Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

scottyno

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I swear all this front office does is actively try to look worse and worse by the day. They say things like Xander is our top priority, we’re actively trying to keep him, people are fired up about what’s coming. But their actions tell you the opposite.
Or they already know that he's going to shop for offers and then they'll be given a chance to match? In which case it wouldn't make much sense for them to make offers now before other teams do.
 

dhappy42

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Why dont we wait until he signs before getting the ptichforks out?

this info could be coming from boras who is know for this type of thing.
Right. It makes sense for the Red Sox to stand down and stay quiet while Boras shops Bogaerts. If it were me I’d say, get back to us with your best offer and we’ll let you know if we can top it.
 

YTF

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Yeah they had their shot last fall to extend him, now it's probably too late unless you break the bank which I don't think they will or should do. It is what it is.

Extend Devers and use stop gaps until Mayer is ready.
In theory they had their shot because he was still with the team, but it was widely reported that Bogaerts had intended to opt out at the end of the season. So with that in mind what do you do to keep him? Breaking the bank is likely what it would have taken to prevent the opt out.
 

IpswichSox

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Right. It makes sense for the Red Sox to stand down and stay quiet while Boras shops Bogaerts. If it were me I’d say, get back to us with your best offer and we’ll let you know if we can top it.
Maybe, but like with the Mets, that final call from the agent could be a courtesy heads up that the player has signed elsewhere.
 

E5 Yaz

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Is the thinking that Turner and Correa are Tier 1 and Xander and Swanson are Tier 2 in terms of salary?
 

brandonchristensen

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In theory they had their shot because he was still with the team, but it was widely reported that Bogaerts had intended to opt out at the end of the season. So with that in mind what do you do to keep him? Breaking the bank is likely what it would have taken to prevent the opt out.
It sounded like the offer they gave him was laughably low. Wasn’t it adding a year at 30M or something?

I don’t think they made any real efforts beyond a token offer.
 

sezwho

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That depends on what the player instructed the agent to do. If X told Boras to give the Sox a chance to match or exceed his offers then that's what Boras will do.
Well, thats what Boras will try to do. What happens if a team makes a take it or leave it offer that hits exceeds the parameters? It seems there have been examples of that already: where the team only makes the streeeetch offer if they know it isn't getting shopped. Yes, Boras could just lie.
 
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DeadlySplitter

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They only "screwed it up" if they ever wanted to retain him. As I said, don't think Chaim ever did - the writing perhaps was on the wall when Mayer was drafted.
 

absintheofmalaise

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Well, thats what Boras will try to do. What happens if a team makes a take it or leave it offer that hits exceeds the parameters? It seems there have been examples of that already: where the team only makes the streeeetch offer if they know it isn't getting shopped. Yes, Boras could just lie.
I didn't see in the article you linked that said that the Rangers made a take it or leave it offer.
The Mets may not have wanted to meet or surpass the Rangers' offer if presented, but it also questions deGrom's willingness to stay in New York.
If X would like to stay in Boston then he will give them an opportunity to match or exceed offers. If he doesn't then it won't matter if they get a chance to match or exceed.
 

chrisfont9

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Jen McCaffery did a column in the Athletic yesterday of Red Sox trade ideas and Bryan Reynolds was the first one she did. She proposed Reynolds to Boston for Mata, Rafaela, and John Schreiber. She went back and forth with Rob Biertempfel, the Pirates writer, and he seemed to think this package would be intriguing for Pittsburgh, but ultimately not the best package you could get for Reynolds due to the uncertainty of Mata and the lavcck of another elite position player prospect. So do you put somebody like Blaze Jordan in there instead of Schrieber?

