Pats QB Options

[Cellar-Door]

Green Bay has really been sneakily terribly run recently.

They had ONE player from the 2020 draft play a single play in the post-season (it was Dillard).
I mean, you have a 36 year old MVP quality QB, you went to the NFC title game, and your draft strategy is.....
Trade up for a QB
Draft a backup RB
Don't sign any impact FAs.

Just terrible work.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Doesn’t anyone recall the hullabaloo over GB picking a QB in the first round and Rodgers being all chuffed?

Right, and taking the ball out of his hands to kick that late field goal might have been the last straw.

 

[DJnVa]

I agree with these guys

Like it matters!

 

[Three10toLeft]

I would imagine the god awful decision to bring Patricia back in to the fold will preclude us from even being a team Stafford would entertain the idea of playing for. So I suppose it’s either upgrade via the draft or bust for the Pats.

 

[DJnVa]

I would imagine the god awful decision to bring Patricia back in to the fold

Show your work.

 

[Three10toLeft]

Show your work.

Up until just now I thought the story about Patricia having a twitter burner account, one that disparaged Stafford, was true. But it looks like that was proven to be false. Regardless there are other stories referencing an icy relationship between Patricia and Stafford. Since MP won't be the head coach in New England, it might not be as bad as I originally thought. But it also seems like Stafford wouldn't be a fan of the coaching style that Patricia embodied and probably obviously learned from Bill.

Q: I keep hearing how Stafford had a strained relationship with Patricia early on - what caused that strain with Stafford specifically and how did Bevell help mend it? -- @CammmmFryzel

A: Matt Patricia was hard on players, especially that first season. He was viewed as combative, dismissive, condescending. I wasn’t in those rooms obviously, but those are the words I’ve heard from multiple guys who were there. Patricia talked down to players, went after them for mistakes, on the field as well as in some legendary meetings. The worse they played, the worse those meetings got for everyone.

Nobody was spared. Not even Matthew Stafford. The veteran, franchise quarterback wasn’t a fan of Patricia’s talking-down style, according to multiple sources in a position to know. I believe there is more to the story, but that’s what I have confirmed and feel comfortable reporting at this time. I don’t think it was a toxic relationship at any point, but there was tension between the coach and his quarterback, period.

Link to article

 

[joe dokes]

Up until just now I thought the story about Patricia having a twitter burner account, one that disparaged Stafford, was true. But it looks like that was proven to be false. Regardless there are other stories referencing an icy relationship between Patricia and Stafford. Since MP won't be the head coach in New England, it might not be as bad as I originally thought. But it also seems like Stafford wouldn't be a fan of the coaching style that Patricia embodied and probably obviously learned from Bill.

Whether Stafford is worth trying to get is a good question. But if he can't tell the difference between Matt Patricia, HC failure "trying to copy BB," and who is not the HC of the NEP, and BB, not a failure and the actual HC of the NEP, then Stafford should play somewhere else.

 

[Three10toLeft]

Whether Stafford is worth trying to get is a good question. But if he can't tell the difference between Matt Patricia, HC failure "trying to copy BB," and who is not the HC of the NEP, and BB, not a failure and the actual HC of the NEP, then Stafford should play somewhere else.

I agree to an extent. But the cupboard is pretty bare at the moment. So Stafford's internal math of playing for BB is different than many other previous vets whose math included playing for BB WITH Brady. If Stafford didn't care for the Patriots lite experience with Patricia and then sees his best receiving option is probably a washed up Edelman and N'Keal Harry, I wouldn't fault him for passing. All of this is assuming the Patriots even want Stafford.

 

[rodderick]

I agree to an extent. But the cupboard is pretty bare at the moment. So Stafford's internal math of playing for BB is different than many other previous vets whose math included playing for BB WITH Brady. If Stafford didn't care for the Patriots lite experience with Patricia and then sees his best receiving option is probably a washed up Edelman and N'Keal Harry, I wouldn't fault him for passing. All of this is assuming the Patriots even want Stafford.

This is where I think Bill being so willing to stick up for Cam publicly can earn him a lot of goodwill. Of course, it doesn't matter all that much if Jakobi Meyers is his number one receiver.

