RB Dion Lewis out for 2015 with torn ACL

[nattysez]

I assume they'll bring in Cadet and Dri Archer and see if either of them have a little of Dion's magic.

The Niners brought Shaun Draughn in a week ago and he went 16-for-58 on the ground and 4-for-38 receiving v. Atlanta. While I understand the panic, there are capable guys kicking around on the street.

Edit: And, I should add, this is why he was smart to sign his contract when he did. He was realistic about his chances of staying healthy. Good on him.

 

[ifmanis5]

For people who think White can step in and do the same things that Lewis could do, I hate to break it to you but Lewis is a 9 out of 10 and White is about a 2.5. It's a massive drop in quality.

 

[MillarTime]

I think they'll be OK with White/Cadet/other RB, but this is definitely a big loss. To amarshal's point above, this offense felt unstoppable with the dimension Lewis added.

This really, really sucks for Lewis....

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Wow. What a blow.

 

[jablo1312]

Feel awful for the kid. Incredible to watch, and has a great story after being out of football.

Ceiling on the offense goes from a 10 to like an 8.5, it feels like.

 

[Tony C]

I wouldn't downplay this. RBs shouldn't be valued too highly because they have a short shelf life and good ones can be found cheap. But that doesn't mean that in the short term a guy like Lewis doesn't have tremendous value: he's involved in as many plays as anyone on the offense (short of Brady, obviously) and consistently gained crucial extra yards and had big play ability. It's a significant drop to Blount, and a huge drop to White.

Sucks. But, hey, such is life in the NFL.

 

[lexrageorge]

Losing Lewis is obviously a blow. A torn ACL this late in the season means there's a nonzero chance he starts 2016 on the PUP as well. Those backfield receivers have always been crucial to a Brady offense.

However, Dion Lewis had 102 yards rushing and -3 yards receiving in his first season with the Eagles. Which means it's too early to write off James White.

 

[TSC]

For people who think White can step in and do the same things that Lewis could do, I hate to break it to you but Lewis is a 9 out of 10 and White is about a 2.5. It's a massive drop in quality.

Is this really true though? This is a guy who couldn't stick with how many other teams before landing here? Don't get me wrong - Lewis was absolutely awesome when he was on the field, but it's not as if there was a ton of fanfare and posters claiming "A-HA! The missing piece is here!" when he was brought in.

I guess what I'm saying is - how much of what he did was him, and how much of it was the system he plays in?

 

[BigSoxFan]

Between Faulk, Woodhead, Vereen, and Lewis, Brady has always had a very good pass catching RB who can bail him out whenever the line breaks down. Until further notice, he doesn't really have that anymore, which really sucks. Hopefully someone can step up and make some plays.

 

[aksoxfan]

I hope he recovers completely. He has been a joy to watch.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Is this really true though? This is a guy who couldn't stick with how many other teams before landing here? Don't get me wrong - Lewis was absolutely awesome when he was on the field, but it's not as is there was a ton of fan fare and posters claiming "A-HA! The missing piece is here!"

I guess what I'm saying is - how much of what he did was him, and how much of it was the system he plays in?

It's both. Lewis is finally healthy and was in a position to succeed. No one knew what to expect because of his health.

 

[TSC]

It's both. Lewis is finally healthy and was in a position to succeed. No one knew what to expect because of his health.

Was finally healthy, at least.

 

[timelysarcasm]

Is this really true though? This is a guy who couldn't stick with how many other teams before landing here? Don't get me wrong - Lewis was absolutely awesome when he was on the field, but it's not as if there was a ton of fanfare and posters claiming "A-HA! The missing piece is here!" when he was brought in.

I guess what I'm saying is - how much of what he did was him, and how much of it was the system he plays in?

It was him - and we'll see that when his replacements step in. I don't know how you can watch him move around with the football and not realize that talent. He just got unlucky at the start of his career with some inopportune injuries. Hope he can come back strong. Thankfully if any team can absorb this kind of loss on the offense, it's the Patriots. And they must. Every team gets injuries, it's just about who gets boned less.

