Super Bowl LV: Game Thread – Kansas City Chiefs @ Tompa Bay Bucs

Mooch

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PFF says that was the Chiefs worst offensive line performance at least in the passing game since 2010. As an OL guy and someone who loves offensive line play more than probably any aspect of football I was disheartened by how bad that unit played. Side note: I would have never guessed of all the football aspects that offensive line prospects and play would be my calling.

Hat tip to @Super Nomario when we discussed it yesterday but they went from pre COVID: Fischer - Osemele - Reiter - Dr. Duvernay-Tardif - Schwartz which just FYI is a good OL to Remmers - Allegretti - Reiter - Wisniewski - Wylie.

So backup, backup, center who got benched for poor play in the middle of the year, backup, backup guard playing RT. To be fair Wisniewski was a starter for them last year at LG but he is a year older and a JAG at best. There is a reason PIT cut him and he was available.
I posted about this on Page 1 of this thread, well before the game. This was an obvious problem heading into the Super Bowl, especially against that TB front 7.
 

BaseballJones

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I posted about this on Page 1 of this thread, well before the game. This was an obvious problem heading into the Super Bowl, especially against that TB front 7.
And yet KC didn't adjust their protection hardly at all, even with such an obvious weakness. That's damning on Reid and Bienemy. Just a terrible job by them. We'd be skewering Josh and Bill if that was the Pats.
 

TrotWaddles

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James White. He'd make that offense unstoppable too.
Was talking with my son today about him. They would be fearsome if they got White down there. If Edelman is due $4mill or so, any chance the Pats let him go?

EDIT: Assuming Godwin leaves as a FA. If he stays, no need for another slot.
 
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Super Nomario

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It's funny, they talk about how at the end of the half in both the Packers and the Chiefs game, the opposing O tried to steal another possession at the end of the half ... only for the Bucs to score a TD before the half, improbably. It occurs to me that the same thing happened in the 2018 AFCCG against the Chiefs! Pats had the ball with 3 minutes left and were slow playing it (four runs in a row) ... then the Chiefs called time out to steal another possession, and Brady started throwing, and wound up completing a long TD to Dorsett with less than 30 seconds left.
 

OurF'ingCity

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It's funny, they talk about how at the end of the half in both the Packers and the Chiefs game, the opposing O tried to steal another possession at the end of the half ... only for the Bucs to score a TD before the half, improbably. It occurs to me that the same thing happened in the 2018 AFCCG against the Chiefs! Pats had the ball with 3 minutes left and were slow playing it (four runs in a row) ... then the Chiefs called time out to steal another possession, and Brady started throwing, and wound up completing a long TD to Dorsett with less than 30 seconds left.
Yeah, it's a Brady special. It's insane to me that teams going up against Brady keep trying to do this.
 

tims4wins

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Yeah, it's a Brady special. It's insane to me that teams going up against Brady keep trying to do this.
Ironically, back in 2014, it was an issue and they kept screwing it up. Gave up a late TD to the Packers, to the Ravens in the divisional, to the Colts in the AFCCG, to the Seahawks in the SB, and I think Brady also threw a pick in the end zone in SD at the end of the half. It was a horror show that kept on repeating.
 

SWHB

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In this year's NFC championship, shortly before the long completion Brady also threw one right to a Packers DB who alligator-armed it. Could have been a much different narrative if he had held on...
 

BaseballJones

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The difference between winning and losing at that level often comes down to things like that. It's one reason why winning multiple Super Bowls is REALLY hard.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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With that kinda talk he better have a flesh eating bacteria in there he overcame.
Its just spin. I don't know why Brady doesn't get enough credit for his toughness, but he doesn't. The dude doesn't miss snaps, let alone games. And he's had some pretty crazy injuries in the biggest games of his career. The gash on his throwing hand that should have kept him off the field, the walking boot during...well...during a big game. His shoulder, his knee...people think he just keeps playing, but hes grinded through some shit.
 

brandonchristensen

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How many times has Brady been given a defense for an injury? Remember 2007 and the walking boot? Remember the broken thumb? Win or lose, no one ever came to his defense that he wasn't 100%.

I've heard about Turf Toe more this post season and post SB more than I ever have in my life.
 

rodderick

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How many times has Brady been given a defense for an injury? Remember 2007 and the walking boot? Remember the broken thumb? Win or lose, no one ever came to his defense that he wasn't 100%.

I've heard about Turf Toe more this post season and post SB more than I ever have in my life.
Helps that he doesn't bring it up constantly like Roethlisberger and doesn't make a show of limping around between snaps like Mahomes.
 

brandonchristensen

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Helps that he doesn't bring it up constantly like Roethlisberger and doesn't make a show of limping around between snaps like Mahomes.
True. But still...

