RealFantasy Pigskin 2013: Draft and Discussion

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

My default opinion is pretty much in line with SuperNomario's position but I can understand the opposing argument as well.  I'm happy to hear any other arguments for or against picking a second QB.
 
FWIW, its not clear to me that the ability to pick a second QB really helps teams that weren't able to land one in the first round.  You can hedge your bets with two QBs, but the talent pool will be that much more drained by other teams picking guys to back up their older QBs.  There's value in knowing that other teams are out of the QB market entirely.

 
I'm not really understanding how anyone can bitch about a team picking more than 1 QB. Limiting my team to 1 QB means that I'm forced into picking a below average player early on because nobody wants to get stuck with Mark Sanchez as their only alternative. By only allowing one QB per team, you're giving the teams that already had the advantage (got to pick early and got to pick a solid QB) even more of an advantage because the teams drafting at the bottom all have to scrounge for below level talent early on at a premium position, allowing better players to fall back to the people who draft at the top of the round. That's bullshit. If I want to spend my pick on a few gambles at QB, I should be allowed to.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

 

Call me crazy, but Revis is still the guy at CB.

 

I don't think you're crazy, but if you're starting a team, I think Sherman is the safer pick.

Revis is coming off of a torn ACL and will be 28 heading into next season. Sherman will be 25 next season, has the size to cover anyone, and no injury concerns. I'd have to imagine that being a CB would be just about the worst position to come back from a torn ACL due to the quick cutting and change of direction needed to cover WR's. I'd rather take the healthier, younger option. I guess it all depends on how you think Revis will recover. If he has an Adrian Peterson-like recovery, then Revis is probably still the top guy. But if he loses half a step, he could lose his ability to be that shut-down guy.

With that said, I think there is another guy that is the top CB over both Sherman and Revis.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

   

I don't think you're crazy, but if you're starting a team, I think Sherman is the safer pick.

Revis is coming off of a torn ACL and will be 28 heading into next season. Sherman will be 25 next season, has the size to cover anyone, and no injury concerns. I'd have to imagine that being a CB would be just about the worst position to come back from a torn ACL due to the quick cutting and change of direction needed to cover WR's. I'd rather take the healthier, younger option. I guess it all depends on how you think Revis will recover. If he has an Adrian Peterson-like recovery, then Revis is probably still the top guy. But if he loses half a step, he could lose his ability to be that shut-down guy.

With that said, I think there is another guy that is the top CB over both Sherman and Revis.

 
You like Darius Butler too, huh?

 

[RhaegarTharen]

I'm not really understanding how anyone can bitch about a team picking more than 1 QB. Limiting my team to 1 QB means that I'm forced into picking a below average player early on because nobody wants to get stuck with Mark Sanchez as their only alternative. By only allowing one QB per team, you're giving the teams that already had the advantage (got to pick early and got to pick a solid QB) even more of an advantage because the teams drafting at the bottom all have to scrounge for below level talent early on at a premium position, allowing better players to fall back to the people who draft at the top of the round. That's bullshit. If I want to spend my pick on a few gambles at QB, I should be allowed to.

 
Ehh..I'm almost leaning the other way.  I think there'd be less pressure to spend an early pick on a crappy QB if you knew that you were only competing with the remaining QB-less teams.  That way you dont have to worry about the team with Brady gambling on the young backup QB you decided to take your chances with over Mark Sanchez. 
 
Maybe some sort of compromise would make sense?  Like no backup QB can be taken before the Xth round or something like that?  I don't like the idea of artificially restricting draft strategy that way, but then again this is closer to a fantasy draft (which has roster requirement draft restrictions) so it's not that far-fetched. 

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

 
By only allowing one QB per team, you're giving the teams that already had the advantage (got to pick early and got to pick a solid QB) even more of an advantage because the teams drafting at the bottom all have to scrounge for below level talent early on at a premium position, allowing better players to fall back to the people who draft at the top of the round. That's bullshit.

The whole point of doing a snake draft is so that the talent level evens out, right? I don't see how the guys who have already picked their QB's have any more of an advantage at other positions.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Just started a separate thread and poll for this discussion.