Her other proposals were the following
--Reese McGuire and Connor Seabold to Minnesota for Max Kepler and RH reliever Griffin Jax
--Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran to Cincinnati for Buck Farmer
--Bobby Dalbec, Reese McGuire, and Brandon Walter to Arizona for Jake McCarthy
--Bobby Dalbec, Ceddanne Rafaela, and Nick Yorke to Oakland for Sean Murphy

https://theathletic.com/3958926/2022/12/02/red-sox-trade-scenarios/
re Reynolds, are we sure there is even a chance of a match here? I don't really see the Sox as a team that will overpay with prospects for cost-controllable major leaguers. Not that they wouldn't be interested at some level, but their salary picture is pretty good going forward, so they have options in free agency, and Chaim has spent three years building up the farm system, so he probably isn't going to blow all that value on the first shiny object. I can see them making an offer but someone else will probably have a higher need for that type of salary and will pay more.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Even if all these sources and stories about the Sox and Boagerts being far apart or not even close are an elaborate plan to generate clicks, or just a negotiating ploy by Boras..neither is good. If they were discussing a deal, we wouldn’t be hearing any negativity from anyone. If the plan is really to being Boagerts back, it doesn’t seem terribly likely at this point, does it? If they aren’t willing to give him what it takes, or find it hard to believe they are going to turn around and give Correa or Swanson something similar.
 

Ganthem

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They only "screwed it up" if they ever wanted to retain him. As I said, don't think Chaim ever did - the writing perhaps was on the wall when Mayer was drafted.
I doubt the decision to draft Myers had anything to do with Xander.
 

LogansDad

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They only "screwed it up" if they ever wanted to retain him. As I said, don't think Chaim ever did - the writing perhaps was on the wall when Mayer was drafted.
I don't buy this. Mayer was easily the best player available, and it was amazing that he fell to them. I don't think Xander going to free agency had anything to do with them drafting him.

I think Bloom is between a rock and a hard place here. The fans are obviously (and rightly, to some extent) antsy since the Mookie deal, but I think Xander is going to get a ludicrously huge deal from some team, and I am not sure it would be good business for the Sox to one up it. I think I would be willing to go 6/$180 for him, in all honesty, but I have a feeling someone is going to do something bananas for him.
 

mikcou

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Even if all these sources and stories about the Sox and Boagerts being far apart or not even close are an elaborate plan to generate clicks, or just a negotiating ploy by Boras..neither is good. If they were discussing a deal, we wouldn’t be hearing any negativity from anyone. If the plan is really to being Boagerts back, it doesn’t seem terribly likely at this point, does it? If they aren’t willing to give him what it takes, or find it hard to believe they are going to turn around and give Correa or Swanson something similar.
I find it almost impossible to believe that Boras is the source of all of these stories - its coming from way too many different places. Its also nonsensical - he has no reason to say the Red Sox havent made a significant offer.

Then again its always been pretty clear to me since the offer last spring that he wasnt coming back unless he unilaterally decided to take way under makret. The offer the Sox made last offseason is not the type of offer that a serious counterparty makes. It was the equivalent of hte people who text you that theyre interested in your non-listed home and offer 50% of market.
 

Seels

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if you want to not be between a rock and a hard place, you facilitate a Devers extension now. I'm bitter/jaded, and can recognize that losing Xander is probably the right baseball move, but also that it's the wrong move for the fans when we signed Trevor Story 9 months ago.
 

DeadlySplitter

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In response: drafting Mayer had little to do with Xander, but as he kept looking legit this season (#7 prospect in baseball now I think?), the idea of having most, if not more, of Xander's production for league minimum in 2-4 years if you just wait has to be appealing to Bloom.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Even if all these sources and stories about the Sox and Boagerts being far apart or not even close are an elaborate plan to generate clicks, or just a negotiating ploy by Boras..neither is good. If they were discussing a deal, we wouldn’t be hearing any negativity from anyone. If the plan is really to being Boagerts back, it doesn’t seem terribly likely at this point, does it? If they aren’t willing to give him what it takes, or find it hard to believe they are going to turn around and give Correa or Swanson something similar.
Two days ago, the hot rumor was that the Sox and Bogaerts were on good terms and they were agreed that the Sox would get a chance to match his best offer. Now we're back to cold shoulders and ill will. All of this is the media, and as a result the fan base, getting all wound up and anxious over there being no real news of substance yet. It's the silly season, and everyone's being silly.
 

amfox1

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if you want to not be between a rock and a hard place, you facilitate a Devers extension now. I'm bitter/jaded, and can recognize that losing Xander is probably the right baseball move, but also that it's the wrong move for the fans when we signed Trevor Story 9 months ago.
Do you believe the Red Sox are not "facilitating" a Devers extension?
What do you believe constitutes "facilitating" a Devers extension?
Xander was always going to test free agency. That's why he hired Scott Boras as his advisor. If Xander doesn't allow his last and best offer to be matched by the Red Sox, that's on him. If he does and the Red Sox don't match (as I suspect they won't, if given the opportunity), that's on the Red Sox. The Red Sox clearly could have made a market-based offer last offseason but chose to make an under-market offer designed to be rejected, so here we are.
 