I've never heard the media fawn over incompletions more than I did after the SB. If Mahomes threw the 70-yard bomb to Moss that would be the story of the game.
 

rodderick

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True. But still...

I've never heard the media fawn over incompletions more than I did after the SB. If Mahomes threw the 70-yard bomb to Moss that would be the story of the game.
I rewatched the condensed game yesterday and realized that all of those plays came late with the game pretty much over. He was completing 40% of his passes for 100 yards into the 4th quarter. Those passes weren't representative of the entire game and looking at it removed from the moment I thought he played a pretty poor game, didn't do much even when he had time.

I think things spiraled from "give the kid credit for battling even with a shitty OL and his receivers dropping a lot of balls" to "he was incredible and this game further cements his legend" which I find even more baffling after the rewatch.
 

brandonchristensen

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I rewatched the condensed game yesterday and realized that all of those plays came late with the game pretty much over. He was completing 40% of his passes for 100 yards into the 4th quarter. Those passes weren't representative of the entire game and looking at it removed from the moment I thought he played a pretty poor game, didn't do much even when he had time.

I think things spiraled from "give the kid credit for battling even with a shitty OL and his receivers dropping a lot of balls" to "he was incredible and this game further cements his legend" which I find even more baffling after the rewatch.
Yeah it totally reminded me of the Broncos/Seahawks. Get down and just never attempt to get back into it.

The reason Tom is Tom is because when he was out, he wasn't out. Seahawks comeback, Falcons comeback. He was never dead until the game was over.
 

johnmd20

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I rewatched the condensed game yesterday and realized that all of those plays came late with the game pretty much over. He was completing 40% of his passes for 100 yards into the 4th quarter. Those passes weren't representative of the entire game and looking at it removed from the moment I thought he played a pretty poor game, didn't do much even when he had time.

I think things spiraled from "give the kid credit for battling even with a shitty OL and his receivers dropping a lot of balls" to "he was incredible and this game further cements his legend" which I find even more baffling after the rewatch.
His first few passes were legitimate ducks. He wasn't throwing well all game. He was obviously hurt and he does make electric plays, but TB dominated the game. Mahomes did nothing, it was least amount of points his team has scored going all the way back to high school. I do give him a lot of credit battling behind that OL, but all he gets is credit. There were no results.
 

BaseballJones

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It cracks me up reading other fans' commentary on Brady in this past Super Bowl. He wasn't really that good, only threw for 201 yards, blah blah blah.

The guy was 21-29 (72.4%) for 201 yards, 3 td, 0 int, in basically three quarters. There's not a question in anyone's mind that if TB needed Brady to throw in the fourth quarter, he'd have continued to light it up. It wasn't his most statistically impressive game ever, but he was really, really good. Had a 125.8 rating, his best ever in a Super Bowl.
 

rodderick

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It cracks me up reading other fans' commentary on Brady in this past Super Bowl. He wasn't really that good, only threw for 201 yards, blah blah blah.

The guy was 21-29 (72.4%) for 201 yards, 3 td, 0 int, in basically three quarters. There's not a question in anyone's mind that if TB needed Brady to throw in the fourth quarter, he'd have continued to light it up. It wasn't his most statistically impressive game ever, but he was really, really good. Had a 125.8 rating, his best ever in a Super Bowl.
An inch away from hanging 38 on them while throwing the ball 6 times in the final 23 minutes of the game. Penalties helped, but when they scored the TD to make the game 28-9 it was over, the Bucs were very efficient on offense and could've won a shootout.
 

BaseballJones

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Thought I saw a link to the Chiefsplanet gamethread in here somewhere but couldn't find it in 5-6 minutes. Anyway, if you've got absolutely nothing else to do, it's worth quite a few laughs. Actual game posts start where I've linked it. Pregame posts for 66 pages prior.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=336911&page=67
On page 129 there's this gem from a poster named "Superturtle": "**** it. Hit Brady late and dirty. I'm talking torn ACL or brain damage. If this is the way the NFL is going to call it make the penalties worth it."

All class.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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There was a thread on ChiefsPlanet about Tom Brady being a pedophile because he kisses his children on the lips.

The irony of criticizing someone on how they show love to their children was lost on these Tyreke Hill supporters.
 

Al Zarilla

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On page 129 there's this gem from a poster named "Superturtle": "**** it. Hit Brady late and dirty. I'm talking torn ACL or brain damage. If this is the way the NFL is going to call it make the penalties worth it."

All class.
We get used to an intelligent, well moderated board here. Unfortunately, most of the others I've seen are anything but. I just go to them occasionally for the schadenfreude.

Of course, KC fans bitched a ton about the officiating. Watching the game again, the Chiefs looked like they were afraid of the Bucs receivers killing them, Mike Evans in particular. So, they were grabbing and holding more than they needed to and got caught over and over.
 
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Average Reds

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Its just spin. I don't know why Brady doesn't get enough credit for his toughness, but he doesn't. The dude doesn't miss snaps, let alone games. And he's had some pretty crazy injuries in the biggest games of his career. The gash on his throwing hand that should have kept him off the field, the walking boot during...well...during a big game. His shoulder, his knee...people think he just keeps playing, but hes grinded through some shit.
As someone who has watched Brady since he was a backup at Michigan, I understand it.

People judge others based on surface appearances. And they judge Brady harshly for (essentially) the same reasons that he ended up being drafted in the 6th round: he doesn't look like their image of a tough guy. He's not big or super-strong. He's not exceptionally mobile or athletic. And so people think "he's only as good as he is because he gets great protection." (Which is obvious nonsense, but if you don't watch him a lot, it's what people assume.)

There there are the non-football reasons. He has always had something of a "soft" or frivolous persona. He looks like a pretty boy. (He even got shit here when he looked like a boy-band member for a year.) He's very soft-spoken and his public statements seem calculated not to offend. He dated an actress and then married a supermodel. Etc., etc., etc.

Combine all those with the run he had in New England and the rest of the country looks at him the way Red Sox fans look(ed) at Jeter, which is to say that we love(d) to talk about his perceived failings and his image so much that we would often forget that he was a pretty damn good ballplayer. Now put that on steroids in a contact sport and you have Brady.

People don't see the guy who lives a spartan lifestyle, imposes demanding training standards on himself and his teammates, plays through pain and never makes excuses. They see a soft QB who can't throw lasers, doesn't put up gaudy numbers, can't scramble and "make plays out of nothing" and on and on. All he does is win, and it drives people out of their damn minds.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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As someone who has watched Brady since he was a backup at Michigan, I understand it.

People judge others based on surface appearances. And they judge Brady harshly for (essentially) the same reasons that he ended up being drafted in the 6th round: he doesn't look like their image of a tough guy. He's not big or super-strong. He's not exceptionally mobile or athletic. And so people think "he's only as good as he is because he gets great protection." (Which is obvious nonsense, but if you don't watch him a lot, it's what people assume.)
Until recently, who were these big strong QBs?

Brady is 6'4, 225.

Manning 6'5, 230.
Montana 6'2, 205.
Elway 6'3, 215.
Steve Young 6'2, 215.
Marino 6'4, 224.
Aikman 6'4, 220.
 

Average Reds

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Until recently, who were these big strong QBs?

Brady is 6'4, 225.

Manning 6'5, 230.
Montana 6'2, 205.
Elway 6'3, 215.
Steve Young 6'2, 215.
Marino 6'4, 224.
Aikman 6'4, 220.
I'm not entirely certain what you are arguing with.

What I said was about the perception of Brady. And I stand by it. I would also point out that in the portion you quoted, I made reference to the perception of Brady coming out of Michigan. And, at 211 lbs on his 6' 4" frame, he did look skinny.

I'm still not clear what you are driving at, as the entirety of my post was answering why people don't give Brady credit for his toughness.
 

snowmanny

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Bret Favre was the ideal in people’s minds when Brady came in the scene. Brash. Rough looking. Gunslinger. Cocky. Risk-taker.

Brady was the anti-Favre. Thankfully.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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I'm not entirely certain what you are arguing with.

What I said was about the perception of Brady. And I stand by it. I would also point out that in the portion you quoted, I made reference to the perception of Brady coming out of Michigan. And, at 211 lbs on his 6' 4" frame, he did look skinny.

I'm still not clear what you are driving at, as the entirety of my post was answering why people don't give Brady credit for his toughness.
I'm arguing that his physical stature has anything to do with it. I'm totally with your on pretty boy who dates models and movie stars.

But if you Google Elway Stanford, Montana Notre Dame, Manning Tennessee, then these guys are all skinny coming out of college. Brady is no skinnier than his peers. A side note, but one when you type Peyton Manning into Google, one of the first five Auto completes is Forehead.
 

Average Reds

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I'm arguing that his physical stature has anything to do with it. I'm totally with your on pretty boy who dates models and movie stars.

