Liverpool 2015-16: We Didn't Want To Play in Europe Anyway
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Firmino cracked a bone in his back according to the manager's pre game press conference.
One way of making him pick a side is leaving him with only eleven players, I guess.
One way of making him pick a side is leaving him with only eleven players, I guess.
With all these rumours of Klopp's imminent availability and apparent desire to join Liverpool it seems rather strange that it hasn't happened yet. What more evidence does FSG need ? Another couple of dismal performances?
One has to imagine Klopp would be an upgrade regardless of the team's performance. So whats stopping them?
Possibilities:
Klopp wants a huge salary (unlikely a stumbling block)
Klopp wants total control over transfers - that is, no more transfer committee. (highly likely a stumbling block)
One has to imagine Klopp would be an upgrade regardless of the team's performance. So whats stopping them?
Possibilities:
Klopp wants a huge salary (unlikely a stumbling block)
Klopp wants total control over transfers - that is, no more transfer committee. (highly likely a stumbling block)
Klopp never complained about working under a Director of Football under Dortmund, so my bet would be that FSG is just giving Rodgers a little more time.
It does beg the question... What are they waiting for?
An uptick in form may relieve pressure and increase the bargaining position with Klopp, but more dropped points in the league or dropping out of other competitions doesn't buy anything. Rodgers is a dead man walking at this point and it makes no financial sense for him to resign. The players are performing like they know it. I'd love to understand the benefit to drawing this out.
An uptick in form may relieve pressure and increase the bargaining position with Klopp, but more dropped points in the league or dropping out of other competitions doesn't buy anything. Rodgers is a dead man walking at this point and it makes no financial sense for him to resign. The players are performing like they know it. I'd love to understand the benefit to drawing this out.
According to Honigstein, Klopp is still on sabbatical and won't consider offers until November.
There have been reports in the last few days that Klopp had changed his mind and would consider moving to the BPL (and Liverpool) immediately. No direct quotes from the man himself however. That - and the Ancelotti rumours -are what started the current firestorm.ConigliarosPotential said:
http://teamstre.am/1KGCigX
Emre Can was the ole man of the first, to be fair.
The central defenders just aren't consistent. Can shouldn't be back there to begin with. Skrtel seems bipolar- you never know who is going to show up. Lovren is hurt, but crap anyway. Sakho can be infuriating to watch and he's been especially awful today in his decision making and timing.
Toure doesn't seem like a long term or even viable alternative- can he even play 90 minutes?
What else is there at this point?
The central defenders just aren't consistent. Can shouldn't be back there to begin with. Skrtel seems bipolar- you never know who is going to show up. Lovren is hurt, but crap anyway. Sakho can be infuriating to watch and he's been especially awful today in his decision making and timing.
Toure doesn't seem like a long term or even viable alternative- can he even play 90 minutes?
What else is there at this point?
They certainly looked more sprightly .. And the 3-5-2 (or 3-2-3-2) formation seems to suit this lot .. Especially against "lesser" opponents.
Don't think it's going to save Rodgers job though. If Ancelotti or Klopp want the gig you have to think he's gone.
Don't think it's going to save Rodgers job though. If Ancelotti or Klopp want the gig you have to think he's gone.
Joe Gomez is about all. They could recall Lloyd Jones from Blackpool and Daniel Cleary is registered, but those descriptions are all you need to know about their viability in the EPL at this stage.SocrManiac said:
Sturridge brings a lot to the team. I just saw the highlights but he looked lively and took his goals well. But some of Liverpool's defending was keystone cops. But if Benteke and Sturridge can work well together and link up well with the attacking midfielders 3-2 victories might be the order of the day.
I just read a bizarre fact about Liverpool's opponent in the EL on Thursday, FC Sion: They are 13-0 in Swiss Cup finals.
Another strange story as we wait for an actual match this afternoon: Liverpool's loanee GK Lawrence Vigouroux was late to training at Swindon Town and tried to pay his £50 fine in pennies. Swindon Town was about to terminate his loan, but Vigouroux apologized and is back with Swindon.
1-1 FT home to Sion.
Loaning out Tiago Ilori only to continue playing Emre Can in defense is mind-boggling. Jordon Ibe's loss of form makes the loaning of Marković look similarly misguided.
That being said, Liverpool actually did not play poorly in the second half, but Origi and Lallana did not have the finish on two excellent scoring opportunities. Maybe they start finishing better under a new manager, maybe they don't - but having Ilori and Marković around would have helped.
Loaning out Tiago Ilori only to continue playing Emre Can in defense is mind-boggling. Jordon Ibe's loss of form makes the loaning of Marković look similarly misguided.
That being said, Liverpool actually did not play poorly in the second half, but Origi and Lallana did not have the finish on two excellent scoring opportunities. Maybe they start finishing better under a new manager, maybe they don't - but having Ilori and Marković around would have helped.
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/650725012081504256
So, who is your new manager going to be?
So, who is your new manager going to be?
I honestly have no idea who it might be - the timing suggests FSG know who it is and are giving him the international break to settle in.