Ganthem

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if you want to not be between a rock and a hard place, you facilitate a Devers extension now. I'm bitter/jaded, and can recognize that losing Xander is probably the right baseball move, but also that it's the wrong move for the fans when we signed Trevor Story 9 months ago.
I could honestly give two shits what the fans want. If Bloom starts running this team based on what the fans want the Sox are in deep trouble.
 

joe dokes

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So some here are willing to believe the latest from Pete Abe, but not the previous "sox will get chance to match" rumor. Either eat all the bullshit, or none of it. No halfsies just because it jibes with how one feels about Bloom.
 

mr_smith02

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if you want to not be between a rock and a hard place, you facilitate a Devers extension now. I'm bitter/jaded, and can recognize that losing Xander is probably the right baseball move, but also that it's the wrong move for the fans when we signed Trevor Story 9 months ago.
I truly believe, no matter what lip service has been paid to the fan base, the Red Sox do not plan on signing both Boagerts and Devers. So, in a purely "What's Best for the Team's Future?" mindset, they let Bogaerts walk and use some of that money to lock down Devers.
 

PedroKsBambino

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They only "screwed it up" if they ever wanted to retain him. As I said, don't think Chaim ever did - the writing perhaps was on the wall when Mayer was drafted.
I don’t think Mayer being drafted has anything to do with Bogaerts. I do think that part of the rationale for signing Story always was that it gave them a hedge for Xander, given the risk he’d be priced into the stratosphere. I don’t think it is a lot more complicated than that they have a number or a narrow range and if he’s not within it they are comfortable moving on to plan B. And while it is uncertain Story is plan B at SS, adding a quality hitting MI makes their Plan B more viable than it otherwise would have been.

Not saying I agree or would not miss X; that’s just my assessmnent of FO/ownership approach
 

snowmanny

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The odd thing -and the embarrassing thing - would be to make a big fuss about not trading him at the deadline because re-signing him is absolutely unequivocally your number one priority, and THEN not making a competitive offer when you are, in fact, John Henry and the Boston Red Sox.

Seems logically implausible so I’ll wait and see.
 

Steve Dillard

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The odd thing -and the embarrassing thing - would be to make a big fuss about not trading him at the deadline because re-signing him is absolutely unequivocally your number one priority, and THEN not making a competitive offer when you are, in fact, John Henry and the Boston Red Sox.

Seems logically implausible so I’ll wait and see.
I think they did not really want Bogaerts at market, but could not admit it at the deadline. So, like their other deadline moves (being sellers at the deadline, but wanting to look like you are not throwing in the towel, so failing to get under the luxury tax threshold) it is a mistake. I'm not in the "Sox are all pr" but I do think Chaim was indecisive and so the trade deadline fiasco stems from all of that. We are now in a situation where our comp picks for Xander will be two rounds later, and if we sign a QO free agent to replace him (i.e., anyone other than Correa) the penalties will be far more draconian than had we been decisive (but unpopular) at the deadline. We will lose second round picks and a million in International money rather than a 4th round pick.

I'm all for drawing the line on Xander, but if you are of that view, then they should have acted differently to permit them to make the necessary moves this offseason to really build the team Chaim wanted.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think they did not really want Bogaerts at market, but could not admit it at the deadline. So, like their other deadline moves (being sellers at the deadline, but wanting to look like you are not throwing in the towel, so failing to get under the luxury tax threshold) it is a mistake. I'm not in the "Sox are all pr" but I do think Chaim was indecisive and so the trade deadline fiasco stems from all of that. We are now in a situation where our comp picks for Xander will be two rounds later, and if we sign a QO free agent to replace him (i.e., anyone other than Correa) the penalties will be far more draconian than had we been decisive (but unpopular) at the deadline. We will lose second round picks and a million in International money rather than a 4th round pick.