 

[amarshal2]

The offense got better when the offensive line figured things out. I honestly think they'll be fine and would be more worried about Vollmer's injury being longer-term.

You're referring to 2014, yes? I was talking about 2013.

Idk I feel like people are reacting as if we lost Gronk. It hurts no doubt. However, I'd say Lewis was objectively 4th on most important offensive player list behind 1)Brady 2) Gronk 3) Edelman. Hurts. But i don't think they'll miss much if they up Gronk's usage in passing game.

I agree completely. There was no, "OMG this is like losing Gronk!" intended. In my mind they went from overwhelming SB favorite (if such a thing exists) to just plain old SB favorite. Whoever said the offense just went from a 10 to an 8.5 nailed it. It sucks and has a real impact on their future...but woe is us.

 

[TheoShmeo]

White has looked good in short bursts. But my overriding take is that he has neither the size/strength nor the speed (not that you need to have both) to give them what they need at the pass catching RB position.

I'd like to see them continue to use Bolden in that role to see if he can be serviceable, at least for the time being.

But there's no way to sugar coat this. It wholly sucks, and the drop off from Lewis to everyone else the Pats have who could logically fill that role is huge.

One more thing for the Pats to overcome....

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Injuries just flat out suck. I really enjoyed watching Lewis go and hope for a full recovery. To me he was one of the best stories of the 2015 season...

 

[ragnarok725]

Feel awful for the kid. Incredible to watch, and has a great story after being out of football.

It's certainly blunted by the fact that he took some guaranteed money when it was offered to him, so he's gotten a bit of security out of it, and he'll certainly be positioned to win back a role again next season. As much as it sucks that he didn't reach the absolute ceiling he demonstrated he could reach during the course of a full season, I think he still has to be pretty happy with where he's at today relative to where he was at the start of the season.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

For people who think White can step in and do the same things that Lewis could do, I hate to break it to you but Lewis is a 9 out of 10 and White is about a 2.5. It's a massive drop in quality.

Not sure which scale you are using here but I don't believe that this is a massive drop in quality. A massive drop would be Brady to Jimmy or Gronk to Chandler. A drop, yes, but if White could be 75% of what Lewis is the offense really doesn't miss a beat. Having Lafell back and playing well will help too.

Lewis and White have similar combine numbers as well.

Lewis

• 4.57 SEC - 40 Yard Dash
• 17 REPS - Bench Press
• 34.5 INCH - Vertical
• 112.0 INCH - Broad Jump
• 6.90 SEC - 3 Cone
• 4.18 SEC - 20 yard shuttle
• 11.39 SEC - 60 yard shuttle

White

• 4.57 SEC - 40 Yard Dash
• 23 REPS - Bench Press
• 32.0 INCH - Vertical
• 114.0 INCH - Broad Jump
• 7.05 SEC - 3 Cone
• 4.20 SEC - 20 yard shuttle
• 11.76 SEC - 60 yard shuttle

 

[E5 Yaz]

While I wonder how they will replace his dimension, I think the sadness I feel about this is because of Lewis and his comeback story. I hope he has another comeback in him

 

[LesterFan]

 

[dynomite]

For people who think White can step in and do the same things that Lewis could do, I hate to break it to you but Lewis is a 9 out of 10 and White is about a 2.5. It's a massive drop in quality.

I don't think people necessarily think most people think he's 100% replaceable, but 9 to a 2.5 seems extreme. And I'm not just talking about replacing him with White, but also with anyone: Bolden, or a FA like Cadet.

Lewis is a big loss, but this is a team that is built to keep functioning despite injury, as the offensive line's performance has shown.

Guys like Woodhead and Lewis thrive in the Patriots offense because Belichick is better than anyone in the NFL at finding forgotten and overlooked players and using their skill sets effectively.