 

[SPDougie]

After the previous two picks you'd think that Theo Epstein was the new GM of the Chargers with the amount of broken chairs in the war room.  Cooler heads prevailed though and a few new names came up on the shortlist.  The QB position is a very scarce resource but there was not enough quality left to justify one of the remaining to be my pick, so I turned my attention back to defense.  A consensus was reached and with the 23rd pick of the first round, the San Diego Super Chargers select:
 

​Geno Atkins, DT, Cincinnati Bengals
 
PFF rated Akins the #1 DT in the NFL in 2012 and it wasn't even close (rated #1 in pass rush as well as #1 in run stopping).  He was 6th in the league in sacks (12.5) to go along with 15 TFF and 35 QB pressures.  A talent like Atkins to play in the middle of the line is a rare commodity and one that the Chargers covet.  Did we mention that he is only 24 years old?  We will be happy to build our defense around this beast for years to come.    

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Love the Geno Atkins pick.

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

At pick 15 I was thinking Eli, Stafford or Geno. 

 

[ragnarok725]

I am of the same mind as the Austin Browns.  There is not much left for QBs out there, and I dont think there are any that justify a first round pick.  So I was planning to go defense, and had Willis in mind, but as someone said above, sometimes the bull gets you....
 
As it is a passing league, and since there is not too much left on the QB side, I figure I need to be able to stop the pass.  However, I am going to move to the back end of the defense.  Someone who can lock up on the top receiver on another team consistently. PFF rates him as the best cover corner in the NFL in 2012, by a pretty wide margin.  FO put him on their 2011 All-Rookie team and had him rated 4th overall as a rookie, so 2012 is not a one year spike in performance.  His passer rating against was 41.1.  He is also going to help set the tone for my defense, which is going to be aggressive and nasty.  He's big (6'3''), he's young (24), and he will hopefully help to make up for what is likely to be a mediocre passing offense for the next five years. With the 22nd pick in the draft, the Intercourse Panthers select Richard Sherman, CB, Seattle Seahawks.
 

 
I've got to say I'm pretty surprised at this pick. I mean, I know Sherman is elite. But better than Revis, who's been doing it for years? Who's been doing it without nearly as good a pass rush as Seattle has, or safety play over his head with Thomas, or as good an opposite CB in Browner (who may even be better than Sherman)? 
 
It just seems like a bit of a gamble when the hands-down best CB in football is still on the board, injury or no injury.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Was hoping (foolishly) that he would make it back to me. Figured it wouldn't happen.

 

[Super Nomario]

I've got to say I'm pretty surprised at this pick. I mean, I know Sherman is elite. But better than Revis, who's been doing it for years? Who's been doing it without nearly as good a pass rush as Seattle has, or safety play over his head with Thomas, or as good an opposite CB in Browner (who may even be better than Sherman)? 
 
It just seems like a bit of a gamble when the hands-down best CB in football is still on the board, injury or no injury.

Revis is coming off a lost season and a major injury. He also missed 3 games in 2010. Sherman is three years younger and four inches bigger. Seattle was actually only average in sack % last year. The Jets were below-average last year, but above-average in 2010 and 2011. FO had Seattle with the #1 DVOA vs #1 receivers last year. I had Sherman higher than Revis on my draft board, too.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

I've got to say I'm pretty surprised at this pick. I mean, I know Sherman is elite. But better than Revis, who's been doing it for years? Who's been doing it without nearly as good a pass rush as Seattle has, or safety play over his head with Thomas, or as good an opposite CB in Browner (who may even be better than Sherman)? 
 
It just seems like a bit of a gamble when the hands-down best CB in football is still on the board, injury or no injury.