 

[joe dokes]

I agree to an extent. But the cupboard is pretty bare at the moment. So Stafford's internal math of playing for BB is different than many other previous vets whose math included playing for BB WITH Brady. If Stafford didn't care for the Patriots lite experience with Patricia and then sees his best receiving option is probably a washed up Edelman and N'Keal Harry, I wouldn't fault him for passing. All of this is assuming the Patriots even want Stafford.

I wouldn't fault him for passing on NE at all. My point was that his experience with shitty HC Patricia probably isn't part of his calculus. I think calling Patricia "Patriots-lite" probably oversells Patricia and undersells BB. Ive heard BB described a lot of ways by ex-players. I dont recall ever hearing "combative, dismissive, condescending."

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1353121392129155072


Orlvosky is pretty close friends with Stafford, I don't think he says this unless it is true

 

[joe dokes]

View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1353121392129155072


Orlvosky is pretty close friends with Stafford, I don't think he says this unless it is true

I think he'd say nothing if he actually knew something, as eliminating a suitor isn't good for leverage. I think this is just his opinion, not something he's heard from Stafford. It may be a more reliable opinion if they're close, but it's still a guess.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think he'd say nothing if he actually knew something, as eliminating a suitor isn't good for leverage. I think this is just his opinion, not something he's heard from Stafford. It may be a more reliable opinion if they're close, but it's still a guess.

Does Stafford need leverage? I mean, he's going to have a lot of better situations than NE opting for his services. NE didn't make sense as a place he'd want to go in the first place.

 

[Average Game James]

Does Stafford need leverage? I mean, he's going to have a lot of better situations than NE opting for his services. NE didn't make sense as a place he'd want to go in the first place.

Does he even have leverage? As far as I can tell, he doesn't have a no trade clause. I suppose he could threaten to sit out or retire, but if a team offers the best package for him, Detroit has no reason to turn it down just because Stafford prefers to go elsewhere.

 

[joe dokes]

Does he even have leverage? As far as I can tell, he doesn't have a no trade clause. I suppose he could threaten to sit out or retire, but if a team offers the best package for him, Detroit has no reason to turn it down just because Stafford prefers to go elsewhere.

So then what the heck is Orlovsky's point? That the bad vibes would come from Patricia, warning BB off?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Does he even have leverage? As far as I can tell, he doesn't have a no trade clause. I suppose he could threaten to sit out or retire, but if a team offers the best package for him, Detroit has no reason to turn it down just because Stafford prefers to go elsewhere.

Yes? Also a team trading for Stafford likely wants to re-work his deal since he only has 2 years left, and take advantage of spreading the money over more years.
Generally though, the idea that a team would give up the most for Stafford when he doesn't want to play there seems unlikely.

 

[Saints Rest]

Using these rankings from Pro Football Network as a jumping off point, looking at teams needing QBs.

I haven't gone thru the contract status of all, so if someone wants to add that info, it would be appreciated.

Teams who are all set for the immediate future and thus are not a desirable destination for a starting QB and don't need to be devoting any high draft resources toward a QB (12):

• KC
• Buffalo
• Seattle
• Tampa
• Tennessee
• Baltimore
• LA Chargers
• Arizona
• Cleveland
• LA Rams
• Minnesota
• Las Vegas

Teams with established starters whose returns are questionable for one reason or another (7):

• Green Bay
• Houston
• New Orleans
• Detroit
• Indy
• Dallas
• Cinci (Assuming that Burrows isn't ready to start the beginning of the season)

Teams with established starters but who could be interested in upgrades, either immediate (free agency) or long-term (draft) (3):

• Pitt
• Atlanta
• Carolina

Teams with young starters whose path to success have hit bumps in the road, some of whom might be afforded another year (7):

• NYJ
• NYG
• San Fran
• Chicago
• Philly
• Denver
• Miami

Teams who have nothing (3):

• NE
• Jax
• WFT

So on the demand side, you are looking at somewhere between three and fifteen landing spots for established starters or high-end draft picks, with another handful for teams who might be interested in spending some mid-level draft capital (say something in the 25-100 draft slot) on a developmental QB.