Out of the following group, I'm confident someone can give us 7 out of 10, whatever that means:

- Bolden
- White
- Cadet
- Archer
- [TBD]

Next man up and all that.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Josina Anderson ‏@JosinaAnderson 13m13 minutes ago
Just spoke w/ #Pats RB LeGarrette Blount who was sad to hear news on Lewis. “That’s my dog man. Don’t like to hear that. We’ll be straight"

 

[mulluysavage]

 

[PedraMartina]

Last year, my mantra was "Just keep Brady, Gronk, and Revis healthy and we'll be OK." This year it's down to Brady and Gronk -- and I guess, at this point, "Any OT we have on the roster." I haven't seen enough of White to have a strong view one way or the other, but so long as he can pick up blitzes OK we will be fine. It's not always that you lose an important contributor for the season and have a guy who you drafted to play exactly that role waiting in the wings.

As someone noted above, this may cause some shifts in emphasis, but this is a historically great offense, and one of the great joys of following this team is how they embody the "next man up" principle. Our entire roster construction strategy is based around making sure setbacks like this (which are absolutely certain to occur every single season) don't cripple you.

 

[LogansDad]

This was not the lunch time news I was looking for.

 

[The Big Red Kahuna]

Put me in the "this stinks but far from major impact on offense" camp

Faulk, Woodhead, Vereen, Lewis... mostly unheralded before coming... excelled... we were "screwed" when they left/got hurt. Or not so much.

I am more and more convinced that outside of perhaps the top 3-4 RBs in a given 5-year period, the rest are completely a function of their system. Every year, some team massively overpays for a top-tier RB only to see that player suffer away from their old team. Time and time again.

Lewis will be missed. But he is far from irreplaceable.

 

[Otis Foster]

Lewis was an effective blocker, too - reminded me of Faulk the way an undersized back could layout a 320 lineman.

 

[Stitch01]

White has looked good in short bursts. But my overriding take is that he has neither the size/strength nor the speed (not that you need to have both) to give them what they need at the pass catching RB position.

I'd like to see them continue to use Bolden in that role to see if he can be serviceable, at least for the time being.

But there's no way to sugar coat this. It wholly sucks, and the drop off from Lewis to everyone else the Pats have who could logically fill that role is huge.

One more thing for the Pats to overcome....

Id rather go with White or sign Cadet again rather than use Bolden. Bolden is great on special teams, one of the worst players in the league on offense. Maybe White and Cadet suck too, but we know Bolden is terrible, mine as well try the other options and see what we have. I expect White is active and gets the bulk of that role this week.

No one will come close to replicating what Lewis brought to the table, he was a rare running back that made a material difference to the offense. Its not losing Brady or Gronk or probably even Edelman, but the offense with Lewis healthy was close to unstoppable. Im glad he at least signed a new deal before this happened to him. He was a better player than Vereen or Faulk when he was on the field.

 

[bigq]

This sucks but next man up. This team can certainly win with White, Bolden or anyone else taking the place of Lewis. No one can replace Lewis fully however this team can adapt and in my view this is a minor setback.

 

[sodenj5]

Just based off of what I saw against the Dolphins, Lewis was the best player on the field not named Gronkowski or Brady. He has the ability to make people miss and turn nothing into something, or something into a big play.

His career has been riddled with injuries thus far, but you can see the obvious talent and potential when he's able to be on the field and healthy. You have to feel for the guy.

 

[bankshot1]

This sucks, but was the expected outcome.

Pats will get by, but the "next man up" won't be anywhere near as good as Lewis.

DAMN

I hope he mends as good as new, and can resume his football life.

 

[rodderick]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more Amendola from now on. They won't just plug White/whoever in there and run the same offense they would run if Lewis was on the field. My guess is a lot of his production will be picked up by a receiver.

 

[dynomite]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more Amendola from now on. They won't just plug White/whoever in there and run the same offense they would run if Lewis was on the field. My guess is a lot of his production will be picked up by a receiver.

