No Town Hall this year at Red Sox Winter Weekend

[simplicio]

I always say that my baseline expectation for the Sox each season is that they’re plausibly in the playoff race through Labor Day Weekend. The past 2 season they were 14.5 games back of the division on Labor Day. 2020 they were 12.5 back. 2019 they were 16 games back.

The common thread there is broken pitching. I don't think it's a coincidence that 2021 is the one year of the last five we've had a group of reliable starters. Is some of that on management? Sure, DD has to wear the Sale extension, and Bloom picking up 1 year deals from the bargain bin was always going to present risk. But there's also been some truly terrible, snowballing luck along the way, and when things go that bad, in a division with hitters as good as the AL East's, you aren't going anywhere.

I think a new pitching-focused management can improve that area of weakness throughout the org, but if we have a third straight year of line drives snapping the bones of our starters, another labor day disappointment may be in the cards.

 

[Rovin Romine]

I think a new pitching-focused management can improve that area of weakness throughout the org, but if we have a third straight year of line drives snapping the bones of our starters, another labor day disappointment may be in the cards.

Along with post-hoc and confirmation-bias reasoning.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Is the choice really between holding this event and getting an ear beating from Murph and Sully and not holding it at all? A multi-billion dollar organization can't filter out the riff-raff and run a sanitized event where kids and grandmas lob them softballs? Shit canning the whole event seems like a lesson in the Streisand effect. I have no idea what's going on over there these days, but this ownership group appears to have lost its fastball.

 

[JCizzle]

You're also trading a $700,000 hit against the CBT limits for a $10 million one, or whatever the AAV of the new contract turns out to be.

However, the longer you wait, that $10M hit goes from the hypothetical 10 this year, to 15, to 25, etc. as the player gets closer and closer to FA. I’d rather lock in that lower number now, especially when the team has the financial space to do so with their current payroll.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

I can understand the Sox cancelling this. There is a loud, belligerent, and frankly I think ultimately small but hyper-active contingent of the fan base that is just poisoning any discussion about the team. They're not adding anything, they're just using the Sox as a punching bag. There's no way this event would be anything other than an opportunity for a bunch of jerks to hijacking it for performative rage.

 

[Ale Xander]

Do other teams do this kind of thing?

Midwest does stuff, that's a lot better than what the Red Sox do

Cubs
https://www.mlb.com/cubs/fans/cubs-convention
Royals:
https://www.mlb.com/royals/fans/royals-rally
Cardinals
https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/fans/winter-warm-up/autograph-tickets
https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/community/caravan

Edit: SF Giants also do a Town Hall for sure.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I can understand the Sox cancelling this. There is a loud, belligerent, and frankly I think ultimately small but hyper-active contingent of the fan base that is just poisoning any discussion about the team. They're not adding anything, they're just using the Sox as a punching bag. There's no way this event would be anything other than an opportunity for a bunch of jerks to hijacking it for performative rage.

You’re ok with preventing well-meaning fans from an opportunity to ask questions because some loudmouths will be annoying? Why can’t security remove anyone who’s being truly disruptive? And if someone is asking a performative gotcha question, then the guys on the stage should be able to deal with it.

I’m asking as someone who only saw a few clips last year. Would be curious to know just truly how bad it was.

 

[jbupstate]

You’re ok with preventing well-meaning fans from an opportunity to ask questions because some loudmouths will be annoying? Why can’t security remove anyone who’s being truly disruptive? And if someone is asking a performative gotcha question, then the guys on the stage should be able to deal with it.

I’m asking as someone who only saw a few clips last year. Would be curious to know just truly how bad it was.

In what realm of business does senior management get heckled by a group disruptive investors, vendors or employees?

If you think you need security or to remove people, you call it off. Nobody worth their salt should put their people in such a position.

As a well meaning “fan”, I wouldn’t want to have to sit through that type of nonsense. If someone want to protest, have at it. Picket Fenway, write an open letter, organize at boycott. What gives anyone the right to openly ridicule someone in a public forum?

End of day FSG doesn’t owe me anything. I’m the one with the choice to make.

