Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,573
Soooo, a bullshitter. Can we stop with the unverified, anonymous twitter accounts as rumor sources? I know this thread has been a clown show since it opened, but we're supposed to be better than this.
I disagree on this as I said before, it's a rumors thread and the anonymous Twitter accounts are on average more informed and accurate than most of the print sources that are just click-baiting other people's rumors or guesses from two weeks ago. I do think starting a new thread reporting this as actual news was wrong, and so that thread is now locked.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,529
Maine
I disagree on this as I said before, it's a rumors thread and the anonymous Twitter accounts are on average more informed and accurate than most of the print sources that are just click-baiting other people's rumors or guesses from two weeks ago. I do think starting a new thread reporting this as actual news was wrong, and so that thread is now locked.
At least there's some basis to think that while the real journalists might be click-baiting (I hate that too), at least they have known connections to teams and players and agents. There is ZERO reason to believe these anonymous twitter creatures have a shred of credibility when they post bullshit and sucker people into believing it. It's beneath the standards of this site to allow them to be brought even into a rumors thread as if they're worth our time. But whatever. I know when to stop beating my head against the wall.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,573
At least there's some basis to think that while the real journalists might be click-baiting (I hate that too), at least they have known connections to teams and players and agents. There is ZERO reason to believe these anonymous twitter creatures have a shred of credibility when they post bullshit and sucker people into believing it. It's beneath the standards of this site to allow them to be brought even into a rumors thread as if they're worth our time. But whatever. I know when to stop beating my head against the wall.
I think there are three basic categories here (maybe I'm forgetting something):

1) Actual reporters like Olney and Passan. Their tweets/rumors are generally based in some kind of reality but on the flip side, they are accountable to the teams and players involved, and so I think not much exciting leaks out this way.

2) The 22 year olds posting 'stories' with clickbait links to some other old rumors, these IMO should never be posted. If you need to post, at least click through to the original story that they are riffing off of and decide whether that is worth posting. NJ.com specializes in this shit, many other places too (there were some msn ones upthread).

3) Anonymous tweets. I am personally a fan of these while keeping in mind they are often full of shit, but these days this is the way many moves actually leak. I agree with you in general about standards on the main board, but I think those are different in a 'rumors' thread titled as such. You disagree, I respect that.
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

No more Ramon
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2006
2,421
Yuli. Some twitter insiders are saying a possible deal.
If there is any truth to this I'll be glad I just started getting into cricket. I can't root for a team that employs Yuli Gurriel without anything approaching an adequate public reckoning for his racist behavior.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,529
Maine
3) Anonymous tweets. I am personally a fan of these while keeping in mind they are often full of shit, but these days this is the way many moves actually leak. I agree with you in general about standards on the main board, but I think those are different in a 'rumors' thread titled as such. You disagree, I respect that.
Fair enough. Would it be too much to ask that if someone is bringing one of these tweets to the thread, even the lowly unimportant "rumors" thread, they provide something to justify why we should consider it? We ask that in other areas of the forum when an unknown twitter account is cited. It could even be as simple as "I know this guy has no credibility, but what would a Yuli Gurriel signing look like for the Sox?" Using the random tweet as a jumping off point for discussion might be more interesting than just throwing it out and getting folks worked up or upset about something that has a 99.9% of being entirely false.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,573
Fair enough. Would it be too much to ask that if someone is bringing one of these tweets to the thread, even the lowly unimportant "rumors" thread, they provide something to justify why we should consider it? We ask that in other areas of the forum when an unknown twitter account is cited. It could even be as simple as "I know this guy has no credibility, but what would a Yuli Gurriel signing look like for the Sox?" Using the random tweet as a jumping off point for discussion might be more interesting than just throwing it out and getting folks worked up or upset about something that has a 99.9% of being entirely false.
If it's presented as news, as a fait accompli, then the poster should be careful about checking the reputability of the source, which was the issue here.

If it's a rumor ('the Red Sox are interested in Yuri Gurriel'), I think that just presenting it here as is is OK, basically bringing it to people's attention, and any discussion can start there. I agree that it's a problem when faulty info launches a discussion as if it's true, but a 'rumor' thread is the rare place where I think that is less of an issue. Most rumors don't end up happening, true or not, and once/if they do, then they are news and should be in a new/different thread.
 

bsj

Renegade Crazed Genius
SoSH Member
Dec 6, 2003
22,832
Central NJ SoSH Chapter
This is a rumor thread in which 90% of posts contain no rumor. I saw something on Twitter that multiple secondary people were tweeting. I literally just asked a question as to whether anyone else is hearing anything about it.
 

