Report: A-Rod banned through 2014?

jon abbey

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What's the White Sox equivalent of SoSH? I hope there is some serious organized booing tonight, I really want to see him cry on the field or in the dugout.
 

soxhop411

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Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:
Sons of Britt Burns.
 
I don't think we have to worry about the South Siders booing tonight.  They live for this shit.
and its not like this bombshell is fresh. we have known about it since the start of the season... Plenty of time for the Boo's to brew
 
I also want to hear Hawk's reaction...
 

Oil Can Dan

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''We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction,'' Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston. It is understandable, but wrong that he would try to deflect the accountability for his mistakes on to others and to a system for which he voted in favor. It is time to get on with life and forget the sour grapes.''
 
George Steinbrenner, circa Feb 2004
 

Harry Hooper

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
I think it is.  He was probably facing 100 games as a repeat offender and rather than have anything carry over to next season, he negotiated his sentence down to run out with the end of this season.
 
Yeah, but the positive test result for the first offense was vacated, so MLB may not have been able to make their threat of a 100-game suspension stick. Braun seems to have had an excellent chance of getting it cut to 50 games, but 65 was close enough for him to sign the agreement. An interesting thing to ask him or MLB is what happens if he fails another test.
 
 
Per ESPN, the Rodriguez suspension is 100 games for PED use, and 111 games for other stuff. I doubt the MLBPA agrees with MLB putting him immediately at repeat offender status, and we'll see how it feels about the additional 111 games. 
 

soxhop411

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Harry Hooper said:
 
Yeah, but the positive test result for the first offense was vacated, so MLB may not have been able to make their threat of a 100-game suspension stick. Braun seems to have had an excellent chance of getting it cut to 50 games, but 65 was close enough for him to sign the agreement. An interesting thing to ask him or MLB is what happens if he fails another test.
 
 
Per ESPN, the Rodriguez suspension is 100 games for PED use, and 111 games for other stuff. I doubt the MLBPA agrees with MLB putting him immediately at repeat offender status, and we'll see how it feels about the additional 111 games. 
I would think if Braun thought he had a chance to fight it and win again, he would have done that.... They must have info that he knows he cant fight. Same goes for everyone else who was suspended today
 

Sampo Gida

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So to summarize
 
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9540755/mlb-bans-13-including-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees-2014
 

 
 
MLB commissioner Bud Selig said in a statement that Rodriguez's punishment will begin Thursday and cover the rest of the 2013 regular season, the 2013 postseason and the 2014 regular season and was covered under the drug program's protocols and based on Rodriguez's "use and possession of numerous forms of prohibited performance-enhancing substances, including testosterone and human growth hormone, over the course of multiple years.
"
"Rodriguez's discipline under the Basic Agreement is for attempting to cover-up his violations of the program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation," Selig said in the statement.
 
Rodriguez's suspension is the equivalent of 211 regular-season games because he has 72 hours to inform baseball that he will appeal. His lawyer, David Cornwell, said Rodriguez would appeal and he would "pursue all legal remedies available to Alex."
 
Rodriguez will be allowed to play until his appeal is heard. To that end, he was listed on the Yankees lineup for Monday's game as batting cleanup and playing third base.
 
"He's here, he's going to play," Yankees manager Joe Girardi said. "[The appeal] really doesn't change anything for us."
 
It will be Rodriguez's first action of the season due to injuries.
 
"Under the terms of the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program, Rodriguez's suspension will be stayed until the completion of his appeal if Rodriguez files a grievance challenging his discipline," Selig said.
 
The Major League Baseball Players Association is prepared to support Rodriguez in his appeal. 
 
Said MLBPA executive director Michael Weiner: "For the player appealing, Alex Rodriguez, we agree with his decision to fight his suspension. We believe that the Commissioner has not acted appropriately under the Basic Agreement. Mr. Rodriguez knows that the Union, consistent with its history, will defend his rights vigorously."
 
 
Arod gets to play while appeal is being heard, and MLBPA agrees MLB has not acted appropriately under the Basic Agreement.
 
Worst case, Arod gets paid 65% of whats owed him over the rest of the contract, a far cry from lifetime ban, and perhaps more if the arbiter reduces the suspension.
 