 

[Mike473]

You’re ok with preventing well-meaning fans from an opportunity to ask questions because some loudmouths will be annoying? Why can’t security remove anyone who’s being truly disruptive? And if someone is asking a performative gotcha question, then the guys on the stage should be able to deal with it.

I’m asking as someone who only saw a few clips last year. Would be curious to know just truly how bad it was.

It was just noise. That doesn't bother them. They are avoiding it because they have nothing to say.

 

[BigSoxFan]

In what realm of business does senior management get heckled by a group disruptive investors, vendors or employees?

If you think you need security or to remove people, you call it off. Nobody worth their salt should put their people in such a position.

As a well meaning “fan”, I wouldn’t want to have to sit through that type of nonsense. If someone want to protest, have at it. Picket Fenway, write an open letter, organize at boycott. What gives anyone the right to openly ridicule someone in a public forum?

End of day FSG doesn’t owe me anything. I’m the one with the choice to make.

I don’t condone anybody doing stuff like that. I was merely asking just how bad it was. For an ownership group that appears to struggle to connect and properly message with fans, I think the pros probably outweigh the cons here and I would actually give them a lot of credit for standing up there and taking some crap. If people are screaming and not letting the speakers speak, then that’s a different story because nobody benefits from a scene like that. But, if it’s 10 people asking legitimate questions and a few being annoying, I don’t really see the harm.

In any event, it’s not a big deal anyways, even moreso with the Patriots news.

 

[Auger34]

Is the choice really between holding this event and getting an ear beating from Murph and Sully and not holding it at all? A multi-billion dollar organization can't filter out the riff-raff and run a sanitized event where kids and grandmas lob them softballs? Shit canning the whole event seems like a lesson in the Streisand effect. I have no idea what's going on over there these days, but this ownership group appears to have lost its fastball.

Bingo.

I don’t begrudge FSG for not wanting to do this. Not because of fear of violence, a mob breaking out or some of the other nonsense I’ve read on this thread but because no one likes to be booed in a public forum. I imagine it’s embarrassing and the optics are bad

However, if this was important to FSG or if FSG truly wanted to speak to fans in a town hall setting, it would be incredibly easy for them to do so. Beefed up security, don’t allow fans to bring drinks into the town hall, no phones. The portion of people who are acting like a ruckus was bound to happen no matter what or that FSG had no choice but to cancel are being ridiculous.

 

[grepal]

I think you might be mistaking anger for frustration. I’m not angry at John Henry, I’ve read enough baseball history to realize that this is what owners do.

What’s most frustrating is that at one point the Red Sox sat at the cool table with the rich kids. Now they don’t and I’m not sure anyone knows why. I don’t expect John Henry to come out and admit exactly why the Sox have pulled back but it would be nice if he gave some sort of idea where this was going.

What in the last few years has made Henry and by extension the Red Sox acting like John Henry and the Red Sox?

In the last few months, I’ve come to the conclusion that the Red Sox are what they are now and I’m trying to figure out the best way to watch the team. It’s not as easy as it used to be, I grew accustomed to watching stars. Rooting for a team that had a deep 1-9 lineup and always had an ace.

Things aren’t like that any more and it’s going to take time for everyone to come around to this new reality. But not only is that frustrating, it’s also frustrating that despite a seemingly very healthy franchise, the money spigot just stopped.

I think that you’re seeing a combination of confusion, frustration and growing pains. Sometimes that looks like anger, and maybe it is, but I don’t think it’s “let’s tear Fenway the fuck down” anger, it’s more like “you’re charging us $15 for a Bud Light and you’re making us watch this shit” annoyance.