Eddie Bressoud

New Member
Aug 3, 2014
57
Think second/short is the bigger issue than a combo for Casas. My opinion is the Sox plan to run Casas out every day. Not sure what that means for Bobby D.
 

dynomite

Member
SoSH Member
Wondering if Wacha is still in the mix for SP depth if the price and term are right. Is a 2/$20 something to consider?

Only rumors are the Twins might be interest.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/mlb-rumors-twins-have-shown-interest-rhp-michael-wacha
If reports are right and the Sox only have ~$10M left under the CBT threshold I doubt they’d use up their remaining room on another #3/4 starter.

Sale / Kluber / Pivetta / Bello / Whitlock / Paxton / Houck already gives them a fair amount of potential starters. I still feel the rotation is missing another top end talent, but they do have relatively good depth.

If they’re going to sign someone I would rather it be a legitimate 2B like Iglesias or (pretty please) a trade for Adames that keeps Story at 2B, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re comfortable going with Arroyo and hoping Valdez can come up in June/July.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
If reports are right and the Sox only have ~$10M left under the CBT threshold I doubt they’d use up their remaining room on another #3/4 starter.

Sale / Kluber / Pivetta / Bello / Whitlock / Paxton / Houck already gives them a fair amount of potential starters. I still feel the rotation is missing another top end talent, but they do have relatively good depth.

If they’re going to sign someone I would rather it be a legitimate 2B like Iglesias or (pretty please) a trade for Adames that keeps Story at 2B, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re comfortable going with Arroyo and hoping Valdez can come up in June/July.
If they go with Arroyo they're going to need another MI before June/July. Unless you're depending on RFsnyder, in which case there is still going to be another need to fill a bench slot.
 

Whoop-La White

used to be zougwa
SoSH Member
If these Gurriel rumors are to be believed, one would think Dalbec is on the block. How would he fit into the deal with the Marlins? They signed Segura for 3B (could potentially move to 2B) and have Garrett Cooper at DH/1B. They also haven't really replaced Aguilar, whom they cut toward the end of last year. They used Lewin Diaz (since claimed off waivers) and Charles Leblanc (DFAd for Segura) at 1B in September.
 

TimScribble

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,483
If these Gurriel rumors are to be believed, one would think Dalbec is on the block. How would he fit into the deal with the Marlins? They signed Segura for 3B (could potentially move to 2B) and have Garrett Cooper at DH/1B. They also haven't really replaced Aguilar, whom they cut toward the end of last year. They used Lewin Diaz (since claimed off waivers) and Charles Leblanc (DFAd for Segura) at 1B in September.
I think you’d want to take the same exercise on the other rumored trade partners as well. Padres (Kim) and Angels (Brasier). Does Dalbec have any options left?
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2022
1,245
Think second/short is the bigger issue than a combo for Casas. My opinion is the Sox plan to run Casas out every day. Not sure what that means for Bobby D.
That has to be the plan regarding Casas. If it's not, trading Casas makes more sense.

All I mean by that is I think we all understand the issues Casas had hitting LHP at the upper levels of the minors (and of course the Sox do to). They also have far more information on the player than we do, so if they think that those issues are something he can work on / improve at based on their internal scouting, then he plays every single day at first base, with the exception of "normal" days off for any player. If they think they truly need to find a RHH platoon option for Casas because they don't believe he'll be able to hit LHP, then you work hard to find someone whom values him as an everyday piece / disagrees with your scouting take.

For instance, something like Casas for Lopez and Dax Fulton checks out on BTV. I'm not really advocating for or against such a move, more illustrating the point that Bloom and baseball OPS don't think Casas is a full time player, find someone whom does and maximize the value. If they DO think he's a full time player, than you don't worry too much about the RHH side of the 1b equation and fill that on the cheap for the 15 or so games Casas will get a rest through the year.
 

SouthernBoSox

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2005
12,125
They are not trading Casas for pitching. It goes against every single move they have made the last 2 years.

Everything about Casas approach, dedication to hitting, strike zone judgement, would lead you to believe he will hit left handed pitching.

People, I believe, are not properly discounting his age. Debuting at 21 and showing the type of strike zone judgment is exceedingly rare. He will be 22 years old for the entirety of the 2023 season. He's unbelievably young.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,951
They are not trading Casas for pitching. It goes against every single move they have made the last 2 years.

