NFL: News and transactions

luckiestman

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Cobb is going to be WR5 unless he is productive. It’s a “who cares” move. I’m still surprised we kept Corey Davis. Right now from memory the WRs are

Wilson
Davis
Lazard
Hardman
Cobb
Mims
 

luckiestman

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Can we make a gentleman’s agreement to post potentially roster affecting moves only? I’m not that bothered by reading about Fredo here, but popping the NFL thread open and being greeted with “this cute little baby girl drowned” is something I wasn’t ready for yesterday in this thread. Maybe like an NFL TMZ thread.
 

djbayko

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Either Michigan told the NFL or it was obtained by the Michigan equivalent of FOIA, which is my best guess. The only impacted parties were five Lions players, four Lions employees, and one Washington player who played an away game in Detroit last season.
But how would the NFL know that making such a request would be fruitful at this time? Are they just submitting requests to all legalized gambling states on a regular basis, hoping that they catch something? I'd think the more logical answer is that Michigan told them.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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But how would the NFL know that making such a request would be fruitful at this time? Are they just submitting requests to all legalized gambling states on a regular basis, hoping that they catch something? I'd think the more logical answer is that Michigan told them.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if they were requesting data from all states that audit.

I was the one who made the jump from the NFLPA's statement that it was Michigan that got the data, and that seems to be the reporting on this. But, for whatever it's worth, the NFLPA statement is vague. It's not clear that the information here was the result of an audit in Michigan. Seems reasonable given that all the suspensions occurred in Michigan, but it's not clear. Re-reading the NFLPA's statement it seems clear that they are advising players of more than one way the NFL could get the information, including by the sites themselves giving it to the NFL. "Further the apps monitor gambler activity. It was as part of that monitoring . . . '

Anyway, my read of the FanDuel privacy guidelines is that they have tried to preserve for themselves very broad disclosure rights, including of tracking information. I'm sure they are selling the shit out of the data they are collecting. Hopefully in the aggregate, but probably not. Which means there may be multiple paths for the NFL to get this information if they really are motivated to get it. There are plenty of provisions in here that would allow them to give information about player tracking directly to the NFL. Whether that would be a wise move as a business move is unclear.

Anyway, here's the privacy policy -- not much protection at all except in the states that have enhanced privacy laws.

https://www.fanduel.com/fanduel-sportsbook-privacy-policy
 

Mystic Merlin

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I actually wouldn't be surprised if they were requesting data from all states that audit.

I was the one who made the jump from the NFLPA's statement that it was Michigan that got the data, and that seems to be the reporting on this. But, for whatever it's worth, the NFLPA statement is vague. It's not clear that the information here was the result of an audit in Michigan. Seems reasonable given that all the suspensions occurred in Michigan, but it's not clear. Re-reading the NFLPA's statement it seems clear that they are advising players of more than one way the NFL could get the information, including by the sites themselves giving it to the NFL. "Further the apps monitor gambler activity. It was as part of that monitoring . . . '

Anyway, my read of the FanDuel privacy guidelines is that they have tried to preserve for themselves very broad disclosure rights, including of tracking information. I'm sure they are selling the shit out of the data they are collecting. Hopefully in the aggregate, but probably not. Which means there may be multiple paths for the NFL to get this information if they really are motivated to get it. There are plenty of provisions in here that would allow them to give information about player tracking directly to the NFL. Whether that would be a wise move as a business move is unclear.

Anyway, here's the privacy policy -- not much protection at all except in the states that have enhanced privacy laws.

https://www.fanduel.com/fanduel-sportsbook-privacy-policy
A company like FanDuel has a strong incentive to play ball with the NFL in terms of facilitating enforcement of the league’s gambling policy, so I think you’re on the right track.
 

djbayko

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I actually wouldn't be surprised if they were requesting data from all states that audit.