Isn't this what people said when Vereen left?

Obviously Lewis turned out to be a revelation in that role, but still, this role has been turned over before.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Not sure which scale you are using here but I don't believe that this is a massive drop in quality. A massive drop would be Brady to Jimmy or Gronk to Chandler. A drop, yes, but if White could be 75% of what Lewis is the offense really doesn't miss a beat. Having Lafell back and playing well will help too.

Lewis and White have similar combine numbers as well.

Lewis

• 4.57 SEC - 40 Yard Dash
• 17 REPS - Bench Press
• 34.5 INCH - Vertical
• 112.0 INCH - Broad Jump
• 6.90 SEC - 3 Cone
• 4.18 SEC - 20 yard shuttle
• 11.39 SEC - 60 yard shuttle

White

• 4.57 SEC - 40 Yard Dash
• 23 REPS - Bench Press
• 32.0 INCH - Vertical
• 114.0 INCH - Broad Jump
• 7.05 SEC - 3 Cone
• 4.20 SEC - 20 yard shuttle
• 11.76 SEC - 60 yard shuttle

Having generally the same numbers tells you little, sadly, about their relative ability to make defenders miss and elude tackles. As noted by our eyes and the eye popping stat cited above, Lewis had an extraordinary ability to make people miss. White might have some of that but his limited touches thus far have not really shown it. Yes, the sample size is very small but who wasn't excited about Lewis' running style after the Steelers game? And that White's been inactive or unused as much as he has been thus far tells us something about how the coaching staff views his potential, I suspect.

And Stich01, it's fair that White and Cadet might have more upside than Bolden, but I think your "one of the worst offensive players in the NFL" is harsh. Not that I am excited about him taking over for Lewis, either.

 

[amarshal2]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more Amendola from now on. They won't just plug White/whoever in there and run the same offense they would run if Lewis was on the field. My guess is a lot of his production will be picked up by a receiver.

I think this is probably right. But now instead of the defense wondering, "are they going to run with Lewis in there with Gronk blocking or are they going pass? Should we put in a DB or a LB? Let's try a LB and pray for the best" they're going to think, "they've got no RB in, let's play dime!"

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

I'll go on the record right now and predict that White will be a productive player in this role. Not Lewis, but a good player who will be a pain in the ass for linebackers to cover.

I'm much much more worried about the fact that Bryan Stork and Cameron Fleming are currently our starting tackles. That might work against WAS, but it won't against Denver, the Jets, Buffalo, or Philly. I'm praying that Vollmer and Cannon are healthy for the stretch run.

 

[dynomite]

I think this is probably right. But now instead of the defense wondering, "are they going to run with Lewis in there with Gronk blocking or are they going pass? Should we put in a DB or a LB? Let's try a LB and pray for the best" they're going to think, "they've got no RB in, let's play dime!"

Why do you think that?

When Lewis went down Bolden came in and looked decent at both pass blocking and receiving, and so many of the plays in the playbook call for an RB on 3rd downs and in hurry up situations.

I don't see McDaniels totally changing the offense because one very shifty, very talented player is hurt.

Edit: And I agree with the above. If the offensive line can stop the bleeding and keep making lanes like they did for Blount yesterday this team will be just fine.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

And that White's been inactive or unused as much as he has been thus far tells us something about how the coaching staff views his potential, I suspect.

White being inactive when Lewis was healthy tells you that he doesn't play special teams and they're not dressing 3 non-ST RBs. Maybe he sucks, but I suspect he would not be on the roster over Cadet if they didn't believe he could play.

 

[amarshal2]

Why do you think that?

When Lewis went down Bolden came in and looked decent at both pass blocking and receiving, and so many of the plays in the playbook call for an RB on 3rd downs and in hurry up situations.

I don't see McDaniels totally changing the offense because one very shifty, very talented player is hurt.