Everything about Casas approach, dedication to hitting, strike zone judgement, would lead you to believe he will hit left handed pitching.

People, I believe, are not properly discounting his age. Debuting at 21 and showing the type of strike zone judgment is exceedingly rare. He will be 22 years old for the entirety of the 2023 season. He's unbelievably young.
Yeah. I mean, I would be shocked if the Sox traded Casas, it would be completely out of character for them. And I think that while Casas should have as many at bats as he needs, he also needs a caddie and Dalbec isn't that dude. I thought that they'd keep Hosmer because he was cheap, but it appears that if the Gurriel rumors are true it would be him. Though I have to ask why would you spend more money on Gurriel when he and Hosmer provide about the same amount of production?

Last year Hosmer hit .268/.334/.382 with eight homers and Gurriel hit .242/.334/.382 with eight homers. Why would the Sox invest more money for less production?
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
17,301
Yeah. I mean, I would be shocked if the Sox traded Casas, it would be completely out of character for them. And I think that while Casas should have as many at bats as he needs, he also needs a caddie and Dalbec isn't that dude. I thought that they'd keep Hosmer because he was cheap, but it appears that if the Gurriel rumors are true it would be him. Though I have to ask why would you spend more money on Gurriel when he and Hosmer provide about the same amount of production?

Last year Hosmer hit .268/.334/.382 with eight homers and Gurriel hit .242/.334/.382 with eight homers. Why would the Sox invest more money for less production?
Hosmer is a lefty & Gurriel is a righty. To the extent that they would rest Casas, it would be against tough lefties. & the Red Sox were paying Hosmer the minimum, but his AAV was higher, so there's no guarantee a Gurriel contract would have a higher AAV than Hosmer's.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,415
Yeah. I mean, I would be shocked if the Sox traded Casas, it would be completely out of character for them. And I think that while Casas should have as many at bats as he needs, he also needs a caddie and Dalbec isn't that dude. I thought that they'd keep Hosmer because he was cheap, but it appears that if the Gurriel rumors are true it would be him. Though I have to ask why would you spend more money on Gurriel when he and Hosmer provide about the same amount of production?

Last year Hosmer hit .268/.334/.382 with eight homers and Gurriel hit .242/.334/.382 with eight homers. Why would the Sox invest more money for less production?
Turner is that dude.

Gurriel to the Sox makes no sense, for either side. He can have a more clear path to playing time elsewhere and the Sox need a bench player who can play the OF.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
Yeah. I mean, I would be shocked if the Sox traded Casas, it would be completely out of character for them. And I think that while Casas should have as many at bats as he needs, he also needs a caddie and Dalbec isn't that dude. I thought that they'd keep Hosmer because he was cheap, but it appears that if the Gurriel rumors are true it would be him. Though I have to ask why would you spend more money on Gurriel when he and Hosmer provide about the same amount of production?

Last year Hosmer hit .268/.334/.382 with eight homers and Gurriel hit .242/.334/.382 with eight homers. Why would the Sox invest more money for less production?
Preference for a RH bat?
 

BringBackMo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,382
Yeah. I mean, I would be shocked if the Sox traded Casas, it would be completely out of character for them. And I think that while Casas should have as many at bats as he needs, he also needs a caddie and Dalbec isn't that dude. I thought that they'd keep Hosmer because he was cheap, but it appears that if the Gurriel rumors are true it would be him. Though I have to ask why would you spend more money on Gurriel when he and Hosmer provide about the same amount of production?

Last year Hosmer hit .268/.334/.382 with eight homers and Gurriel hit .242/.334/.382 with eight homers. Why would the Sox invest more money for less production?
Hosmer is a lefty like Casas. Casas gets all those at bats this year. They may want someone who hits righty, as Gurriel does.

Edit: My post is essentially a duplicate as others have already chimed in. Reiterating, though, that I personally doubt Gurriel is coming to the Sox. They don't need another 1b/DH type.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,951
Hosmer is a lefty & Gurriel is a righty. To the extent that they would rest Casas, it would be against tough lefties. & the Red Sox were paying Hosmer the minimum, but his AAV was higher, so there's no guarantee a Gurriel contract would have a higher AAV than Hosmer's.
Preference for a RH bat?
Ahhh, I forgot about Hosmer being a lefty and Gurriel being a righty. I was just looking at their numbers from last year and it wasn't adding up to me. But it makes sense now.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,529
Maine
Preference for a RH bat?
They still have Dalbec, and while a lot of folks around here are down on him, I fail to see how a 38 year old who was barely better than Dalbec last year is any kind of upgrade. If you limit Dalbec to just facing LHP, he's a pretty potent bat (.268/.333/.522/.855, 19 HR in 330 career PA)
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
Turner is that dude.

