There was an article in the Daily Mail last November that contains every significant fact mentioned in that story. I think it's plagiarized.
Liverpool 2015-16: We Didn't Want To Play in Europe Anyway
- Thread starter DLew On Roids
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So, when we finally get Sturridge back, Benteke leaves after 45 with a hamstring injury. Awesome.
The cliche is that good teams make the most of their chances. Look at Juvé against City last week.
They're creating, but when Coutinho, Sturridge, and Milner all miss such gilded opportunities... This team is going nowhere.
They're creating, but when Coutinho, Sturridge, and Milner all miss such gilded opportunities... This team is going nowhere.
It's understandable that Sturridge is lacking some sharpness, but a lot of guys needed to do better today.
Yeah, the "sell Suarez for a dollar, and replace him with three quarters, two dimes and a nickel" plan doesn't seem to be paying off.MiracleOfO2704 said:
They started creating chances. That's progress, at least.
Rodgers blew the subs, but that's to be expected.
The finishing was abhorrent. It's that simple.
Rodgers blew the subs, but that's to be expected.
The finishing was abhorrent. It's that simple.
SocrManiac said:
The content of your statement is absolutely true.
Someone wrote Juvé in some other thread before (might have been you). While it might look cool and smart, that´s just wrong and it hurts the eye. To look smart, you can write cliché.
On Rodgers: I'm done. Not sack-him-today-it's-a-disaster done, but he's-never-going-to-win-big-find-the-next-guy done.
OK, he's had a radically changed squad in each of his four years. That's life at this level, where the clubs with the megabucks buy your 50M+ players and you have to retool. He just can't do it quickly enough to compete with the best managers in the Big Five leagues. I see players out of position, asked to play in systems that don't emphasize their strengths (Benteke, Can, Mignolet). I see players with enormous potential set aside while Rodgers chases the next shiny tactical solution (Moreno, Markovic). I see players who aren't cutting it given chance after chance because the manager sees something (Allen, Lucas).
There are nubs of justification for each of these decisions. I love Lucas's workrate and protection of the CBs. Can will be an outstanding box-to-box midfielder someday if his development continues apace. But the big picture is lost on Rodgers. He can't envision and implement an XI that minimizes the weaknesses and accentuates the strengths while having the creativity to unlock weakers opponents and being sound at the back. That's a tall order, sure, but that's the expectation at a club with more resources than all but about 10 clubs in the world. You need to be a world-class manager. Rodgers is a decent manager who, given half a season, can figure out how to construct an XI that causes major problems for other sides. He isn't fit for this level at this time, though.
OK, he's had a radically changed squad in each of his four years. That's life at this level, where the clubs with the megabucks buy your 50M+ players and you have to retool. He just can't do it quickly enough to compete with the best managers in the Big Five leagues. I see players out of position, asked to play in systems that don't emphasize their strengths (Benteke, Can, Mignolet). I see players with enormous potential set aside while Rodgers chases the next shiny tactical solution (Moreno, Markovic). I see players who aren't cutting it given chance after chance because the manager sees something (Allen, Lucas).
There are nubs of justification for each of these decisions. I love Lucas's workrate and protection of the CBs. Can will be an outstanding box-to-box midfielder someday if his development continues apace. But the big picture is lost on Rodgers. He can't envision and implement an XI that minimizes the weaknesses and accentuates the strengths while having the creativity to unlock weakers opponents and being sound at the back. That's a tall order, sure, but that's the expectation at a club with more resources than all but about 10 clubs in the world. You need to be a world-class manager. Rodgers is a decent manager who, given half a season, can figure out how to construct an XI that causes major problems for other sides. He isn't fit for this level at this time, though.
DLew On Roids said:
OK .. lets say FSG agrees with you and have already made the decision to try to get Klopp. So - behind-the-scenes negotiations are an absolute must here - you cant be visibly seen to publicly undermine the existing gaffer.
If you take him at his word (or the reporter), Klopp has indicated he didn't want to make any career decisions until at least November. So you do some discrete wining and dining (and offer him a large truckload full of English Pounds) and hope like hell he commits.
I suppose, for a prize like Klopp, its OK to let the club drift in the wilderness until a better option comes along. If Rodgers manages to beat the side into something resembling quality all the better - Klopp takes over a contending XI.
I think the danger is if Liverpool manage a few good results against some of the league's minnows (are there any?) FSG will be fooled into keeping him.
If Klopp is a possibility I think you go all in.
Klopp´s break can only be good for his international prospects. He was at the IAA and doing some work for Opel and talked about what he´s doing right now (living healthier, learning some languages, travelling, etc.) and that his future club could be big or small-market. I guess that should mean it doesn´t have to be Real, it could also be Gladbach and Tottenham, if they offer enough money and play in the Europa League.
I think if he´s talking at those promotion appointments, he´s also learning something - to behave more decent and laid-back, instead of the all-out and aggro-funny coach he is. He has to take the foot of the pedal sometimes, if he wants to get a long-term coach at a club where not everything is a perfect marriage like @Mainz or @Dortmund.