But if you Google Elway Stanford, Montana Notre Dame, Manning Tennessee, then these guys are all skinny coming out of college. Brady is no skinnier than his peers. A side note, but one when you type Peyton Manning into Google, one of the first five Auto completes is Forehead.
I get it. I still stand by what I said, because, for whatever reason, Brady has never been viewed as physically big and strong. Not coming out of college and not as a pro. And it’s a prime example of how people project physical attributes onto others based on their perception rather than reality. (Side note: one of George H. W. Bush’s sons used to joke that he won lots of money betting people whether his father was taller than Reagan, because that just wasn’t how people viewed the two of them.)

I understand why some of the other QBs were perceived differently than Brady, because their style of play was seen as “more athletic.” Manning is still a mystery to me. For some reason, the country has decided that if you have a southern twang and a good ole’ boy attitude you are athletic and tough.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Time to Mo Vaughn

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I get it. I still stand by what I said, because, for whatever reason, Brady has never been viewed as physically big and strong. Not coming out of college and not as a pro. And it’s a prime example of how people project physical attributes onto others based on their perception rather than reality. (Side note: one of George H. W. Bush’s sons used to joke that he won lots of money betting people whether his father was taller than Reagan, because that just wasn’t how people viewed the two of them.)

I understand why some of the other QBs were perceived differently than Brady, because their style of play was seen as “more athletic.” Manning is still a mystery to me. For some reason, the country has decided that if you have a southern twang and a good ole’ boy attitude you are athletic and tough.
Yeah, I mean when you talk about tough QBs coming out of college. Everyone really has this in mind:

 

Al Zarilla

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I'm arguing that his physical stature has anything to do with it. I'm totally with your on pretty boy who dates models and movie stars.

But if you Google Elway Stanford, Montana Notre Dame, Manning Tennessee, then these guys are all skinny coming out of college. Brady is no skinnier than his peers. A side note, but one when you type Peyton Manning into Google, one of the first five Auto completes is Forehead.
I don't know if Elway was skinny coming out of Stanford. Nothing to do with that but there is a cool story about him when he got to Stanford. He was throwing his passes so hard in practice that most of the receivers couldn't hang on to the ball. One of the assistant coaches asked the head coach if they should ask him to throw the ball less hard. He said "no, we'll find guys who can hold onto his throws." Correct answer.
 

johnmd20

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Why is this even being covered? What a non-story. Someone desperate for attention and look at me.
The Post is a mouthpiece of the GOP. It's only grievance and outrage. That is all they have.

They are really reaching for the outrage, here.

Will nobody think of the. . . .trophies?
 

SMU_Sox

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I rewatched the condensed game yesterday and realized that all of those plays came late with the game pretty much over. He was completing 40% of his passes for 100 yards into the 4th quarter. Those passes weren't representative of the entire game and looking at it removed from the moment I thought he played a pretty poor game, didn't do much even when he had time.

I think things spiraled from "give the kid credit for battling even with a shitty OL and his receivers dropping a lot of balls" to "he was incredible and this game further cements his legend" which I find even more baffling after the rewatch.
I rewatched. TB executed such a great plan on defense. With TB getting pressure with 4 and being able to play 2 safeties deep it took away KC's chunk plays. Mahomes would need more time and he didn't get it. That offensive line in review was just putrid. The Chiefs had some success running the ball against the 2-high looks but when they went down by 2-3 scores they couldn't afford to run much so they lost the ability to take what the defense gave them. Once TB had that big lead it was over in effect. They didn't have the personnel to go heavier sets and their max protect wouldn't work against a 2 high safety look because those deeper developing routes are covered. Just Bravo Todd Bowles.

I admit I might have been hyperbolic with my Mahomes is superman. I look at a lot of prospects and tape. I don't always look for results - I am looking for traits. Sometimes I forget to put back on the hat that results matter and this isn't scouting. Apologies if it isn't clear but I do not think that this game further cements his legend or anything like that.
 

rodderick

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I rewatched. TB executed such a great plan on defense. With TB getting pressure with 4 and being able to play 2 safeties deep it took away KC's chunk plays. Mahomes would need more time and he didn't get it. That offensive line in review was just putrid. The Chiefs had some success running the ball against the 2-high looks but when they went down by 2-3 scores they couldn't afford to run much so they lost the ability to take what the defense gave them. Once TB had that big lead it was over in effect. They didn't have the personnel to go heavier sets and their max protect wouldn't work against a 2 high safety look because those deeper developing routes are covered. Just Bravo Todd Bowles.

I admit I might have been hyperbolic with my Mahomes is superman. I look at a lot of prospects and tape. I don't always look for results - I am looking for traits. Sometimes I forget to put back on the hat that results matter and this isn't scouting. Apologies if it isn't clear but I do not think that this game further cements his legend or anything like that.
Oh, I wasn't even referring to your take! Just the general sentiment I've seen on social media.