I was the one who made the jump from the NFLPA's statement that it was Michigan that got the data, and that seems to be the reporting on this. But, for whatever it's worth, the NFLPA statement is vague. It's not clear that the information here was the result of an audit in Michigan. Seems reasonable given that all the suspensions occurred in Michigan, but it's not clear. Re-reading the NFLPA's statement it seems clear that they are advising players of more than one way the NFL could get the information, including by the sites themselves giving it to the NFL. "Further the apps monitor gambler activity. It was as part of that monitoring . . . '

Anyway, my read of the FanDuel privacy guidelines is that they have tried to preserve for themselves very broad disclosure rights, including of tracking information. I'm sure they are selling the shit out of the data they are collecting. Hopefully in the aggregate, but probably not. Which means there may be multiple paths for the NFL to get this information if they really are motivated to get it. There are plenty of provisions in here that would allow them to give information about player tracking directly to the NFL. Whether that would be a wise move as a business move is unclear.

Anyway, here's the privacy policy -- not much protection at all except in the states that have enhanced privacy laws.

https://www.fanduel.com/fanduel-sportsbook-privacy-policy
Okay, I now see that the original statement from the NFLPA isn't clear on whether it was MI monitoring or FD's own monitoring which raised the red flag on these players. Yeah, I'd think that close cooperation between the NFL and the sportsbooks is very likely, especially since we've already seen sportsbooks rat on players in prior cases.
 

joe dokes

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A company like FanDuel has a strong incentive to play ball with the NFL in terms of facilitating enforcement of the league’s gambling policy, so I think you’re on the right track.
It might even be written into their sponsorship agreements. "If you take bets from players and dont tell us, the ads stop and we keep your money" or something more legal and less hyperbolic.
 

Dogman

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My hunch is the NFL is receiving bettor reports from FD on a periodic basis as part of those agreements. At least, that makes sense to me given my experiences with sponsorship agreements, etc.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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Cobb is going to be WR5 unless he is productive. It’s a “who cares” move. I’m still surprised we kept Corey Davis. Right now from memory the WRs are

Wilson
Davis
Lazard
Hardman
Cobb
Mims[/B]
For now at least. Very surprised everything they’ve accomplished without the 3 seemingly obvious moves: the release of Lawson, Moseley or Davis. I suppose add Whitehead to that list
 

luckiestman

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For now at least. Very surprised everything they’ve accomplished without the 3 seemingly obvious moves: the release of Lawson, Moseley or Davis. I suppose add Whitehead to that list
I don’t think it makes sense to cut Moseley, I’d have to look it up. I thought Whitehead and Davis were going to be gone. Lawson was 50/50. These are all good players, it just a question of if they’re the best the Jets can do at the number they’re at.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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I don’t think it makes sense to cut Moseley, I’d have to look it up. I thought Whitehead and Davis were going to be gone. Lawson was 50/50. These are all good players, it just a question of if they’re the best the Jets can do at the number they’re at.
Maybe not an outright cut but at least an extension to stretch the salary a little. JD put on his GM pants this off-season! I want to be excited about this upcoming season but 25 years of Jets fandom is running through my head. I at least feel like we’re in good shape this season and hopefully next as well
 

luckiestman

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You'll love Al. I think he slipped a bit last year, so that's why Seattle didn't bring him back, but he was basically the primary run stopper on the team and if you have someone better than him, he'll fit in.
Nice. We need a guy that can line up near the ball and be big. Seems like a nice fit lining up next to Quinnen.

This team is loaded. Could use another LB/FS/WR for depth. It will come down to health for them.
 

ifmanis5

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View: https://twitter.com/ABCWorldNews/status/1654144875531468800

BREAKING: The NFL is being investigated over allegations of workplace discrimination and hostility by California and New York AGs.

New York Attorney General Letitia James and California Attorney General Rob Bonta are investigating the NFL over allegations of workplace discrimination and hostility, their offices said Thursday.

The joint investigation will examine the workplace culture of the NFL and allegations by former employees of gender discrimination and retaliation.

