Super Bowl LV: Game Thread – Kansas City Chiefs @ Tompa Bay Bucs

Harry Hooper

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Yeah it was a big LSU game; 6 guys including Fournette, White, Mathieu, CEH and Darrel Williams.

Mahomes is getting off the hook on Monday from what I've seen/heard/read. I'm not blaming him for the loss, but it wasn't some sort of amazing performance. I get that he bought a lot of time with his legs running away from defenders, but I'm certain that Wilson, Murray, Jackson, Allen, Watson and a few other QBs could also run away from the line of scrimmage and throw incomplete passes as well.
Some QBs step up in the pocket and get the ball out quickly on at least some of the pass plays.
 

Kliq

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Some QBs step up in the pocket and get the ball out quickly on at least some of the pass plays.
I agree, and as I wrote last night, I thought Mahomes got greedy in the second half trying to go for the long bomb that never materialized instead of making quick, easy throws or taking what the defense gave him. In the first half he took advantage of Tampa letting him pick up 8-10 yards with his legs, but he abandoned that in the second half, instead doubling back around the field and trying to uncork some desperation heave. Mahomes had a very physically impressive game, but he also pretty much sucked, and he is getting let off pretty easy, imo.
 

Kliq

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This is functionally the same as Dan Savage’s advice on how to do dirty talk: tell them what you’re going to do to them, do it, tell them what you just did to them
This is also known as the Larry Bird method.

https://basketballforever.com/2019/09/06/ranking-larry-birds-most-savage-trash-talk-moments
Xavier McDaniel’s fiery run-in with Michael Jordan was well documented, but the X-man had a particularly memorable one with Bird too. And it didn’t end well for him. “I’m going to get the ball right here and I am going to shoot it right in your face,” Bird told him. He then received the ball, found the spot he’d pointed out, and hit the shot. “I didn’t mean to leave two seconds on the clock,” Bird told McDaniel on the way back down the floor.
One night in Dallas, Bird told the Mavericks bench exactly how he was going to score on the next play. “So you got that?” Bird said. “I’m gonna stand right here. I’m not going to move. They’ll pass me the ball, and the next sound you hear will be the ball hitting the bottom of the net.” The next time down the floor, Bird was true to his word, and winked at the Dallas bench afterwards for good measure.
 

8slim

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Right, my stated assumption was that the viewership number was skewed higher because people the lockdown forced people to watch the game alone or in small groups. But I was also wondering whether Nielsen's algorithm for calculating "viewership" somehow took this into account. (If so, it'd suggest my assumption is a wrong one.)

You know, maybe for past SBs, they somehow determined that "One TV equals X viewers", and this year they had to revise it to "One TV equals 0.2X viewers" or whatever.
First, Nielsen's methodology measures people viewing, not just TV sets. So they don't need to make the kind of adjustment you mentioned.

Second, Nielsen has long measured 'group viewing' in homes, so they can account historically for in-home Super Bowl parties. Nielsen also now measures "out of home" viewing in bars, etc., but that is much more recent development, and wouldn't be captured in ratings from prior Super Bowls.

So if ratings in the Boston market are higher for last night's game than prior Pats game, the reason is almost certainly because there were many more people watching in their homes than in past years.
 

Lowrielicious

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It's still Gretzky in my book. His statistical dominance over his peers is just completely absurd. Brady has an argument because he likely will end his career leading every winning and statistical category in both the regular season and playoffs, by throughout his career there were other HOF QBs who put up similar numbers and performed at his level with some consistency. Gretzky lapped the field.
Don Bradman (cricket) is up there for lapping the field also.



Imaged linked to statistical article comparing numbers to other big name athletes, although gretzky not included unfortunately.
 

EnochRoot

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I graduated USF in Tampa back in '94, and I became a Bucs fan while at college when they were still in their Bucco-Bruce creamsicle uniforms. And I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.

This is something.

We have threads about our TB allegiance.

But unless Tom plays till 55 and wins another 6 SB in TB he is going into the HoF as a Patriot
Tom Brady is going into the HOF as a Patriot. Before Brady, the Pats had to hoodwink Massachusetts into stadium upgrades by threatening to move the team from Foxboro to freakin Hartford of all places. Before Brady, mostly the townies loved the Pats. Now all of New England loves them.

Sorry for the term, 'townies', btw.

Unbelievable TB only has 2 sacks tonight
I saw a stat where the Bucs created pressure a SB record 29 times last night. Only 2 of those 29 pressures did they send anybody beyond their front four.

Shaq Barrett would be a good call ... or White
I can't complain about Brady winning the MVP, I mean, after I collected my eyes after they rolled out of my skull. This was as dominating of a defensive performance since the 2000 Ravens. The '85 Bears (sorry), etc.

