QB Play in Washington

[soxfan121]

 
It's probably a far different and more complex topic, but I've always been fascinated by everything that's required to become a high level athlete.  You see guys with all the gifts in the world save one or two, and the shaky foundation eventually crumbles or guys with all the physical tools and none of the mental ones.  I just hate seeing potential fail, but maybe I've watch A Bronx Tale too many times.

 
The total package is very, very rare. And by that I mean - to have the field intelligence, the book smarts, the information processing capability, the charisma, the patience, the physical skills, the drive, the "it hurts to lose"...and a bunch more I'm missing. Whew. Draw up a list of general attributes the high-level athlete requires and it is both long and humbling. 
 
Lots of guys have 10 of 12 or 13 of 15...but the guys who check ALL the boxes? Rare. 
 
Praise be to Pedro.

 

[Stitch01]

Sort of hoping he goes to the Rams after this season and turns things around,

 

[DanoooME]

The parallels between Luck/RGIII and Manning/Leaf are really getting eerie.

 

[Devizier]

No way Griffin turns into the epic fuckup Ryan Leaf was.

 

[Super Nomario]

No way Griffin turns into the epic fuckup Ryan Leaf was.

Yeah, Leaf threw just 14 TD passes and 36 INTs in his career. RGIII's already at 38 TDs with only 20 INTs.

 

[RG33]

No way Griffin turns into the epic fuckup Ryan Leaf was.

Yeah, Ryan Leaf's football career was absurdly bad. 45% 2TDs and 13 INT in his rookie year in 9 starts. His personal life is somehow even worse........

RGIII was ROY and had a very solid showing in year 1.

Leaf may be one of the worst picks of all-time.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LeafRy00.htm

 

[JCizzle]

There are a lot of things going on here, but I'd wager the chances of RGIII making the transition in playing style would have been a lot higher if he trusted his knees and still had his athleticism.

This franchise is fucked.

 
Yep. It was disgraceful how they handled that injury. I remember watching that Seahawks game and thinking it was a ticking time bomb, he couldn't push off to throw at all and was limping noticeably on the one play they tried the read option. Maybe defenses would have adjusted in year two, but his throwing numbers were still pretty damn good overall that first year and I think he would have been significantly better off in the adjustment phase had they not further ruined his leg. They were paying the elder Shannahan like $7M a year to look out for the 20 year old kid's best interest and not listen to his bullshit about feeling fine when everyone could tell he was gimped (what else do you think a rookie in that position is going to say, bench me?). 
 
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000123187/Seahawks-vs-Redskins-highlights
 
Year 1: 65%, 3200 yards, 20 TD, 5 INT. The kid was a much better QB than Kap. 

 

[TheYaz67]

Another sign of franchise incompetence / dysfunction - promoting a "cyber Monday" deal on tickets, that is only available over the phone....
 
Also, I believe the 49 point drubbing over last weekend now moves the Redskins defense to dead last in several key measures - the problems run MUCH deeper than the QB fiasco - finding any competent DBs would be a great goal for the off season...

 

[loshjott]

Another sign of franchise incompetence / dysfunction - promoting a "cyber Monday" deal on tickets, that is only available over the phone....
 
 

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Yeah, Ryan Leaf's football career was absurdly bad. 45% 2TDs and 13 INT in his rookie year in 9 starts. His personal life is somehow even worse........

RGIII was ROY and had a very solid showing in year 1.

Leaf may be one of the worst picks of all-time.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LeafRy00.htm

 
So you're saying that RGIII is Rick Mirer? That seems like the most likely career comparison. 

 

[jose melendez]

 
So you're saying that RGIII is Rick Mirer? That seems like the most likely career comparison. 

 
That might make sense.  Mirer really did look like he might be the Elway to Bledsoe's Marino in that first year.

 

[Vandalman]

Report: Jay Gruden is done with Robert Griffin III
 

 
If you wondered just how bad the relationship between Redskins coach Jay Gruden and now-backup quarterback Robert Griffin III is, the Washington Post's Jason Reid reveals that it's basically broken. And probably unfixable.
 
In his story, Reid writes that Gruden is done with Griffin and wants him off the team. It's unclear if owner Daniel Snyder and general manager Bruce Allen agree with Gruden and will back him, but it also seems clear that Griffin's tenure with the team is shaky at best.

 

[dcmissle]

And Schefter reported that RGIII may yet get a start this season.
 
Gruden plainly has concluded that this QB is not fixable within a time frame consistent with a first-time HC not getting fired.  And so he is playing hardball with 4 years and $16 million remaining on his contract after this season.  Smart move.

 

[86spike]

My boss is a big Skins fan.
 
This morning I asked him about his thoughts on the RGIII/Gruden news.  He replied "I have no thoughts."
 