Those allegations first surfaced in a February 2022 report in The New York Times that said more than 30 former female NFL employees were retaliated against after they had filed complaints with human resources.
 

Hoya81

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Would probably explain why Irsay went so publicly against Snyder last season.
 

Shelterdog

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He almost looks like a Make A Wish kid that got to take some practice snaps. Goes to show how Massive O-linemen are though.
Was randomly standing next to an nfl offensive lineman yesterday (he was in street clothes). I’m a barrel chested six foot tall guy and he just dwarfed me. They’re so fucking big
 

InstaFace

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rodderick

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Seth Wickersham writes a career obit for Matt Ryan, an article that really really wanted to be something greater like that lengthy Wright Thompson profile of Joe Montana, on mortality and immortality, that brought tears to the eyes in this forum... but in the end, just wasn't quite up to the level. Much like his subject.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/37655742/falcons-colts-quarterback-matt-ryan-retirement-possible-retirement-hall-fame-legacy
I really like Matt Ryan, but he's in that echelon of QB that exists in every era, one that's unfortunate to share his time with some of the greats. He was a very good, consistent player, he won an MVP, he was minutes away from winning a Super Bowl. Then again, all of that applies to Boomer Esiason. Ryan's numbers are gaudier, but not if you adjust for passing environment. We have to be very careful with these guys that played their whole career when the NFL was at its friendliest for QBs, very easy to overrate them in the immediate aftermath of their retirement. Let's see how impressive 62k yards passing is 12 years from now. To me he's not a hall of famer, but he's closer than Phillip Rivers.
 

BigSoxFan

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I really like Matt Ryan, but he's in that echelon of QB that exists in every era, one that's unfortunate to share his time with some of the greats. He was a very good, consistent player, he won an MVP, he was minutes away from winning a Super Bowl. Then again, all of that applies to Boomer Esiason. Ryan's numbers are gaudier, but not if you adjust for passing environment. We have to be very careful with these guys that played their whole career when the NFL was at its friendliest for QBs, very easy to overrate them in the immediate aftermath of their retirement. Let's see how impressive 62k yards passing is 12 years from now. To me he's not a hall of famer, but he's closer than Phillip Rivers.
Boomer is a pretty good call. Both guys made 1 all-pro team and 4 pro bowls. The HOF voting can be fickle and I would have been fine with him in if they had won the SB. He was a good to very good QB but not one that NFL teams really ever feared. And I’m a BC guy so I’ll be fine with either decision and hope he does get in. The guy really is a class act and always has been.
 

rodderick

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Boomer is a pretty good call. Both guys made 1 all-pro team and 4 pro bowls. The HOF voting can be fickle and I would have been fine with him in if they had won the SB. He was a good to very good QB but not one that NFL teams really ever feared. And I’m a BC guy so I’ll be fine with either decision and hope he does get in. The guy really is a class act and always has been.
Yeah, with a Super Bowl win and an MVP you kinda would have had no choice but to put him in, I just think voters should be careful when weighing raw volume stats because we're in an era in which guys like Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins and Derek Carr will likely all retire with more yards and TD passes than, say, John Elway.
 

joe dokes

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I really like Matt Ryan, but he's in that echelon of QB that exists in every era, one that's unfortunate to share his time with some of the greats. He was a very good, consistent player, he won an MVP, he was minutes away from winning a Super Bowl.
I think Ryan's late long sideline pass to Julio Jones in that SB will always remain stuck in my mind's eye as one of the best single passes I've ever seen. (I'm sure there have been others, but for some reason, that one sticks out and stays with me really clearly).
 