How this benefits the Yankees?.  Sure, they get some salary relief for next year, but that's not going to help them sign any long term deals if their goal is to remain under the tax threshold, since come 2015 Arods 28 million is back on the books (despite him only getting 21 million). Their main reason for being under the threshold is the revenue sharing rebates and not resetting the tax to 17%.
 

ForceAtHome

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Sampo Gida said:
So to summarize
 
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9540755/mlb-bans-13-including-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees-2014
 
 
 
Arod gets to play while appeal is being heard, and MLBPA agrees MLB has not acted appropriately under the Basic Agreement.
 
Worst case, Arod gets paid 65% of whats owed him over the rest of the contract, a far cry from lifetime ban, and perhaps more if the arbiter reduces the suspension.
 
How this benefits the Yankees?.  Sure, they get some salary relief for next year, but that's not going to help them sign any long term deals if their goal is to remain under the tax threshold, since come 2015 Arods 28 million is back on the books (despite him only getting 21 million). Their main reason for being under the threshold is the revenue sharing rebates and not resetting the tax to 17%.
 
I don't think the Yankees were ever intending to remain under the luxury tax threshold. Their goal was to get under for one season so as to reset the extent to which they are taxed. Instead of continuing to pay 50% on overages, they would reset to (I believe) 17.5% in the first year going over with it increasing from there.
 

Sampo Gida

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ForceAtHome said:
 
I don't think the Yankees were ever intending to remain under the luxury tax threshold. Their goal was to get under for one season so as to reset the extent to which they are taxed. Instead of continuing to pay 50% on overages, they would reset to (I believe) 17.5% in the first year going over with it increasing from there.
 
So if they are 30 million over that amounts to a saving of less than 10 million, while revenue sharing rebates could be as high as 30 million by 2016.  They have paid as much as 25 million in tax before when revenues were smaller, so not sure why 10 million savings, which is only 5% of payroll would be a big deal.  I can understand the goal of revenue sharing rebates (30 million), 0 tax (15 million) and reduced payroll (30 million) being a goal, as that is a savings of 75 million.  Trick there is to remain competitive to avoid losing revenues more than your savings.
 

morningdew(ey)

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Here is my question.  MLB attempted to get ARod to agree to a suspension for the rest of 2013 and all of 2014.  Behind this was a rumor of a threat for the rest of his life if he refused.  He refused.  So now MLB suspends him for that exact amount.  I assumed the original amount was like a plea bargain, and now he would get a longer penalty.
 
I have read the thread going back several pages, to today's content.  So was there a larger suspension threat previously proposed if ARod did not agree, and why is the penalty not different from the suggested suspension MLB originally offered?  What incentive was there for ARod to agree days ago?
 

walkoffblast

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Anyone else find some irony in that MLB gained much of their case against Arod by essentially intimidating Bosch to do what they want yet the main thing they seem to think they can suspend Arod for is when he allegedly attempted to influence Bosch?
 

Rovin Romine

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morningdew(ey) said:
Here is my question.  MLB attempted to get ARod to agree to a suspension for the rest of 2013 and all of 2014.  Behind this was a rumor of a threat for the rest of his life if he refused.  He refused.  So now MLB suspends him for that exact amount.  I assumed the original amount was like a plea bargain, and now he would get a longer penalty.
 
I have read the thread going back several pages, to today's content.  So was there a larger suspension threat previously proposed if ARod did not agree, and why is the penalty not different from the suggested suspension MLB originally offered?  What incentive was there for ARod to agree days ago?
 
I think the only thing that makes sense is that MLB decided to go for a lower penalty once they knew ARod would be appealing whatever they assessed as a penalty.   It's probably better for MLB to win at arb for a midrange penalty, than have a heavy penalty reduced by an arbitrator. 
 
It'll be interesting to see just what they bring out as a basis for the suspension (no mention in the announcement as to recruiting other players, for example) and also interesting to see what they use as the rationale for the length of the suspension (instead of just picking a number based on roughly how bad something sounds.)
 

Rovin Romine

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walkoffblast said:
Anyone else find some irony in that MLB gained much of their case against Arod by essentially intimidating Bosch to do what they want yet the main thing they seem to think they can suspend Arod for is when he allegedly attempted to influence Bosch?
 
Not really.  Pressuring people to tell the truth is different than pressuring people to lie, or attempting to destroy evidence. 
 

