Well the Red Sox won't be playing any more of those this season, so might as well leave him in LF and see if he gets better.Toe Nash said:
If were supposed to be patient, then let's be patient across the board.
Napoli: 'I Don't Feel Too Comfortable'
- Thread starter ponchsox
- Start date
If were supposed to be patient, then let's be patient across the board.
Being patient means different things when describing expectations for recent call-ups versus for 32yr old veterans being paid $22M per year.Plympton91 said:
Hanley is what Hanley is. Signing him to play LF was foolishness, but it was optimistic foolishness grounded on expectation of a productive Napoli.
Now with the preseason's expectations completely blown out of the water, the team may as well be "patient" with him learning how to play 1b.
Buzzkill Pauley said:
If he won't put in the work to learn LF, which is a far easier and less important defensive position, he won't put in the work to learn 1B either.
All the enthusiam for putting Ramirez at 1B is really just thinly veiled attempt to open up an outfield spot by those wishcasting JAAAAckie BrAAAAdley Jr's new found ability to hit AAA pitching.
Agreed. We don't really know JBJ can't hit MLB pitching tho we have our suspicions. Seems worth it to give him one more real shot in a rebuilding year given the large pay off if he makes the grade. Napoli is definitely not playing on our next good team; Bradley maybe so.
No, it's driven by the fact that Hanley plays an atrocious LF, might play an acceptable 1B, and has no reasonable path to DH until Papi retires.Plympton91 said:
The Sox could use an everyday OF of Holt - Castillo - De Aza, and it would still be worth it to see if the team already has the successor to Mike Napoli on payroll.
And I disagree about LF being "easier" than 1b. Especially when half the team's games are played in front of the monster.
Abs looks at Napoli's performance and the Red Sox unsavory, but probably necessary, options:
http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/al-east/boston-red-sox/the-mike-napoli-humdrum-conundrum/
http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/al-east/boston-red-sox/the-mike-napoli-humdrum-conundrum/
The Sox have a 4 game set against the Angels in mid July, so that bodes well for Napoli if he's still around. If you take out his Angels series (2.667 OPS, 4 of his 10 HR in 3 games), his 2015 stats are even more dreadful.
I still think Napoli has some real trade value. This season is almost completely sunk (one great two-week stretch could pull them right back into it, but I don't think anyone here is counting on that). I think they should very much explore the market for Napoli (he still has power, is a solid veteran, and plays a terrific 1b still, so he could go to either league) and just let Craig come up and play 1b. Who knows….maybe Craig can be something again (.832 ops in a terrific pitcher's league in AAA). If not, what does it matter?
ivanvamp said:
I don't think Napoli has any real trade value at all. The only thing he'd be picked up for by a contender is a RH bench bat, with his slash line holding at .200/.300/.400. Two to three months rental of that means he might get a chance to play for a team sniffing the playoffs, but it doesn't mean the Sox would get anything back except AA-ball organizational filler.
As for Craig, it's worth $30M against the Payroll Tax for him to stay down in AAA. Unless he and starts OPSing 1.000 or so, there's no way he gets added back onto the 40-man roster.
Not to pile on, but Napoli is closer to being DFA than traded for a meaningful return.ivanvamp said:
He's down to .192/.280/.342 against right-handers and owed $16M this season. He's a veteran presence and a solid defensive 1B, and would be attractive to some contenders (Cardinals if Adams has a setback?) as a bench piece in August, but not that many teams can afford to pay much for a guy to be a backup 1B who only bats against LHP.
If anything, I would look at the White Sox trade of Adam Dunn to the A's last August as something of a comparison -- they got back a High-A reliever with control problems.
After today, Napoli is sitting on a OPS of .620 against righties. He needs to be a platoon player and late game defensive replacement at this point.
The obvious move would be to play Holt there full time against righties, but Brock has stated first base is his least comfortable position. Is it too much of a panic move to send Sandoval to 1B, a position he's played 63 games in the majors? He's had defensive lapses with his throwing this season, maybe 1B would be a welcome change. And that lets Holt play 3B, a position he's more comfortable playing.
Regardless, I just don't want to see them rolling Napoli out there everyday anymore.
The obvious move would be to play Holt there full time against righties, but Brock has stated first base is his least comfortable position. Is it too much of a panic move to send Sandoval to 1B, a position he's played 63 games in the majors? He's had defensive lapses with his throwing this season, maybe 1B would be a welcome change. And that lets Holt play 3B, a position he's more comfortable playing.