Dan Murfman

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How many MVP winners aren't in the HOF?
1968 Earl Morrall
1969 Roman Gabriel
1970 John Brodie
1972 Larry Brown
1976 Bert Jones
1980 Brian Sipe
1981 Ken Anderson
1982 Mark Mosley
1983 Joe Theismann
1988 Boomer Esiason
2002 Rich Gannon
2003 Steve McNair
2005 Shaun Alexander

Then you have the ones who are still playing or not yet eligible

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Adrian Peterson
Cam Newton
Matt Ryan
Patrick Mahomes
Lamar Jackson
 

tims4wins

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I think Ryan's late long sideline pass to Julio Jones in that SB will always remain stuck in my mind's eye as one of the best single passes I've ever seen. (I'm sure there have been others, but for some reason, that one sticks out and stays with me really clearly).
While it ended up being a great pass, some have criticized the decision given the coverage
 

BigJimEd

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Never really thought of Ryan as a Hall of Famer. Had the one very good year and a bunch of good years. Rivers seems like a good comp and I wouldn't vote for either if I had a vote. Won't be surprised if Ryan gets in but to me he's in that tier just below.
 

mwonow

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If I were ranking that list of long-retired guys, based on the ones I watched on TV, I would probably put Ken Anderson as next (and maybe only).
 

Ralphwiggum

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While it ended up being a great pass, some have criticized the decision given the coverage
Yeah this. If you look at what Ryan saw when let that ball go I think it was a horrendous decision. Jones is covered and there is no window to get that ball in. He got bailed out by IMO the single greatest catch in Super Bowl history. Just an insane catch by Jones.

That said I always like Ryan and concur that he's not quite a HOFer, but was still a very good player over an extended period of time.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Ryan compares favorably to Eli statistically (including in the postseason). He also has a league MVP, whereas Eli never received a single MVP vote. Both players had incredible durability. Eli had two memorable Super Bowl 4th quarters, is a Manning, and played in NY, so he will get in and Ryan won’t.

But I think neither or both should get in, personally.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah this. If you look at what Ryan saw when let that ball go I think it was a horrendous decision. Jones is covered and there is no window to get that ball in. He got bailed out by IMO the single greatest catch in Super Bowl history. Just an insane catch by Jones.

That said I always like Ryan and concur that he's not quite a HOFer, but was still a very good player over an extended period of time.
Was a classic Matty Ice throw. His senior year at BC, he made tons of great plays and tons of "what the hell was that" throws. I think he had almost 20 INTs that year. Some of that was because our WRs never got any separation so he was always throwing into tight windows and some of it was that was just his style of play.

The throw to Julio turned out well for him but could have been disastrous. Given the situation, it was a poor decision that simply worked out due to Julio making a superhuman catch and Logan Ryan (I think?) just mistiming it. Of course, when you have a WR like prime Julio, sometimes it is worth it to just throw it up and see what he can do...but not then. I remember being happy that he threw it and being astounded when it actually resulted in a completion. Make that throw 10 times, and it's probably an incompletion 7 times, INT 2 times, and a catch 1 time.
 

BigSoxFan

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Ryan compares favorably to Eli statistically (including in the postseason). He also has a league MVP, whereas Eli never received a single MVP vote. Both players had incredible durability. Eli had two memorable Super Bowl 4th quarters, is a Manning, and played in NY, so he will get in and Ryan won’t.

But I think neither or both should get in, personally.
Which is why that SB was so disastrous for Ryan's HOF chances. With some good counting stats, a regular season MVP, and a SB MVP win over Brady/BB, he would have been a pretty strong lock for the HOF. Now? I just can't see him getting the support he needs. Eli is very clearly getting in and his supporters will basically just be reverting to "count the ringzzz" arguments. He probably needed SB46 to put him over the top so, again, thanks Welker.
 

InstaFace

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If I were ranking that list of long-retired guys, based on the ones I watched on TV, I would probably put Ken Anderson as next (and maybe only).
Hmmm... never having seen him on TV, let me consider Ken Anderson's case.