I'm all for drawing the line on Xander, but if you are of that view, then they should have acted differently to permit them to make the necessary moves this offseason to really build the team Chaim wanted.
I agree—-I would have made a deadline deal for him, personally. I believe they are struggling with ownership not loving the idea they were out of it and reality being that they were going to lose him for draft picks. I certainly believe they could have gotten more at deadline.
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

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The odd thing -and the embarrassing thing - would be to make a big fuss about not trading him at the deadline because re-signing him is absolutely unequivocally your number one priority, and THEN not making a competitive offer when you are, in fact, John Henry and the Boston Red Sox.

Seems logically implausible so I’ll wait and see.
If after saying that resigning Xander is the #1 priority this off season and then not making a competitive offer one of two things would be true; either they totally misread the market which would show gross incompetence, or they were just lying in order to placate the fan base. I don't know which is worse.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I don’t doubt that Boras is willing to extend the Sox the courtesy of beating the best offer he as at the last minute (although of course that can change once we get there), but I’m struggling to see any evidence that the Sox are interested in retaining him at will cost. They offered 4/80 yet are gonna match 8/200 or whatever at the last minute? Color me skeptical. If they wanted to keep him they would have made some serious offers by now.

As to why they’d didn’t deal him at the deadline (he had a no trade), they wanted to keep up the mirage of quasi-contending, but also I think they knew this was the only organization he’d ever known and tried to use that to their advantage by trying to get him to not opt out and then the half ass offer. I think that at this point he’s certainly envisions himself playing elsewhere as a reality and probably more likely than not.
 

buttons

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I could honestly give two shits what the fans want. If Bloom starts running this team based on what the fans want the Sox are in deep trouble.
I would like to believe that Bloom was serious when he said we will be be competitive
every year, and Kennedy spoke with knowledge when he said lots will be happening very soon. What the fans want is a team that will be fun to root for and capable at a minimum of making the playoffs. While I would be sorry if we don’t retain Bogarts. I would be ok with it if when the dust settles we field a team capable of winning our division.
I don’t believe this can happen without making several major (expensive) moves.
to quote a major restaurant motto “the bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of cheap price has disappeared “
 

Ganthem

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I agree—-I would have made a deadline deal for him, personally. I believe they are struggling with ownership not loving the idea they were out of it and reality being that they were going to lose him for draft picks. I certainly believe they could have gotten more at deadline.
As of August second the Red Sox were two games out of the wild card race. There was reasons to believe that some players were going to come back from the DL and that the Sox could make a run. Based on the standings and the expected return of certain players, there was no disconnect or wierdness in how the deadline played out. Bloom got rid of a players he didn't think highly of (Vaz and Diekman) and he brought in some players he thought could be helpful to a wild card push (Hosmer, Mcguire, Pham). Any notion they were out of it at the trade deadline is revisionist nonsense.
 
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Ganthem

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If after saying that resigning Xander is the #1 priority this off season and then not making a competitive offer one of two things would be true; either they totally misread the market which would show gross incompetence, or they were just lying in order to placate the fan base. I don't know which is worse.
Misreading the market happens. It is why teams have backup plans. We obviously have to see what Bogey gets, but if it is 200 million plus, I don't think many people predicted that.
I would like to believe that Bloom was serious when he said we will be be competitive
every year, and Kennedy spoke with knowledge when he said lots will be happening very soon. What the fans want is a team that will be fun to root for and capable at a minimum of making the playoffs. While I would be sorry if we don’t retain Bogarts. I would be ok with it if when the dust settles we field a team capable of winning our division.
I don’t believe this can happen without making several major (expensive) moves.
to quote a major restaurant motto “the bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of cheap price has disappeared “
The Sox can choose to not sign Bogey and to trade Devers and they can still put a competitive team down. Fans don't like losing their binky and when it does happen they throw a temper tantrum. That is not to say that the above scenario does not make things harder, but it is not anywhere close to being impossible.
 

woodros04!