Regardless, I just don't want to see them rolling Napoli out there everyday anymore.
derekson said:
Are you suggesting Hanley and Napoli in the same lineup against LHP, with Nap at DH and Hanley at 1B on those days? With Ortiz and Hanley on the roster, the DH slot should be pretty full without Nap involved.
It would make sense to have Hanley platooning with Ortiz, and then Hanley bumping Nap off 1B for the majority of the starts against RHP. Unfortunately, I don't expect them to try and work Hanley into the 1B position until next year, he's had enough of a struggle in LF. 1B might be a disaster too.
Hanley should be at DH as much as humanly possible, against all LHPs would be a good start. Ortiz would likely be a tough sell on that one though….
radsoxfan said:
Considering the way he's currently performing vs. LHP, if he's a tough sell on sitting against them then I hope he demands (and gets) a trade. I know, I know, we want his Sox career to end on a positive note, etc. But isn't that a two-way street? If the price of keeping him happy is to cater to his ego at the expense of the team, is that really a positive note, or just keeping up appearances?
I'd rather see them trade Hanley. If he's not playing well in LF, it's because he's not trying hard enough. And, if he's not trying hard enough, then he's a potential cancer, which is what he's been rumored to be at times from Portland through Los Angeles. Anyone capable of playing SS in the major leagues can play left field. Sorry.Savin Hillbilly said:
As a fellow Papi hater . . . too strong? I agree. Fortunately they are facing 10 straight righties (not counting Buerhle if they face him), so they can probably justify the next lefty he faces as a day off. If he keeps up his improvement this month and is going well, I can see them continue to face lefties until he falls into a slump again.Savin Hillbilly said:
The AL East is all righties, aside from Sabathia and Buehrle, and neither of those are exactly death to lefties right now.
What could they get for him? The word is out that he's a lousy left fielder, and a lousy base runner. Didn't he declare he 's not going back to the infield? He's too expensive to be a full time DH. So, you rule out the NL for the combination of his fielding, base running and salary, and the AL for probably anybody except the Yankees or some mystery team that might be willing to pay him for that one bat they feel could help take them deep into the playoffs. Yankees are using ARod a lot at DH, he's hitting very well, so they're probably out. Boston is stuck with him unless they decide to sell real low because they think he is becoming a cancer, which I haven't heard anything about, but what do I know.Plympton91 said:
Al Zarilla said:
Don't all of those reasons also make getting anything for Ortiz impossible?
I haven't heard that he said he wouldn't go back to the infield, just that he didn't want to move to 1B (and even that was only in the context of a reporter asking the question about a midseason switch, a time when making that change would be beyond stupid anyway). He did already come in and play 3B once this season. My guess is that if Sandoval suffered a season ending injury tonight, Ramirez would play 3B the rest of 2015.
So another option I'd pursue before trading Ortiz, would be to trade Sandoval.
But, again, just to be clear, as long as Hanley is putting in the pre-game work in LF, I expect he will become a passable outfielder and wouldn't make any changes based on season-to-date observations or the prescriptions suggested by fatally flawed so-called "advanced" defensive metrics that are akin to plus/minus ratings in hockey.
grimshaw said:
I'm not a Papi hater. I love everything he has done for this franchise and I think he is a legitimate borderline Hall candidate, if that doesn't sound too oxymoronic. But that doesn't mean he should be immune from criticism.
If Napoli is cooked (I'm not willing to bet the ranch on that just yet), isn't the best realistic alternative playing Ortiz at 1st and Ramirez at DH? I agree that a Napoliless team going forward has Sandoval playing 1B and somehow finding a competent 3B not named Brockholt. LF is easy to fill. Ramirez is the long term DH. Sandoval's skills should translate well to 1B.
Ortiz isn't a terrible 1b defensively, but he can't play there routinely for health reasons. He had knee problems earlier in his career, he's a big guy, and not terribly flexible. You can't count on him to do more than play maybe 2/3 interleague games in an interleague series.geoduck no quahog said:
I understand the argument against.
On the other hand, so many are calling for a platoon or forced retirement...but I assume that Ortiz' value at 1B would be greater than the current value of Napoli. Maybe not, maybe the slightly better hitting would never balance the worse fielding.
As for his health. I'm going to google it, but I don't recall any recent hesitation to play him at 1B, or Ortiz complaining about playing in the field. I actually thought I read somewhere that he'd prefer it, but I'm probably wrong.
