via Nick Underhill, former Pats beat guy, and Russ Dellenger, LSU beat reporter
https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/status/595675151951405056
La'el Collins to Dallas
- Thread starter Corsi
- Start date
Make it happen Bill. Pats can offer the ability to collect game checks in the playoffs something Buffalo and Miami have rarely shown over the years.
Dale & Holley are discussing Collins. Dale went on and on about how a (cleared) Collins having gone undrafted would now have to be content with signing a meager FA contract without a signing bonus, etc.
Other than NFL collusion, is there a reason why this wouldn't turn into a serious bidding war amongst a multitude of teams, a la a Cuban baseball player? Collins could still make out very well here financially, yes?
Other than NFL collusion, is there a reason why this wouldn't turn into a serious bidding war amongst a multitude of teams, a la a Cuban baseball player? Collins could still make out very well here financially, yes?
Harry Hooper said:
No, he would be restricted by UDFA rookie allotments. Max $8K signing bonus and minimum 2 years under the rookie minimum pay scale, I believe.
There's a certain figure that a UDFA can sign for. I believe each team has a budget of around $86,000 and can be used on any amount of players. If he makes the team, then he gets the vet minimum. The advantage of signing with a good team is playoff game checks.Harry Hooper said:
Harry Hooper said:
http://overthecap.com/what-can-lael-collins-earn-as-an-undrafted-free-agent/
Looks like he may be able to get 3 years 1.6 million total.
jsinger121 said:
Thanks. Any other restrictions? How about his agent insists on, maybe, a two or three-year guaranteed contract for close to first-round money?
Edit: OK, so potential lawsuit here challenging the UDFA terms of CBA?
Harry Hooper said:
He can't get first round money as he was an undrafted free agent. He get the minimum plus whatever he can get out for the bonus.
Harry Hooper said:
Read the article NPJ posted. UDFA are restricted to signing a 3 year deal at rookie mins, with their share of the $86K bonus pool. He would be able to renegotiate after two seasons. He can't make up the money he's lost.
That would have been the best thing for him (given the situation). He could have refused to sign and entered next year's draft. Because he was undrafted all he can do is sign a UDFA deal which severely limits his earnings.E5 Yaz said:
Harry Hooper said:
No.....he cannot be drafted again. As Michael Felger would say he is a street free agent now.
jsinger121 said:
If I am reading that article right, isn't the fact that he's a rookie UDFA what is boxing him in? If he were a true street FA, he'd have an opportunity to earn more $$$. Is there any way (CFL?) to shed "rookie UDFA" status?
Collins has said in the past that he prefers to play LT in the pros. Given his current situation, it also makes a lot of sense for him to go to a team where is pretty much assured of starting next year, so that he can begin establishing his value for his next contract as soon as possible.
The Patriots really can't offer him any of that. He's unlikely to play tackle and its not 100% clear that he'd start for us in 2015. I'm happy that we're kicking the tires (assuming he's innocent) but I'd be very surprised if he picks us given that every team will want him and there will be better situations out there.
The Patriots really can't offer him any of that. He's unlikely to play tackle and its not 100% clear that he'd start for us in 2015. I'm happy that we're kicking the tires (assuming he's innocent) but I'd be very surprised if he picks us given that every team will want him and there will be better situations out there.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Pats can offer him the opportunity to start at LG with the possibly of moving to LT if they get rid of Nate Solder.
jsinger121 said:
Sure, we can offer him the opportunity to compete with Jackson, Mason, and whoever else to start at LG. But that's a lot less appealing than what other teams will be willing and able to offer.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Jackson and Mason have never played on the left side. I see Jackson starting at RG anyways if they signed Collins.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
He applied too late according to the rules. And Goodell is not about to stick his neck out right now for a guy who just might have real issues.
Could you have an understanding with the agent that Collins would sign for 3 years for 1.6 million total, and then after the first game give him an extension for year 4 at 4 million plus a 15 million dollar signing bonus? I believe that would spread out of the 4 year of the contract, and would basically give him 1st round money.NortheasternPJ said:
jsinger121 said:
Fine, they can play Wendell at LG and Jackson at RG.
The bottom line is that we don't have a great situation to offer him compared to other teams, many of whom don't have two nailed on starters at the tackles and didn't just spend two 4th round draft picks on guards. I'm not sure how this is really even debatable.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
So, what you're saying is that we have enough pitching?
All this is predicted on him being cleared, but the legal issue hadn't emerged, he would have been a first round pick. They can sell him on the idea that all he has to do is beat out a pair of fourth-rounders. And that's before even saying that they (or Collins, for that matter) can produce or don't get injured.
If he's cleared, he's a prime college talent from this season in a once-in-a-lifetime situation. Of course you kick the tires.