For me the /value of the entertainment is a key. I enjoy watching good baseball. I have felt that the cost of doing so live at Fenway was getting rather high. The past couple of seasons the quality of the baseball I watched has not been very good and at times it has been poor. That being said I was happy to hear we would be going full throttle this off season. IMO the results of this off season have been disheartening so far. No improvement defensively and perhaps even a downgrade. Dugie for all his faults was an excellent right fielder. It remains to be seen if the former gold glove left fielder we replaced him with is his equal. I watched Grissom in Atlanta on TV and once live. I hope he can handle second base but I have a lot of doubts about that. Abreu in the outfield scares me. He caught balls but his routes to balls was often shaky. Maybe playing in a shallow left field for 81 games will help. To Date two starters gone, I don't include Kluber which would make it three and only one added. If anything our shortcomings appear to be exacerbated in the pitching and possibly the defensive areas. We have not replaced Duvall and Turners right handed power production. Maybe we add Soler, maybe not. We certainly are not winning a good share of our free agency targets battles. Personally I find myself unwilling to support the Sox financially at the price point it takes these past few years. Driving up from western, CT tickets, parking, food and drink, it costs a lot and I often find myself driving home disappointed in the overall product I just watched. I am hoping the youngsters pan out and we pay to keep them in Boston.

 

[Traut]

The problem for FSG isn't canceling the Town Hall.

The problems are absentee ownership and complete lack of vision communicated to the fans. FSG's vision is only revealed through their actions - and that is to acquire mid-level talent to plug holes and hope they hit in the draft.

It's a hard sell when you are charging top dollar for tickets and NESN. But I think some honesty would go along way. Let us believe there's some plan in place to set up another run.

Instead they leak half ass efforts at high dollar free agents to give hope they are going to start acting like a top dollar club.

The result is a giant self-inflicted PR disaster for them.

The Town Hall isn't the answer so I don't blame them for that. But a real press conference or some long form interviews with John Henry would go a long way.

 

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

The lack of any communication or contact with the fanbase by FSG and John Henry is giving the look that they know their customers are mad, but they just don't care. Contrast FSG with Bob Kraft's message after the P:at's were eliminated.

Robert Kraft Sent This Strong Message To Patriots Fans After Elimination (nesn.com)

 

[astrozombie]

The lack of any communication or contact with the fanbase by FSG and John Henry is giving the look that they know their customers are mad, but they just don't care. Contrast FSG with Bob Kraft's message after the P:at's were eliminated.

Robert Kraft Sent This Strong Message To Patriots Fans After Elimination (nesn.com)

This. I am a semi-lapsed Sox fan and I don't actually care whether FSG does a town hall or anything else. But they seem like they are content with people just showing up and spending money irrespective of the product on the field and the fact that they don't feel the need to say anything makes it *seem* like they have no idea how mad people are (despite hearing boos last year) or care. Which, fine. They don't seem to care, neither will I.
Contrast with the Pats, who even after letting BB go - something about which I have mixed emotions, given that I thought it was for the best to the point of advocating for it and still felt incredibly sad when it happened - at least *seem* to want to improve and get better. I'll be way more interested in the Pats season of growing pains with a likely rookie QB and first time head coach than the Sox and year 5 of the "if everything breaks perfectly, maybe we can get into the playoffs" model.

 

[Rovin Romine]

The lack of any communication or contact with the fanbase by FSG and John Henry is giving the look that they know their customers are mad, but they just don't care. Contrast FSG with Bob Kraft's message after the P:at's were eliminated.

Robert Kraft Sent This Strong Message To Patriots Fans After Elimination (nesn.com)

Didn't they spend significant time rolling out Breslow and explaining their vision for the off-season?

I really don't care much about press conferences and the like so they're not hugely on my radar, but they did do them, didn't they?

 

[HfxBob]

Didn't they spend significant time rolling out Breslow and explaining their vision for the off-season?

Yes, that was when Werner made his "full throttle" comment.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Yes, that was when Werner made his "full throttle" comment.

For some, the only comment that was made, it appears.

 

[Ale Xander]

For some, the only comment that was made, it appears.

What else was said?

 

[OCD SS]

For some, the only comment that was made, it appears.

It’s the only comment made by ownership about an area of concern that affects the team’s competitive chances and has been more limited recently in than in the past, and which following that equivocal statement, to the present at least, has seemed to be untrue.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Guess it was a 5 second presser then?

 

[CR67dream]

What else was said?

I think that's the point. It was Charlie Brown teacher speak to many, it seems. Classic cherry picking.

 

[8slim]

The FO has been speaking in generic platitudes for several years now. It doesn’t matter that they say.