I can't think of many good alternatives when dropping Napoli, ones that don't immediately open up a bigger hole on the team. Hanley playing 1B has a real bad feel about it.
edit: some "public relations" quotes from Ortiz:
From 2012:
blah, blah, blah...
Maybe Craig will learn to play baseball again.
On the other hand, so many are calling for a platoon or forced retirement...but I assume that Ortiz' value at 1B would be greater than the current value of Napoli. Maybe not, maybe the slightly better hitting would never balance the worse fielding.
As for his health. I'm going to google it, but I don't recall any recent hesitation to play him at 1B, or Ortiz complaining about playing in the field. I actually thought I read somewhere that he'd prefer it, but I'm probably wrong.
I can't think of many good alternatives when dropping Napoli, ones that don't immediately open up a bigger hole on the team. Hanley playing 1B has a real bad feel about it.
edit: some "public relations" quotes from Ortiz:
From 2012:
blah, blah, blah...
Maybe Craig will learn to play baseball again.
Rudy Pemberton said:
If Sandoval were not available long term, the most likely scenario is Holt would be essentially the full-time RF (even more than now) and Hanley would go to 3B.
Plympton91 said:
To continue on the Hanley theme…. Hanley's body transformation is very significant, particularly over the past couple of years. He does not even remotely resemble the guy who played SS in the majors.
I know guys typically gain weight and strength as they age, but Hanley's change has been extreme. He is so stiff and slow out there I'm not sure he can play a competent OF, even if he tries. It's hard to know how much of the stiffness and slowness is effort, but I think his offseason workout regimen was a major problem for him. He was told he needed to play OF right?
Maybe the team should have been a little more involved in making sure he maintained at least some semblance of athleticism and flexibility instead of showing up looking like a run stuffing middle linebacker.
If he bombs again, can we send him down again?Thelobsterroll said:
I would kind of like to see him called up for September if the scouts are convinced there's something there. If they aren't, of like to leave him off the 40 man and see if he has the confidence in himself to opt out of his contract.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 1h1 hour ago
Boston ranks 30th among 30 teams in OPS for its first basemen.
Boston ranks 30th among 30 teams in OPS for its first basemen.
7th for DH out of 15 is midpack, but there must be some truly awful DH OPS on other teams for 7th to be that much better than avg. Yikes.
I know Holt is not crazy about first base but what about moving Holt to first base and De Aza to right? At this point I would rather see De Aza come up to bat then Napoli.
And my suggestion has come to pass at least for today. I wonder if this could become permanent against righties
Thelobsterroll said:
He did heat up for a couple of weeks in late May. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=napolmi01&t=b&year=2015.
And he had a hot spring training following surgery. 6 homers and a 1.342 OPS.
But that's all he's done since last August/Sept, which were also bad.
At least he's hitting lefties decently. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=napolmi01&year=2015&t=b#plato
With Sam Travis in AA, it's probably a higher than 0% chance he could be our 1b next year. Probably not much higher, but the possibility exists.
I'm guessing a late season call up isn't out of the question but I'd be very surprised if he sees any major league playing time in the first half barring a Swihart situation. He's making a big jump right now but I would bet on him settling down relatively quickly and continuing to rake after a few weeks if he does happen to stumble out of the gate.
http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/al-east/boston-red-sox/recently-promoted-sam-travis-can-rake/
http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/al-east/boston-red-sox/recently-promoted-sam-travis-can-rake/
I think that's an interesting definition of "next season" considering here's likely to start next season in AA.bosox79 said:
What it does suggest is that if anyone is brought in, it's for a short term, maybe even someone to platoon with Nava.
My guess is Craig gets a chance.
Rosenthal posited that the Indians might be willing to deal old trade target Carlos Santana who would fill 1B for a bit. No word on what the tribe would want back
Why not give Travis Shaw a real look in a platoon capacity? Let Napoli face LHP (where he has a .867 OPS thanks to half his home runs coming from that side in only about a quarter of his ABs) while Shaw faces RHP. Napoli gets plenty of time in the cage to figure out while he doesn't "feel comfortable" and we get to see if Shaw should even be on the radar.
I posted this before, but I don't think he "heated up" in May exactly, I think he got to face two LH starters in CJ Wilson and Hector Santiago.Rovin Romine said:
Nap can still hit LHP (.867 OPS). What he can't do anymore is hit RHP (.616 OPS).
And here's the trend vs. RHP:
2015: .616 OPS
2014: .739 OPS
2013: .816 OPS
2012: .861 OPS
2011: 1.044 OPS