And he probably learns some better english and some basic french and spanish already. Who knows, where he will end up, although the Premier League is the most obvious destination.
I think if he´s talking at those promotion appointments, he´s also learning something - to behave more decent and laid-back, instead of the all-out and aggro-funny coach he is. He has to take the foot of the pedal sometimes, if he wants to get a long-term coach at a club where not everything is a perfect marriage like @Mainz or @Dortmund.
And he probably learns some better english and some basic french and spanish already. Who knows, where he will end up, although the Premier League is the most obvious destination.
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Was not beating Norwich at home enough evidence to you that even beating the minnows appears to be a tall order at this point? This team is a mess and I'm with DLew and the ever-growing chorus yelling for Rodgers' ouster. He's just not getting it done.
Bosoxen said:
I wasn't disagreeing with DLew at all - I was merely outlining a possible scenario for his replacement. In fact I agree completely with him (and you). But you don't sack him without a viable alternative at hand - and outside of Klopp there doesn't seem to be an obvious candidate. Patience grasshopper.
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Oh, I agree completely. Firing coaches midseason is never good - particularly when you don't have a safety net. I was merely pointing out that we're in no danger of Rodgers accidentally turning this mess into a competent club and mucking up any of the theoretical November plans.
Bosoxen said:
Ahh ,, but that's exactly what he did last year when he stumbled into the 3-4-3 and the team responded over a lengthy period. I'm not suggesting that it was because of any sort of genius on Rodgers behalf - IIRC, he was forced into it by injury restraints - but it certainly could happen again.
I went cold on Rodgers a while back. The main mitigation for me, in his favour, was the transfer committee; if he's not in charge of player aquisition, I cut him some slack. But...what I don't know is how big a voice does he have with regards to transfers, and, how big a voice would someother manager have? When Liverpool challenged for the title, there's a case of lightening being captured in a bottle. Suarez was on top form, Sturridge was mostly fit, Gerrard still had a vital role to play, Sterling had both potential and a clear position that used his best strengths.
But all good things must pass. Suarez was sold, Sturridge got injured, Gerrard slowed down, new faces came in and no one realy hit the ground running and some signings just haven't worked out. But the most jarring thing for me was, Liverpool had found (by accident or design) a great way of playing football. A mix of pace and quality in attack. it scared defenses shitless. it was a good system. Okay, i get it, Suarez gets sold, and Sturridge gets injured...but Liverpool had money to spend, and it's hard to replace Suarez, hard to replicate a style of play but not impossible to attempt. But last season, the aquisitions were on the whole poor, and the style of play last season wasn't great either and my idea and understanding of how Rodgers wants the game to be played, got a bit muddy and this season, it's muddied all the more.
Money's been spent but watching Liverpool I don't see a team with an abundance of possibilities going forwards and any team that wants to contend has to have a strong central defensive pairing. Liverpool doesn't have that yet. it's hard to criticize Rodgers, he's a good guy, he cares about the club. But where is his influence, what style of play does he advocate, how much clout does he have with the board when it comes to getting in quality players and paying wages. I've said it before, but it's amazing what one world class player can do for a team. They make good players raise their games, the effect they can have on a team can be stunning. But repalcing them is fuckin tough and I think teams like Liverpool need to really think about that side of things.
There's so much money in the BPL. We're going to see the big teams drop more points this year than any other, every side has quality, but what I've seen this year is some teams look more like teams than other teams. Liverpool for the most part look like a bunch of individuals. Palace and Leicester look like teams. Alex Ferguson's great skill (outside his man mangement ability) was building teams. Rodgers doesn't seem to be able to build a team...maybe that's not entirely his fault, but it's an issue that's for sure.
But all good things must pass. Suarez was sold, Sturridge got injured, Gerrard slowed down, new faces came in and no one realy hit the ground running and some signings just haven't worked out. But the most jarring thing for me was, Liverpool had found (by accident or design) a great way of playing football. A mix of pace and quality in attack. it scared defenses shitless. it was a good system. Okay, i get it, Suarez gets sold, and Sturridge gets injured...but Liverpool had money to spend, and it's hard to replace Suarez, hard to replicate a style of play but not impossible to attempt. But last season, the aquisitions were on the whole poor, and the style of play last season wasn't great either and my idea and understanding of how Rodgers wants the game to be played, got a bit muddy and this season, it's muddied all the more.
Money's been spent but watching Liverpool I don't see a team with an abundance of possibilities going forwards and any team that wants to contend has to have a strong central defensive pairing. Liverpool doesn't have that yet. it's hard to criticize Rodgers, he's a good guy, he cares about the club. But where is his influence, what style of play does he advocate, how much clout does he have with the board when it comes to getting in quality players and paying wages. I've said it before, but it's amazing what one world class player can do for a team. They make good players raise their games, the effect they can have on a team can be stunning. But repalcing them is fuckin tough and I think teams like Liverpool need to really think about that side of things.
There's so much money in the BPL. We're going to see the big teams drop more points this year than any other, every side has quality, but what I've seen this year is some teams look more like teams than other teams. Liverpool for the most part look like a bunch of individuals. Palace and Leicester look like teams. Alex Ferguson's great skill (outside his man mangement ability) was building teams. Rodgers doesn't seem to be able to build a team...maybe that's not entirely his fault, but it's an issue that's for sure.