I despise panic moves but the lack of direction and clear thought was even beginning to annoy me.
LFC is not the club many of us believe it still to be but there is still hope but that hope needs clarity of thought of Rodgers wasn't going to provide it.
Thanks to Brendan, we had one of the most remarkable 1/2 seasons in living memory and will always be something I'll remember - despite the outcome.
I can see a dream team set up of an experienced manager (Ancelotti/Klopp/Simeone - if any of them would consider us) working with #8. SG on his own is not going to work and it shouldn't be a consideration.
Thank you, Brendan, and good luck for the future.
I despise panic moves but the lack of direction and clear thought was even beginning to annoy me.
LFC is not the club many of us believe it still to be but there is still hope but that hope needs clarity of thought of Rodgers wasn't going to provide it.
Thanks to Brendan, we had one of the most remarkable 1/2 seasons in living memory and will always be something I'll remember - despite the outcome.
I can see a dream team set up of an experienced manager (Ancelotti/Klopp/Simeone - if any of them would consider us) working with #8. SG on his own is not going to work and it shouldn't be a consideration.
Thank you, Brendan, and good luck for the future.
A piece from the heart from Neil Atkinson at The Anfield Wrap
http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2015/10/brendan-rodgers-sacked-a-reaction/
http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2015/10/brendan-rodgers-sacked-a-reaction/
I imagine Can's mistake on Everton's goal was the functional equivalent of sending Pedro out for the eighth.
They'd better have a plan. If they spend the next two weeks playing footsie with Eddie Howe and Alex Neil, things could get worse.
Metro (I know, I know) says that one of Klopp's guys, who's Bosnian, told a Bosnian paper that they're going to Liverpool: http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/04/jurgen-klopp-agrees-three-year-deal-to-replace-brendan-rodgers-after-liverpool-v-everton-clash-report-5420421/
Metro (I know, I know) says that one of Klopp's guys, who's Bosnian, told a Bosnian paper that they're going to Liverpool: http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/04/jurgen-klopp-agrees-three-year-deal-to-replace-brendan-rodgers-after-liverpool-v-everton-clash-report-5420421/
The sad thing is that I think we could all see that first scenario playing out.DLew On Roids said:
I think the second scenario is more likely and will be a great fit. Rodgers is a good manager, but I think he was in over his head at LFC. For his sake hopefully his time at liverpool is a learning experience and he is better prepared to be a manager at a top club with real expectations. Klopp is a good fit for a few reasons, not the least that he understands how to operate with a big club.
They had a good discussion on MOTD extra, prior to the game. General agreement with the p anel including Shearer and Craig Lambert that the manager has to be in charge of recruitment. It's so tough to take the hit for what goes on on the park when you don't have control over signings. Liverpool really need to take a look at this policy. Hopefully if they get a big name manager he'll insist on full control over recruitment. Of course you can't get every player you want but I can't see the use of having players foisted upon you.
Sky sports Twitter account says that no candidates (including Klopp and Ancelotti) have been approached, but 1.) they want to appoint someone by the Tottenham match on the 17th 2.) there are no plans to appoint a caretaker manger.
Surprised at the timing, but not at the ultimate decision. If they don't already have someone lined up I'll be concerned.
cjdmadcow said:
That's a great article - thanks for the link. What is that quote about the football fan's default emotion being anger? I'm constantly reminded of this when following the game (and rarely need to look farther than the mirror to see this), but it's nice when circumstances conspire to change that, even if only for a while.
This is an extremely UK-centric position, though. Having a sporting director or director of football is the standard in virtually every other major league. The trick is to get the manager and the sporting director on the same page philosophically, as has usually been the case at a place like Barcelona since Cruyff established its current structure.swiftaw said:
It's fair to say, though, that the director of football structure is about as popular among British pundits as herpes. Just like zonal marking, when a club using it fails, the guy on TV will always point the finger at it.
SoxFanInCali said:
"Liverpool ready to appoint Jurgen Klopp as new manager within a week after sacking Brendan Rodgers"
http://goo.gl/qxAhHt
fletcherpost said:
I don't think that's right. The separate GM/Coach works in American sports and structurally has the advantage of the two having different time horizons, the GM a medium-long term one, the coach a short term one. The problem arises when the people doing the grocery shopping shift the blame for their failings to the coach.
Isn´t Ancelotti (calm, suit, gentleman) more made for the other possible opening @Chelsea, while Klopp (workman, aggressive, jogging trousers) is made for Liverpool.
It would be perfect, if Ancelotti goes to Liverpool, Klopp has nothing, Chelsea loses another match, fires Jose and then hires Klopp. Not that i like Chelsea, but...it would make them more likeable, it would be a positive PR-move, it could also bring them more success at the moment, and ... I don´t know which coach would be better for Liverpool. Maybe Ancelotti would fit in better, you never know, although conventional wisdom would say Klopp would be the perfect fit.