He is in a serious love/hate spiral with his team.

 

[Winger 03]

Quite the power play by Gruden to establish he is boss of the team.
 
Interesting to see how Snyder / Allen fit into this one.  Hard to imagine that Gruden is out by himself on this without ANY input from upstairs but Gruden might be in F-it mode and feels the need to make a stand and lean on the 4 yrs remaining on his contract.
 
Whatever kind of QB Griffin ends up being, it won't be in Washington I think unless Snyder goes crazy and offs Gruden.  If that is the case then it is clear Snyder / Allen are going to keep hammering away at Griffin as the franchise QB while thoughts of 2012 and what was (and never will be again) dance in their heads.
 
Sunday v. Rams will be an interesting game from an attendance standpoint.  SRO tix going for $6 on StubHub.

 

[dcmissle]

An interesting things about this is that fans have not rallied around RGIII.  And there is not a hint of a racial element in the discussion.  Fans in the main are just starving for competence.
 
So if they off Gruden, it's not going to go down so well.  And Gruden is too smart to be baited into insubordination that would justify a termination for cause. 

 

[DJnVa]

 
That might make sense.  Mirer really did look like he might be the Elway to Bledsoe's Marino in that first year.

 
He did? I don't recall that at all.
 
 
EDIT: Just looked at some numbers--12 TD/17 INT, 4.7 YPA, led league in times sacked. Was there really an Elway vibe around him that I'm just not remembering?

 

[crystalline]

And Schefter reported that RGIII may yet get a start this season.
 
Gruden plainly has concluded that this QB is not fixable within a time frame consistent with a first-time HC not getting fired.  And so he is playing hardball with 4 years and $16 million remaining on his contract after this season.  Smart move.

But is bringing in a new QB and coaching him up consistent with Gruden's time frame?
I don't think McCoy is the answer, do you?
Griffin looks terrible right now but the other option is rolling the dice on a rookie...

I am not surprised Gruden took a stand, but I'm surprised its about cutting Griffin loose. I'd have tried to bench him for poor work ethic instead and try to get through to him. A QB savior is not on the horizon.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

But is bringing in a new QB and coaching him up consistent with Gruden's time frame?
I don't think McCoy is the answer, do you?
Griffin looks terrible right now but the other option is rolling the dice on a rookie...

I am not surprised Gruden took a stand, but I'm surprised its about cutting Griffin loose. I'd have tried to bench him for poor work ethic instead and try to get through to him. A QB savior is not on the horizon.

 
What, besides an offhand Steve Young comment that Young later clarified, suggests that RG3 has a "poor work ethic"? Most of what I've seen suggests that while RG3 isn't at Peyton Manning levels of obsessiveness, he does put in the work during the week. His problem to me isn't work ethic, it's that his footwork is atrocious and that's a really hard problem to fix, particularly in-season when you have other things like game plans that you have to work on.

 

[jose melendez]

 
He did? I don't recall that at all.
 
 
EDIT: Just looked at some numbers--12 TD/17 INT, 4.7 YPA, led league in times sacked. Was there really an Elway vibe around him that I'm just not remembering?

First few games maybe?
 
From Wikipedia "Mirer was selected with the second overall pick in the 1993 draft by the Seattle Seahawks. He signed a five year, $15 million contract. In his rookie year under head coach Tom Flores, he set all time NFL rookie records for attempts, completions & yards, and became only the 3rd rookie quarterback since 1970 to start all of his team's games. He finished his rookie season 5th in the AFC with 274 completions and 2833 yards. He was also runner up in the offensive rookie of the year voting, finishing behind his former backfield teammate from Notre Dame, Jerome Bettis. Those rookie records were eventually broken by Peyton Manning. Over his next 3 seasons in Seattle, Mirer experienced a rapid decline, throwing only 29 touchdowns and 39 interceptions, including 20 during the 1995 season (3 less than he threw in 4 years at Notre Dame)."

 

[crystalline]

 
What, besides an offhand Steve Young comment that Young later clarified, suggests that RG3 has a "poor work ethic"? Most of what I've seen suggests that while RG3 isn't at Peyton Manning levels of obsessiveness, he does put in the work during the week. His problem to me isn't work ethic, it's that his footwork is atrocious and that's a really hard problem to fix, particularly in-season when you have other things like game plans that you have to work on.

OK, I take back the work ethic comment, I remember reading it but you are saying there is no confirmation.

However, the Post article itself says Garden has issues with Griffin off the field.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/for-jay-gruden-the-best-place-for-robert-griffin-iii-is-elsewhere/2014/12/03/911e0cde-7a69-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html

My point is Gruden should have taken a stand with Snyder earlier to try to fix Griffin rather than now to cut him loose.
Do you think any other QB options are likely to be good?