On the supply side, you are looking at up 4-8 young wart-riddled starters and 3-4 established vets on the downside of their careers who might be available, plus a few blue-chip, high-priced stars:

Young wart-riddled starters:

• Wentz
• Garopollo
• Jones
• Darnold
• Trubisky
• Teddy B

Established vets on the downside of their careers:

• Matty Ice
• Stafford
• Fitzmagic

Blue-chip, high-priced stars:

• Watson
• Dak
• Rodgers

 

[Three10toLeft]

How does Stafford not have leverage?

No team is going to get in to a bidding war for a player they’re unsure wants to even play for them, regardless of trade clause or not. If it was any other position than QB, I could maybe see it, but even that would still be unlikely.

Also, if there is any franchise that needs an image rehabilitation it’s this Lions organization. Especially after how they’ve handled Calvin Johnson’s sudden retirement. Screwing over Stafford by shipping him off to the highest bidder isn’t going to endear them to future free agents.

 

[Mooch]

Green Bay has really been sneakily terribly run recently.

They had ONE player from the 2020 draft play a single play in the post-season (it was Dillard).
I mean, you have a 36 year old MVP quality QB, you went to the NFC title game, and your draft strategy is.....
Trade up for a QB
Draft a backup RB
Don't sign any impact FAs.

Just terrible work.

One other factor that makes their situation worse: They currently have only 55 players under contract for next season and are projected to be over $30M over the cap. They simply have few options to improve their team this offseason. They will probably lose key free agents like Aaron Jones and will also need to cut some high-priced starters just to get under the number.

 

[BigSoxFan]

One other factor that makes their situation worse: They currently have only 55 players under contract for next season and are projected to be over $30M over the cap. They simply have few options to improve their team this offseason. They will probably lose key free agents like Aaron Jones and will also need to cut some high-priced starters just to get under the number.

And Rodgers allegedly wants a new, market setting contract, which could potentially help the current cap crunch, but would obviously be kicking the can down the road for an eventual cap reckoning. This is a situation worth watching. If Rodgers burns some bridges, a trade to SF would make a lot of sense and SF would likely gladly push all their chips into the center of the table to get him. I bet they would gladly trade 12/43 plus 2022 1st/2nd for Rodgers. Or something like that.

 

[Oppo]

How does Stafford not have leverage?

No team is going to get in to a bidding war for a player they’re unsure wants to even play for them, regardless of trade clause or not. If it was any other position than QB, I could maybe see it, but even that would still be unlikely.

Also, if there is any franchise that needs an image rehabilitation it’s this Lions organization. Especially after how they’ve handled Calvin Johnson’s sudden retirement. Screwing over Stafford by shipping him off to the highest bidder isn’t going to endear them to future free agents.

Money is the largest motivator, players aren’t going to turn down cash because the Lions traded Stafford. Even if Stafford is shipped out, it’ll be to a team in win now mode so not like he’d be relegated to the Jets or Jags.

 

[dynomite]

Money is the largest motivator, players aren’t going to turn down cash because the Lions traded Stafford. Even if Stafford is shipped out, it’ll be to a team in win now mode so not like he’d be relegated to the Jets or Jags.

Sorry if I missed this, but isn't the reporting that Stafford asked to be traded instead of being stuck on a rebuilding Lions roster yet again? If anything doesn't that show the organization is honoring a longtime veterans' request and giving him a fresh start, a little akin to the Bruins and Ray Bourque?

Green Bay has really been sneakily terribly run recently.

They had ONE player from the 2020 draft play a single play in the post-season (it was Dillard).
I mean, you have a 36 year old MVP quality QB, you went to the NFC title game, and your draft strategy is.....
Trade up for a QB
Draft a backup RB
Don't sign any impact FAs.

Just terrible work.

It’s an aside for another thread, but I wonder whether Rodgers’ reputation took a huge hit that we don’t fully appreciate yet. He lost at home to Brady, which means as of today Brady & Rodgers have the same number of NFC Championship game wins. Nevermind the 4th & goal decision, he couldn’t convert 1st/2nd/3rd & goal down by 8 with the game on the line.