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The Red Sox appear to be lying to the very people who have made them rich. It's disgusting. Boegarts hasn't gotten a competitive offer. They are treating us all as though we are stupid.
 

mikcou

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Misreading the market happens. It is why teams have backup plans. We obviously have to see what Bogey gets, but if it is 200 million plus, I don't think many people predicted that.

The Sox can choose to not sign Bogey and to trade Devers and they can still put a competitive team down. Fans don't like losing their binky and when it does happen they throw a temper tantrum. That is not to say that the above scenario does not make things harder, but it is not anywhere close to being impossible.
The absolute basement for Xander onthe FA market was always $175-180M. 200-225M should have been a reasonable expectation last March based on last winter's market. Basically every 4+ win player last year got 175M+. Kris Bryant (hadnt had a 4 win year since 2018) got 185M. Semien (two really good 6 win seasons and a bunch of average play) got 175M at 31.

I have to say people who though Xander was going to be in the 150-180M werent paying attention.

Edit: Calling Xander a 4 win player is also selling him short - thats been his basement since 2018. A number of years hes been better.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Totally agree; the floor for a Bogaerts deal was always Semien’s 7/175. Maybe if they offer him that or a little more a year ago, the deal is done. Not really sure what they were trying to accomplish with the 4/80 thing.
 

Ganthem

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The absolute basement for Xander onthe FA market was always $175-180M. 200-225M should have been a reasonable expectation last March based on last winter's market. Basically every 4+ win player last year got 175M+. Kris Bryant (hadnt had a 4 win year since 2018) got 185M. Semien (two really good 6 win seasons and a bunch of average play) got 175M at 31.

I have to say people who though Xander was going to be in the 150-180M werent paying attention.

Edit: Calling Xander a 4 win player is also selling him short - thats been his basement since 2018. A number of years hes been better.
MLBtraderumors has Xander at 7 years and 189 million. ESPN had Bogey anywhere from five years 150 million to seven years 196 million. Most of the writers were in the six year 180 million dollar range. The Atheletic was 7 years 196 million.
Rather then go on, what it seems like is most sports writers felt he was going to get six to seven years in the 180 million dollar range. There were some outliers that thought that he was going to sign for 150 million or over 190 million. So I am not sure that Bloom pegging Bogey at around 170 to 180 was far fetched. Obviously we don't know how this story will end, but it could be that Bloom was committed to bringing Bogey back and then when he saw the numbers of teams interested and realized the price had gone above 200 million he decided to back off.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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MLBtraderumors has Xander at 7 years and 189 million. ESPN had Bogey anywhere from five years 150 million to seven years 196 million. Most of the writers were in the six year 180 million dollar range. The Atheletic was 7 years 196 million.
Rather then go on, what it seems like is most sports writers felt he was going to get six to seven years in the 180 million dollar range. There were some outliers that thought that he was going to sign for 150 million or over 190 million. So I am not sure that Bloom pegging Bogey at around 170 to 180 was far fetched. Obviously we don't know how this story will end, but it could be that Bloom was committed to bringing Bogey back and then when he saw the numbers of teams interested and realized the price had gone above 200 million he decided to back off.
Ok, if Bloom pegged him at 170/180, what the heck was 4/80 all about? It was a laughable gesture that potentially poisoned the entire negotiations; not to mention pissed the player off for the whole season. Hopefully they recover from it, get a deal done, and we can all laugh about this. But it was a pretty dumb move.
 

Yaz4Ever

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The Red Sox appear to be lying to the very people who have made them rich. It's disgusting. Boegarts hasn't gotten a competitive offer. They are treating us all as though we are stupid.
Let’s settle down a bit before getting upset about things that haven’t happened. None of us is privy to the negotiations so we can’t say which side, if any, is acting in bad faith. I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of action involving the Sox this offseason. Some we may love and some not so much. Until the dust settles, I’m going to suggest we keep our emotions in check.
 