Benteke to have MRI done on hamstring. Will miss Cup match with Carlisle, may miss Villa match.
:smith:
:smith:
That may not be a bad thing right now. I love Benteke's skill set and I think he's far more than a big target man, but I don't think Rodgers can help trying to deploy him that way. When he's been told to play like Emile Heskey, the whole side slows down.
I think the best XI right now looks like this:
Starting from the back, Liverpool have 2 options to distribute: Sakho picking up the ball deep from Mignolet, or Can once possession is established outside the 18. Moreno on the left can work in tight space with Firmino and Coutinho. Ibe on the right has the speed to force the opposing back four to play more conservatively, giving Liverpool more space in midfield. Can and Milner get to play to their strengths--winning the ball and recycling the attack in a part of the pitch where their lack of technique isn't exposed.
I think the best XI right now looks like this:
Starting from the back, Liverpool have 2 options to distribute: Sakho picking up the ball deep from Mignolet, or Can once possession is established outside the 18. Moreno on the left can work in tight space with Firmino and Coutinho. Ibe on the right has the speed to force the opposing back four to play more conservatively, giving Liverpool more space in midfield. Can and Milner get to play to their strengths--winning the ball and recycling the attack in a part of the pitch where their lack of technique isn't exposed.
I agree for the most part. Given the respective form of Lucas and Milner right now I might swap.
That formation is best case against a top half team (which the side isn't right now...), but against the teams they should beat at home I'd like to see two at the top. There's been a tendency to play from the back against a side that's packed in- there's no path to break them down. A fit and useful Lovren helping to anchor a back three would be ideal here, but that's been wishcasting of late. At this point I don t know if you just roll him out until he finds it or relegate him to the bench, but if Sakho or Skrtel go down there's no way back. I don't see Toure as a regular match day option.
A note on Skrtel... If he keeps knocking aimless headers about when he has the time and space to bring the ball down I'm going to lose my fucking mind. There were at least four instances against Norwich where he could have comfortably brought the ball down without any pressure and he instead bonked it to a marked teammate or directly back to the opposition. I don't know if it's a communication issue (not hearing he's free while locked in on the ball in the air) or if he's just an idiot, but it needs to stop.
That formation is best case against a top half team (which the side isn't right now...), but against the teams they should beat at home I'd like to see two at the top. There's been a tendency to play from the back against a side that's packed in- there's no path to break them down. A fit and useful Lovren helping to anchor a back three would be ideal here, but that's been wishcasting of late. At this point I don t know if you just roll him out until he finds it or relegate him to the bench, but if Sakho or Skrtel go down there's no way back. I don't see Toure as a regular match day option.
A note on Skrtel... If he keeps knocking aimless headers about when he has the time and space to bring the ball down I'm going to lose my fucking mind. There were at least four instances against Norwich where he could have comfortably brought the ball down without any pressure and he instead bonked it to a marked teammate or directly back to the opposition. I don't know if it's a communication issue (not hearing he's free while locked in on the ball in the air) or if he's just an idiot, but it needs to stop.
Lovren either just HORRIFICALLY rolled his ankle, or snapped it like a twig.
That looked gross.
That looked gross.
I was always in the give Rodgers time camp, but I think he has to go. It's not just that they aren't winning, it's that they aren't playing very well (1st half against Arsenal being the exception). Everything seems so lethargic. If you compare them to the way, for example, Leicester played in the 2nd half against Villa, it's like night and day.
I think there are some good players on this team, but the tactics just seem to be terrible, that's on the manager.
I think there are some good players on this team, but the tactics just seem to be terrible, that's on the manager.
I think if you're saying that about a coin flip result, you already know the answer.Jeff Van GULLY said:
Bogdan saves 3 penalties and gets a finger on another. Not a bad way to end his debut.
He and Ings get the plaudits, everyone else needs to hang their head.
He and Ings get the plaudits, everyone else needs to hang their head.
DLew On Roids said:
To be fair, that wasn't Liverpool Reserves going up against a League 2 side and just hanging on. All but Bogdan have considerable BPL experience. Getting taken to penalties is damning by itself.
Carlisle have surrendered the most goals in the FA this season.
Fucking hell Liverpool suck right now.
Fucking hell Liverpool suck right now.
I don't know what to make of this anymore.
It's not impossible for a minnow to slay a giant. That's why there are league cups in every country.
At this stage and in this situation, however...
Something has to give.
It's not impossible for a minnow to slay a giant. That's why there are league cups in every country.
At this stage and in this situation, however...
Something has to give.
It's times like this when i am reminded that my racist cousins who live in Carlisle are all Man U fans.
Lovren is out up to two months with ankle ligament damage. This virtually guarantees Toure is going to see some significant time- Sakho and Skrtel can't shoulder the entire load over that spell.
My new theory is he's had a nagging ankle injury the whole season, and he simply aggravated it yesterday. Hence the reason for his lousy play.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
Yeah, that's the ticket.