A 16-year career, all for the same team, 13 of which were as the primary starter at QB, in an era when the defense could take cheap shot after cheap shot almost without penalty. Plus one MVP, 2 all-pros, 4 pro bowls, 198 games played, 160 AV (120 weighted). 4 playoff appearances, one of which (his MVP year) was a run to the Super Bowl. Yeah, there are probably worse QB careers that have been elected to the Hall of Fame.

Of the 29 QBs in the HOF, Anderson's 32848 passing yards would rank 14th, his 206 TDs would rank 17th, and among the 17 HOF QBs who played entirely 1960+ and thus have full AV numbers, Anderson's 120 weighted AV would rank 10th, ahead of Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Kurt Warner, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Bob Griese, and Roger Staubach. 15 of the 29 have fewer than his 13 years as a starter, his 4 Pro Bowls exceeds Terry Bradshaw's 3 and equals 3 others', and 13 have either 0 or 1 years as 1st-team All-Pro (Anderson has that 1 year) - even Elway, Moon, Staubach and Aikman each had zero*.

On the career AV leaderboard, the highest AVs of eligible people who are not yet in the HOF are:

28. DE Jim "wrong way" Marshall**, 168
46. QB Ken Anderson**, 160 (finalist 1996, 1998, semifinalist 2023)
54. C Jeff Saturday, 156 (4x nominated 2020-2023)
59. WR Reggie Wayne, 153 (finalist 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023)
77. QB John Hadl**, 146
80. G Jahri Evans, 145 (semifinalist 2023, in 1st year eligible)
83. DT Ron McDole**, 144
83. OT Jim Tyrer**, 144 (finalist 1981)
86. OT Lomas Brown**, 143
94. QB Carson Palmer, 141
94. QB Vinny Testaverde, 141 (1x nominated 2016)
100. QB Drew Bledsoe, 139 (6x nominated 2012-2021)
100. OT Mike Kenn**, 139 (semifinalist 2015, 2016, 2017)

Bold = PFR HOF Monitor score is above that of average HOFers at their position.

... and among the other MVP winners:
116. QB Boomer Esiason, 137. 1x AP1, 4x PB, 12x Starter, 3-2 in Playoffs (2 yrs)
150. QB Roman Gabriel, 130. 1x AP1, 4x PB, 11x Starter, 0-2 in Playoffs (2 yrs)
155. QB John Brodie, 129. 1x AP1 (3x MVP candidate), 2x PB, 11x Starter, 2-3 in Playoffs (3 yrs)
181. QB Steve McNair, 125. 0x AP1, 3x PB, 10x Starter, 5-5 in Playoffs (5 yrs) - 9x nominated 2013-2023
236. QB Rich Gannon, 118. 2x AP1, 4x PB, 8x Starter, 4-3 in Playoffs (6 yrs) - 2x nominated 2015 + 2018

(and N.B.: 11. Philip Rivers, 218 AV. I think he's getting in, eventually.)

Anderson is the highest-AV eligible QB who isn't in the HOF, and I think the above makes the case that he'd be a pretty solid choice and probably deserves it. That he ran into the 49ers' buzzsaw in the pre-salary-cap era is not really a black mark on him. He is of course **senior committee eligible, and was twice a modern-era finalist (1996 and 1998), so if the senior committee is going to nominate and then elect the likes of Ken Stabler, I think it's only a matter of time before Anderson follows him.

The only other MVP winner on that list who should probably be in the conversation for election imo is Earl Morrall**, who won 3 rings with 2 different teams (at ages 36, 38 and 39; twice getting playoff games incl the 1970 Super Bowl in relief of Unitas and starting both AFC playoff games for the undefeated 1972 Dolphins), in a 21-year career that spanned many eras. I can't even make a squinting case for any of the others. There's a long list of probably-deserving candidates who don't even make the semifinalist list (Steve Wisniewski, anyone?), so hard to see how any of the other MVP winners ever really get seriously considered.

