Report: A-Rod banned through 2014?
- Thread starter mabrowndog
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I don't think we were fools. We just didn't know and I'm not sure we had a lot of reason to know.
However you slice it, A-Rod is an object lesson in the notion that life circumstances are so often not what they appear to be. I remember vividly how devastated I was on Valentines Day, 2004 when I heard on WFAN that the MFYs had traded for A-Rod. Then SIAS issued that hateful press release about the Sox being out flanked and it aptly described how I felt, especially coming in the wake of the Grady Boner Game.
The thought that by as soon as that October, I would be giddy that the Sox didn't get A-Rod, and that by 2013 A-Rod would be a full on albatross and a terrible burden to the Yankees, would not have been imaginable to me at the time.
In my view, the only bad outcome now would be if the MFYs are let off hook on that ridiculous contract. Any other set of facts seems bound to deliver continuing joy for Sox fans. Though I do agree that if A-Rod plays this year for the Yankees -- even for a game or two -- it will be wildly delcious.
However you slice it, A-Rod is an object lesson in the notion that life circumstances are so often not what they appear to be. I remember vividly how devastated I was on Valentines Day, 2004 when I heard on WFAN that the MFYs had traded for A-Rod. Then SIAS issued that hateful press release about the Sox being out flanked and it aptly described how I felt, especially coming in the wake of the Grady Boner Game.
The thought that by as soon as that October, I would be giddy that the Sox didn't get A-Rod, and that by 2013 A-Rod would be a full on albatross and a terrible burden to the Yankees, would not have been imaginable to me at the time.
In my view, the only bad outcome now would be if the MFYs are let off hook on that ridiculous contract. Any other set of facts seems bound to deliver continuing joy for Sox fans. Though I do agree that if A-Rod plays this year for the Yankees -- even for a game or two -- it will be wildly delcious.
Sampo Gida said:
Except he will never be able to make serious money again. Seriously after that 60 million is off the table ARod has almost no ability to make money besides some tell all book in which in order to be successful he would have to tarnish his reputation further.
MLB and the MFYs probably hope that ARod takes the (rumored) '13-'14 suspension, and then after sitting for about 2 years, at 40 he is too out of shape or the hip is shot, and can't make make a comeback in '15. And maybe an insurance policy bails them out of some of the financial obligation for the balance of the contract.
Is a player allowed to play in another league during a suspension? Obvious answer is no but I would wonder if Arod jumps to Japan for a big contract and chance to become a hero.
I imagine the MFY would allow ARod to void his contract to play in Japan.
Quick questions: Didn't Selig suspend ARod 50 games in 2009 when Arod admitted using Peds after the Selena Roberts (?) article came out? And that the suspension was served while Arod was on the DL to start the 2009 season?
Quick questions: Didn't Selig suspend ARod 50 games in 2009 when Arod admitted using Peds after the Selena Roberts (?) article came out? And that the suspension was served while Arod was on the DL to start the 2009 season?
bankshot1 said:
The Selena Roberts article was related to the 2003 tests. A-Rod (who had previously denied PED use in an interview with Katie Couric) eventually admitted that he used during the 2001 - 2003 period in an interview with ESPN.
He was not suspended for a PED violation for this because the testing in question was not for purposes of suspension - it was to determine if enough use would be caught to trigger mandatory testing, and the results were supposed to be anonymous. (Only way the players union would allow testing at the time.)
If suspended, it would be the first time for A-Rod.
Thanks-but was this appealed by the MLBPA, and subsequently rescinded?Average Reds said:
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/04/breaking-selig-issues-a-rod-50-game-suspension-9644/
..
TomRicardo said:
Seriously? boo fucking hoo. including endorsements he's made roughly half a billion dollars. The interest on what he's already earned will in the future provide plenty of income, and is more than what most players will ever make. he's also probably done at least decent on investments. At a certain point, it is not a necessity to keep making serious money. I believe that point is well short of half a billion dollars. If you can make more, great, but he won't be hurting for dough. He's not Jose Canseco
Infield Infidel said:
No one is saying we should feel bad for him, but there's no guarantee that he's been smart with his money. That 60 million could be the difference between living a luxury lifestyle for the rest of his life and having to downgrade significantly, which would be an enormous personal incentive to fight for that money for him. From the ivory tower of SoSH it's easy to look down on him and say "If he blew his money, fuck him." But that doesn't mean he doesn't have a reason to scratch and claw for every penny left on his deal right now. What we think of him is irrelevant.