ForceAtHome

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Sampo Gida said:
 
So if they are 30 million over that amounts to a saving of less than 10 million, while revenue sharing rebates could be as high as 30 million by 2016.  They have paid as much as 25 million in tax before when revenues were smaller, so not sure why 10 million savings, which is only 5% of payroll would be a big deal.  I can understand the goal of revenue sharing rebates (30 million), 0 tax (15 million) and reduced payroll (30 million) being a goal, as that is a savings of 75 million.  Trick there is to remain competitive to avoid losing revenues more than your savings.
 

As far as I can tell, here are the current luxury tax rules:
Year 1: 17.5%
Year 2: 30%
Year 3: 40%
Year 4+: 50%
 
So, if the Yankees are $30m over for three years without resetting the tax rate, they will be taxed:
Year 1: $15m (50% of $30m)
Year 2: $15m (50% of $30m)
Year 3: $15m (50% of $30m)
3 year total: $45m
 
If the Yankees are $30m over for three years after resetting the tax rate, they will be taxed:
Year 1: $5.25m (17.5% of $30m)
Year 2: $9m (30% of $30m)
Year 3: $12m (40% of $30m)
3 year total: $26.25m
 
So, if the Yankees plan to be around $30m over the luxury tax, getting under and resetting would save them about $18.75m over three years. Obviously, the more the Yankees spend, the higher their total "savings" would be.
 

mauidano

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Rovin Romine said:
 
Not really.  Pressuring people to tell the truth is different than pressuring people to lie, or attempting to destroy evidence. 
Exactly.
 

walkoffblast

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Do we know specifically what Arod is accused of doing when he hindered the investigation? I thought at one point the story was more along the lines of Bosch essentially was trying to extort the players and Arod took the bait. Would you guys still feel the same way if MLB coerced Bosch to entrap Arod? I still think there is a difference between pressured to tell the truth and cutting sketchy deals where Bosch gets a pass for most of his part in all of this.
 

TomRicardo

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I hope ARod gets a standing ovation next time he is in Fenway.  Seriously what player has more seriously tarnished the Yankees than him.  From the slap to the Roids.
 
CENTAUR HO!
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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jon abbey said:
Has anyone talked about why Braun agreed to 65 games even though getting 50 like everyone else would have meant another $800K or so in his pocket? Is it because of his previous positive that was thrown out?
 
I thought I read somewhere that it was 50 games for the 1st time offense and an extra 15 games because of his conduct following his appeal.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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jon abbey said:
What's the White Sox equivalent of SoSH? I hope there is some serious organized booing tonight, I really want to see him cry on the field or in the dugout.
 
Sons of Terry Forster.
 
morningdew(ey) said:
Here is my question.  MLB attempted to get ARod to agree to a suspension for the rest of 2013 and all of 2014.  Behind this was a rumor of a threat for the rest of his life if he refused.  He refused.  So now MLB suspends him for that exact amount.  I assumed the original amount was like a plea bargain, and now he would get a longer penalty.
 
I have read the thread going back several pages, to today's content.  So was there a larger suspension threat previously proposed if ARod did not agree, and why is the penalty not different from the suggested suspension MLB originally offered?  What incentive was there for ARod to agree days ago?
 
MLB floated a couple of trial balloons up to (and including) a possible lifetime ban.  If I had to guess, they were trying to figure out either (I) whether ARod would fold and/or (ii) whether MLPA wouldn't back ARod.
 
After being stymied in both cases, they imposed the longest suspension they thought they could get away with.  Let's see if they were right.
 
And honestly, even if they get 100 or 150 rather than 211, Bud probably won't care.
 

86spike

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Rovin Romine said:
I think the only thing that makes sense is that MLB decided to go for a lower penalty once they knew ARod would be appealing whatever they assessed as a penalty.   It's probably better for MLB to win at arb for a midrange penalty, than have a heavy penalty reduced by an arbitrator. 
 