Final note: Avg PFR HOFm score for QB HOFers is 108, only exceeded (by not-yet-HOFers) by Brady, Rodgers and Brees. However, just under that mark is indeed Matt Ryan at 106, followed by Roethlisberger at 100 and Rivers at 98. Leaving aside Mahomes, Wilson and Stafford (active), the next-up retired QB is Eli Manning at 85, but Ken Anderson follows with an 83. Boomer (68) and Theismann (66) are a lot farther from the standard. The only HOF QBs with a lower monitor number than that are Aikman (64) and Kelly (59). Point is, the stats say Matt Ryan had the 4th-most-HOF-worthy career of any QB not currently in the hall of fame, behind only Brady, Rodgers and Brees. That might come to mean something, as the years roll on and the narratives (and that one game) cease holding as much sway in our minds.

* ...that's right, John Elway was MVP in 1987 but was 2nd-team all-pro, go figure. So was McNair in 2003.
** senior-committee eligible, i.e. 25+ years since playing career ended. Also note that we have lists of semifinalists only 2004-present, and the full nominated list only 2012-present; prior to 2004 we only know finalists.
 
Last edited:

mwonow

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Hmmm... never having seen him on TV, let me consider Ken Anderson's case.

A 16-year career, all for the same team, 13 of which were as the primary starter at QB, in an era when the defense could take cheap shot after cheap shot almost without penalty. Plus one MVP, 2 all-pros, 4 pro bowls, 198 games played, 160 AV (120 weighted). 4 playoff appearances, one of which (his MVP year) was a run to the Super Bowl. Yeah, there are probably worse QB careers that have been elected to the Hall of Fame.

Of the 29 QBs in the HOF, Anderson's 32848 passing yards would rank 14th, his 206 TDs would rank 17th, and among the 17 HOF QBs who played entirely 1960+ and thus have full AV numbers, Anderson's 120 weighted AV would rank 10th, ahead of Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Kurt Warner, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Bob Griese, and Roger Staubach. 15 of the 29 have fewer than his 13 years as a starter, his 4 Pro Bowls exceeds Terry Bradshaw's 3 and equals 3 others', and 13 have either 0 or 1 years as 1st-team All-Pro (Anderson has that 1 year) - even Elway, Moon, Staubach and Aikman each had zero*.

On the career AV leaderboard, the highest AVs of eligible people who are not yet in the HOF are:

28. DE Jim "wrong way" Marshall**, 168
46. QB Ken Anderson**, 160 (finalist 1996, 1998, semifinalist 2023)
54. C Jeff Saturday, 156 (4x nominated 2020-2023)
59. WR Reggie Wayne, 153 (finalist 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023)
77. QB John Hadl**, 146
80. G Jahri Evans, 145 (semifinalist 2023, in 1st year eligible)
83. DT Ron McDole**, 144
83. OT Jim Tyrer**, 144 (finalist 1981)
86. OT Lomas Brown**, 143
94. QB Carson Palmer, 141
94. QB Vinny Testaverde, 141 (1x nominated 2016)
100. QB Drew Bledsoe, 139 (6x nominated 2012-2021)
100. OT Mike Kenn**, 139 (semifinalist 2015, 2016, 2017)

Bold = PFR HOF Monitor score is above that of average HOFers at their position.

... and among the other MVP winners:
116. QB Boomer Esiason, 137. 1x AP1, 4x PB, 12x Starter, 3-2 in Playoffs (2 yrs)
150. QB Roman Gabriel, 130. 1x AP1, 4x PB, 11x Starter, 0-2 in Playoffs (2 yrs)
155. QB John Brodie, 129. 1x AP1 (3x MVP candidate), 2x PB, 11x Starter, 2-3 in Playoffs (3 yrs)
181. QB Steve McNair, 125. 0x AP1, 3x PB, 10x Starter, 5-5 in Playoffs (5 yrs) - 9x nominated 2013-2023
236. QB Rich Gannon, 118. 2x AP1, 4x PB, 8x Starter, 4-3 in Playoffs (6 yrs) - 2x nominated 2015 + 2018

(and N.B.: 11. Philip Rivers, 218 AV. I think he's getting in, eventually.)

