Roger G's Wheel of Justice

[dcmissle]

Wow, Mort is not pulling punches


https://twitter.com/espnnfl/status/509784146374565888

https://twitter.com/espnnfl/status/509784146374565888

link to tweet

They had the muzzle on Mort during the half times of both Monday night games; he has ripped it off. You could tell that Schefter had been "rehabilitated" a la 1984, but Mort had a look in his eye that said, don't put that fucking question to me

 

[Harry Hooper]

That's possible. But I have to imagine the pa lawyers were involved in this suspension, and likely knew all the details. Players don't go through this process alone. Rice is their client. If Rice's defense attorney had the tape, you can bet his pa lawyer also saw it. And the very low suspension benefitted their client. My guess is they try to stay as far in the background as they can during this entire period of public outrage. They are never going to bring this up again.

 
I disagree. Both the pa and the owners will want a less capricious "process" than the one run by one guy. They'll put in something like a 3-person panel to issue disciplinary suspensions.

 

[OCST]

There should be a disciplinary panel reviewing these cases - 1 NFL senior official (not comm'r), one NFLPA guy (not top guy), and a neutral (retired judge or similar) - and an appeal process on top of that.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Robert Kraft looks really bad here.  
 

 
 
"The way he has handled this situation himself, coming out with the mea culpa in his statement a couple weeks ago, or 10 days ago, and setting a very clear policy of how we conduct ourselves in the NFL, I thought was excellent," Kraft said on CBS This Morning. "Anyone who is second guessing that doesn't know him."

 
He left himself no out at all.  He never should have said those things.
 
 
Regarding Goodell, we can talk about executives and secretaries withholding information all we want. To me its pretty simple.  If Goodell had conducted a thorough and proper investigation, he would have reserved judgement until he could see the actual video from inside the elevator.  Its safe to assume they knew there was a camera in the elevator and they should have held off on meting out a punishment until they were able to see the video.  He didn't for whatever reason - either it or its contents never made its way to him or he chose to ignore the content.
 
Furthermore, Goodell chose to (a) levy a relatively light penalty and then (b) revise his policy after the fact and (c) change the penalty when more facts became public.  Even if you can defend this - and I would not want this man fronting an organization in which I am a shareholder - he failed at management 101.  Why not suspend Rice for a sufficiently long time from the start?  Goodell had the ability to reduce the penalty if mitigating circumstances came to light and if they didn't he would be looking completely different right now. 
 
If the league  really did have the second video in April and it never made its way to Goodell, his organization failed him.  If they had it and he saw it...well, I needn't say any more.  This is failure of leadership pure and simple and he has to step down.

 

[dcdrew10]

This is probably been mentioned before (I have no interest in reading every post to see if it has) but to me the great irony of this all is would the NFL and Goodell be in this situation if he wasn't so insistent on being judge jury and executioner? If there was another person or people in charge of some level of the discipline process they might have insisted on the video or ruled differently and we wouldn't be talking about Goodell losing his job. He would at least have a fall guy.

 

[Stitch01]

He left himself an out in his full remarks, but it would come from throwing Goodell wayyy under the bus and calling ROG a liar.

 

[dcmissle]

I'm not convinced that Kraft isn't just naive. Everyone had blind spots. I've seen some very smart, good people get screwed by their most trusted employees or colleagues. If he's lying, then to hell with him, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Goodell, not so much. He's proven himself to be a craven and duplicitous bureaucrat of the highest order.

You don't earn your way to billionaire status without common sense. Common sense is all this took, and if it took more, Kraft has $1000/hr lawyers a phone call away.

I get it that his tv appearance had already been scheduled yesterday. If you don't want to undermine Goodell in any way, just come up with an excuse to cancel it.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Kraft should be OK as long as he avoids a "flyspeck in the ocean" comment.

 

[The Napkin]

   https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/509837562522132480
 
Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton 20m
NJ AG said yesterday that law enforcement turning over the tape would be illegal; now clarifying that it wouldnt be illegal if casino did it

 

[Spelunker]

 
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x7o2ca" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o2ca_twin-peaks-parody-by-saturday-night_fun" target="_blank">Twin Peaks parody by Saturday Night Live (1990)</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Malmignatte" target="_blank">Malmignatte</a></i>
 
Dammit--html is not enabled for this forum?
 