Back sort of on topic, it’s wild to remember again the gap between Brady and the mere mortal “great” QBs. Winning 1-2 Super Bowls — hell, getting to 1-2 Super Bowls — is what generally passes for excellence in NFL QBs. There’s obviously no replacing Brady, but it is insanely hard to get to ANY Super Bowl, let alone two... or... an impossibly ridiculous 10.

 

[nighthob]

Does Stafford need leverage? I mean, he's going to have a lot of better situations than NE opting for his services. NE didn't make sense as a place he'd want to go in the first place.

I mean it doesn't make sense for either side as the Patriots have too many holes they'd need to fill to be competitive even with Stafford and a lot fewer picks to fill those holes with.

 

[nighthob]

And Rodgers allegedly wants a new, market setting contract, which could potentially help the current cap crunch, but would obviously be kicking the can down the road for an eventual cap reckoning. This is a situation worth watching. If Rodgers burns some bridges, a trade to SF would make a lot of sense and SF would likely gladly push all their chips into the center of the table to get him. I bet they would gladly trade 12/43 plus 2022 1st/2nd for Rodgers. Or something like that.

This is a deal I could see, Rogers age might mean a 2-4 year window, but they'd absolutely be one of the 4-5 best teams in the NFL with a good QB that can stay on the field. They'd just need to find a taker for JimmyG. Maybe Football United DC would be interested?

 

[LoneWarrior1]

This is a deal I could see, Rogers age might mean a 2-4 year window, but they'd absolutely be one of the 4-5 best teams in the NFL with a good QB that can stay on the field. They'd just need to find a taker for JimmyG. Maybe Football United DC would be interested?

For what it’s worth, Felger reported that J-Stew’s sources strongly suggested that JimmyG was that Pat’s primary target for the offseason.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Stafford's home is for sale, pics

https://www.mlive.com/life/2021/01/inside-matthew-staffords-ritzy-mansion-relisted-for-65m-has-states-largest-infinity-pool.html

 

[Captaincoop]

For what it’s worth, Folgers reported that J-Stew’s sources strongly suggested that JimmyG was that Pat’s primary target for the offseason.

That's what Bedard is saying as well.

 

[Super Nomario]

Jimmy makes sense; the problem is that SF doesn't have a better option yet. Maybe they trade for Stafford or Watson, or maybe they wait things out until the draft, and maybe they don't wind up drafting a guy, or draft a guy like Lance who oughta sit for a year, and they decide to keep Jimmy after all. The Pats might need to strike earlier if they want to make sure they don't wind up grasping at straws last minute like they did last year.

 

[Mooch]

For what it’s worth, Folgers reported that J-Stew’s sources strongly suggested that JimmyG was that Pat’s primary target for the offseason.

Blech.

I mean, I don't mind the player and think he can be successful back in the NE system.... but.... The dude carries an absurdly high cap number for the next two seasons. That's a lot to tie up for a guy who is probably a league average QB.

 

[Super Nomario]

Blech.

I mean, I don't mind the player and think he can be successful back in the NE system.... but.... The dude carries an absurdly high cap number for the next two seasons. That's a lot to tie up for a guy who is probably a league average QB.

I know we're used to thinking of high 20's as "absurdly high," but it's really not anymore. Jimmy G's $27.5 MM a year ranks 13th in AAV. It would be even less for the acquiring team ($24.1 MM Y1, $25.6 MM Y2). He's an average QB making an average salary.

The problem is that he's only played more than 6 games in a season once.

 

[JM3]

If BB is actually that interested in JG, I couldn't imagine him being ok with such a ridiculous amount of leaking on the subject.

 

[Mooch]

I know we're used to thinking of high 20's as "absurdly high," but it's really not anymore. Jimmy G's $27.5 MM a year ranks 13th in AAV. It would be even less for the acquiring team ($24.1 MM Y1, $25.6 MM Y2). He's an average QB making an average salary.

The problem is that he's only played more than 6 games in a season once.

I show him as 12th right now but some of the guys above him will either (a) retire or (b) restructure/extend to lessen their cap hit, especially heading into 2021 when the overall cap will go down. I'd bet that Ryan, Wentz, Big Ben, Wilson and Rodgers (at a minimum) will all carry much lower cap numbers for next year than what they're currently showing on Spotrac. I highly doubt that anyone is going to similarly extend Jimmy G to free up space. The 49ers have said that they won't do it.