If it were to be one defensive player? Barrett is a good call. White too, but what about David? He owned Kelce all damn game until they went into the prevent for the 4Q, where Kelce padded his stats.

What a stupid penalty on Winfield. Though, as always, fuck Tyreek Hill
There's history here. Hill blew up the Bucs secondary last November. And he'd do these incessant backflips during that career day he had.


all I can say watching Tampa tonight is... how did New Orleans win the division?
A few things come to mind. No pre-season, and they opened vs NO, Sean Payton is a really good HC, and the Bucs lost Vita Vea to a broken foot during the Wk5 game vs the Bears. They didn't get him back until the Packers game in the NFCCG.

I mean, I love me the Bucs' edge rushers. JPP and Barrett are as good as they get. But the edge rush doesn't work as well unless you have guys like Vea and Suh commandeering the interior linemen.



Oh yeah....the Bucs did lose to the Chiefs in Wk 12 (Vea was out), 27-24. After the 1Q, the Chiefs led 17-0. Since that quarter ended, the Bucs have outscored the Chiefs 55-19.

And even more useless: Patrick Mahomes dad is 8 days younger than I am. o_O
 
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mwonow

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It's still Gretzky in my book. His statistical dominance over his peers is just completely absurd. Brady has an argument because he likely will end his career leading every winning and statistical category in both the regular season and playoffs, by throughout his career there were other HOF QBs who put up similar numbers and performed at his level with some consistency. Gretzky lapped the field.
Sorry to add to the sidetrack, but - as amazing as Gretz was, Ruth was as ridiculous. Ruth's career overlapped Frank "Home Run" Baker, who is in the HoF. He led the league in HRs 4 times, with 11, 10, 12 and 9. Ruth led the league in HRs 12 times - once with 11, and then with 29, 54, 59 (those four seasons were consecutive) and then 8 more times with 41-60. And, as was noted up thread, he was also a dominant pitchers...kind of the equivalent of what it would have looked like if Gretz had taken over for Grant Fuhr when the Oilers really needed a playoff shutout.
 

BaseballJones

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Mahomes was running for his life all game for sure. I have been, for pure entertainment purposes, reading chiefs planet and they are saying things like, "If Brady faced that kind of pressure, he'd have been taken to the hospital". It's like...hmmmm....I understand it, but they don't seem to recall the 2015 AFC Championship game (technically played in 2016) between NE and Denver, where Brady got lit up all game long, and, in the most hostile environment, still managed to drive his team for the near-tying score at the very end.

Brady is one tough mother, and it bugs me when people assume/believe otherwise. He's taken some hellacious beatings and gotten up for more.
 

DourDoerr

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Mahomes was running for his life all game for sure. I have been, for pure entertainment purposes, reading chiefs planet and they are saying things like, "If Brady faced that kind of pressure, he'd have been taken to the hospital". It's like...hmmmm....I understand it, but they don't seem to recall the 2015 AFC Championship game (technically played in 2016) between NE and Denver, where Brady got lit up all game long, and, in the most hostile environment, still managed to drive his team for the near-tying score at the very end.

Brady is one tough mother, and it bugs me when people assume/believe otherwise. He's taken some hellacious beatings and gotten up for more.
To this day, that Nate Clements de-cleating in Buffalo was one of the most vicious hits I've ever seen (close 2nd is Matt Ryan against Clemson in 2006) and Brady got right up. The only time Brady didn't get up was when his knee was shredded (F*ck you, Bernard Pollard). It's too bad that some people can't appreciate just how tough he is. Some fans think he's basically a pretty boy soccer flopper out there and, while he has certainly tried to sell calls before, when someone connects...he gets up.
 

Red Leader

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You can see why Brady wanted AB so badly. That route was like a mirror image to the routes run by Edelman and Amendola. Just a couple of violent cuts. It's funny to see the Bucs lineman nervously following Brady as he's about to dig into Mathieu the second time.

And second the notion on White. I love that guy.
The bolded made me chuckle given these comments from the Bucs QB coach. Brown was supposed to run the exact same route as Edelman from SB49 but ran it backwards, and Brady still hit him.

"A.B. on his touchdown catch was supposed to go down and in and then pop back out. He goes out and pops back in,” Christensen said in an interview with former NFL punter Pat McAfee on YouTube and Sirius XM. “I’m kind of going through the headset like ‘did he run the right route? Did he just do opposite of what he was supposed to do and we hit it for a touchdown?’ That was the case.”
 

coremiller

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Mahomes was running for his life all game for sure. I have been, for pure entertainment purposes, reading chiefs planet and they are saying things like, "If Brady faced that kind of pressure, he'd have been taken to the hospital". It's like...hmmmm....I understand it, but they don't seem to recall the 2015 AFC Championship game (technically played in 2016) between NE and Denver, where Brady got lit up all game long, and, in the most hostile environment, still managed to drive his team for the near-tying score at the very end.