It'll be interesting to see just what they bring out as a basis for the suspension (no mention in the announcement as to recruiting other players, for example) and also interesting to see what they use as the rationale for the length of the suspension (instead of just picking a number based on roughly how bad something sounds.)
The appeal isn't going to be public, you know? The oly stuff we'll hear will be leaks.
 

mauidano

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Another HGH user really stealing the show from Alex tonight.  Thanks Andy; prick.
 

glennhoffmania

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ForceAtHome said:
 
I don't think the Yankees were ever intending to remain under the luxury tax threshold. Their goal was to get under for one season so as to reset the extent to which they are taxed. Instead of continuing to pay 50% on overages, they would reset to (I believe) 17.5% in the first year going over with it increasing from there.
Per Cots, NY's 2013 payroll is $228m.  I don't know what the number will be for luxury tax purposes but let's use this for the moment.  ARod's cap hit is $27.5m so they'd be down to $200m.  They have to resign or replace Cano, Granderson, Jeter, Kuroda, Pettitte, Hughes and Youkilis.  They'll save Rivera's salary but the rest of the pen is either a FA or in arb. I can't foresee a scenario where they get under $189m and field even a somewhat competitive team despite possibly saving ARod's cap hit.
 

crystalline

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The Verducci story quoted above is a strong hatchet job. http://m.si.com/3238469/judgment-day-for-a-rod/

It reads like these stories were saved up until this moment where years of clubhouse stories and gossip could be revealed. There's good material there on Jeter and a few blind quotes from Yankees players that hate ARod and want him gone.

Also this surprises me a little coming from Verducci. All his stores that I remember are paeans to the wonderful sport of baseball.
 

ForceAtHome

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glennhoffmania said:
Per Cots, NY's 2013 payroll is $228m.  I don't know what the number will be for luxury tax purposes but let's use this for the moment.  ARod's cap hit is $27.5m so they'd be down to $200m.  They have to resign or replace Cano, Granderson, Jeter, Kuroda, Pettitte, Hughes and Youkilis.  They'll save Rivera's salary but the rest of the pen is either a FA or in arb. I can't foresee a scenario where they get under $189m and field even a somewhat competitive team despite possibly saving ARod's cap hit.
 
Next season the Yankees will no longer be paying $8.5m for Burnett to pitch in Pittsburgh. They'll also get an extra $9.1m from the Angels for Wells. Rivera is obviously retiring ($10m). That's $27.6m in savings there. Subtract A-Rod's $27.5m and that's $55.1m off the books next year.
 
Jeter has a player option for 2014. I have no idea if he's likely to take it or not, but if he does, it's more savings for the Yankees. The option is for $9.5m, a paycut of $7.5m. The subsidized-to-$5m Soriano (along with Gardner, Ichiro, and Wells) may mean that the Yankees let Granderson ($13m) leave. I have no idea what the Yankees ultimately plan to do or how competitive they plan to be, but getting under the threshold is very feasible.
 
Youkilis and Pettitte are each making $12m this season. It's not like either one is particularly cheap. It's not hard to fathom a scenario where they're replaced with equivalent to better production for less money. Cano is sure to get a big raise assuming he re-signs, and Kuroda will be interesting as well. Still, if the Yankees want to reset the luxury tax, they'll have that option.
 

jon abbey

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And they're not going to field a competitive team next year no matter what they do, so they might as well keep trying to get under $189M at this point.
 
What will end up being very amusing for Yankee haters is when A-Rod's 2014 suspension allows them to way overpay Cano, so they're dealing with another massive albatross deal in 3-4 years. 
 

Sampo Gida

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Might be premature to assume the arbitrator upholds 211 games.
 
Also, if anything, the fan expectations might be that with all the money saved on Arods contract they should spend it on the team   I know News Corp will be pushing that to boost the slumping YES ratings and who knows what the Yankees finance department comes in with in terms of projected revenues after this seasons disaster, especially if they miss out on the playoffs.   If the projections are real low the Yankees might calculate that the savings on the tax and revenue sharing rebates are not worth it and will go back to spending to boost revenues
 
Ironically, they have a chance to sign a couple of FA suspended this year. Nelson Cruz and Peralta should be relatively cheap and looking for short term deals to reestablish their value.  Jeter might be better off moving to 3B to make room for Peralta.   Both have had good years and one would presume with the Biogenesis investigation they would have been playing clean this year.
 

kneemoe

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Ironically, they have a chance to sign a couple of FA suspended this year. Nelson Cruz and Peralta should be relatively cheap and looking for short term deals to reestablish their value.  Jeter might be better off moving to 3B to make room for Peralta.   Both have had good years and one would presume with the Biogenesis investigation they would have been playing clean this year.