All that people care about at this point are actions. And the actions this off-season to-date have been underwhelming, to put it mildly.

If all we see from now until April is a few more moves that nibble at the edges then it’s clear the FO doesn’t intend to compete in 2024. Hence the on going frustration.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Guess it was a 5 second presser then?

No. It wasn't. These quotes are all from Breslow's first press conference:

“We know that we have to be competitive next year,” said Red Sox chairman Tom Werner. “We're going to be competitive next year. You know that we're going to have to be full throttle in every possible way.”

Asked specifically if the Red Sox will pursue high-end starting pitchers on the free agent market, Werner responded: “Let me just say that we don’t have any built-in restrictions.”

“What I will say is that some years we’ve been below the CBT (competitive balance tax), some years we’ve been above the CBT,” said Werner. “It is important for us to make decisions that will not be just effective in 2024, but past 2024. So those are the decisions that will drive us. I think the inconsistency that we’ve had can be helped a lot by, as Craig said, making decisions that include going after expensive free agents but it’s just as important to develop a minor league system that produces the kind of talent that makes you consistently win.” (Emphasis mine -- and I undestand that he said that BOTH things are important.)

“I don’t see financial resources as a limiting factor,” said Breslow. “I think that was something that was clear in the conversations that we had. Obviously, I think we have to line up a number of variables there. Interest and fit among two of them. The refrain I will keep hammering in these conversations is that there is a relentless interest in winning from all parties.”

""The goal here, the goal anywhere is not to build the most competitive minor league team. It's to build major league value and major league contributors. And then we ended up needing to kind of create an overarching philosophy behind that goal and find competent, skilled coaches who are able to execute." - Breslow.

Yeah, it's so weird that people would get the idea that the Sox would spend this year.

 

[Rovin Romine]

No. It wasn't. These quotes are all from Breslow's first press conference:

“We know that we have to be competitive next year,” said Red Sox chairman Tom Werner. “We're going to be competitive next year. You know that we're going to have to be full throttle in every possible way.”

Asked specifically if the Red Sox will pursue high-end starting pitchers on the free agent market, Werner responded: “Let me just say that we don’t have any built-in restrictions.”

“What I will say is that some years we’ve been below the CBT (competitive balance tax), some years we’ve been above the CBT,” said Werner. “It is important for us to make decisions that will not be just effective in 2024, but past 2024. So those are the decisions that will drive us. I think the inconsistency that we’ve had can be helped a lot by, as Craig said, making decisions that include going after expensive free agents but it’s just as important to develop a minor league system that produces the kind of talent that makes you consistently win.” (Emphasis mine -- and I undestand that he said that BOTH things are important.)

“I don’t see financial resources as a limiting factor,” said Breslow. “I think that was something that was clear in the conversations that we had. Obviously, I think we have to line up a number of variables there. Interest and fit among two of them. The refrain I will keep hammering in these conversations is that there is a relentless interest in winning from all parties.”

""The goal here, the goal anywhere is not to build the most competitive minor league team. It's to build major league value and major league contributors. And then we ended up needing to kind of create an overarching philosophy behind that goal and find competent, skilled coaches who are able to execute." - Breslow.

Yeah, it's so weird that people would get the idea that the Sox would spend this year.

Right. . .so stuff like this:

The lack of any communication or contact with the fanbase by FSG and John Henry is giving the look that they know their customers are mad, but they just don't care.

The problems are absentee ownership and complete lack of vision communicated to the fans. . . But a real press conference or some long form interviews with John Henry would go a long way.

It’s the only comment made by ownership about an area of concern that affects the team’s competitive chances and has been more limited recently in than in the past, and which following that equivocal statement, to the present at least, has seemed to be untrue.

wouldn't really be accurate at all, would it? That's the only point.

Of course, anyone is free to think they're full of spin and deflection, as most pressers usually are. But I'm glad you had the wherewithal to actually examine what they said. Because they did say something.

 

[jbupstate]

Here’s a question.

What could “Full Throttle” mean?

- Spend without budget considerations (potentially recklessly) on free agents.

- Stick to the plan (what plan?) of developing prospects and allowing current players (Bello, Casas, Duran, Wink, etc) to learn/grow on the job.