 

[Super Nomario]

I show him as 12th right now but some of the guys above him will either (a) retire or (b) restructure/extend to lessen their cap hit, especially heading into 2021 when the overall cap will go down. I'd bet that Ryan, Wentz, Big Ben, Wilson and Rodgers (at a minimum) will all carry much lower cap numbers for next year than what they're currently showing on Spotrac. I highly doubt that anyone is going to similarly extend Jimmy G to free up space. The 49ers have said that they won't do it.

Sure, but Stafford and Brady are behind him and likely to restructure and jump ahead. Really, the only veteran starters behind Jimmy are those two, Derek Carr, Brees and Rivers (who will both retire), Alex Smith, and Teddy Bridgewater. If you knew you were getting 16 games, it's a fair price - not a bargain, but fair.

I think if the Pats traded for Jimmy, they would do something like convert $10 MM of his salary to NLTBE bonuses, which should be pretty easy since he missed 10 games last year. To entice him to do that, they could convert another $10 MM of his salary to bonus, which would cut his 2021 hit by $5 MM. That would make his 2021 hit only $9.1 MM but his 2022 hit potentially as high as $40.6 MM - but with only $5 MM guaranteed, it would be easy to extend or move on at that point.

 

[BaseballJones]

I know we're used to thinking of high 20's as "absurdly high," but it's really not anymore. Jimmy G's $27.5 MM a year ranks 13th in AAV. It would be even less for the acquiring team ($24.1 MM Y1, $25.6 MM Y2). He's an average QB making an average salary.

The problem is that he's only played more than 6 games in a season once.

Yeah as a player, JG would represent a huge upgrade over Cam. BUT...his inability to stay on the field is a huge red flag.

 

[Mooch]

Sure, but Stafford and Brady are behind him and likely to restructure and jump ahead. Really, the only veteran starters behind Jimmy are those two, Derek Carr, Brees and Rivers (who will both retire), Alex Smith, and Teddy Bridgewater. If you knew you were getting 16 games, it's a fair price - not a bargain, but fair.

I think if the Pats traded for Jimmy, they would do something like convert $10 MM of his salary to NLTBE bonuses, which should be pretty easy since he missed 10 games last year. To entice him to do that, they could convert another $10 MM of his salary to bonus, which would cut his 2021 hit by $5 MM. That would make his 2021 hit only $9.1 MM but his 2022 hit potentially as high as $40.6 MM - but with only $5 MM guaranteed, it would be easy to extend or move on at that point.

Interesting idea and certainly one I'd sign up for. Based on that, it would appear that it wouldn't take much to acquire him in trade since Jimmy G needs to approve any trade in the 2021 season, right? He's got all of the leverage.

 

[Super Nomario]

Yeah as a player, JG would represent a huge upgrade over Cam. BUT...his inability to stay on the field is a huge red flag.

I'm not sure it would represent a huge upgrade ... overall, the offense was only a little worse in 2020 (1.92 yards per drive) than it was in 2019 with Brady (1.97). It depends on what they do to upgrade the (shoddy) skill positions. It would look different for sure.

 

[Garshaparra]

Teams with established starters whose returns are questionable for one reason or another (7):

• Indy

Young wart-riddled starters:

• Wentz
• Garopollo
• Jones
• Darnold
• Trubisky
• Teddy B

You can officially move Indy to "Teams Who Have Nothing", with Rivers's retirement, and Brissett's free agency. Brissett should also be in the "Young wart-riddled starters" category.

 

[Saints Rest]

I'm not sure it would represent a huge upgrade ... overall, the offense was only a little worse in 2020 (1.92 yards per drive) than it was in 2019 with Brady (1.97). It depends on what they do to upgrade the (shoddy) skill positions. It would look different for sure.