Why would anyone assume they're clean because of this scandal when no one tested positive for anything? It would make just as much sense to assume anyone using PEDs is on something MLB can't or wont find with current testing.
 

glennhoffmania

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ForceAtHome said:
 
Next season the Yankees will no longer be paying $8.5m for Burnett to pitch in Pittsburgh. They'll also get an extra $9.1m from the Angels for Wells. Rivera is obviously retiring ($10m). That's $27.6m in savings there. Subtract A-Rod's $27.5m and that's $55.1m off the books next year.
 
Jeter has a player option for 2014. I have no idea if he's likely to take it or not, but if he does, it's more savings for the Yankees. The option is for $9.5m, a paycut of $7.5m. The subsidized-to-$5m Soriano (along with Gardner, Ichiro, and Wells) may mean that the Yankees let Granderson ($13m) leave. I have no idea what the Yankees ultimately plan to do or how competitive they plan to be, but getting under the threshold is very feasible.
 
Youkilis and Pettitte are each making $12m this season. It's not like either one is particularly cheap. It's not hard to fathom a scenario where they're replaced with equivalent to better production for less money. Cano is sure to get a big raise assuming he re-signs, and Kuroda will be interesting as well. Still, if the Yankees want to reset the luxury tax, they'll have that option.
I agree they should have the option, but at the expense of being a terrible team for at least another year.
 
And I still think it's nonsense that ARod's salary won't count against the cap.  I know it's been discussed throughout this thread, but the idea that a player who gets caught cheating lets the team off the hook but a player who gets hurt playing clean still counts against the cap is completely nonsensical to me.
 

TomRicardo

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jon abbey said:
According to Cots they're only at $63M right now without A-Rod's number ($89M with). Jeter opting in only adds another $5M, they could keep Kuroda (if he wants to keep playing), overpay Cano and even keep Granderson and still be in pretty good shape. 
 
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html
 
Any time your rotation consists of just CC Sabathia and Ivan Nova, it might be a little pretty premature to say you are in good shape.  They will bring up Pineda and could resign Kuroda and Pettitte for a fairly unremarkable rotation with tons of mileage and very little depth.  Unless you want to count the corpse of Banuelos and Jose Ramirez. 
 
The Yankees will also, 3B, 2B, possibly a SS.  I could see Jeter jacking the Yankees for another couple million and another year or two.
 
Their OF is Gardner, Soriano, Ichiro, and Vernon Wells which would have been awesome 7 years ago.
 
They have an almost barren minor league system with Gary Sanchez being the only minor leaguer performing at the moment.
 
It is probably time for the Yankees to step back.  They won't but they should.
 

jon abbey

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TomRicardo said:
 
Any time your rotation consists of just CC Sabathia and Ivan Nova, it might be a little pretty premature to say you are in good shape.  
 
Actually I started by saying "And they're not going to field a competitive team next year no matter what they do, so they might as well keep trying to get under $189M at this point" in the post right before that.
 

TomRicardo

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Ah, sorry there.
 
I mean we both agree that they shouldn't try next year.  They will and drag the disaster further.
 

terrynever

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If I'm being perfectly honest. I just want him to hit the damn ball and shutup now. If he's going to get suspended either way, it's better that the Yankees get 50 games from him at 38 than at 40 years old. 
 
I won't listen to any Yankee fan who tells me that if it's the bottom of the 9th and he's up, they're rooting for him to strike out.
Don't listen to this but for me, I won't root for the Yankees in any game that A-Rod plays for them. If he's on the bench with an injury, I might watch. But until he is gone from the team roster, I can't enjoy the experience anymore. We knew he was lying in 2009 when he limited his PED use to 3 years with Texas. That was like a little kid fibbing to his parents. But to go back and keep using after telling the world of his slipup, well, that's not the type of person I can root for anymore. It was hard enough rooting for him and Clemens to begin with. Distasteful is a word that comes to mind.
Hey, I'm in the twilight of my baseball fandom career as it is. I'll come back when his contract is gone, or when the Yankees completely apologize for him and Clemens and Giambi.
The only thing that brings me back is a great young player coming out of the farm system and forcing me to watch. Unfortunately, I don't see any of those in the farm system.
 