Gurriel to the Sox makes no sense, for either side. He can have a more clear path to playing time elsewhere and the Sox need a bench player who can play the OF.
I think some of us hoped that he might be. The reality is that in 14 seasons he's played in 1183 MLB games and has only appeared in 39 games at 1B (25 starts) over parts of 5 seasons and hasn't done so since 2016.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
They still have Dalbec, and while a lot of folks around here are down on him, I fail to see how a 38 year old who was barely better than Dalbec last year is any kind of upgrade. If you limit Dalbec to just facing LHP, he's a pretty potent bat (.268/.333/.522/.855, 19 HR in 330 career PA)
I think that most speculation regarding Gurial hinges on the idea that Dalbec is included in a deal that helps fill another need.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,529
Maine
I think some of us hoped that he might be. The reality is that in 14 seasons he's played in 1183 MLB games and has only appeared in 39 games at 1B (25 starts) over parts of 5 seasons and hasn't done so since 2016.
Since 2016, his teammates have included Adrian Gonzalez, Cody Bellinger, Max Muncy, Albert Pujols, and Freddie Freeman. It could be his lack of playing time at 1B is simply a result of lack of opportunity/need rather than an inability to do the job.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,415
I think some of us hoped that he might be. The reality is that in 14 seasons he's played in 1183 MLB games and has only appeared in 39 games at 1B (25 starts) over parts of 5 seasons and hasn't done so since 2016.
Isn't the reality that he was more valuable as a 3B? Trevor Story had played 0 innings at 2B until last year, but it wasn't because he couldn't handle it.
 

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
30,699
Alamogordo
I think some of us hoped that he might be. The reality is that in 14 seasons he's played in 1183 MLB games and has only appeared in 39 games at 1B (25 starts) over parts of 5 seasons and hasn't done so since 2016.
I don't think that means he can't play 1B, just that the Dodgers didn't have a need to have him play over there. Since 2016 they have had Bellinger, Muncy and Freeman at 1B, all three of whom are (were*) pretty good players at those times.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,415
Did I misunderstand. I thought you were saying that Turner's the RH side of the 1B equation?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. In Los Angeles he was best used as a 3B, so that's where he played. In 2023 with Boston, he will be a 1B/DH because that's where he is most valuable. His not playing 1B before was not because he couldn't handle it.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
22,105
Rogers Park
I think some of us hoped that he might be. The reality is that in 14 seasons he's played in 1183 MLB games and has only appeared in 39 games at 1B (25 starts) over parts of 5 seasons and hasn't done so since 2016.
The Red Sox announced Turner as a DH/1B.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2022
1,245
Turner is that dude.

Gurriel to the Sox makes no sense, for either side. He can have a more clear path to playing time elsewhere and the Sox need a bench player who can play the OF.
Exactly. To be clear, I wasn't saying that we should trade Casas for that, I was saying that I don't think the Red Sox are already saying Casas needs to have a platoon partner. You have someone (Turner) who can spell him for 15 games or whatever the number is that a starting player gets off for regular rest during the season.

IF the Red Sox are of the opinion that Casas is only and will ever only be the strong side of a platoon (I doubt they are) then you trade him. I think they will (and probably should) just make him their every day 1b option; and hopefully find someone that thinks more of Dalbec than him just being the weak side of a platoon. No idea if there are organizations out there who think that, obviously.

It shouldn't be a RH side of 1b, it should be someone whom can play there 15 times a year, probably against the toughest LHP on your schedule. Turner fits that.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. In Los Angeles he was best used as a 3B, so that's where he played. In 2023 with Boston, he will be a 1B/DH because that's where he is most valuable. His not playing 1B before was not because he couldn't handle it.
I never claimed that he couldn't handle, nor am I a huge supporter of Gurriel coming in. What I am doing is taking part in a discussion with folks try to assess the hows and whys of a potential signing. Does he seem redundant considering other moves made so far? In some ways yes and that's why I'm not overly enthused here, but Gurriel could well be a more dependable glove and that may be a consideration when you consider some of the glove play we've seen there recently.