- Smartly supplement roster with good character, seasoned players on short term, contracts (Turner, Jansen, Duvall) while we wait (hope) for high rated prospects to mature.

I took that comment as go for it (pay serious premium) with Yamamoto. Make a needle moving trade for SP. YY had other thoughts and nothing we could do about it. Still time for trade.

* Yamamoto would have checked a bunch of boxes due to age and talent. But a lot of these other free agents have warning signs and would need to grouped to move the needle at an expensive cost… still to finish on the playoff bubble.

** I only blame FSG for mandating that Bloom reset payroll, build farm and compete for playoffs. Even they might admit they should have sold parts for future potential. A season with 70 wins might have been the bottoming out.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Right. . .so stuff like this:





wouldn't really be accurate at all, would it? That's the only point.

Of course, anyone is free to think they're full of spin and deflection, as most pressers usually are. But I'm glad you had the wherewithal to actually examine what they said. Because they did say something.

That wasn't your initial point. You said, "Guess it was a 5 second presser then?" insinuating that the only thing that people remember is the "full throttle" comment and that it was but a small part of a bigger point. It wasn't. Warner and Breslow were saying that the Sox were open for business and that they were do what they could to get better. It's January 12 and you could argue that they're not better.

What you're arguing above is something completely different. You're now saying--I think that this is what you're getting at, but I'm not 100% sure--is that the Sox FO has actually communicated to the fans; which I'd argue they haven't really done. They have an opportunity to clarify what they (Warner and Breslow) meant at the press conference, but they've chosen not to take that opportunity because they think that people will be mean to them this year. Which, okay, no one likes being told that they suck; but it's also would be nice to hear about their thoughts on the off-season and about the 2024 Red Sox.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Here’s a question.

What could “Full Throttle” mean?

- Spend without budget considerations (potentially recklessly) on free agents.

- Stick to the plan (what plan?) of developing prospects and allowing current players (Bello, Casas, Duran, Wink, etc) to learn/grow on the job?

I took that comment as go for it (pay serious premium) with Yamamoto. Make a needle moving trade for SP. YY had other thoughts and nothing we could do about it. Still time for trade.

At some point words lose meaning. All you can rely on are actions and results.

Does it really matter what "Full Throttle" actually means? Regardless of interpretation, those words simply do not match what the Sox have done this off-season or any off-season in a while now. "Stay In Our Lane" doesn't quite pop the same as "Full Throttle" though.

 

[CR67dream]

That wasn't your initial point. You said, "Guess it was a 5 second presser then?" insinuating that the only thing that people remember is the "full throttle" comment and that it was but a small part of a bigger point. It wasn't. Warner and Breslow were saying that the Sox were open for business and that they were do what they could to get better. It's January 12 and you could argue that they're not better.

What you're arguing above is something completely different. You're now saying--I think that this is what you're getting at, but I'm not 100% sure--is that the Sox FO has actually communicated to the fans; which I'd argue they haven't really done. They have an opportunity to clarify what they (Warner and Breslow) meant at the press conference, but they've chosen not to take that opportunity because they think that people will be mean to them this year. Which, okay, no one likes being told that they suck; but it's also would be nice to hear about their thoughts on the off-season and about the 2024 Red Sox.

All I get out of RR's post is that he's pointing out that the Sox said a lot more than the "full throttle" comment in the presser, and lots of folks latched on to that as a mantra at the expense of a deeper look.

He also said it was fine if people see what they actually did say as spin, but was just asking folks to acknowledge that they did say a hell of a lot more, a lot of it that some could read as a positive.

That's really all I'm seeing.

 

[jbupstate]

At some point words lose meaning. All you can rely on are actions and results.

Does it really matter what "Full Throttle" actually means? Regardless of interpretation, those words simply do not match what the Sox have done this off-season or any off-season in a while now. "Stay In Our Lane" doesn't quite pop the same as "Full Throttle" though.

Spin sometime puts out a bad message. The second I hear Full Throttle I knew it was a mistake. Crazy they could see that.