Although I think that most veteran QBs, from Teddy B to Jimmy G to Aaron Rodgers would improve the offense over year, I believe that the Pats need to acquire a QB with some gravity, someone who will entice other skill position players to want to sign here. Rodgers does that for sure. Stafford, maybe (do you sign Marvin Jones as well?). Jimmy G, I'm not so sure.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I don't think Jimmy G is particularly good, and worse he can't stay healthy, and as Cam has shown, if you're constantly getting hurt, eventually you don't come back the same from one of them. He'd represent an upgrade in terms of the visual appeal of the offense, not sure how much of an increase in actual production he would bring.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I don't think Jimmy G is particularly good, and worse he can't stay healthy, and as Cam has shown, if you're constantly getting hurt, eventually you don't come back the same from one of them. He'd represent an upgrade in terms of the visual appeal of the offense, not sure how much of an increase in actual production he would bring.

All true but you really wonder what the plan is at QB if/when they strike out on Stafford and the other top targets. Dak is staying in Dallas. Pats don't have assets to be top Watson bidder. Stafford is probably not happening. Jimmy G only happens if SF finds something better, like a Stafford or Rodgers. Fitz is 100 years old. Trubisky stinks. The draft offers some intriguing options but not many Day 1 starters most likely. The coaching staff clearly thinks very little of Stidham. Cam is toast.

It's going to be fascinating to see what they do here. I'm sure they have already identified some guys but the level of competition is almost unprecedented.

 

[Cellar-Door]

All true but you really wonder what the plan is at QB if/when they strike out on Stafford and the other top targets. Dak is staying in Dallas. Pats don't have assets to be top Watson bidder. Stafford is probably not happening. Jimmy G only happens if SF finds something better, like a Stafford or Rodgers. Fitz is 100 years old. Trubisky stinks. The draft offers some intriguing options but not many Day 1 starters most likely. The coaching staff clearly thinks very little of Stidham. Cam is toast.

It's going to be fascinating to see what they do here. I'm sure they have already identified some guys but the level of competition is almost unprecedented.

I would not be shocked to see Cam back.

I could also see them picking up another reclamation project depending on which of the below are cheap:
Brissett
Jameis
Fitz
Dalton

 

[dynomite]

Sorry if I've missed it elsewhere, but I'd love to hear more about Jameis Winston from folks on here. I'm not sure how realistic he is for the Pats, but in general
it feels pretty rare to find a free agent QB who is only 27 (!), has a 5,100 yard season under his belt, is a former #1 overall pick, and doesn't have much of an injury history. At the same time, his turnovers, at times bizarre decision-making, and bad pregame speeches are close to legendary at this point, and his services were hardly in high demand after 2019. He went with a 1 year, $1 million contract to back up Brees -- and when Brees went down this season the Saints promptly turned to... Taysom Hill.

Here's a breakdown on Yardbarker of his 2019 season I've found helpful so far:

Strengths: ... Winston, who has a cannon for an arm, may not be the most accurate deep passer in the world, but he can get the ball where it needs to be in a hurry. This trait worked well for him in Tampa Bay, where he had elite wideouts Mike Evans and Chris Godwin. Winston trusts his playmakers to make plays and gives them every opportunity to do so. ...

Weaknesses: An inability to read the field well, which leads to interceptions. That's unacceptable for an experienced QB. His next coaching staff must work with him on identifying the traps that defenses are trying to draw him into. Also, he must be better at recognizing post-snap movement....

...[Winston] recorded truly exceptional throws at a below-average rate. Many of his flashiest highlights and biggest-yardage plays were because his receivers made terrific catches. Arians was the perfect coach to get the most out of a player like Winston, who failed to take advantage....

 

[Garshaparra]

The Pats are built for ball control (at least offensively). Winston makes no sense in that regard given his incredible willingness to turn the ball over. Someone (AZ?) will give him a shot as a backup once again, but I don't think he'll ever start.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

I would not be shocked to see Cam back.

I could also see them picking up another reclamation project depending on which of the below are cheap:
Brissett
Jameis
Fitz
Dalton

The diversity of those names shows why this offseason is going to be so fascinating for the Pats. Brissett is essentially a younger, somewhat better version of last year's Cam. Going with him would indicate the Pats might try to run back the "Cam system," just with someone younger who theoretically hasn't totally forgot how to throw the football occasionally. Jameis is an interesting upside/reclamation play but we all know the interception issues there. Fitz might be the most intriguing name on that list, but he's also 38 years old and may want to go to a team with a more realistic chance at the postseason, particularly since he's never played in a single playoff game. Dalton strikes me as the kind of QB you might want if you already have a strong pass-catching corps, but the Pats don't, and I don't think he's a guy that will elevate the receivers the Pats do have.