 

[dcmissle]

 
What, besides an offhand Steve Young comment that Young later clarified, suggests that RG3 has a "poor work ethic"? Most of what I've seen suggests that while RG3 isn't at Peyton Manning levels of obsessiveness, he does put in the work during the week. His problem to me isn't work ethic, it's that his footwork is atrocious and that's a really hard problem to fix, particularly in-season when you have other things like game plans that you have to work on.

It's pretty well accepted here that he's working hard, but not on the right stuff. He is a monster in the weight room, and that is fine. More is expected of him in the film room, learning a newly installed offense, working on fundamentals, and recognition.

What makes this such a spectacular shitshow is the fact that he was not only horrendous, but horrendous in a dumbed down, greatly stripped version of the offense.

Put differently, Cousins had no difficulty in many of these areas, why should RGIII? (Counsins' problem is different -- putting the ball up for grabs).

Again, this area has finely tuned racial sensibilities. But fans realize he is not being unfairly stereotyped or picked on. He has not been all in the right areas. To this day, he does not seem to get it.

 

[dcmissle]

But is bringing in a new QB and coaching him up consistent with Gruden's time frame?
I don't think McCoy is the answer, do you?
Griffin looks terrible right now but the other option is rolling the dice on a rookie...

I am not surprised Gruden took a stand, but I'm surprised its about cutting Griffin loose. I'd have tried to bench him for poor work ethic instead and try to get through to him. A QB savior is not on the horizon.

Could Colt McCoy become Alex Smith? I don't know, but maybe Gruden's is trying to find out. In today's NFL, there is enormous pressure to overpay for mediocrity at QB. You are probably better off with good enough at a lower cost and spending the money elsewhere.

From Gruden's perspective, he may think McCoy is not good enough. But he knows RGIII isn't.

And there is some confirmation of this from disinterested parties -- the other 52 players. They seem quite content with McCoy starting and RGIII on the bench. This move occasioned no controversy. The controversy came -- from the receivers especially -- when they felt RGIII was forced down their throats in Minnesota, after McCoy played well enough to win in Dallas.

 

[Al Zarilla]

I had forgotten how much the Redskins gave up for the right to draft Griffin.
 
In a predraft blockbuster trade, the St. Louis Rams have agreed in principle to send the second overall pick in this year's draft to the Washington Redskins for three first-round draft picks and a second-round pick.
The trade, first reported by FoxSports.com, cannot be signed off on, turned in and processed until the new league year starts at 4 p.m. ET Tuesday, but it is expected to become official then.
"In order to execute each of our club's plans for free agency and the upcoming draft, we have agreed to a trade between our two teams for the 2nd pick in the 2012 draft. We will submit this trade to the NFL for approval," Redskins general manager Bruce Allen and Rams general manager Les Snead said in a combined statement Saturday morning.
Rams chief operating officer Kevin Demoff also confirmed the deal Saturday morning to The Associated Press.
In the deal, the Rams will receive the Redskins' No. 6 overall pick this year, as well as the Redskins' first-round picks in 2013 and 2014. The Rams also will receive Washington's second-round pick this year in return for the second overall pick that the Redskins now will use on whichever quarterback the Indianapolis Colts do not draft No. 1 overall.
 
And then Bruce Allen mad a little corollary to justify the trade:
"We understand it was a heavy price but when you bought your home you probably wanted to pay a little less too," Washington general manager Bruce Allen said Saturday. "But you like your home once you live in it."
 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7668243/washington-redskins-acquire-no-2-overall-pick-st-louis-rams
 
That "home" must feel like a place with all the windows busted in in January in North Dakota. 
 
 
 

 

[johnmd20]

 
That "home" must feel like a place with all the windows busted in in January in North Dakota. 
 

 
Syria.

 

[soxhop411]

What a mess of an organization

Washington coach Jay Gruden could be out of a job after this season because of his desire to part ways with Robert Griffin III, according to Jason Reid of The Washington Post.

Washington owner Daniel Snyder and general manager Bruce Allen aren't necessarily on board with Gruden's desire. Gruden has already benched Griffin for Colt McCoy (and previously, Kirk Cousins), but an ESPN report this week said Griffin could start again this season, a report presumably leaked by upper management as a rebuke to Gruden's decision. Gruden's job could be in jeopardy if he doesn't give Griffin another shot, according to Reid:

http://deadspin.com/jay-gruden-may-lose-his-job-unless-he-makes-nice-with-r-1667806859?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

 

[Tony C]

The only thing in Gruden's favor is that his bosses are bigger losers than he is. Confederacy of Dunces....

 

[dcmissle]

Jason Reid is a good reporter. At the same time, folks should bear in mind that he is channeling Gruden while Schefter is channeling Snyder/Allen.