Goodell and the NFL remind me of this SNL video.

That should go in the Media Forum's 'Holy Crap...' thread. Conan!

 

[Harry Hooper]

   https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/509837562522132480
 
Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton 20m
NJ AG said yesterday that law enforcement turning over the tape would be illegal; now clarifying that it wouldnt be illegal if casino did it

 
 
Norah O'Donnell, are you going to step up to the plate?
 
 
Addendum: Based on the next post, I guess not.

 

[The Napkin]

https://twitter.com/NorahODonnell/status/509834551439654912
 
Norah O'Donnell ‏@NorahODonnell 36m
NFL exec says AP report doesn't change what Goodell said but "if there's a delivery sitting under someone's desk there will be consequences"

 

[dcmissle]

  
https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/509837562522132480

https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/509837562522132480

link to tweet
 
Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton [URL="https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/509837562522132480

https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/509837562522132480"]20m

link to tweet[/url]
NJ AG said yesterday that law enforcement turning over the tape would be illegal; now clarifying that it wouldnt be illegal if casino did it

But of course. They know how the wind is blowing

We nailed this point in here yesterday.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I hadn't really focused on it, but Mort's reporting is almost as devastating as the AP report, if not more so.  I didn't realize this, but Mort spoke directly to someone who had seen the video back in May, and (unlike King) Mort reported what was on the tape with enough detail to make clear that his source had in fact seen the tape -- specifically that she hit her head on the railing.
 
There aren't a whole lot of dots here left to connect.  The only question left over from Mort's reporting is whether his source was a league source.  I suppose he might have called the casino or the prosecutor, but that seems unlikely.  If he's willing to go on record to say it was a league source, it seems close to game over.   
 
Here's the deadspin article making the very point from yesterday.  
 
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/85237-roger-gs-wheel-of-justice/page-14#entry5631169

 

[cshea]

The league and Ravens can't even get their cover ups coordinated. Ravens are saying Rice was honest and told them exactly what was shown on the video. Goodell basically re-suspended Rice claiming Rice lied in their interviews. Which one is it, fellas? 

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

https://twitter.com/NorahODonnell/status/509834551439654912
 
Norah O'Donnell ‏@NorahODonnell 36m
NFL exec says AP report doesn't change what Goodell said but "if there's a delivery sitting under someone's desk there will be consequences"

 
They're really going to try to pin this on some poor secretary with a disorganized desk.

 

[OCST]

The league and Ravens can't even get their cover ups coordinated. Ravens are saying Rice was honest and told them exactly what was shown on the video. Goodell basically re-suspended Rice claiming Rice lied in their interviews. Which one is it, fellas? 

 

[dcdrew10]

 
They're really going to try to pin this on some poor secretary with a disorganized desk.

That sounds pretty desperate.

 

[Harry Hooper]

That sounds pretty desperate.

 
 
I hope they'll be decent enough to get her that sponsor's job in a place like Hawaii.

 

[dcmissle]

The league and Ravens can't even get their cover ups coordinated. Ravens are saying Rice was honest and told them exactly what was shown on the video. Goodell basically re-suspended Rice claiming Rice lied in their interviews. Which one is it, fellas? 

Covered upthread beginning last night. Goodell has not taken this position, and obviously cannot now.

NFL better be very careful before trying to pin this on some underling A Congressional Committee is likely to subpoena that individual and put him or her under oath. Inconceivable that this package was not passed up the chain of command to a great extent

 

[Bongorific]

He left himself an out in his full remarks, but it would come from throwing Goodell wayyy under the bus and calling ROG a liar.

Exactly. That's Roger's biggest threat to his job at this point. If enough of the owners want Roger out, it's very easy for Kraft to play the Roger lied to me angle.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Covered upthread beginning last night. Goodell has not taken this position, and obviously cannot now.

 

 
 
I think he did. See USAToday:
 

Asked several times why any of us, including him, should have been surprised by the second video after seeing the first, Goodell said he had been relying on information obtained from a meeting with Rice, his representatives and an attorney from the players union. What he said he was told clearly was not what transpired on the video.
"What they indicated happened was that it was ambiguous and there was another side to it. I don't think there is when I see the video. It was an ambiguous description of what happened in the elevator and I don't think that's ambiguous at all."
...
Goodell said his indefinite suspension of Rice, who also was cut by the Baltimore Ravens on Monday, is consistent with his new domestic violence policy.
"Our policy stands. What we saw was new evidence yesterday that was not consistent with what was described when we met with Ray and his representatives. We felt we needed to take this step. This was an important step to take. We're going to still obviously apply our policy to any future cases that come before me and we will do the things we said in there with respect to improving our policies and education and training and other initiatives that we talked about."
 