Edit: And I agree with the above. If the offensive line can stop the bleeding and keep making lanes like they did for Blount yesterday this team will be just fine.

Meh -- I guess it's hard to read the context. I don't think they run the exact same offense as before. We'll see plenty of James White in the Leiws/Vereen role. We'll also see more Amendola and 4 WR sets.

 

[TheoShmeo]

White being inactive when Lewis was healthy tells you that he doesn't play special teams and they're not dressing 3 non-ST RBs. Maybe he sucks, but I suspect he would not be on the roster over Cadet if they didn't believe he could play.

I wasn't referring only to this season. White was inactive or unused for most of last year, too.

Yep, they indeed ranked White over Cadet but Cadet was injured for much of the summer. It's hard to win a job when you're in the tub.

Regardless, my point is that White not seeing the field much since he was picked allows us to draw an inference about Bill's view of him. That inference is not definitive by any means. I sure hope it's simply that Lewis was better and White can still contribute. But the list of Patriots players who were mostly inactive for the first years of their career (or year and a half) and later became real contributors is not long.

 

[joe dokes]

In many ways, having Lewis healthy was like having Hernandez and healthyGronk at TE. It gave the offense possibilities that seemed limited only by the Brady and the staff's creativity. By itself, losing Lewis drops the offense from interstellar to superhuman. It's combining it with the OL losses that creates a bigger issue. (And Lewis looked like like an effective blitz picker-upper; that has to be Job #1 for his replacement).

 

[Stitch01]

Having generally the same numbers tells you little, sadly, about their relative ability to make defenders miss and elude tackles. As noted by our eyes and the eye popping stat cited above, Lewis had an extraordinary ability to make people miss. White might have some of that but his limited touches thus far have not really shown it. Yes, the sample size is very small but who wasn't excited about Lewis' running style after the Steelers game? And that White's been inactive or unused as much as he has been thus far tells us something about how the coaching staff views his potential, I suspect.

And Stich01, it's fair that White and Cadet might have more upside than Bolden, but I think your "one of the worst offensive players in the NFL" is harsh. Not that I am excited about him taking over for Lewis, either.

Yeah I don't think White being inactive tells us much other than that Bolden plays special teams and they don't want to activate 4 running backs on game day very often. Pats have used Bolden in the pass catching back role before when Vereen was injured and he was not good at it. Maybe he'll be better this go round, but hopefully we don't find out, I expect White gets a good long look and Cadet comes back if he fails. White is for sure not going to be Dion Lewis, but he has not being Bolden going for him.


Regardless, my point is that White not seeing the field much since he was picked allows us to draw an inference about Bill's view of him. That inference is not definitive by any means. I sure hope it's simply that Lewis was better and White can still contribute. But the list of Patriots players who were mostly inactive for the first years of their career (or year and a half) and later became real contributors is not long.

On the optimistic side, Shane Vereen fits this description so its possible it has something to do with how the Pats groom players for that role and what they expect out of them. They drafted White as a Vereen successor and then had a Pro Bowl caliber talent drop into their lap ahead of him, so White has been blocked.

 

[crystalline]

I think this is probably right. But now instead of the defense wondering, "are they going to run with Lewis in there with Gronk blocking or are they going pass? Should we put in a DB or a LB? Let's try a LB and pray for the best" they're going to think, "they've got no RB in, let's play dime!"

Then hopefully the Pats say "Lets run a WR screen to LaFell or Amendola and have Gronk lead block"


Not that it's exactly the same offensive play, but the Pats use the WR screen like a running game- one reason Brady has a high completion % and sometimes few-ish yards through the air.

We also saw a lot of reverses, jet sweeps, and pitches to WR yesterday. Seemed like Belichick was opening up the playbook to test some new strategies against a lower level team.


I think where we'll miss Lewis is on playaction, where he can pick up a rusher. He pass blocked well yesterday. That was also a strength of Faulk, and Woodhead and Welker did some of it too. I haven't seen Edelman and Amendola able to pick up a rusher when motioned into the backfield.

