Justin Turner declines option (11.03.23 update)
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Justin Turner is my 11 year old daughters favorite player. We took her to see him at MGM in Springfield last week to get an autographed photo and baseball. He and his wife were really awesome! She loves him more now than before, LOL. I hope he decides to stay on for another season.
If we’re going over the cap anyway, the team should top that up a bit if he does. Looks good to future veterans we might want to acquire.
I'd be more than OK with Turner coming back on a reasonable deal. Raffy isn't moving off third base this winter, Casas is still young enough to improve at first, and maybe I'm overly optimistic but I believe Yoshida will improve both defensively and offensively after getting that NPB-to-MLB transition year under his belt. Justin Turner is the type of high-character veteran that a team on the way back up can really use, and he's the kind of good guy who is fun to root for as a fan. Make it happen, Craig.
My feeling is that adding whatever it takes so that Turner's two year take ('23-'24) is in the neighborhood of $30-32M total would be more than equitable. Whether that's set up as him opting out of his current deal (buyout + 2023 salary = $15M) and giving him a new one year deal worth $15-17M, or him opting in (2/$22M) and making up the $8-10M difference in some other way (bonus?).
Yeah, and his WRC+ has declined over the last four years from 138 to 114. Good chance he bounces back from that, good chance he plateaus, and a good chance next year is the end. Who knows.
Our last 39 year old DH worked out pretty well (and actually outperformed his age 38 season).
Did you watch the HoF video posted in the “Stories this group could tell” thread? Pedroia was talking about Ortiz‘ slow start in 2009. Some, even on this board, thought he was toast. Anyway, great video with a healthy dose of Gentleman Tim Wakefield as well.
We should probably change this thread title, until we know what actually is happening with Turner.
“Candlepin Bowling for Dollars: the Justin Turner Thread”
“Candlepin Bowling for Dollars: the Justin Turner Thread”
Thanks for sharing. Relatedly, “glue guys” are really important in Boston. Someday I would love to hear Kevin Millar explain the role he and Ortiz played in spring training 2004 helping Manny go from being traded for Arod to the guy who was literally skipping and holding hands with Millar and Papi.
He declined his player option.
https://nesn.com/2023/11/justin-turner-passes-on-signing-2024-player-option-with-red-sox/amp/
https://nesn.com/2023/11/justin-turner-passes-on-signing-2024-player-option-with-red-sox/amp/
Well, shit. Once again, I am an idiot. Really thought he would stay on, and hope they find a way to make it work.
Those social media posts from this week definitely feel like someone who wants to stay, he just wants a better deal than the one he opted out of.
Yep and you really can't blame him. On a team that was sorely lacking one, he quickly looked the part of the veteran leader on the club. He seemed willing to assume any role that was asked of him, became a part of the community and had a fine season on a team that had season-long struggles.
His contract was written to ensure he would opt out after any reasonably successful 2023 season. His option was for $13.4 million but he gets a $6.7 million buyout after declining it. Thus he has to be paid only $6.7 million in 2024 to break even on the player option he declined. He’ll obviously make substantially more than that. This was strictly a dollars and cents move and was entirely expected. In no way should declining the Sox option be read as indicating that he doesn’t want to be here. If he enjoys playing for the Sox, and they want him back, there’s every reason to believe he’ll be resigned. No idea if that’s the case, and I personally don’t think he’s a great fit for our lineup construction given the need to frequently DH Yoshida and the emergence of Casas at first. But whatever the eventual outcome, his declining of the option doesn’t tell us much we didn’t already know.
EDIT: Missed JA‘s post making the same basic argument.
EDIT: Missed JA‘s post making the same basic argument.
Good post. I’m skeptical about a spike in Yoshida’s potential to measurably improve in left, and I think Casas is at the point where you just have to commit to him every day at first despite his substandard defense to this point in the majors. But you make a good point about JT’s veteran leadership on a club that appears to be yo-yoing back to full-throated win-now mode. Maybe you give him a two-year deal and if you do get those improvements from Yoshida and Casas he can slot comfortably at DH, and if you don’t, he’d most likely be a good trade chit.
I really like Justin Turner, but .221/..286/.295 over the last month of the season. Yes, he was coming off of an injury, but injuries are what happens to 39 year old guys. I'd rather see someone who can offer some speed and defense than further clog up DH on a defensively challenged team.
I don't want to bring Turner back, maybe I'm in the minority here. He posted his worst wrc+ since 2013, is going to be 39 years old, and can't really play the field much anymore, so he's a DH, a position where you would hope you can do better than a wrc+ of 114. If there's no better options, fine, but this team already has at least three guys between Casas, Devers, and Yoshida who I would rather not see playing the field. He's probably going to command 10 million or more again and I would just rather spend that money elsewhere if we can.
A best case scenario is bringin a right handed corner outfielder to plug between Devers and Casas.
That person does not exists in free agency so Breslow will have to be creative.
But overall I do agree. Love Turner. But Turner and Yoshida on the same roster is tough.
Money should be less a concern this year so it seems better to have Turner in the fold than not.
