Right there with you. Getting taken out by Curry, Giannis, Durant, Butler, etc. sucks but you can live with that. Great players doing what they do. When a role player like Martin destroys you for 7 full games that's, well, tough to take. It'd be like a #8-9 hitter in baseball hitting batting .440 with 5 home runs or something against the Sox in a playoff series. I would be absolutely sick right now if I were the Jay's.
not surprising at all. Most likely outcome has always been they will offer him some type of extension above 30%, maybe even the full 35%. And most likely situation on his side has always been he'll negotiate trying to get to 35%, but that whether he gets there or is in the 32-33% range signing it makes the most sense for him, even if it means waiting a year then demanding a trade. Leaving a bunch of money on the table to go somewhere else doesn't really make sense when you're on a contender.
It would be funny if it didn't hurt so much, but I can totally see myself saying "The Celtics need to shut down Bam and Butler and if Caleb Martin ends up beating you, well tip your cap to him".
I disagree. First of all what it mostly takes to run is stops. Then It takes time and persistence to run. You make the other team get back they will make mistakes. YOu can always the pull the ball back out and stand around a jack a 3, which what was happening anyway. They took one of their best guys, JB and put him in bad spots.
What makes this so frustrating is that the Celtics are usually a good transition team.. when they run. But they often don't. I still have nightmares about how terrible the Antoine Walker Celtics teams were in transition - this team is nothing like that one.
It's a thought, but seems to me so much of his value is tied to his driving ability. Such a different player than Klay.
I fully agree that "better driving, worse shooting Klay" is his best path to being worth a supermax. (I may have been among the first to make the Klay comparison, earlier in this thread, so I'm totally on-board with you.)
Aside from his clear lack of handle, Jaylen just seems like a guy who plays worse when he’s “thinking”. The stuff he is best at like transition scoring, shooting, on-the-ball defense are more instinct-oriented.
Paying a player incapable of playing thinking basketball $50 million a year is probably not a good idea. JB needs to be accountable for his mental weaknesses on the court, and do something about it. After seven years of big stage basketball, he probably is never going to “get it,” unfortunately. That’s going to be a problem. can a coach bench a player making a third of a team’s salary cap for the next half decade? No, he can’t. Your max guy or guys are your franchise, virtually partners with your coach, and not subordinates.
You just didn't watch the steady stream of games where he carried the team.
I have watched at least 98% of the games JB has played for the Celtics over his career, and every playoff game. Making the same critical mistakes over and over again in big playoff moments is why I wrote that JB doesn’t get it. Brown has played his entire career with high leverage playoff minutes, and continues to make idiotic turnovers in key moments. Defensively, he is prone to mental errors in big spots, like leaving Harden in the corner to unnecessarily doubleteam a player inside the arc with a two point lead.
Have you forgotten that JB was probably the best and most consistent Celtic in last year's Finals?
I don’t know but I think it would be a smart adjustment to let White/Smart/Brogdon bring up the ball a good 90% of the time. The 3 of them are actual guards and seem to be much better at getting people where they need to be and doing what needs to be done than both the Jays (Brown more so than Tatum)
I just want what’s best for the team. Jaylen is a killer off ball, capitalize on that more often.
Agreed.
I agree, while I love what the ball in Tatum’s hands at the top does to other teams defenses, he will always be the most dangerous getting the the ball in better position.
I always thought that JB could be a decent creator for others, but he just hasn’t shown much growth in that area. It might be in large part because of his role as a scorer, but for his last three years as an established star, he’s given us an assist every ten minutes of playing time, and a turnover every nine. He really hasn’t progressed much as a passer since his first year as a starter, and it’s not logical to think he’s going to become a great passer in year eight.
Coaching.
Yes. Smart, who shot 36% from three in the playoffs and 36% from three against the Heat was the problem. It wasn’t that Tatum shot 23% against the Heat, Brogdon shot 17%, Brown shot 16%, and Horford shot 28%. Nope, it was one of three guys who actually made his threes (along with White and Grant) who broke the offense.
This is letting a certain Al Horford off the hook who would get the ball top of the key and repeatedly not even look at the hoop. The heat were begging him to try to score down low.