Don't forget the divorce and child support. Half his net earnings are likely gone already.
Edit: typo
Edit: typo
Snodgrass'Muff said:
I agree, he should absolutely scratch and claw for every penny left on his deal. but if he doesn't get it I don't think he'll have to end his luxury lifestyle.
I can see the A-ROD reality show in the mind of some cable TV producer now.......
Life after baseball.
Life after baseball.
A-Rod is about to become the next Jose Canseco...except that he has more money. He's made more money than his grandkids could spend if they had meth habits. Not really an issue but if it's there why not try and take it. He's going to end up a baseball pariah regardless. He may or may not fight. I guess he probably does because again he is the consummate narcissist. Delusional and egotistical. You know what they say, "Truth is stranger than fiction".
David Lennon @DPLennon31m
A-Rod's lawyer just told ESPN they're prepping for appeal. "My expectation is that we'll be working toward an appeal," David Cornwell said.
David Lennon @DPLennon28m
Cornwell also told ESPN they are not negotiating with MLB on a deal for A-Rod. "We're focused on an appeal," he said.
David Lennon @DPLennon25m
Now Cornwell talking to ESPN about a "disgruntled employee" that "stole" documents, so guess that shows how A-Rod's defense is shaping up.
steven marcus @newsdaymarcus20m
A-Rod's lawyer on ESPNNY: ``We think we have good evidence.'' Expects to fight for ``no discipline.''
A-rod is not smart...
https://twitter.com/DPLennon
A-Rod's lawyer just told ESPN they're prepping for appeal. "My expectation is that we'll be working toward an appeal," David Cornwell said.
David Lennon @DPLennon28m
Cornwell also told ESPN they are not negotiating with MLB on a deal for A-Rod. "We're focused on an appeal," he said.
David Lennon @DPLennon25m
Now Cornwell talking to ESPN about a "disgruntled employee" that "stole" documents, so guess that shows how A-Rod's defense is shaping up.
steven marcus @newsdaymarcus20m
A-Rod's lawyer on ESPNNY: ``We think we have good evidence.'' Expects to fight for ``no discipline.''
A-rod is not smart...
https://twitter.com/DPLennon
Wow. That is going to be an all-time mess. Wonder if A Rods people are telling him MLB doesnt want that kind of situation either and theyre leveraging for a better deal by calling the bluff in the media?
soxhop411 said:
This'll be interesting. I can't help but think it's a mistake. The disgruntled employee/chain of custody avenue is fine, and it's a legitimate issue, but unless we're missing some facts, the person hearing the appeals process is the Commissioner. And the Commissioner obviously feels that there's enough there to suspend A-Rod. There may be some way to appeal this outside the CBA (in the Fed. court system) but I'm not sure what that would be - in fact there may not be one, or it may be limited to looking at the process, not the facts of A-Rod's case itself.
So, if there's little or no chance of A-Rod winning, we're left with two possibilities. One is that A-Rod is irrationally pursuing this, based on his own psyche and/or bad advice from his entourage and attorneys. Two is that MLB backed A-Rod into a corner and their "deal" was essentially no different than a lifetime ban. (If it was factually different, but just unpalatable to A-Rod, we go back to possibility One.)
Or, my analysis is totally wrong and the initial appeal under the CBA will play out in front of a panel of arbitrators or something of the sort.
***
In my perfect world, A-Rod ends up suspended but along the way muddies the waters with allegations that the Yanks had a "pixie dust" policy.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Like Papelbon used to say: "Houses are cheap in Mississippi, man."
Maybe Pap has a Realtor friend who can help A-Rod find an undervalued property.
I'm confused. Isn't that how all of these guys will be suspended since none of them tested positive for anything?
It means that they could force him to serve the suspension effective immediately (even during an appeal) versus him playing while the suspension is appealed.
Interesting. So, what? A punishment not for a positive test, but for obstructing the MLB investgation?
glennhoffmania said:
I'm not 100% but the way I understand it is that a non-positive suspension still falls under the "PED rules." In Arod's case, it seems as if the MLB believes he is in violation of something else. The assumption, based on the news reports, is that it's the interfering with the investigation stuff.
JMDurron said:
I could be completely wrong, but I do not believe that the "best interests of the game" clause is part of the CBA. The power predates the MLBPA and I believe that it is used for all facets of the game outside of the basic agreement. (For example - voiding a trade or imposing discipline on an owner.) So I think EE has it right and they are going to cite him for obstructing the investigation and use that to hand him a significant penalty.