This is the second year running that the last quarter of the season is unfolding this way. Last year RGIII killed Shanahan, and the question is whether Gruden's next. This is beyond Raideresque. Who is next, the guy who coached him at Baylor?

I will offer a theory that is entirely speculative; I've seen not a hint of it in the press: Allen and Snyder are at least very frustrated with, and maybe furious at, Gruden because they believe he may have sold them a bill of goods to get the job.

Nobody was getting this HC job unless he was two thumbs up about Griffin during the interviews. There is no disputing that. Yet, before the regular season even began, we are told, Gruden was entirely out of the Griffin business.

So a reasonable question is, what changed in your estimation in such a short time? Could you not have seen the disaster on film before you interviewed?

So best case, Gruden is too impatient. Worst case, in their estimation, Gruden manipulated them to get the job and is now doing what he wants. Neither is good.

If there is anything to this speculation, things will be surreal around here between now and season's end. All I know is that Gruden coming out of this flush. One way or another.

 

[Phragle]

Jason Reid is a good reporter. At the same time, folks should bear in mind that he is channeling Gruden while Schefter is channeling Snyder/Allen.

This is the second year running that the last quarter of the season is unfolding this way. Last year RGIII killed Shanahan, and the question is whether Gruden's next. This is beyond Raideresque. Who is next, the guy who coached him at Baylor?

 
Art Briles, and I hope so. Is that the consensus around town?

 

[dcmissle]

 
Art Briles, and I hope so. Is that the consensus around town?

He was mentioned once this week, half in jest. Give it time.

 

[Prodigal Sox]

He was mentioned once this week, half in jest. Give it time.

He was also mentioned last year when it was apparent that Shanahan was on his way out. The rumor was that RGIII was lobbying for it.

 

[dcmissle]

He was also mentioned last year when it was apparent that Shanahan was on his way out. The rumor was that RGIII was lobbying for it.

Yep. Side note: the HC/QB/Owner shit show started even earlier this season than last. It was one year ago this weekend, before a horrible loss in the snow at home to KC, that it broke open with Shanahan.

A good case can be made that Washington/NYJ/Oakland are the three worst in professional sports in this country, not just football.

 

[Jnai]

My nephew got free RG3 coloring books this week in school in alexandria va. So, someone is still promoting this guy pretty hard.

 

[Al Zarilla]

My nephew got free RG3 coloring books this week in school in alexandria va. So, someone is still promoting this guy pretty hard.

Free though. If they were Peyton Manning coloring books, they'd be a couple bucks each. 

 

[Super Nomario]

A good case can be made that Washington/NYJ/Oakland are the three worst in professional sports in this country, not just football.

Oakland's been horrible on the field, but Cleveland has easily been more dysfunctional over the past couple seasons.

 

[Devizier]

Here's the thing about the brouhaha surrounding Griffin. How many quarterbacks would behave differently in this scenario? He's been buddy-buddy with the franchise owner since he was drafted. You would have to be a remarkable 22-year old to not have that affect your behavior. Snyder is a disgraceful shitstain for many reasons, but in this case he's just an embarrassing starfucker.  Also, I should add that Chucky's brother knew what he was getting into here. No sympathy from me.

 

[Tony C]

Free though. If they were Peyton Manning coloring books, they'd be a couple bucks each. 

 
But with Papa John's coupons included....

 

[Stitch01]

Yep. Side note: the HC/QB/Owner shit show started even earlier this season than last. It was one year ago this weekend, before a horrible loss in the snow at home to KC, that it broke open with Shanahan.

A good case can be made that Washington/NYJ/Oakland are the three worst in professional sports in this country, not just football.

Shanahan pretty much deserved what he got although obviously the ownership remains a major handicap

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Watching this all unfold I can't help but remember this story when it ran a few years ago:
 
Snyder leaves Mike Nolan some Baskin Robins.
 
What a clownshow.

 

[Devizier]

It's almost five full years since Snyder fired Turner, on a Monday, one day after Turner's Redskins lost here to the Giants, 9-7; another close game Turner didn't win. After the game Snyder kept Turner on ice in the clubhouse area, instructing him to sit and wait like a truant. About two hours later, Turner shrugged and drove home, tired of being treated like a schoolboy. The next day Snyder canned him. The Redskins were 7-6 at the time. Hardly any coach gets fired in the middle of an NFL season, certainly no coach with a winning record. Snyder was saying, I'd rather have anybody coach my team than Norv Turner.

 
From this 2005 article by Tony Kornheiser:
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/20/AR2005112000855.html

 

[Jnai]

Alfred Morris rushed for 6 yards on 8 attempts... with a long of 12.
 
That's a really hard stat line to pull off.