 
According to PFF's grades, Revis was off the charts good in 2009, but since then has been up and down.  They had him rated the #20 cover corner in 2010 (I'm not sure I agree with that, given some of the folks that they had ahead of him), but back on top in 2011, although not by a wide margin and not nearly as high as they had him rated in 2009.  As a cover corner, Sherman in 2012 was a lot closer to Revis' 2009 numbers than Revis 2011 was to either Revis 2009 or Sherman 2012.  I also factored in age and the 5 year window, the injury to Revis, and my burning hope that Revis' contract issue turns into a flaming shitshow that tanks the Jets 2013 season before it even starts.  From spring 2012:

 From PFT last spring:
 
The four-year contract Revis signed two years ago paid him $32.5 million in the first two years, but he’s set to make only (only?) $13.5 million over the next two years. At the time he signed that deal, he made clear that he didn’t think a player of his stature should settle for $6.75 million a year, which is what he’ll average in 2012 and 2013.
“If I continue to play ball like I usually do, we’ll probably be back at that same position we were this year,” Revis said in 2010.

    
 
 

   


With that said, I think there is another guy that is the top CB over both Sherman and Revis.

 
 Kyle Arrington isn't walking through that door.
 
I like the Geno Atkins pick as well.  Very disruptive for an interior lineman.

 

[ragnarok725]

Revis is coming off a lost season and a major injury. He also missed 3 games in 2010. Sherman is three years younger and four inches bigger. Seattle was actually only average in sack % last year. The Jets were below-average last year, but above-average in 2010 and 2011. FO had Seattle with the #1 DVOA vs #1 receivers last year. I had Sherman higher than Revis on my draft board, too.

 
The #1 vs. #1 receivers - I didn't watch enough games to know for sure, but was it Sherman covering #1s, or Browner? Did they take sides of the field? Revis has never played with a safety approaching the caliber of Earl Thomas over top. I don't know, the games I saw Sherman play in I was impressed but not blown away. He got burned hard by Julio Jones in the playoffs a couple times (with only one time connecting). The caliber of the defense around him is very high...
 
I guess the more I look at the rest of the CBs out there, the less I'm convinced he's not the best. I just had a gut reaction to seeing him at 15. It seems like buying high after a breakout year.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

As we hit the 23rd pick, here's a quick comparison on 2013 (2009 pos. in parenthesis) > 2009 draft:

1. Aaron Rodgers (32) > Tom Brady
2. Andrew Luck (n/a) > Philip Rivers
3. Tom Brady (1) > Peyton Manning
4. J.J. Watt (n/a) > James Harrison
5. Colin Kaepernick (n/a) > Drew Brees
6. Russell Wilson (n/a) > Ben Roethlisburger
7. Matt Ryan (7) > Matt Ryan
8. Peyton Manning (3) > Ryan Clady
9. Robert Griffin III (n/a) > DeMarcus Ware
10. Calvin Johnson (58) > Carson Palmer
11. Drew Brees (5) > Joe Thomas
12. Ben Roethlisberger (6) > Vince Wilfork
13. Cam Newton (n/a) > Patrick Willis
14. Von Miller (n/a) > Jon Beason
15. Eli Manning (26) > Mario Williams
16. Joe Flacco (84) > Nnmandi Asomugha
17. Aldon Smith (n/a) > Adrian Peterson
18. Jason Pierre-Paul (n/a) > Albert Haynesworth
19. Matthew Stafford (171) > Jay Cutler
20. Tony Romo (21) > Michael Turner
21. Patrick Willis (13) > Tony Romo
22. Richard Sherman (n/a) > Michael Roos
23. Geno Atkins (n/a) > Jason Peters

A couple of quick points:

• 11 out of 23 current picks weren't available in 2009
• 16 out 23 picks from 2009 are not picked in 2013
• 6 out of 2009 picks that made 2013 list are QBs (Patrick Willis the only exception)

 

[Dgilpin]

Last pick was made at 2:15 pm est, Jnai due to be skipped at 8:15 pm correct ?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Last pick was made at 2:15 pm est, Jnai due to be skipped at 8:15 pm correct ?

 
Yup, that's correct.  I just sent him a PM.

 

[soxfan121]

Last I checked, Jnai has been without power due to the storm since late Friday night. I dunno how we want to handle this, as I'm sure he'd be here if he could. 

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

If thats the case, let's cut him some slack and give him a little extra time if necessary.