Wish I were more familiar with that part of the CBA, but I guess we'll all learn shortly.
Average Reds said:
It predates current CBA, certainly. However, there's some language in the CBA that applies to ARod's situation. http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf%C2
Well, Maury Brown does not think MLB is going to go much outside the JDA, at least not for the steroid use violations alone.
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5875:voiding-contracts-in-mlb-over-peds-not-happening-anytime-soon-&catid=26:editorials&Itemid=39
They can try and go beyond that for other stuff like lying, and that's part of Brauns penalty, and even further for obstruction of an investigation, but a lifetime suspension seems a bit excessive and I would think would be overturned and minimized by a fair arbitrator or court.
There is another allegation that could be more problematic for Arod if there is credible evidence. That is that he was in fact he was promoting steroids and Biogenesis services to other players. I think MLB has a case for a lifetime suspension if there is credible evidence, but the fact they are willing to deal suggests it may not be that credible.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2013/07/29/rodriguez-might-not-be-able-to-play-during-appeal/
How far MLB pushes this will depend in part on how they perceive the MLBPA willingness to take a stand and if they will go far enough to create problems in the next CBA. Right now the MLBPA is coming off to me as being pretty weak, perhaps due to Weiners illness. That could tempt MLB to overreach.
Some players might be happy to sacrifice Arod without understanding how it could possibly affect them down the line. They should have zero tolerance for anything that jeopardizes the guaranteed contract, and this may be a test case. Allowing MLB to rely on evidence that seems less than credible, based on what we know, to in essence void a contract of 100 million, especially when you already have a significant deal in place that is being bypassed and which clearly defines penalties, is probably not in the players interest to meekly accept it. Yeah, maybe its in the best interests of baseball to protect teams from bad contracts, but its not in the players interests.
And eliminating due process by preventing a player from playing until he gets his day in court (or arbitration) should be equally troubling to the players since that was an important component of the drug agreement.
If the players let this go whats to stop Bud from invoking the same power against players convicted of DUI or spousal abuse, or heck, even being late on their alimony or child support. Heck, I might support that over using the same powers over steroids which at worst only hurt the player and help him hit HR's.
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5875:voiding-contracts-in-mlb-over-peds-not-happening-anytime-soon-&catid=26:editorials&Itemid=39
They can try and go beyond that for other stuff like lying, and that's part of Brauns penalty, and even further for obstruction of an investigation, but a lifetime suspension seems a bit excessive and I would think would be overturned and minimized by a fair arbitrator or court.
There is another allegation that could be more problematic for Arod if there is credible evidence. That is that he was in fact he was promoting steroids and Biogenesis services to other players. I think MLB has a case for a lifetime suspension if there is credible evidence, but the fact they are willing to deal suggests it may not be that credible.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2013/07/29/rodriguez-might-not-be-able-to-play-during-appeal/
How far MLB pushes this will depend in part on how they perceive the MLBPA willingness to take a stand and if they will go far enough to create problems in the next CBA. Right now the MLBPA is coming off to me as being pretty weak, perhaps due to Weiners illness. That could tempt MLB to overreach.
Some players might be happy to sacrifice Arod without understanding how it could possibly affect them down the line. They should have zero tolerance for anything that jeopardizes the guaranteed contract, and this may be a test case. Allowing MLB to rely on evidence that seems less than credible, based on what we know, to in essence void a contract of 100 million, especially when you already have a significant deal in place that is being bypassed and which clearly defines penalties, is probably not in the players interest to meekly accept it. Yeah, maybe its in the best interests of baseball to protect teams from bad contracts, but its not in the players interests.
And eliminating due process by preventing a player from playing until he gets his day in court (or arbitration) should be equally troubling to the players since that was an important component of the drug agreement.
If the players let this go whats to stop Bud from invoking the same power against players convicted of DUI or spousal abuse, or heck, even being late on their alimony or child support. Heck, I might support that over using the same powers over steroids which at worst only hurt the player and help him hit HR's.
MLB seems to be way overstepping their bounds if they try to push through these rumored hijinks. First of all, if Selig bans Rodriguez under Conduct Detrimental to Baseball, the MLBPA will back Rodriguez because of the precedent that they'd be attempting to set. Instead of going along with their collective bargained penalizing system, MLB would've found a loophole that would essentially let them ban any player that tests positive for PEDs. That's not happening.