Agree with all of that. I'd add the regular season has become a glorified pre-season in some ways.
Sure, Martin caught fire in the biggest game of the year but why do Celtics fans call that a "fluke" coming from a guy shooting 38% threes during his two years in Miami....yet scream for more Derrick White playing time when he goes off despite him being a 35% shooter of threes during this same time span?
I wasnt just talking about one game or the 3 point shooting, here's the post in it's entirety for reference - http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/the-celtics-offseason.39525/post-5589042 I dont think it's so much a fluke as it is getting hot at the right time. To many, those two things might be the same, but for me they are distant relatives.
This is good.
Martin did indeed get hot at the right time. But regarding the comparative 3-pt FG% of White and Martin, White was actually better in 2022-23: 38.1% in 4.8 attempts per game vs 35.6% in 3.3. And they both were close in overall minutes per game (with White appearing in more games).
I don't get your season-long pushback on White's improvement from 3 even though he claimed to work on it all last Summer with Ben Sullivan. DW had by far his best 3pt shooting season (38%) and eFG%. Heck, he took it up significantly in 20 playoff games by shooting 45.5% from 3.
I realize I kind of talked about that Heat series in that post, but really, I was trying to make the point and respond to the entire season on the whole.
Caleb Martin getting hot from 3 bothered me way less than Caleb Martin hitting mid range jumpers like Durant, and finishing around the rim like Jordan bothered me.
This seems to me to be what more time working on the system would do. Over the last couple seasons they have worked on whoever has the ball making a decision in max half second decision to drive pass or shoot - they need to do the same thing with the guys without the ball. It takes crazy amounts of skill and practice though, cause those guys without the ball are supposed to be in locations that the guys with the ball can make those split second decisions as needed. Getting better on the cuts seems like the next stage.
No, that guy is an idiot. So many of his screaming rants resulted in wide open looks from three for Boston.
He has been a decent shooter on low volume. Martin made 3 plus 3 pointers 14 times this year. 5 of those were in the series against the Celtics. Martin had the series of his life. There are players littered through post seasons in various sports who caught fire and turned a playoff series and led their team to victory. It happens and it sucks that it happened to the Celtics. Anyone who says they saw it coming is delusional or lying.
That completely misses the point on breaking the zone. That wide open 3 is going to be there even if one of the corner guys cuts the baseline. The other wing just relocates into that spot.
Agreed that nobody saw this level of play in the playoffs coming but those referring to Martin as a "scrub" who is just lucky or cite his draft status as if it means anything now aren't looking at his production rates over the past few years.
Maybe, for a half, or maybe one game? They finished the series at .76 points per possession against the zone. See below. Now, one might ask "why don't more teams employ zones?"
It was "low volume" bc Herro was in the lineup and Martin's minutes were limited.
Not germane to Jaylen Brown, but if your 12yo is laughing at Derrick White's low 2K rating, you're doing something right.I don't get your season-long pushback on White's improvement from 3 even though he claimed to work on it all last Summer with Ben Sullivan. DW had by far his best 3pt shooting season (38%) and eFG%. Heck, he took it up significantly in 20 playoff games by shooting 45.5% from 3.
Derrick has been a career 86% FT shooter, so 3pt improvement from 35% shouldn't be a complete shocker.
This should align with your "Easiest Skill to Learn" theory.
"Variance"? I think not
As far as Derrick White playing more minutes, I'm not sure how anybody can watch a Celtic game this season (he played in all of them) and immediately not recognize his positive impact. It's so blatantly obvious that my 12yr old laughs at his NBA2K rating of 80.
If DW's 2500 minutes (or 10,000 career minutes) of +/- or On/Off doesn't do it for you feel free to go to DRtg or ORtg, Win Share, VORP, BPM, DARKO, CARMELO, LEBRON, RAPTOR, EPM, DPM. You can check on his Advanced %, Asst, TO, Blk over this year or his career.
Casual fans and NBA2K love themselves some POINTZ and pretty much ignore defense. Derrick White confuses them.
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2023/04/27/derrick-white-third-boston-celtics/
I can't watch more than half of that video because that dude has no idea what he is talking about. I can't believe you think he is spot on. He isn't.