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ForceAtHome said:
 
Next season the Yankees will no longer be paying $8.5m for Burnett to pitch in Pittsburgh. They'll also get an extra $9.1m from the Angels for Wells. Rivera is obviously retiring ($10m). That's $27.6m in savings there. Subtract A-Rod's $27.5m and that's $55.1m off the books next year.
 
Jeter has a player option for 2014. I have no idea if he's likely to take it or not, but if he does, it's more savings for the Yankees. The option is for $9.5m, a paycut of $7.5m. The subsidized-to-$5m Soriano (along with Gardner, Ichiro, and Wells) may mean that the Yankees let Granderson ($13m) leave. I have no idea what the Yankees ultimately plan to do or how competitive they plan to be, but getting under the threshold is very feasible.
 
Youkilis and Pettitte are each making $12m this season. It's not like either one is particularly cheap. It's not hard to fathom a scenario where they're replaced with equivalent to better production for less money. Cano is sure to get a big raise assuming he re-signs, and Kuroda will be interesting as well. Still, if the Yankees want to reset the luxury tax, they'll have that option.
 If you deduct the money Alex has coming for 2014, he still is owed 64 million for the duration of the contract. Does MLB treat that as 16m AAV  against the cap  next year even though ARod is not playing?
 

cannonball 1729

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ForceAtHome said:
 
As far as I can tell, here are the current luxury tax rules:
Year 1: 17.5%
Year 2: 30%
Year 3: 40%
Year 4+: 50%
 
So, if the Yankees are $30m over for three years without resetting the tax rate, they will be taxed:
Year 1: $15m (50% of $30m)
Year 2: $15m (50% of $30m)
Year 3: $15m (50% of $30m)
3 year total: $45m
 
If the Yankees are $30m over for three years after resetting the tax rate, they will be taxed:
Year 1: $5.25m (17.5% of $30m)
Year 2: $9m (30% of $30m)
Year 3: $12m (40% of $30m)
3 year total: $26.25m
 
So, if the Yankees plan to be around $30m over the luxury tax, getting under and resetting would save them about $18.75m over three years. Obviously, the more the Yankees spend, the higher their total "savings" would be.
 
You're forgetting the revenue sharing rebates, which depend upon whether or not a team is over the luxury tax threshold.  It's been said that the Yankees may stand to gain more from that than they do from the luxury tax rebates.
 

Plympton91

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Doctor G said:
If you deduct the money Alex has coming for 2014, he still is owed 64 million for the duration of the contract. Does MLB treat that as 16m AAV  against the cap  next year even though ARod is not playing?
I think there's some kind of precedent for refiguring the AAV of the entire contract and retroactively adjusting prior yeas payments.
 

86spike

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Plympton91 said:
I think there's some kind of precedent for refiguring the AAV of the entire contract and retroactively adjusting prior yeas payments.
If this is true, then I no longer have a big beef with the luxury tax implications of the suspension.

Just spit-balling, his deal was something like ten years, $275M. Subtracting some $37M from the suspended time still makes it ten years $238M and the AAV only drops by 3.7M.

This is actually a relatively straight forward and sensible way to deal with this. [why does that make me doubt it will turn out to work that way?]
 

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terrynever said:
Don't listen to this but for me, I won't root for the Yankees in any game that A-Rod plays for them. If he's on the bench with an injury, I might watch. But until he is gone from the team roster, I can't enjoy the experience anymore. We knew he was lying in 2009 when he limited his PED use to 3 years with Texas. That was like a little kid fibbing to his parents. But to go back and keep using after telling the world of his slipup, well, that's not the type of person I can root for anymore. It was hard enough rooting for him and Clemens to begin with. Distasteful is a word that comes to mind.
Hey, I'm in the twilight of my baseball fandom career as it is. I'll come back when his contract is gone, or when the Yankees completely apologize for him and Clemens and Giambi.
The only thing that brings me back is a great young player coming out of the farm system and forcing me to watch. Unfortunately, I don't see any of those in the farm system.
 
I find this weird, but to each their own. I mean, every team out there has guys that have used, are using and will use, so I can't be bothered by it. It's just laundry, after all.
 