Anderson is the highest-AV eligible QB who isn't in the HOF, and I think the above makes the case that he'd be a pretty solid choice and probably deserves it. That he ran into the 49ers' buzzsaw in the pre-salary-cap era is not really a black mark on him. He is of course **senior committee eligible, and was twice a modern-era finalist (1996 and 1998), so if the senior committee is going to nominate and then elect the likes of Ken Stabler, I think it's only a matter of time before Anderson follows him.

The only other MVP winner on that list who should probably be in the conversation for election imo is Earl Morrall**, who won 3 rings with 2 different teams (at ages 36, 38 and 39; twice getting playoff games incl the 1970 Super Bowl in relief of Unitas and starting both AFC playoff games for the undefeated 1972 Dolphins), in a 21-year career that spanned many eras. I can't even make a squinting case for any of the others. There's a long list of probably-deserving candidates who don't even make the semifinalist list (Steve Wisniewski, anyone?), so hard to see how any of the other MVP winners ever really get seriously considered.

Final note: Avg PFR HOFm score for QB HOFers is 108, only exceeded (by not-yet-HOFers) by Brady, Rodgers and Brees. However, just under that mark is indeed Matt Ryan at 106, followed by Roethlisberger at 100 and Rivers at 98. Leaving aside Mahomes, Wilson and Stafford (active), the next-up retired QB is Eli Manning at 85, but Ken Anderson follows with an 83. Boomer (68) and Theismann (66) are a lot farther from the standard. The only HOF QBs with a lower monitor number than that are Aikman (64) and Kelly (59). Point is, the stats say Matt Ryan had the 4th-most-HOF-worthy career of any QB not currently in the hall of fame, behind only Brady, Rodgers and Brees. That might come to mean something, as the years roll on and the narratives (and that one game) cease holding as much sway in our minds.

* ...that's right, John Elway was MVP in 1987 but was 2nd-team all-pro, go figure. So was McNair in 2003.
** senior-committee eligible, i.e. 25+ years since playing career ended. Also note that we have lists of semifinalists only 2004-present, and the full nominated list only 2012-present; prior to 2004 we only know finalists.
Thanks for this - it's really interesting! Glad to see Anderson was as good as I remembered. And fwiw, my memories of Morrall are pretty dim, but I recall him only as a backup, for Unitas with the Colts and Griese with the Fins - HOF QBs of course, but "I backed up guys who were better than me" shouldn't give Morrall a ticket to Canton.
 

Shelterdog

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Just to make one small point, until this society has a different views of murder-suicides, Jim Tyrer-possibly the best player who isn't in the hall--isn't getting in the hall of fame.
 

InstaFace

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ah, yes, that would affect things a bit. I knew nothing of him other than the name and stats popping up. I guess his finalist status in 1981 must've been voted on the prior fall, maybe just before that all went down.

Either way, Reggie Wayne seems to be one of the safest bets to get in in the next year or so, aside from the usual couple of first-ballot-locks per year.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
62,370
New York City
Ryan compares favorably to Eli statistically (including in the postseason). He also has a league MVP, whereas Eli never received a single MVP vote. Both players had incredible durability. Eli had two memorable Super Bowl 4th quarters, is a Manning, and played in NY, so he will get in and Ryan won’t.

But I think neither or both should get in, personally.
Swap the SB victories, with Ryan with 2 and Eli with 0 and Eli doesn't get in and Ryan does.

But, yes, neither should be in.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,386
CA
Just to make one small point, until this society has a different views of murder-suicides, Jim Tyrer-possibly the best player who isn't in the hall--isn't getting in the hall of fame.
I had never heard of him. There is apparently a documentary out fairly recently “A Good Man, the Jim Tyrer Story” that the events to CTE. Feels icky (haven’t seen it).