I'm going to be away from the Internet for the next few hours.

 

[SoxFan58]

Quick scan of team names leaves Eagles, Dolphins, Titans, Raiders, Chiefs.

I'll take the Oakland Raiders

 

[BoSoxFink]

Since I think I am one of the Cardinals, I will take the Chiefs to clear that up.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

And I'll take the Eagles!!

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

So Scoops and Jnai can fight over the Dolphins & Titans. 
 

 

[ilol@u]

Around what time do we expect Jnai to pick? I know he was one of the people affected by the power-outage; I'm 2 picks after him and have classes tomorrow, so I just want a time-frame as to when I should be expected to make my pick and not hold everyone up. 

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Around what time do we expect Jnai to pick? I know he was one of the people affected by the power-outage; I'm 2 picks after him and have classes tomorrow, so I just want a time-frame as to when I should be expected to make my pick and not hold everyone up. 

 
Lets give him an extension until 9AM EST tomorrow.  At that point, whoever is up next should just go ahead.
 
If anybody has his email, I'd appreciate it if they dropped him a line.  I know he has gotten PMs but I don't know whether they go to email.
 
I'm only suggesting this extension because the power outage combined with the start of the timed draft today represents a
pretty unusual set of circumstances.  I think going forward we should adhere strictly to the six hour windows.

 

[Scoops Bolling]

I'll take the Titans.

 

[Dgilpin]

So Jnai is skipped, Danoome on the clock.

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

I'm not sure what would be better:
 
a.) skip and hope he makes it in today to make a late pick, or
 
b.) find someone that is probably lurking in here to make a pick for him until he returns. 

 

[DanoooME]

Let's see, do I want the 16th best QB or one of the best at their other positions?  While I understand the importance of the QB position*, I would prefer to get an elite talent.  This guy is still young (will be 24 going into 2013), catches passes like crazy, scores more than Hugh Hefner on a Viagra bender, and blocks well to boot.  With the 24th pick of the draft, the Seattle Seahawks are proud to welcome Rob Gronkowski, TE to the fold.
 

 
 
* Seahawks best QBs of all time - Hasselbeck, Krieg, Wilson, Zorn, Moon.  Yes, Wilson's already 3rd and that's even with me putting Zorn on a pedestal.  That should tell you about the futility of the QB position in Seattle.  Heck, Russell Wilson is already 8th in career yards passing in Seahawks history.  And he should get to 6th next year.  And 4th by the end of his 3rd year.  Then it's a jump to Zorn in 3rd at just over 20K.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I'm not sure what would be better:
 
a.) skip and hope he makes it in today to make a late pick, or
 
b.) find someone that is probably lurking in here to make a pick for him until he returns. 

 
I've invited ElCab, who is on the waiting list for a team, to make a pick for Jnai and potentially become his Co-GM for the long term.  So we'll see.

 

[Dgilpin]

The Detroit Lions select Joe Thomas LT
 

 
The league is now predominately pass orientated, and if I can't have an elite QB I will have try to build an elite OL. That begins with the LT position, at 29 Thomas is young enough to build around for the next 5 seasons while experienced enough to not be concerned about drop off in production. Thomas is excellent in both the run and pass protection, and known for being a good locker room presence. He will be an excellent addition to the new look Lions

 

[mascho]

Damn.  Nice pick.  Pipe dream but I was hoping he'd somehow make it back to me.  Well done.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I think there are better LTs out there, to be honest. Seems lije a reputation pick ro me.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Hey guys, I'm here. I'll have a pick up for Jnai as soon as I can. 

 

[Jnai]

Nevermind, just read ElCab. I'm sorry to flake out. Didn't even realize I was participating.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Nevermind, just read ElCab. I'm sorry to flake out. Didn't even realize I was participating.

 
No worries.
 
Do you want to co-GM with ElCab? I suggested to him that you guys might co-GM.  Sorry to have made that offer without talking to you first but I didn't know what your situation was.  Anyway, maybe you guys can talk and figure it out.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Nevermind, just read ElCab. I'm sorry to flake out. Didn't even realize I was participating.