GB5

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I have always been curious about the verification of an offer process. So Bogey says he and Boras will give the RS the right to match the best offer. For argument sakes let’s say the best offer at the end of the day is the Cubs at 6/180. Do they give that offer in writing to Boras, or is it over the phone?
Boras walks into the RS office and says I have 7/210 from the Cubs. Do the Sox say “BS, show me the offer in writing?” Does word get around the baseball execs that the Cubs offered 6/180?
Let’s just say after the negotiations end the Sox find out Boras lied. Is that just agenting, is it so distasteful that the Sox say we need to validate every single thing Boras ever brings to us?
 

Ganthem

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Ok, if Bloom pegged him at 170/180, what the heck was 4/80 all about? It was a laughable gesture that potentially poisoned the entire negotiations; not to mention pissed the player off for the whole season. Hopefully they recover from it, get a deal done, and we can all laugh about this. But it was a pretty dumb move.
The 4/90 that Bloom offered could have been an opening offer or it could have been poking around to see Bogey was willing to take another team friendly contract or it could have been a low ball offer. Who knows. We don't know what contract Bogey is going to sign yet, but if he does sign for over 200 million nobody saw that coming and nobody should be penalized for not seeing that coming.
 
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mikcou

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MLBtraderumors has Xander at 7 years and 189 million. ESPN had Bogey anywhere from five years 150 million to seven years 196 million. Most of the writers were in the six year 180 million dollar range. The Atheletic was 7 years 196 million.
Rather then go on, what it seems like is most sports writers felt he was going to get six to seven years in the 180 million dollar range. There were some outliers that thought that he was going to sign for 150 million or over 190 million. So I am not sure that Bloom pegging Bogey at around 170 to 180 was far fetched. Obviously we don't know how this story will end, but it could be that Bloom was committed to bringing Bogey back and then when he saw the numbers of teams interested and realized the price had gone above 200 million he decided to back off.
I dont really care what ESPN or MLB trade rumors had as an estimate - I dont follow them, wouldnt know what they say and they are not decision makers. If Bloom looked at the market last year and thought "I can get Bogaerts in a FA market for 170M without a significant home town discount" thats a misreading of the market bordering on inept. Personally, I dont think thats at all what is happening and that they were never really planning to bring him back and its all been a PR facade.

Again, Semien got $175M, Bryant $180M and Story (a much lesser player with a messed up elbow) $140M. Its not reasonable to look at those numbers and think that Xander at full value is less than $175M as a basement 10th percentile valuation. Just standard inflation over the past year (7.5% or so) has 2021 $175M as close to $190M. It was always going to be $190-$220M depending on how much a team fell in love with him.
 

JCizzle

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The 4/90 that Bloom offered could have been an opening offer or it could have been poking around to see Bogey was willing to take another team friendly contract or it could have been a low ball offer. Who knows. We don't know what contract Bogey is going to sign yet, but if he does sign for over 200 million nobody saw that coming and nobody should be penalized for not seeing that coming.
Why not? These people are in extremely desirable, high-paying positions. Isn't part of their job to project the future and plan accordingly? They should have access to more information than basically anyone else to project this stuff out, certainly us folks on a message board.
 

JM3

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So Bloom was supposed to project that X was a $200m player & sign him for a discount prior to X hitting free agency but Boras was going to...not realize that?

X having full no trade would have complicated the hell out of trying to trade him & so it just kind of is what it is.
 

Benj4ever

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So Bloom was supposed to project that X was a $200m player & sign him for a discount prior to X hitting free agency but Boras was going to...not realize that?

X having full no trade would have complicated the hell out of trying to trade him & so it just kind of is what it is.
If someone wants to give X $200M at his age, let them make that mistake (it's called the "Winner's Curse").
 

jon abbey

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The famous quote about how 'baseball is designed to break your heart' is maybe never more accurate than in the way the FA process often plays out.
 

JCizzle

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Dec 11, 2006
21,759
So Bloom was supposed to project that X was a $200m player & sign him for a discount prior to X hitting free agency but Boras was going to...not realize that?

X having full no trade would have complicated the hell out of trying to trade him & so it just kind of is what it is.
Maybe there's a more aggressive middle ground offer last year between $200M and 4/$90M if he really is a $200M guy. There seems to be a somewhat common theme pre-dating Bloom with the Red Sox dramatically undervaluing their own guys (e.g. Lester, Mookie), which leads to questionable contracts for outside talent at the expense of their own players.