Sampo Gida

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kneemoe said:
Why would anyone assume they're clean because of this scandal when no one tested positive for anything? It would make just as much sense to assume anyone using PEDs is on something MLB can't or wont find with current testing.
 
Well, for one thing their supplier is shut down and they are under enhanced scrutiny (investigators, testing), and the consequences of testing positive before the penalties are handed down would be dire and result in even more severe penalties, and the main benefit for using steroids is to get that big contract and nothing they do in these few months is going to help them all that much in contract negotiations.  So basically all risk, little benefit.  Yeah, I think my assumption is pretty safe.
 
Also, Braun, Colon and Cabrera were presumably on the same stuff, at least from the same supplier, so its not that they can't get caught.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Nov 16, 2004
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Sampo Gida said:
 main benefit for using steroids is to get that big contract and nothing they do in these few months is going to help them all that much in contract negotiations.  So basically all risk, little benefit.  Yeah, I think my assumption is pretty safe.
 
 
If doing PEDs was only about the contract then they'd all or nearly all stop as soon as they got the big contract. We've seen in a number of cases that's not the case dating back to the original List. With all the stories about A-Rod, I don't assume he thinks like a common person either. 
 
Why'd Lance Armstrong dope for years after getting millions? These guys are the top .01% of everyone. It's a combination of superior skill, more work effort and a lot of the times some mental state where they're driven to be the best past all others. Money isn't the #1 factor for all athletes, much as it isn't for everyone in the normal world either. 
 

Doctor G

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Given the situation ARod is in, I hope they're making him pee in a cup after every other game.
 

wnyghost

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Aug 8, 2010
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I think MLB has royally screwed up with the Arod suspension.  I cannot stand Arod but 200+ games is way over the top in comparison to the other punishments handed out.  There are no positive tests (that we know about) and everyone is treating it like PEDs no longer exist in baseball.  It's a joke.  Somehow Bud Selig has managed to make me feel sorry for Arod. 
 
I think Arod told MLB to suck it.  Try to give me a lifetime ban, Let's see how that goes in court.  Arod playing out the year make MLB look foolish. 
 
Media members, former players and his own union talking shit is a joke.  There are only two players involved that make a boat load of money and have real status - Arod & Braun.  Braun blinked, shit his pants and ran to the hills to hide.  The other players who "accepted" their deals were not in a position to fight like Arod.  The MLBPA was very slow to make critical comments about the suspension and was probably hoping Arod would just accept. 
 
I really hate give Arod any credit (he is someone who used PEDs and is the definition of unlikeable) but he has some balls.  Alone on an island - no friends, only Haters.  The "GAME" is not clean!  Five years ago the media would have fallen all over themselves if Braun had delivered the Longoria message.  What makes anyone think Evan Longoria is clean?  Who cares what McGwire thinks about the current state of the game?  Who know if Jeter is falling apart because he finally stopped using?
 
Just a total joke.  I hope Arod goes on a tear and greatly adds to his HR totals.
 

Sampo Gida

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NortheasternPJ said:
 
If doing PEDs was only about the contract then they'd all or nearly all stop as soon as they got the big contract. We've seen in a number of cases that's not the case dating back to the original List. With all the stories about A-Rod, I don't assume he thinks like a common person either. 
 
Why'd Lance Armstrong dope for years after getting millions? These guys are the top .01% of everyone. It's a combination of superior skill, more work effort and a lot of the times some mental state where they're driven to be the best past all others. Money isn't the #1 factor for all athletes, much as it isn't for everyone in the normal world either. 
 
It may very well be that the reason for so many bad contracts in the testing era is players stop using once they get that big guaranteed contract.  I believe Lance Armstrong compensation was mainly fee based and and the endorsements continued only so long as he won frequently, so he is not a good comparison for players other than those going for the big contract.
 
In some cases, like Arod and Bonds, ego certainly plays a role, and their proximity to individual records.  In others, players may want to justify the contract and continue using, but I think one of the consequences of testing is more players simply stop once they get that big payday
 
In this case with guys like Cruz and Peralta, heck even Arod, they would have to be insane to be using during an active investigation pending a determination of penalties for past use, even if they are confident they can pass testing.  They have to wonder if there calls/texts/email are being monitored and if there are investigators tracking their every move.  Frankly, as the investigative arm of the MLB grows, this may become a bigger threat to players who use than testing.