 
Jnai, I didn't see your original post. If you've got a pick ready feel free to post it. 

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I think there are better LTs out there, to be honest. Seems lije a reputation pick ro me.

 
Very few wouldn't be happy with Thomas on their team, but I'd agree with KFP here (at least 2 other LT names I can think of.) Also hoping this doesn't start a LT run... 

 

[ilol@u]

I'm here give me 5mins.

 

[ilol@u]

The LOLGaints select ... Adrian Peterson, RB
Gettingna 27 year old MVP RB who single handedly took his team to the playoffs and almost broke the alltime rushing yards in a season? Ill take that. I understand you don't need a Great RB to necessarily win the SperBowl, but this guy took Christian Ponder to the playoffs.
Sorry cant bold And input picture I, I'm class

 

[Dgilpin]

Very few wouldn't be happy with Thomas on their team, but I'd agree with KFP here (at least 2 other LT names I can think of.) Also hoping this doesn't start a LT run... 

Few things I considered with my pick, was one I wanted someone who had produced at a very high level for a few years. Basically a safe pick, there are a 1 or 2 LT's that might have had stronger 2013 but I left the best about Thomas in my OL for the next 5 seasons. Also while Thomas's run blocking my not be elite, I feel is the best pass blocking LT in the game who rarely allows any pressure to the QB. In a league that is becoming more and more pass oriented I felt this was very important.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Alright, I just saw Jnai PM me back saying it was okay to draft for him. So here we go: 
 
With the 24th pick in the draft, the Jnai Dolphins select LT Ryan Clady. 
 

 
Clady will be entrenched at LT, providing blind side protection for whichever crappy QB that winds up taking snaps for our squad.  Just 26 years old, Clady should provide stability to the O line for the next decade. 
 
 

 

[Dgilpin]

Nice pick El Cab, that was the other guy I considered taking

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Nice pick El Cab, that was the other guy I considered taking

 
I was down to picking Clady or Darius Butler, and I'm kind of kicking myself now, but I'm happy to take a guy who is 26 with no injury history and helped keep Peyton's head attached to his shoulders all season.  

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Damn. Really wanted AP. I'm out right now, but I'll post in a bit. Is there a definitive list to see who's been drafted?

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Just checked, the Draft Chart linked in the first post is up to date.

 

[Myt1]

The Detroit Lions select Joe Thomas LT
 

 
The league is now predominately pass orientated, and if I can't have an elite QB I will have try to build an elite OL. That begins with the LT position, at 29 Thomas is young enough to build around for the next 5 seasons while experienced enough to not be concerned about drop off in production. Thomas is excellent in both the run and pass protection, and known for being a good locker room presence. He will be an excellent addition to the new look Lions

 
I'm just glad this picture got re-used.  The Myt Cowboys wish to thank Joe for his contributions and wish him luck in his future endeavors.  He'll be missed.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

With the 28th pick in the draft, the Philadelphia Eagle-Yambags select:
 
Arian Foster, RB
 

 
As much as I would love to take a top WR, CB, or DL, Foster is a beast.  Coming off of three years where he's totaled 5702 yards from scrimmage, Foster is an ideal NFL back -- runs hard, catches passes and can pass block enough to stay on the field for three downs if necessary.  I'm taking a risk by getting a guy who just had 351 rushes, but I feel that Foster is the special kind of back that can stay healthy.

 

[PBDWake]

The Green Bay Packers look forward to starting their franchise with a cornerstone offensive lineman, and therefore select All Pro Tackle Duane Brown

 

[PBDWake]

But yeah. I'd edit again, but every time I do, the img code gets wonky.

With no elite QB left on the board, I think the second most important position is LT. Or maybe it's better to say that especially with no elite QB. There were a number of other potential picks I weighed here, but decided that the drop-off between Duane Brown and the next available LT was bigger than the drop off at any other position likely to make it back to me at this point. Brown's been getting better every year he's been in the league, and was All-Pro last year. And I'd probably be lying if I didn't admit that when searching for the best pictures to post my pick with, Brown having hands down the best of them didn't sway my vote a liiiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit.