Super Bowl LV: Game Thread – Kansas City Chiefs @ Tompa Bay Bucs

bosockboy

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Phelps has a say here.

Ruth is difficult because he hit 714 homers... and also won 94 games with an ERA+ of 122. When guys played matters and all, but that's still kind of insane. It's like if Brady also played cornerback and had 15 INTs or something.

I think Brady is the guy, but Ruth's case is insanely good.
As does Serena Williams. Said in the context of the 4 major team sports.
 

BaseballJones

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Brady's last two Super Bowls.... his defenses faced two of the best offenses in the league (Rams in 2018 were a wagon, and Chiefs in 2020 are obviously awesome) and they held them to 12 points total.

That's pretty amazing.
 

bosockboy

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Hot take incoming; but if the situation with Reid’s son goes badly and the 5 year old girl dies (praying not), I think he steps down and Bienemy takes over.
 

heavyde050

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I thought Kelce was the GOAT TE? can't even pass pro? boo hoo!

sorry, but Gronk >>> Kelce is a nice storyline out of this one.

As far as Reid not adjusting well in-game tonight... you have to wonder how his son's situation played into the final prep this weekend.

what will be forgotten KC should have still scored 2 TDs... one went off of Hill's facemask in the 1st quarter that cost 4 points in a 0-0 game, one went off of Robinson's facemask in the 4th (albeit in almost garbage time). If they get those TDs, it's a closer game and maybe Mahomes has one more amazing drive. Really between getting a ref crew not tolerating their handsy defense, an offsides penalty adding 4 points for the Bucs, this was like a bottom 5% (3%) percentile from such a talented KC team... 9(!) points and losing by 22. And of course it comes in a Super Bowl, because football.

Ultimately I think the Tampa DL mismatch was just that extreme (see AFCCG, 2015) and little else matters.
The Tampa Bay lineman dropped an even easier catch from Brady that led to a 4th down stop and zero points. That was a huge play too, it just ended up not seeming so because KC couldn’t score.
 

Average Reds

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One last thing thing.

I saw the younger man break down tonight, physically. Did Brady miss one snap this year?
I’m as big of a Brady fan as anyone, but this is ridiculous.

Mahomes came into the game with injuries and had a broken down O-line in front of him. He took any number of heavy shots, because, unlike Brady, he felt compelled to try to make plays. (And came up with several that were unbelievable, only to have receivers drop the ball.) And that’s not a criticism of Brady, it’s just a function of Mahomes not having adequate protection and using his mobility.

The implication that this is somehow a reflection of Brady’s superior conditioning or some other intangible attribute is nonsense.
 

rodderick

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I’m as big of a Brady fan as anyone, but this is ridiculous.

Mahomes came into the game with injuries and had a broken down O-line in front of him. He took any number of heavy shots, because, unlike Brady, he felt compelled to try to make plays. (And came up with several that were unbelievable, only to have receivers drop the ball.)

The implication that this is somehow a reflection of Brady’s superior conditioning or some other intangible attribute is nonsense.
This is completely silly. Brady made plays in pretty much every game he was under siege in the playoffs in his career. The implication that he just laid down and took sacks when the rush got to him is crazy. Running around like a chicken with its head cut off before heaving the ball 40 yards downfield isn't the only definition of "playmaking".
 

Average Reds

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Hot take incoming; but if the situation with Reid’s son goes badly and the 5 year old girl dies (praying not), I think he steps down and Bienemy takes over.
I honestly don’t know how Reid was even able to stand out there and coach last night with what is going on in his (and his son’s) life.

That not a judgement. Just the sad reality.
 

BaseballJones

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The Tampa Bay lineman dropped an even easier catch from Brady that led to a 4th down stop and zero points. That was a huge play too, it just ended up not seeming so because KC couldn’t score.
That wasn't a drop. The ball was punched out of his hands.
 

Average Reds

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This is completely silly. Brady made plays in pretty much every game he was under siege in the playoffs in his career. The implication that he just laid down and took sacks when the rush got to him is crazy. Running around like a chicken with its head cut off before heaving the ball 40 yards downfield isn't the only definition of "playmaking".
Perhaps if you read my subsequent edit you will see that I was not criticizing Brady and was, instead, making a point about the specific situation in last night’s game.

I say that because I went back to make the point that my comments had nothing to do with Brady and were related to last nights game.

Also, my post must be understood in the context of the post I was refuting and not as some standalone comment.
 

BaseballJones

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I was wondering what Winfield's taunting of Hill was all about. Figured it was trash talking during the game. Turns out it goes back to their first meeting of the year.

38575
 

richgedman'sghost

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The GOAT discussion will shift to overall sports GOAT. I think it’s safe to say Brady has eclipsed Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, et al....the GOAT of sports.
How about Bill Russell? Does his accomplishments get overlooked or diminished because of the era he played in?
 

rodderick

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The GOAT discussion will shift to overall sports GOAT. I think it’s safe to say Brady has eclipsed Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, et al....the GOAT of sports.
It's still Gretzky in my book. His statistical dominance over his peers is just completely absurd. Brady has an argument because he likely will end his career leading every winning and statistical category in both the regular season and playoffs, by throughout his career there were other HOF QBs who put up similar numbers and performed at his level with some consistency. Gretzky lapped the field.
 

richgedman'sghost

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One last thing thing.

I saw the younger man break down tonight, physically. Did Brady miss one snap this year?
What do you mean by missed snaps? Brady got taken out at halftime of the Lions game. I remember Gabbert threw a touchdown on his first pass against the Lions. If you mean injury then yes Brady did not miss a snap. Gabbert also finished up the Green Bay game too.
 

Caspir

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Also, after watching his fiancé last year when they won, I took a lot of pleasure watching the future Mrs. Mahomes and his mother meltdown on Twitter over the terribly no good unfair treatment Mahomes received by the meanies at ESPN for the crime us using a still from the game where he doesn't look happy. This entire run was perfection. "Brees is better," is something I heard a lot from my Saints loving cousin, even though it isn't a real debate. Watching him rip her soul out was nice. Then came the Rodgers fans to tell us how he is the most complete QB ever and if he had BB yada yada. That went poorly for them. Then he gets Mahomes again, and has people legitimately debating whether Mahomes would catch Brady or not because obviously he's the next greatest thing ever. Just when you think Brady has done everything, he finds a new mountain to climb.
 

pappymojo

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I didn't understand the significance of the taunt during the game last night. This image was from earlier in the season when the two teams met:

38576
 

BaseballJones

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Still should have been a TD.
I thought it was a terrific defensive play by KC. You don't expect your offensive lineman to hold onto the ball when a defender is playing it like that. You hope to get him wide open. He was pretty open, and Brady put it right where it needed to be, and he caught it, but then the defender made a really nice play. Everyone did their job on that play; the defense just made the best play there. I don't think it "should" have been a TD. "Could" have been, for sure. "Should" have been? If that's Gronk, maybe. Not for an O-lineman though.
 

Harry Hooper

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Hilariously... Madden was pretty much dead on, but actually had Mahomes doing better.

View attachment 38568

Things that the Madden sim got right:

1) Bucs d-line would totally harass Mahomes.
2) Hill would barely touch the ball.
3) Brady would have all day to throw.
4) Gronk would catch a lot of passes.
5) Not many passes to Godwin, and Miller would be on the bench.
6) Bucs would get good yardage on the ground.

Things that the Madden sim got wrong:

1) Bucs would try a fake punt (unsuccessful).
2) Chiefs would score a touchdown.
3) Game would have almost no penalties.
and ???
 

SMU_Sox

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Who is saying Brady would have put up more points? It's just that if he had the exact game Mahomes had yesterday nobody would be talking about how amazing he looked throwing incompletions. It wasn't a heroic performance, he got ran. It happens to everybody, let's just call it what it was. The kid battled, but that was a bad game.
You realize I wasn't just responding to you right? I don't think that you do. You asked who is saying Brady would have put up more points and it is the guy one post above yours. Do you have people on block - in particular Erik Hanson's Hook?

I've seen your work on this and other sites, and respect you immensely. But I feel if Brady had KC's o-line tonight, he would have thrown 30 check downs/hot reads and lost by merely a touchdown. We've seen it before. In The Game That Shall Not Be Mentioned. Or the 2015 AFC Championship Brian Stork Head Bob Game. Don't tell me any QB was under more pressure than Brady was in those two. And he kept it close, without the scrambling ability of Mahomes, who got swallowed up tonight.
If you want to say I was being hyperbolic, fine, two people can watch the same game and come away with different takes. I do tend to have a little bit of a flair for the dramatic so if you want to dock me points for that... ok cool, I get it. I can be a little over the top.

Running around like a chicken with its head cut off before heaving the ball 40 yards downfield isn't the only definition of "playmaking".
Now it is my turn to ask you, who is saying that? And... dare I ask... is this a little hyperbolic? I say with no malice and all kidding, this is just sports :)

If I had turned down my antics a bit and instead of saying he was Superman said this would that have been ok? I bolded the part I found particularly inspiring and great post BTW:

Late in the game this definitely reminded me of the 2015 AFC title championship. Brady was unreal in defeat that day, but he had Gronk at the height of his powers (8 catches for 144 yards). Mahomes had no such help. Either his receivers weren't getting open, or the ball was literally bouncing off of their faces. Mahomes made the same bad scrambling decisions that many mobile QBs do (holding the ball and running backwards instead of stepping up into the pocket and getting rid of the ball quickly when edge rushers get pressure), but man, his receivers were useless. Everybody will talk forever about the Bucs' weapons, but the two best receivers on the field play for KC. It may be damning with faint praise, but Mahomes was by far KC's best offensive player today. Kelce's numbers look fine (10 catches for 133 yards) but more than half of that came in the 4th quarter when the game was essentially over. Ditto Hill, who was sitting on 2 catches for 13 yards until the closing seconds of the third quarter.
 
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SMU_Sox

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In general I want to respond to @rodderick question about playmaking though.

There are QBs who can create under pressure like Mahomes, Rodgers, Russ, and... Brady. All of these QBs have little intricacies in how they do it. Mahomes we all know is a scrambler and an elusive son of a gun. Brady, again we all know, creates under pressure by having the best pocket presence and knowledge of where his receivers are in their routes in the game. He is Gretzky in that anticipation and field vision of his guys. Belichick talks about decision making and accuracy as key QB traits he desires and Brady has them in spades. His decision making under pressure is some of the best we have ever seen. That isn't hyperbolic, look how good Brady has been against the blitz. Some of that is baked into NE's offensive scheme. But scheming is one thing and executing a checkdown with an edge defender screaming past your ear or a with a DT in your grill is another.

So while I do think that we should give credit to the super obvious creators under pressure like Mahomes and Steve Young and Elway before him we should also give credit to the guys who can do it in the pocket like Brady. There is more than one way to solve a problem. As long as a QB has an answer and a way to handle when he is under pressure that is good enough for me and whether it be sliding up in the pocket to avoid pressure or rolling out and launching one both to me are playmaking.
 

canderson

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I don't watch the NFL but just read no player from Alabama or Ohio State was on the active roster of either team. Is that true? That's unfathomable, just out of a statistical point of view.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don't watch the NFL but just read no player from Alabama or Ohio State was on the active roster of either team. Is that true? That's unfathomable, just out of a statistical point of view.
Yup. OJ Howard is a Bama guy but was injured. Pretty remarkable.
 

brandonchristensen

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Things that the Madden sim got right:

1) Bucs d-line would totally harass Mahomes.
2) Hill would barely touch the ball.
3) Brady would have all day to throw.
4) Gronk would catch a lot of passes.
5) Not many passes to Godwin, and Miller would be on the bench.
6) Bucs would get good yardage on the ground.

Things that the Madden sim got wrong:

1) Bucs would try a fake punt (unsuccessful).
2) Chiefs would score a touchdown.
3) Game would have almost no penalties.
and ???
It seemed so far fetched.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Not a huge surprise, but I'd imagine that this year's number is inflated over what it would have been because more people stayed home due to COVID (and the snowstorm). Or does Nielsen have a way of compensating for that?
 

Harry Hooper

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Not a huge surprise, but I'd imagine that this year's number is inflated over what it would have been because more people stayed home due to COVID (and the snowstorm). Or does Nielsen have a way of compensating for that?
Given COVID restrictions, you had fewer people clumping into large parties, so more actual households had the game on.
 

heavyde050

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I thought it was a terrific defensive play by KC. You don't expect your offensive lineman to hold onto the ball when a defender is playing it like that. You hope to get him wide open. He was pretty open, and Brady put it right where it needed to be, and he caught it, but then the defender made a really nice play. Everyone did their job on that play; the defense just made the best play there. I don't think it "should" have been a TD. "Could" have been, for sure. "Should" have been? If that's Gronk, maybe. Not for an O-lineman though.
Fair enough.
 

E5 Yaz

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NFLN: Mahomes "ran" (on running plays and scrambles) for 497 yards last night (GPS in his shoulder pads)
 

Cotillion

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This is the graphic that got me. Distance traveled by each QB on each throw out of the shotgun. Guess which one is Mahomes.
View attachment 38581
I am assuing the snap is at the top of the chart. Really needs a scale on it to show some of those 20 yarders he took running back from the snap when he was running for his life sometimes.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Given COVID restrictions, you had fewer people clumping into large parties, so more actual households had the game on.
Right, my stated assumption was that the viewership number was skewed higher because people the lockdown forced people to watch the game alone or in small groups. But I was also wondering whether Nielsen's algorithm for calculating "viewership" somehow took this into account. (If so, it'd suggest my assumption is a wrong one.)

You know, maybe for past SBs, they somehow determined that "One TV equals X viewers", and this year they had to revise it to "One TV equals 0.2X viewers" or whatever.
 

BigSoxFan

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What kind of contract is Devin White getting in a couple years? In his Age 22 season (year #2), he played 15 regular season games and had the following:

140 tackles
9.0 sacks
15 TFL
16 QB hits
1 FF
1 FR

The guy is basically a faster Luke Kuechly with better pass rushing skills. What an amazing player.
 

Kliq

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I don't watch the NFL but just read no player from Alabama or Ohio State was on the active roster of either team. Is that true? That's unfathomable, just out of a statistical point of view.
Yeah it was a big LSU game; 6 guys including Fournette, White, Mathieu, CEH and Darrel Williams.

Mahomes is getting off the hook on Monday from what I've seen/heard/read. I'm not blaming him for the loss, but it wasn't some sort of amazing performance. I get that he bought a lot of time with his legs running away from defenders, but I'm certain that Wilson, Murray, Jackson, Allen, Watson and a few other QBs could also run away from the line of scrimmage and throw incomplete passes as well.