 

[Reverend]

Covered upthread beginning last night. Goodell has not taken this position, and obviously cannot now.

NFL better be very careful before trying to pin this on some underling A Congressional Committee is likely to subpoena that individual and put him or her under oath. Inconceivable that this package was not passed up the chain of command to a great extent

 
The overall thrust of this thread has been one step ahead of them at every single point right before stepping in it again and again on angles that have been outlined herein.
 
They would literally be better off reading this thread and letting it inform their decisions that going on the very expensive advice they're getting and using their own judgment. Just think about that for a moment.

 

[snowmanny]

 
They're really going to try to pin this on some poor secretary with a disorganized desk.

 
 
The problem is RG said the NFL tried multiple times to get the tape. So since there was somebody sending them the tape wouldn't they have said "Gee, I already sent it, here's another copy"?  
 
They either saw the tape and are lying or are lying when they said they wanted to see the tape.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
 
The problem is RG said the NFL tried multiple times to get the tape. So since there was somebody sending them the tape wouldn't they have said "Gee, I already sent it, here's another copy"?  
 
They either saw the tape and are lying or are lying when they said they wanted to see the tape.

 
Yes, never asking the casino for a copy means either they already had a copy or they wanted to pretend they couldn't get one or both.

 

[dcmissle]

 
 
I think he did. See USAToday:
 

Yes, but they never had the balls to go 100 proof with this argument. If they had, he'd have been accused in the letter of lying to investigators. And that would have provided a solid foundation for the indefinite suspension. Facts don't support it.

 

[Average Reds]

Been away in meetings for the entire day.  Just popped in here to say that while the timing is a bit faster than I expected, it's been fun to watch this unravel.

 

[veritas]

If this is true why bother saying it? Throwing themselves and the league under the bus here

https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiecsun/status/509814716236324864

 

[Harry Hooper]

Yes, but they never had the balls to go 100 proof with this argument. If they had, he'd have been accused in the letter of lying to investigators. And that would have provided a solid foundation for the indefinite suspension. Facts don't support it.

 
 
OK, I see.

 

[Caspir]

If this is true why bother saying it? Throwing themselves and the league under the bus here

https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiecsun/status/509814716236324864

 
If he was honest with them, then why the sudden change of heart once the video leaked? Everyone knew that video would come out, so if he was honest, and the Ravens accepted that honesty and were willing to move on, why was he cut? Goddell made them. Get this clown out of here. I nominate Tom Werner!

 

[Grunherz54]

They're really going to try to pin this on some poor secretary with a disorganized desk.

 

 

[bankshot1]

 

 

Rose Mary Woods

 

[Couperin47]

 
The overall thrust of this thread has been one step ahead of them at every single point right before stepping in it again and again on angles that have been outlined herein.
 
They would literally be better off reading this thread and letting it inform their decisions that going on the very expensive advice they're getting and using their own judgment. Just think about that for a moment.

 
The level of ineptitude being exhibited so far exceeds anything we've been expecting that it's difficult to believe Goodell is doing more than just the bolded portion ...

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
If he was honest with them, then why the sudden change of heart once the video leaked? Everyone knew that video would come out, so if he was honest, and the Ravens accepted that honesty and were willing to move on, why was he cut?

 
 
So are they all, all honorable men.

 

[amarshal2]

If this is true why bother saying it? Throwing themselves and the league under the bus here

Maybe Ozzie just didn't feel like lying?

It makes them look absolutely terrible but the alternative is that he lies and blames Rice.

I like that it helps sink Goddell. Ozzie might just be thinking, "fuck him, I'm done lying."

 

[Luis Taint]

I can't imagine Goodell hangs on.

 

[dcmissle]

We are now two steps removed from people facing potential criminal jeopardy. If they continue to hard line this, Congress will get involved and out people under oath. Clemens notwithstanding, you don't want to lie under oath.