They should have said … more of the same, build up our prospects to see what we have, spend wisely during this transition period and have position ourselves to jump on a transaction that accelerates improvement of club.

 

[Rovin Romine]

That wasn't your initial point. You said, "Guess it was a 5 second presser then?" insinuating that the only thing that people remember is the "full throttle" comment and that it was but a small part of a bigger point. It wasn't. Warner and Breslow were saying that the Sox were open for business and that they were do what they could to get better. It's January 12 and you could argue that they're not better.

What you're arguing above is something completely different. You're now saying--I think that this is what you're getting at, but I'm not 100% sure--is that the Sox FO has actually communicated to the fans; which I'd argue they haven't really done. They have an opportunity to clarify what they (Warner and Breslow) meant at the press conference, but they've chosen not to take that opportunity because they think that people will be mean to them this year. Which, okay, no one likes being told that they suck; but it's also would be nice to hear about their thoughts on the off-season and about the 2024 Red Sox.

It's not a long thread. People were saying there hadn't been communication and that press conferences would help.

Read back further for two posts:

Didn't they spend significant time rolling out Breslow and explaining their vision for the off-season?

I really don't care much about press conferences and the like so they're not hugely on my radar, but they did do them, didn't they?

That was the initial point. That they had, in fact, had press conferences. They said what they said. They didn't just say "full throttle" without context. They actually communicated to the fans.

You're welcome to think their comments were just hot air, and more than welcome to hold them accountable.

But let's not pretend the fan-fest-dohickey cancellation was some kind of massive inflection point or some desperate destruction of some venerable tradition of yore.

They have an opportunity to clarify every single day. They have an opportunity to address these things with each trade or singing announcement or presser. If anyone thinks that's inadequate, that's really the argument that should be being made.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Spin sometime puts out a bad message. The second I hear Full Throttle I knew it was a mistake. Crazy they could see that.

They should have said … more of the same, build up our prospects to see what we have, spend wisely during this transition period and have position ourselves to jump on a transaction that accelerates improvement of club.

I'm no PR person but from my perspective the royal *we* aren't as negative on the team as some people are saying - had they taken that approach you might still have impatient fans but most would be onboard. This club gets an incredible amount of goodwill from its fanbase.

However they chose that language. That it created unrealistic expectations is way more on FSG than the fans.

 

[OCD SS]

Right. . .so stuff like this:

wouldn't really be accurate at all, would it? That's the only point.

At least for my post, I think it’s entirely accurate. If you’re looking at JMOH’s compilation, “full throttle” is a short hand for an aggressive plan to add talent that includes significant spending. This has not been the approach the past couple years.

No one is suggesting that a hose 2 words were all that was said, and it’s disingenuous for you to call people out for not responding with nuanced precision to your own snarky on-liner.

 

[OCD SS]

… He also said it was fine if people see what they actually did say as spin, but was just asking folks to acknowledge that they did say a hell of a lot more, a lot of it that some could read as a positive.

I think most of us remember the full context of what was said and that’s why we’re pushing back on it as (so far) a lot of hot air.

Could they turn it around? Of course. But right now we’re looking at what they’ve done and measuring it against the reporting we’re getting, and it’s only positive if they actually do the thing.

 

[CR67dream]

I think most of us remember the full context of what was said and that’s why we’re pushing back on it as (so far) a lot of hot air.

Could they turn it around? Of course. But right now we’re looking at what they’ve done and measuring it against the reporting we’re getting, and it’s only positive if they actually do the thing.

I legit had not yet seen all of the things they had said in the presser, but I read it here and felt a little better about things, so I'm glad it was posted and I saw the full context. YMMV.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone who thinks it's just more smoke up their ass. They just said more than I thought based on what I had read here, that's all.

Werner should just keep his fucking trap shut. So stupid.

 

[Rovin Romine]

No one is suggesting that a hose 2 words were all that was said, and it’s disingenuous for you to call people out for not responding with nuanced precision to your own snarky on-liner.

Then bone up and say, "Yeah that could have been better worded on my part." Because, far from merely suggesting, you expressly said exactly that.