Secondly, Rodriguez would sue them and he'd win. MLB just set precedent for how they handle cases of this nature - by suspending Ryan Braun for 65 games. How much more detrimental to the game was Rodriguez using Biogenesis than Braun? And which of the two already tested positive? Rodriguez may have bought evidence, but MLB but a great deal more. I just don't see how in court he could lose if it got that far. So Rodriguez would get his salary and damages from MLB, would have to be reinstated, and MLB might lose its antitrust exemption along the way.
I'm sure this is all posturing from both sides, but if MLB pursues this it seems like a losing battle for them.
Secondly, Rodriguez would sue them and he'd win. MLB just set precedent for how they handle cases of this nature - by suspending Ryan Braun for 65 games. How much more detrimental to the game was Rodriguez using Biogenesis than Braun? And which of the two already tested positive? Rodriguez may have bought evidence, but MLB but a great deal more. I just don't see how in court he could lose if it got that far. So Rodriguez would get his salary and damages from MLB, would have to be reinstated, and MLB might lose its antitrust exemption along the way.
I'm sure this is all posturing from both sides, but if MLB pursues this it seems like a losing battle for them.
Somehow I just don't see the MLBPA going to bat for ARod. I understand reasons why they should, but I think Selig is going to make the case that there are circumstances with ARod that make it a special case. Obstruction instead of just plain vanilla cheating helps. I also don't think the MLBPA wants to defend a known cheater of that magnitude and add to the perception that there are many, many more out there. Especially if ARod had a chance to cut a deal, but didn't.
A couple of high profile bans/suspensions make it easier for MLB and the MLBPA to claim the steroid era is over and try to close the book on it with the public. The fact that Braun and ARod are the faces of this right now, and are apparently tremendous dbags with other players, will likely help.
I guess we'll know soon enough.
A couple of high profile bans/suspensions make it easier for MLB and the MLBPA to claim the steroid era is over and try to close the book on it with the public. The fact that Braun and ARod are the faces of this right now, and are apparently tremendous dbags with other players, will likely help.
I guess we'll know soon enough.
EvilEmpire said:
Rodriguez has the extra twist of being forced to admit having used PEDs before (when it was not liable to MLB penalty), doing the whole act of contrition, and then going all out in pursuit of more PEDs rather than scrupulously avoiding them.
I think the real ballgame is the recruitment of other players. That's the story. Usage by a star player is problematic, the obstruction probably got the Commish's office extra rules up, but the recruiting has legs and is an optics nightmare. This element has only been vaguely referenced AFAIK to date and could certainly not be much of anything. But of everything on the table in the universe of possibilities, the only one that really makes stone-cold sense for a lifetime ban is if they have evidence A-Rod played a pivotal role in widespread PED distribution throughout the league. Nothing else seems worth the extra fight.
Or, Bud could be trying to help the Yanks save some cash. Asshole.
Or, Bud could be trying to help the Yanks save some cash. Asshole.
The recruiting thing has the potential to be awesome. Especially if MLB can get players to provide testimony. MLBPA frustration with ARod for not taking a deal would be off the charts if him fighting it leads to even more guys spending time in the spotlight for all this.
They'll wash their hands of him.
They'll wash their hands of him.
SemperFidelisSox said:
Four boxes of evidence were stolen from a car along the way, it's even possible they can link him to that.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2013/baseball/mlb/wires/07/25/2010.ap.bbo.mlb.drug.investigation.fischer.1st.ld.writethru.0557/index.html
Sorry if this has been answered, but have we figured out what the Luxury Tax consequences of salary unpaid due to suspensions are?
I tried to track down what happened to SF when Melky was suspended, but was unable to find that info either.
I tried to track down what happened to SF when Melky was suspended, but was unable to find that info either.
jon abbey said:
I would probably lean toward the group whose offer of 125K was refused and say they found a way around the refusal. What's left out in that article was that only 4 of the 7 boxes was stolen (reported in ESPN's story). Very curious. Maybe both parties wanted the transaction off the record.
Keep in mind, MLB may want the record not to crucify but to protect. Maybe some of those players Arod recruited were young productive players in cost controlled years.
Could be Arod as well, or a random burglary (doubt it, nobody takes 4 boxes of records unless they know whats in it and have a use for it), No way to know.
EvilEmpire said:
Almost as far out as a player with 350 million dollars in earnings risking jail time
Yeah, I don't agree at all. Individual people, even rich ones, do stupid shit all the time. The risk/reward for MLB is nowhere near what it is for ARod.Sampo Gida said:
@pgammo: If A-Rod appeals, Selig prepared to invoke commish power http:Cue the Mozart Requiem. Lacrymosa for ARod. Selig honor,power, glory...