The smart play now is for Goodell to resign tomorrow from the job that paid him $44 million last year. They might be able to get away with generalities -- a failure under my watch -- without getting into who knew what and when. If they stonewall for even one more day, offering preposterous defense after preposterous defense, Congress will insist on getting into he nitty gritty

Let's see how smart they are. Or aren't.

 

[Harry Hooper]

We are now two steps removed from people facing potential criminal jeopardy. If they continue to hard line this, Congress will get involved and out people under oath. Clemens notwithstanding, you don't want to lie under oath.

The smart play now is for Goodell to resign tomorrow from the job that paid him $44 million last year. They might be able to get away with generalities -- a failure under my watch -- without getting into who knew what and when. If they stonewall for even one more day, offering preposterous defense after preposterous defense, Congress will insist on getting into he nitty gritty

Let's see how smart they are. Or aren't.

 
 
Good advice, but they're arrogant enough to believe they're untouchable.

 

[Couperin47]

We are now two steps removed from people facing potential criminal jeopardy. If they continue to hard line this, Congress will get involved and out people under oath. Clemens notwithstanding, you don't want to lie under oath.

The smart play now is for Goodell to resign tomorrow from the job that paid him $44 million last year. They might be able to get away with generalities -- a failure under my watch -- without getting into who knew what and when. If they stonewall for even one more day, offering preposterous defense after preposterous defense, Congress will insist on getting into he nitty gritty

Let's see how smart they are. Or aren't.

 
We got rather far beyond "that guy will only make the owners dig in further" quickly... then again none of us dreamed they could be this stupid/inept...
 
every time we posit what devious machination they are now plotting, it's turned out they are stumbling along clueless, not checking even the most obvious possibilities ...

 

[Average Reds]

 
If he was honest with them, then why the sudden change of heart once the video leaked? Everyone knew that video would come out, so if he was honest, and the Ravens accepted that honesty and were willing to move on, why was he cut? Goddell made them. Get this clown out of here. I nominate Tom Werner!

 
I have said this a couple of times but it could be in any one of three or four threads, so I'll repeat it here:  I am convinced that the NFL's actions have been driven by an absolute belief that the video would never come out.
 
This seems unbelievably foolish on its face, but it's the only thing that makes sense. 

• NFL sees video in the course of their investigation and realizes how damming it is, but gives Ray Rice a minor suspension because ... well, because they utterly and completely fucked up.
• When they begin to receive heavy criticism, they begin to leak a malicious, fabricated story that pointed to the elevator video as being somehow exculpatory for Rice and suggested that Janay Palmer was the true instigator.  (This is the disgusting, passive-aggressive crap reported by Peter King and Chris Mortensen back in July.)

It's interesting to note that this is the same narrative that Rice's lawyer was pushing back in May when Rice cut his deal.  Rice's lawyer was the one who negotiated his punishment with the NFL.  Not a coincidence.

• When the criticism continues unabated, the NFL issues a tougher policy for domestic violence to try to end the criticism,
• When the video is leaked to TMZ, the NFL acts in a panic and throws Rice, his wife, the reporters they leaked to and anyone who claims they ever saw the video under the bus in a nanosecond.  And Roger Goodell begins a PR offensive designed to push the narrative that he was Sgt Schultz, knowing nothing about anything.

The point is that the NFL did not have a coherent strategy because they are an arrogant, ossified institution that expects to dictate terms to the world and have the world just eat it up.  I mean, we know as a matter of fact that they blatantly lied about the Saints bounty program and fundamentally misrepresented the contents of the evidence in that case because they wanted to reinforce their legal defense in the concussion lawsuits they were dealing with.  Are we really surprised that their first instinct here when faced with the video was to lie?
 
This is an organization in chaos because when they aren't able to dictate terms they are out of their depth.  It's just that simple.

 

[Average Reds]

 
We got rather far beyond "that guy will only make the owners dig in further" quickly... then again none of us dreamed they could be this stupid/inept...
 
every time we posit what devious machination they are now plotting, it's turned out they are stumbling along clueless, not checking even the most obvious possibilities ...

 
Plenty of us have been shouting that they are this stupid/inept/dishonest from the rooftops. 
 
One of the most consistent and steadfast about it has been dcmissle.