It’s the only comment made by ownership about an area of concern that affects the team’s competitive chances and has been more limited recently in than in the past, and which following that equivocal statement, to the present at least, has seemed to be untrue.

It's like the Streisand effect is in full force these days.

 

[OCD SS]

Then bone up and say, "Yeah that could have been better worded on my part." Because, far from merely suggesting, you expressly said exactly that.

It's like the Streisand effect is in full force these days.

I give most people here enough credit that they don’t need to have only the exact sentence or line quoted and responded to as if we’re all filing legal briefs. Since we were discussing the content of Breslow’s introduction I presumed everyone would follow that the “comment” and “statement” I was referring to was the hat press conference. Since (as per the thread topic) that is the only time ownership has spelled out anything about their plan and intended direction for the team, I think it’s reasonable to approach it as one thing.

You seem very willing to nitpick, belittle, and misrepresent posts you don’t agree with while being pretty thin-skinned on behalf of ownership.

 

[CR67dream]

I give most people here enough credit that they don’t need to have only the exact sentence or line quoted and responded to as if we’re all filing legal briefs. Since we were discussing the content of Breslow’s introduction I presumed everyone would follow that the “comment” and “statement” I was referring to was the hat press conference. Since (as per the thread topic) that is the only time ownership has spelled out anything about their plan and intended direction for the team, I think it’s reasonable to approach it as one thing.

You seem very willing to nitpick, belittle, and misrepresent posts you don’t agree with while being pretty thin-skinned on behalf of ownership.

I have no dog in this fight, and I'll stop myself from quoting Rodney King, but I have to say based on how you and others were characterizing the presser, I was expecting a whole lot worse. There were a lot of specifics that give me even more hope that they're clued in to what they need to do.

I respect that others feel differently, and don't care if people think I'm an idiot as long as I'm being honest. And I am sure as hell not in the bag for ownership. It's just better for my mental health if I wait until I'm convinced of something beyond a reasonable doubt before I get all worked up about it. YMMV, and that's just fine too.

 

[strek1]

I figured with a new GM they would have one. Chickens**t ownership I guess.

 

[Cassvt2023]

I figured with a new GM they would have one. Chickens**t ownership I guess.

This group seriously needs someone who is much more PR savvy to speak for them. Between Sam Kennedy's "If you don't want to come to the Red Sox, we don't want you", John Henry's "baseball players are expensive", and Tom Werner's "we're going full throttle", these guys are coming across as completely tone deaf, or worse, bumbling dopes.

 

[CR67dream]

This group seriously needs someone who is much more PR savvy to speak for them. Between Sam Kennedy's "If you don't want to come to the Red Sox, we don't want you", John Henry's "baseball players are expensive", and Tom Werner's "we're going full throttle", these guys are coming across as completely tone deaf, or worse, bumbling dopes.

I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone on that general sentiment.

 

[TonyPenaNeverJuiced]

Regarding ownership and Winter Weekend, got a little clarification. Werner and Kennedy are certain to be there. It’s still uncertain if Henry will be there. There isn’t the same town hall format but Cora and players will be interviewed by Tom Caron and Papelbon.

Yes, Breslow will also be there should have noted that as well

 

[Rovin Romine]

I give most people here enough credit that they don’t need to have only the exact sentence or line quoted and responded to as if we’re all filing legal briefs. Since we were discussing the content of Breslow’s introduction I presumed everyone would follow that the “comment” and “statement” I was referring to was the hat press conference. Since (as per the thread topic) that is the only time ownership has spelled out anything about their plan and intended direction for the team, I think it’s reasonable to approach it as one thing.

You seem very willing to nitpick, belittle, and misrepresent posts you don’t agree with while being pretty thin-skinned on behalf of ownership.

You should quit digging; I am not doing anything "on behalf of ownership."

But "ownership" did not only say "full steam ahead" - they identified weaknesses and laid out a plan. You don't have to be an attorney to open your ears and listen. You just have to be an adult - and no, I'm not "belittling" you to hold you to that standard. Quite the opposite in fact.

Go hold them to it if you think they've misrepresented something or have failed.