Or maybe we'll see more multiple-TE plays.

Edit: @Super Nomario , @mascho any opinion on what the offense will do without Lewis?

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Having generally the same numbers tells you little, sadly, about their relative ability to make defenders miss and elude tackles. As noted by our eyes and the eye popping stat cited above, Lewis had an extraordinary ability to make people miss. White might have some of that but his limited touches thus far have not really shown it. Yes, the sample size is very small but who wasn't excited about Lewis' running style after the Steelers game? And that White's been inactive or unused as much as he has been thus far tells us something about how the coaching staff views his potential, I suspect.

And Stich01, it's fair that White and Cadet might have more upside than Bolden, but I think your "one of the worst offensive players in the NFL" is harsh. Not that I am excited about him taking over for Lewis, either.

I am in agreement that White does not have the elusiveness of Lewis but I don't believe that the loss of Lewis is a huge blow for the offense as some of suggested.

It sucks that he is hurt but the drop from Lewis to White shouldn't be something that makes the offense that less dynamic or effective.

 

[Stitch01]

Disagree with that, having a guy who could take what should be a 4 yard pass on 2nd and long and turn it into 20 yards by himself certainly made the offense more dynamic and effective in my book. They still should be a very good offense, don't get me wrong, but I don't see how it could be as effective or dynamic as with a healthy Lewis.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Last week, the Steelers released running back Dri Archer to create a roster spot for receiver Jacoby Jones. Unclaimed on waivers, Archer became a free agent.

To date, Archer hasn’t signed with another team. However, he has had multiple opportunities to join NFL practice squads.

Per a league source, Archer has passed on 10 offers to join practice squads, including an offer from the Steelers. Archer instead plans to wait and see whether any opportunities arise to join a 53-man roster.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/09/dri-archer-passes-on-10-practice-squad-offers/related/

 

[TheoShmeo]

I'm not going to campaign for Bolden, as a few nice plays yesterday don't transform him into Dion Lewis or anything close. I just don't like what I've seen in limited action from White and if blocking for Brady is one of the key factors, my sense is that Bolden would be better than White at that.

I also thought it was interesting that the Pats after the Jets game spoke a lot about changing the game plan materially when they learned a few hours before kickoff that Lewis would be inactive. They did not use the "next man up" philosophy with White on that day. At least not in the sense that they did not move White directly into the role they had envisioned for Lewis in that game. White did catch three balls for 26 yards and did have two carries on the ground. And yes, it's understandable that they were not ready to devote a considerable chunk of the game plan to White (as they had been planning to do with Lewis, apparently) at the last minute. But still, the radical shift last minute is not something I recall having heard about many times in the past, and, to me at least, it says something about their confidence level in White.

And I want nothing more for him to step in, do a great job and prove my negativity to be way off base.

 

[shoosh77]

Perusing the practice squad rosters for similar players, any thoughts on Dominique Williams (Wagner) who looks like he's on the Vikings PS?

6.72 3 Cone
34.5" Vertical
10' Broad Jump

 

[amarshal2]

I am in agreement that White does not have the elusiveness of Lewis but I don't believe that the loss of Lewis is a huge blow for the offense as some of suggested.

It sucks that he is hurt but the drop from Lewis to White shouldn't be something that makes the offense that less dynamic or effective.

Why? Because of the combine stats you posted?

Look, the sky isn't falling, but that doesn't make you any less wrong. Lewis was exceptional at what he does and White is average or worse.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Why? Because of the combine stats you posted?

Look, the sky isn't falling, but that doesn't make you any less wrong. Lewis was exceptional at what he does and White is average or worse.

Come on, White is at best an unknown.
He very well could be average or worse, but our simple size of White is very small. He is still a young player, it may take some reps for him to understand the speed of the game, but declaring him as just Average or Worse right not is extremely premature.