There are a few LF/DH combinations better than Yoshida and Turner, but not many. I like Teoscar/Yoshida, but a lot of teams will be in on him. I also like Eloy Jimenez, but I don’t know how available he is and would be fairly costly.
There are a few LF/DH combinations better than Yoshida and Turner, but not many. I like Teoscar/Yoshida, but a lot of teams will be in on him. I also like Eloy Jimenez, but I don’t know how available he is and would be fairly costly.
Good Guy absolutely but old and best spot is DH. The leadership was great last year but was also great the year before with Xander…. Last place with great leaders is still last place.
If Turner isn't on the roster, you need to find a decent backup at first and third. Urias can do third, but not if he's starting at second. There isn't anyone else on the team who can back up first. Dalbec can't make enough contact to be that guy. So an acquisition will have to be made in any case to fill that spot.
Hoskins is a good fit too (with Reyes backing up 3B), but I figure someone would value him more as a full-time first baseman.
Old SoSH crushes C.J. Cron and Trey Mancini would help if their careers weren’t done.
I think they'll wait on Turner. If he's still unsigned come Jan/Feb, maybe they offer him 1 year, $10M. I think he can still play 3B and 1B. 2B was a stretch even last season. Let's not forget Refsnyder has played 1B in the past. If he was given a winter to work on it, I'm sure he'd be passable.
Dalbec plays a better 2B than Turner and a better 1B than Refsnyder and he’s paid peanuts. (And can obviously play 3B)
So strikes out too much big deal. Not any worse than a pop up and better than a GIDP
So strikes out too much big deal. Not any worse than a pop up and better than a GIDP
Dalbec has literally played 19 outs in his career at 2b and made 2 put outs, must have been a really fucking good 2 put outs
Spring training in 2022 or 2023 I saw him at 2B and he was good
also was good enough to play there during game 6 of 2021 alcs
Oh well if you saw him play there in spring training then he must be good. Especially since he didn't even play a single inning there in his nearly full season of playing games where winning and losing mean nothing.
That's ignoring that you seem to take for a given that he can hit, which is a pretty useful skill for a guy for a guy who provides negative value at every defensive position he may or may not actually be able to play.
1/2 inning in an elimination game because they had no one who could play there because of desperate pinch hitting? Yes that means less than nothing in an argument that a guy can play a position
I've commented a bit here on Turner and I'm very much on the fence as to him coming back. He is a RH hitting option which the club needs and while he may not be the best defender going into his age 39 season, he doesn't seem to be a defensive downgrade at the corners. Admittedly that's not setting the bar incredibly high but if they can find ABs for him in perhaps 110 games rotating between DH, 1B and 3B and have him available in the other games as a RH PH off the bench it might not be the worst use of money depending on if that's a role he's willing to accept and what the $$$ looks like. If they move on from Turner I'm more than OK, but if they can agree on a new deal that works for both sides I won't hate it.
We don't have to argue Dalbec at 2B. IF he makes the team, then he'd be like the 4th or 5th option at 2B.
From an offseason primer that Bob Nightengale/USA Today published Sunday:
The Arizona Diamondbacks, who desperately want a third baseman, plan to pursue free agent Justin Turner, who exercised his opt out with the Boston Red Sox. He is atop their wish list.
The Arizona Diamondbacks, who desperately want a third baseman, plan to pursue free agent Justin Turner, who exercised his opt out with the Boston Red Sox. He is atop their wish list.
Love Turner, and he was a silver lining in an otherwise shitty year, but he's redundant on this roster. This team needs a power-hitting right-handed corner outfielder so that they can move Yoshida to DH. Turner is almost 40, and he's very likely to continue to decline. If teams like the D-Backs are sniffing around, he's probably not cost-prohibitive for us anyway. Although he is a great fit in AZ.
I genuinely don't mean to single you out here, but...
It's amazing to me how many people write literally the opposite of what they want to say because they don't proofread their posts. Presumably you mean he is 'cost-prohibitive' here?
Do we need Turner? I think you are going to want to open up DH for Trevor Story/Yoshida rotating with some games for Casas, Duran, and Devers.
Edit - That or Lord Ohtani.
Edit - That or Lord Ohtani.
You need a backup corner infielder and a RHB. It doesn't have to be Turner, but he's already filled that role really well and seemed like he brought a lot to the team overall.
If they decide Candelario fits better, he's an attractive option. But what I don't see is a good way of making Yoshida the primary DH while filling LF and also finding a backup 1B/3B to mostly ride the bench.
Not sure why we're wanting to DH Story either, he's an elite defender and we need him out there every possible inning.
If they decide Candelario fits better, he's an attractive option. But what I don't see is a good way of making Yoshida the primary DH while filling LF and also finding a backup 1B/3B to mostly ride the bench.
Not sure why we're wanting to DH Story either, he's an elite defender and we need him out there every possible inning.
You have Luis Urias who is perfectly capable of filling that role and has an additional option if you need roster flexibility.
Edit - Because I don't think Trevor Story can play 150 games out in the field anymore (really ever but not worth quibbling about). It is more a matter of health and load management than he can't field.
Candelario is 29 and has put up a 112 OPS+ the last 4 years while playing full time. I don't think he'll sign on anywhere that he'll be a backup.