 

[Auger34]

I have no dog in this fight, and I'll stop myself from quoting Rodney King, but I have to say based on how you and others were characterizing the presser, I was expecting a whole lot worse. There were a lot of specifics that give me even more hope that they're clued in to what they need to do.

I respect that others feel differently, and don't care if people think I'm an idiot as long as I'm being honest. And I am sure as hell not in the bag for ownership. It's just better for my mental health if I wait until I'm convinced of something beyond a reasonable doubt before I get all worked up about it. YMMV, and that's just fine too.

EDIT: NVM. I think both sides of this have been hashed out to the nth degree, I am not really adding anything here

 

[CR67dream]

Sure!

“We know that we have to be competitive next year,” said Red Sox chairman Tom Werner. “We're going to be competitive next year. You know that we're going to have to be full throttle in every possible way

If only he had just left out full throttle.... What an unnecessary mistake.

“Let me just say that we don’t have any built-in restrictions.”

Sounds good to me.

“It is important for us to make decisions that will not be just effective in 2024, but past 2024. So those are the decisions that will drive us. I think the inconsistency that we’ve had can be helped a lot by, as Craig said, making decisions that include going after expensive free agents but it’s just as important to develop a minor league system that produces the kind of talent that makes you consistently win.”

I know people think I'm foolish, but it's not over yet.

“I don’t see financial resources as a limiting factor,” said Breslow. “I think that was something that was clear in the conversations that we had. Obviously, I think we have to line up a number of variables there. Interest and fit among two of them. The refrain I will keep hammering in these conversations is that there is a relentless interest in winning from all parties.”

Keep talking!

""The goal here, the goal anywhere is not to build the most competitive minor league team. It's to build major league value and major league contributors. And then we ended up needing to kind of create an overarching philosophy behind that goal and find competent, skilled coaches who are able to execute." - Breslow.

It's OK if people think it's BS, and I get why. I just don't share that level of angst yet. And what's wrong with a healthy disagreement? EDIT: This place was kind of built on that.

 

[JCizzle]

If only he had just left out full throttle.... What an unnecessary mistake.

Do you consider this team, as currently constructed, to be “competitive” next year even minus the full throttle comment? I don’t at this stage, unless ownership meant for a last in wild card team. There’s two guys left that can definitively change that, but I’m not sure I even want them to make that leap!

 

[CR67dream]

Do you consider this team, as currently constructed, to be “competitive” next year even minus the full throttle comment? I don’t at this stage, unless ownership meant for a last in wild card team.

Am I not being clear? Fuck no. I just don't think they're done yet. If they are, I'll be as pissed as anyone. If people want to assume the worst now, that's fine with me. Just not the way I'm wired.

There's good nuggets there. Breslow says straight out that interest and fit are variables with free agents. To me that answers some questions. They said flat out they are implementing an overarching philosophy and will bring in the right people. Bailey is an example of that, no?

Anyway, how anyone could look at what I've been saying as any huge endorsement of FSG is beyond me. I'm just not ready to throw in the towel yet.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Anyway, how anyone could look at what I've been saying as any huge endorsement of FSG is beyond me. I'm just not ready to throw in the towel yet.

All you are saying. . .is give Craig a chance?

 

[CR67dream]

All you are saying. . .is give Craig a chance?

Kinda, but more Iike "I'll give Craig a chance", and here's why.

 

[OCD SS]

I have no dog in this fight, and I'll stop myself from quoting Rodney King, but I have to say based on how you and others were characterizing the presser, I was expecting a whole lot worse. There were a lot of specifics that give me even more hope that they're clued in to what they need to do.

I respect that others feel differently, and don't care if people think I'm an idiot as long as I'm being honest. And I am sure as hell not in the bag for ownership. It's just better for my mental health if I wait until I'm convinced of something beyond a reasonable doubt before I get all worked up about it. YMMV, and that's just fine too.

I think we’re actually rather close… What I find frustrating is the disconnect between the promise of ownership apparently understanding what they need to do and having a solid approach and then upping the degree of difficulty by not spending for short-term improvement in an area of need. It doesn’t rise to the level of angst, but at this point we’re looking at diminishing options. Laying out a great plan only matters if you actually follow through on it.