 

[Gash Prex]

How can this be criminal? Its a stupid business decision regarding an employee discipline. I think we've taken our holier than though approach a little far. This is not some vast government cover up

 

[dcmissle]

How can this be criminal? Its a stupid business decision regarding an employee discipline. I think we've taken our holier than though approach a little far. This is not some vast government cover up

It become criminal the moment somebody lies under oath. Congress has broad regulatory jurisdiction over the NFL and can easily concoct some justification for investigating this.

 

[Caspir]

 
 
So are they all, all honorable men.

 
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Mr. Kraft says he was ambitious;
And Mr. Kraft is an honorable man.

 

[dirtynine]

 
Good advice, but they're arrogant enough to believe they're untouchable.

 
Les Moonves talking about the NFL to CNBC today:
 
"The NFL is basically invincible." 
 
Moonves was referring to ratings and the general sense that the league is an unstoppable juggernaut, but still - this is the mindset about the modern NFL.  And it probably goes all the way to Goodell.

 

[dcmissle]

 
Les Moonves talking about the NFL to CNBC today:
 
"The NFL is basically invincible." 
 
Moonves was referring to ratings and the general sense that the league is an unstoppable juggernaut, but still - this is the mindset about the modern NFL.  And it probably goes all the way to Goodell.

What the NFL learned this week is that it does not yet have Vladimir Putin's iron grip on the media. They own most of it, but not all of it, and they cannot have people jailed.

There is no doubt in my mind that but for TMZ and AP, this would be buried. But with them taking the lead, the others have no choice but to report on this, albeit reluctantly.

 

[Jnai]

Why would the NFL keep Goodell at this point? Is he so amazingly good at the other parts of his job that he's worth the PR disaster?

 

[Gash Prex]

I know all about lying to Congress but this is not even in that realm - its a stupid PR disaster wrapped up in a terrible act by Rice. The lines here between the judicial system and a private entity disciplining  an employee  are blurred beyond any semblance of reality. I feel like these public floggings are just an easy way out for the public, instead of talking about domestic violence which is a complicated and difficult issue.

 

[Caspir]

 
I have said this a couple of times but it could be in any one of three or four threads, so I'll repeat it here:  I am convinced that the NFL's actions have been driven by an absolute belief that the video would never come out.
 
This seems unbelievably foolish on its face, but it's the only thing that makes sense. 

• NFL sees video in the course of their investigation and realizes how damming it is, but gives Ray Rice a minor suspension because ... well, because they utterly and completely fucked up.
• When they begin to receive heavy criticism, they begin to leak a malicious, fabricated story that pointed to the elevator video as being somehow exculpatory for Rice and suggested that Janay Palmer was the true instigator.  (This is the disgusting, passive-aggressive crap reported by Peter King and Chris Mortensen back in July.)

It's interesting to note that this is the same narrative that Rice's lawyer was pushing back in May when Rice cut his deal.  Rice's lawyer was the one who negotiated his punishment with the NFL.  Not a coincidence.

• When the criticism continues unabated, the NFL issues a tougher policy for domestic violence to try to end the criticism,
• When the video is leaked to TMZ, the NFL acts in a panic and throws Rice, his wife, the reporters they leaked to and anyone who claims they ever saw the video under the bus in a nanosecond.  And Roger Goodell begins a PR offensive designed to push the narrative that he was Sgt Schultz, knowing nothing about anything.

The point is that the NFL did not have a coherent strategy because they are an arrogant, ossified institution that expects to dictate terms to the world and have the world just eat it up.  I mean, we know as a matter of fact that they blatantly lied about the Saints bounty program and fundamentally misrepresented the contents of the evidence in that case because they wanted to reinforce their legal defense in the concussion lawsuits they were dealing with.  Are we really surprised that their first instinct here when faced with the video was to lie?
 
This is an organization in chaos because when they aren't able to dictate terms they are out of their depth.  It's just that simple.

 
This seems like the most straightforward answer, but man, how could an organization worth so much money make that type of miscalculation, then double down on it and dig themselves in deeper? This is like intro to PR stuff we're talking about, and they managed to fuck it up at every turn. To your last paragraph, this is a good point that I hadn't thought of before. The NFL is great at managing the NFL within the parameters set by the NFL. Once you remove them from their sphere of influence/comfort zone, they have no clue how to react. This is simply the latest evidence of that fact. Interesting.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

The owners are going to throw him out soon. Its only a matter of time. The irony is that Ray MacDonald may be playing an uninterrupted string of games well after Goodell is long gone.