting but I like it a lot less than the Brooklyn one. I like Bridges more than Bane and I like Claxton more than Tillman/Kennard/Tyus
Am I the only one who thinks the Nets laugh at a Brown for Bridges/Clayton offer? Bridges doesn’t have the shine of All-NBA but he leveled up to all-star level in Brooklyn. And Clayton is a legit big. Zero chance I do that deal, if I were them.
 

Auger34

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Am I the only one who thinks the Nets laugh at a Brown for Bridges/Clayton offer? Bridges doesn’t have the shine of All-NBA but he leveled up to all-star level in Brooklyn. And Clayton is a legit big. Zero chance I do that deal, if I were them.
I really don't know. There were a lot of rumors of Brooklyn putting together a gigantic package for Damian Lillard (including Bridges and multiple 1st round picks).

If I am Brooklyn, I would much prefer Jaylen to Lillard (Brooklyn isn't close to winning a title). They may think it's easier to attract other star talent with Brown in place, like maybe Donovan Mitchell?

What I do know is that its going to have to be an offer like Bridges+ in order for the Celtics to trade Brown. The team isn't going to knowingly take a meaningful step backwards when most of the team is in their prime. It signals to your star that you aren't a truly serious organization and...it's also just kind of stupid to move backwards when you are close to a championship.

You have to imagine that Boston is looking for a Top 40 player in his prime (23-29) who is a culture fit (sorry that eliminates you Dejounte) and additional pieces to help improve the team
 

Jimbodandy

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All the discussion around how Jaylen Brown's game doesn't pair well with Tatum, I don't quite get it. Yes, they are both wings - but JB is a 2/3 and JT is a 3/4, they fit fine on the court together. Would it be ideal if the second best player on the Celtics was a big or a PG, sure - but most PGs (who are All-NBA level) are extremely ball dominant, and that wouldn't fit well with Tatum, I think. Elite bigs very often have issues with clogging the paint, which also doesn't seem to fit great with Tatum. Would it be better if JB was a better shooter - of course? But, their games do seem quite complementary to me. Brown is more transition, Tatum is more half-court.
Yeah it was and is nonsense. Guys like Tatum basically fit with anyone except someone who is ball-dominant to a fault like Doncic, Lillard, younger Harden. Jaylen is a secondary scorer, and every team loves having guys like that. They work fine together.

I actually don't think it's a JT/JB fit issue as much as it's just that Jaylen likely isn't going to "fit" that well with anyone.

He is really good at what he does well, but he is mostly an individual player who doesn't see the floor well on offense, is turnover prone, and doesn't anticipate well on defense.

He's a very good player but a clear 2nd banana scoring wing rather than a JT who is a much better all around 1A type player. Jaylen can certainly be a valuable piece on a title team but it's going to be by brute force rather than finding a perfect chemistry fit with someone else.
Last year the nonsense vibe was that Tatum choked in the finals because he had a bad series. Now Jaylen is a problem because he had one bad series. Against Philly, he was .645 TS% 17.3 Ast% 13.9% Tov% 23/5/4. Against Atlanta, he was .611 TS 12/14 27/5/3.

I get that it's the last thing that we saw, but the recency bias is doing a lot of work here.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Isn’t one of the basic tenets of that article completely wrong?

“(2) trading Jaylen is in part a means to control the salary bill and trading him at his current salary number means you match salary at that value (roughly between $28 and $32 million depending on what league year he’s traded in). Waiting until he’s paid the supermax defeats a lot of the reason for trading him. Simply put, if trading Jaylen is in the cards, this offseason is the only time that it makes sense.”

I am no cap guy but I've read multiple people who are (Bernardoni, Sam Vecenie, Windhorst isnt a cap guy but he's told about the machinations) and all of them have indicated that the best time to trade Jaylen would be after this year (or 2 years from now) after he's locked into the Super Max.

The Brooklyn idea is definitely interesting. They seem to be the best fit for a Jaylen trade. Claxton makes Rob a true luxury player and not a guy that has to play.

The Atlanta trade idea in that article is fucking awful (Dejounte Murray and Bogdan Bodganovic). If Brad makes that trade, I think we need to start an investigation for the real Brad Stevens because the one making decisions is an imposter.

The Memphis one is also interesting but I like it a lot less than the Brooklyn one. I like Bridges more than Bane and I like Claxton more than Tillman/Kennard/Tyus
The argument for trading now if it's just salary would be that you want to lock in a cheap player long term. The argument for trading him post extension is that you can get more back because the team getting him knows he's locked in for 5 years. Two different goals.

Now there is also an argument that you give him the extension, then trade him for a return that includes some expiring and you basically go up into the 2nd apron for one year before letting a guy walk and dipping back under.

I agree though, the reason to trade him this off-season is if he won't extend (or I guess if there is secret lockerroom stuff, but I doubt it). If he'll extend I think you do it (though I'd probably be a little worried about going full supermax) then wait a year and if next year is the same you trade him. Only argument against that is I guess the guy you want is only available now, or you're pretty sure you're wasting a year of window, or you think a trade increases the likelihood Tatum signs his own extension next year.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
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Apr 23, 2010
11,063
The argument for trading now if it's just salary would be that you want to lock in a cheap player long term. The argument for trading him post extension is that you can get more back because the team getting him knows he's locked in for 5 years. Two different goals.

Now there is also an argument that you give him the extension, then trade him for a return that includes some expiring and you basically go up into the 2nd apron for one year before letting a guy walk and dipping back under.

I agree though, the reason to trade him this off-season is if he won't extend (or I guess if there is secret lockerroom stuff, but I doubt it). If he'll extend I think you do it (though I'd probably be a little worried about going full supermax) then wait a year and if next year is the same you trade him. Only argument against that is I guess the guy you want is only available now, or you're pretty sure you're wasting a year of window, or you think a trade increases the likelihood Tatum signs his own extension next year.
Maybe Tatum and Brown aren't BFFs but I think we can confidently say that Tatum isn't telling anyone he's not signing an extension unless Jaylen is moved.

And I think the goal is to get as much back as possible unless there are tremendous mitigating circumstances (which doesn't seem to be the case here). And I think wasting a year of your window is much more likely if your main goal in trading Jaylen is getting a cheap player long term
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Maybe Tatum and Brown aren't BFFs but I think we can confidently say that Tatum isn't telling anyone he's not signing an extension unless Jaylen is moved.

And I think the goal is to get as much back as possible unless there are tremendous mitigating circumstances (which doesn't seem to be the case here). And I think wasting a year of your window is much more likely if your main goal in trading Jaylen is getting a cheap player long term
I meant that in the sense of what you get back is someone Tatum really wants to play with, not "Tatum wants Jaylen gone"