E5 Yaz said:
Right, of course you kick the tires. That's what I said from the beginning.
Just don't get your hopes up about him picking us over 31 other teams.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Well, at least the possibility of the Pats landing him will drive the likes of Harbaugh batty.
Read the article linked. He can't renegotiate until after his second season. There are no loopholes here. It is what it is. The kid lost out on a lot of money, possibly through no fault of his own.lostjumper said:
E5 Yaz said:
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work this way. If he's drafted, he can refuse to reach a contract agreement and re-enter the draft. If he's cleared, he's almost certainly going to be a top round talent, and so won't want to be slotted at the very low money he'd be offered.
Of course, if he's not drafted, he's stuck in the UDFA camp, which is a shitty camp, because there's a very tight restriction on the amount of money teams are allowed to spend (I assume specifically to prevent the kind of refuse-to-enter-draft-become-a-free-agent kind of ploy.)
The system isn't very well structured to handle this kind of case. I'm surprised they didn't allow him as a supplemental. [Edit: Except for the fact that the NFL doesn't really need extra controversy and probably doesn't want to be seen extending work-arounds to potential murderers, even if he's not even really a potential murderer and this is blown out of proportion. It's a crappy headline, and they gain virtually nothing by it.]
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I think you're completely right. Solder, Stork and Vollmer are locked in as starters. Right now Cannon, Flemming, Jackson, Wendell, Mason and possibly Connolly (and Kline and Devey) are going to fight it out for two starting spots. Could Collins get one of them? Sure. Could he lose out to older guys with a lot of starting experience, a very similar young player in Jackson, or guys like Cannon and Flemming who have similar body types to Collins but a lot more in-system experience? Definitely. There are a lot of decent guys on the Pats' o-line.
The Bills or the Panthers or the Saints or guard for the Dolphins? Much less competition
Jnai said:
Maybe the NFL still gets dragged into allowing it if the Collins camp successfully petitions the CBA Special Master.
You can make these kind of arguments about these teams, too, though. The Saints just used the 13th pick on an OL. The Dolphins used a fourth this year on OL after using a first and a third last year and a third the year before that. The Bills had two rookie OL play extensively last year - and that doesn't include second-rounder Cyrus Kouandijo, or their third this year. We're post-free-agency, post-draft at this point; there shouldn't be any situations where a rookie, even a talented one like Collins, can walk into a situation and be guaranteed a starting job. I don't understand the argument that Collins isn't going to want to compete with Ryan Wendell and Tre' Jackson for a spot but is gung ho about competing with Cyril Richardson and John Miller in Buffalo or with Dallas Thomas and Jamil Douglas in Miami.Shelterdog said:
Super Nomario said:
Nobody is going to absolutely guarantee him a job regardless of performance but there are plenty of better situations, especially for a guy that wants to play tackle. Solder and Vollmer is one of the better tackle pairings in the league.
Super Nomario said:
If you think Collins' chances of cracking the starting lineup in NE is comparable to his chances in Buffalo, Miami, the Saints or the Panthers (to name a few) we'll just have to agree to disagree.
According to http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015-nfl-undrafted-free-agents (as pjr posted in the other thread) the Patriots have signed 7 undrafted rookie free agents, the Bills 11, the Dolphins 14 and the Jets 10. Does that mean the Pats have more to spend/offer Collins?
Think this is a function of roster limits rather than payroll. These guys don't get that much.pappymojo said:
According to PFT, teams are not yet allowed to contact this guy, at least while school's in, on campus. But Rex reportedly met with him in a diner in Baton Rouge, off campus.
So we could have yet another NFL shitshow stemming from its baroque rules about what's allowed, and what isn't.
Miguel put up a very comprehensive post tonight about Collins' potential contract and various CBA provisions.
Someone mentioned Canada upthread. What is the procedure there? Can he play a single season up north and then become a 'regular' free agent or would he still be considered a rookie FA? What would happen if he signs somewhere then gets cut?
Andrew Brandt on today's Ross Tucker podcast said that he was in contact with Collins' agents and the thinking was that if Collins went below the 2nd round the UDFA process might actually get him more money over 4 years than the lower rounds - since the UDFA contacts are only 3 years, a 4th year deal for something like $2m would essentially be like 2nd round money, only backloaded rather than front loaded.
And he's no longer a suspect or even a person of interest in the murder investigation. Not to gloss over the fact that a woman and unborn child were killed, but if in fact he had zero to do with this (as appears to be the case) could Collins' luck be any worse? Ex-girlfriend killed and he's eliminated as a suspect in a reasonably short amount of time, but it just so happens the daft is held in that time which costs him millions of dollars.