It would be perfect, if Ancelotti goes to Liverpool, Klopp has nothing, Chelsea loses another match, fires Jose and then hires Klopp. Not that i like Chelsea, but...it would make them more likeable, it would be a positive PR-move, it could also bring them more success at the moment, and ... I don´t know which coach would be better for Liverpool. Maybe Ancelotti would fit in better, you never know, although conventional wisdom would say Klopp would be the perfect fit.
Klopp really is perfect, from his demeanor to the his relationship with the very analogous Dortmund and their fans, to his name (headline writers will rejoice as Klopp/Kop drops into their laps).
No offense meant, but I assumed Klopp (like many in-demand managers) had his sights set on a "current potential Champions League finalist" kind of job, and was doing the Pep "sabbatical" thing to wait for a good one to shake out. If he really was self-aware (or just plain cool) enough to identify Liverpool as his preferred destination then it really might be the start of something special.
No offense meant, but I assumed Klopp (like many in-demand managers) had his sights set on a "current potential Champions League finalist" kind of job, and was doing the Pep "sabbatical" thing to wait for a good one to shake out. If he really was self-aware (or just plain cool) enough to identify Liverpool as his preferred destination then it really might be the start of something special.
Liverpool have been poor this season but if they were going to fire Rodgers after going 3-3-2 in their first eight games when he was without Sturridge and integrating a bunch of new players then they should have just fired him after the Stoke game last year and given the new manager the summer to buy players and put his team together.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with the Director of Football structure in the abstract. In this case, however, you have to ask serious questions about the competence of the upper management of the club, both in acquiring players and making these major decisions. Just like the Colts would probably be best off hiring a guy like Nick Saban who would not only become their new coach but also would demand control over player acquisition, thus forcing out not just Chuck Pagano but also Ryan Grigson, Liverpool would be best off hiring a manager like Klopp and giving them final say over player acquisitions simply because a guy like Klopp is unlikely to be any worse in that regard than whoever makes up the current "Transfer Committee."
I agree that there is nothing wrong with the Director of Football structure in the abstract. In this case, however, you have to ask serious questions about the competence of the upper management of the club, both in acquiring players and making these major decisions. Just like the Colts would probably be best off hiring a guy like Nick Saban who would not only become their new coach but also would demand control over player acquisition, thus forcing out not just Chuck Pagano but also Ryan Grigson, Liverpool would be best off hiring a manager like Klopp and giving them final say over player acquisitions simply because a guy like Klopp is unlikely to be any worse in that regard than whoever makes up the current "Transfer Committee."
Nick Kaufman said:
I'm not sure i'm in general agreement with you Nick, but I know that there will be some merit to your words, so I'll elaborate a bit on what I'm getting at. we're here to duscuss after all. A manager builds a team,a squad, or used to, and whilst he is in charge of the week to week, game to game management, he has to be or ought to be thinking long term too, because stability was seen as a good thing at football clubs. When Ferguson blooded the kids, was he thinking short term? When he signed Keane did he think he had a player for a couple of seasons until someone better came along? Or Rooney, or Ferdinand, or Schmeichel I don't think so. Good managers built teams around players who would, if they achieved their potential, or if they were already proven, be stalwarts of the team/squad for a significant length of time. Players would be added yearly but Managers would tend to avoid a major overhaul, because in the short term it weakens the wide week to week as players have to get used to each other. Shankly; Paisley; Clough; Ferguson; Wenger and Mourinho bought players who would make up the nucleus of a side for years to come. And it worked.
But, i accept the game has changed. But, Directors of Football will still think in the relative short term, a team is underperforming, possibly flirting with relegation, not challenging for the targetted top four spot. Any five year plan or three year plan goes out the window, a new manager comes in and we start again. See Sunderland, see Villa, they are the extreme but Liverpool and Spurs are also tending this way to an extent that i'd say is significant and detrimental, if we allow for the fact that managers are not getting as much say in the player aquisition department. Most/many football people will tell you that the two most important qualities of a manger are or used to be recruitment and man management. The latter must become tougher when the former is somewhat out of your hands.
I'm not sure it's apt to compare to an American model. But I'm happy to read more on the matter. I do think what works in Spain might not be what works in England. Or maybe that's the way we're going and the role of the manager is diminished to that of coach and then some but not too much. And maybe the days of the long term manager executing a long term plan and being the best man for the job, long term, maybe those days are over. It seems to me that year in year out Barca and Real are happy to get in a new manager because as long as the players are provided a relatively good coach will do just fine with what he's got. I dunno. I might in this regard be old fashioned in thinking that managers know the most about players and teams and squads and tactics, and whilst it is a big job, and help from the wings is needed, the manager has to be in charge. But then i only have the words of Ferguson ringing in my ears and i tend to beleive him, cos he was pretty good and smart with it.
But...he might have been the last of the great ones and an outlier. I do think there's room for discussion on this matter. And this post might not be a response to yours...but i have to go out now so I'm rushing a wee bit.
EDIT: this is in part a response to DLew but he needs to wash his cheese more often for me to directly reply. Fuckin stilton welt.