P.S. I want no part of Cam for another season other than on a minimum-or-close salary where he is a backup/occasional wildcat QB or whatever.

 

[Cellar-Door]

The diversity of those names shows why this offseason is going to be so fascinating for the Pats. Brissett is essentially a younger, somewhat better version of last year's Cam. Going with him would indicate the Pats might try to run back the "Cam system," just with someone younger who theoretically hasn't totally forgot how to throw the football occasionally. Jameis is an interesting upside/reclamation play but we all know the interception issues there. Fitz might be the most intriguing name on that list, but he's also 38 years old and may want to go to a team with a more realistic chance at the postseason, particularly since he's never played in a single playoff game. Dalton strikes me as the kind of QB you might want if you already have a strong pass-catching corps, but the Pats don't, and I don't think he's a guy that will elevate the receivers the Pats do have.

P.S. I want no part of Cam for another season other than on a minimum-or-close salary where he is a backup/occasional wildcat QB or whatever.

That's the thing, the Patriots have a ton of cap space and on offense the only guys really locked in are the line and RBs, and they don't really dictate what kind of offense. It's an interesting situation in that you get to pick your QB and build around his strengths/weaknesses, without worrying that you are misusing other assets because you're not really invested in anything else on that side of the ball.

 

[rodderick]

The Pats are built for ball control (at least offensively). Winston makes no sense in that regard given his incredible willingness to turn the ball over. Someone (AZ?) will give him a shot as a backup once again, but I don't think he'll ever start.

They're built for ball control because they have a very good OL without any weapons in the passing game. Ideally you want to find some receivers so you can go back to throwing the ball again, I don't think an offense that runs a lot of plays but can't score is what Bill has in mind for next year, that just came out of necessity.

 

[Garshaparra]

They're built for ball control because they have a very good OL without any weapons in the passing game. Ideally you want to find some receivers so you can go back to throwing the ball again, I don't think an offense that runs a lot of plays but can't score is what Bill has in mind for next year, that just came out of necessity.

That recipe won them a Super Bowl two years ago. Perhaps they're better off spending on DL and LB and a cheaper Cam clone (like Brissett). As noted, completely fascinating off-season to come.

 

[RedOctober3829]

That recipe won them a Super Bowl two years ago. Perhaps they're better off spending on DL and LB and a cheaper Cam clone (like Brissett). As noted, completing fascinating off-season to come.

That recipe did not win them a Super Bowl 2 years ago. Tom Brady won them the Super Bowl. He shredded the Chargers(34-44 for 343 yards and 1 TD) and won them the AFC title game at KC with 3rd down after 3rd down conversions to tie it and ripped KC apart on the game winner. In the Super Bowl, it was the absolute dime to Gronkowski that set up the winning touchdown run. Sony Michel had a really good postseason, but they won the championship on the right arm of #12.

 

[Cellar-Door]

That recipe won them a Super Bowl two years ago. Perhaps they're better off spending on DL and LB and a cheaper Cam clone (like Brissett). As noted, completing fascinating off-season to come.

Not really though, that team had an elite QB at a discount, an elite TE and a #1 type WR for most of the year (Gordon).

The idea that a "ball control offense" with the best QB of all time, and a top 3 TE of all-time is the same as a "ball control offense" without those 2 things is kind of silly. That offense was top 5 in the league because they had an incredibly efficient QB, with Alex Smith or Cam Newton it not only isn't a SB winner, it probably isn't a playoff team.

 

[rodderick]

That recipe won them a Super Bowl two years ago. Perhaps they're better off spending on DL and LB and a cheaper Cam clone (like Brissett). As noted, completing fascinating off-season to come.

When they threw 30 times in the first half to build a 35-7 lead in the Divisional round? When Brady got the ball down 21-17 with 7 minutes left in the 4th quarter and threw on 24 out of 34 plays to lead 3 consecutive TD drives to keep up with Mahomes? Even in the Super Bowl, when they had to have a drive they threw the ball almost exclusively until they reached the goal line.