Brady is one tough mother, and it bugs me when people assume/believe otherwise. He's taken some hellacious beatings and gotten up for more.
Well, sure, because Denver only scored 20 points in that game, so the Pats were still in a position to tie late. Mahomes had no such opportunity. The fourth quarter might have played out very differently if the score was 20-9 instead of 31-9.
 

Kliq

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The Chiefs defense had a very poor game and are lucky the O-Line/Reid were so poor and are taking most of the heat. KC's defense couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass, committed bonehead penalties and failed to pressure Brady. They were a Top 10 defense this year, but got worked in this game. I think Tampa probably could have scored more points in the second half, but they wisely went conservative and tried to eat some clock by avoiding any downfield throws.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think Tampa probably could have scored more points in the second half, but they wisely went conservative and tried to eat some clock by avoiding any downfield throws.
This didn't get enough credit during and after the game. If they had reverted to the risk it-biscuit philosophy, it might have been much easier for the Chiefs to get a spark going on offense ... though, with the way the TB defense played, perhaps not
 

BaseballJones

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Well, sure, because Denver only scored 20 points in that game, so the Pats were still in a position to tie late. Mahomes had no such opportunity. The fourth quarter might have played out very differently if the score was 20-9 instead of 31-9.
That......wasn't my point.
 

rodderick

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The Chiefs defense had a very poor game and are lucky the O-Line/Reid were so poor and are taking most of the heat. KC's defense couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass, committed bonehead penalties and failed to pressure Brady. They were a Top 10 defense this year, but got worked in this game. I think Tampa probably could have scored more points in the second half, but they wisely went conservative and tried to eat some clock by avoiding any downfield throws.
Brady threw 3 passes in the 4th quarter. I have a feeling if the Bucs needed 40, they could've scored 40.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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You can see why Brady wanted AB so badly. That route was like a mirror image to the routes run by Edelman and Amendola. Just a couple of violent cuts. It's funny to see the Bucs lineman nervously following Brady as he's about to dig into Mathieu the second time.
So here's an interesting story I heard in an interview with the Bucs QB coach on the Pat McAffee show. Apparently AB was supposed to run the Edelman play, but messed up and ran it backwards. Brady saw that he broke out first though, so expected the hard break back in and threw it there. It was only a mirror image because AB messed up, but Brady still hit him for the TD.

Edit: Ah, responded to the post and then saw afterwards that the story was already told. Apologies.
 

Mystic Merlin

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That explanation makes sense, as that is an unusual route to run from that split. It runs the risk of the defender undercutting it if the defender is late getting to the fake flat/out motion.

What is interesting is that Mathieu is playing outside leverage there, so reversing the route concept actually isn’t a bad idea even if unconventional.

EDIT - By the way, why is Mathieu covering Brown in man, anyways? He is definitely not their best man coverage DB. I wonder if KC actually wanted that matchup, or they got messed up in their alignment/subs and couldn’t get out of it because they had no TO.
 

BigSoxFan

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That explanation makes sense, as that is an unusual route to run from that split. It runs the risk of the defender undercutting it if the defender is late getting to the fake flat/out motion.

What is interesting is that Mathieu is playing outside leverage there, so reversing the route concept actually isn’t a bad idea even if unconventional.

EDIT - By the way, why is Mathieu covering Brown in man, anyways? He is definitely not their best man coverage DB. I wonder if KC actually wanted that matchup, or they got messed up in their alignment/subs and couldn’t get out of it because they had no TO.
I'd really like to know what the hell KC was doing there on defense that play. There was 10 seconds remaining, yet, they didn't bring much pressure. Wouldn't you want to force a quick decision knowing that Brady doesn't have much time to operate? Couple other comments:

1. What was #92 doing? He was covering the slot on the right but Fournette slipped out to the left so there was nobody left to guard since I don't think their RT reported as eligible. He ended up guarding nobody. It reminded me of New Orleans' LBs during the Diggs play. Like, what was the point of his assignment given the alignment Tampa used?

2. Despite not blitzing their LBs, both #54 and #52 let Gronk get behind them, a huge no-no in that situation. That easily could have been Gronk TD #3.
 

Kliq

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The Brown/Mathieu play came right after the moment where it looked like Tampa was going to substitute in a different package, and Tom on the field clearly overruled the decision and screamed "No, no, same!" to the sideline. My guess it that Brady saw some disarray on the play and knew he had a sure TD with Brown. Remember, that was right after Mathieu got flagged for DPI and was losing his shit, it is no surprise he made a mental mistake on the following play.
 

Euclis20

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I'd really like to know what the hell KC was doing there on defense that play. There was 10 seconds remaining, yet, they didn't bring much pressure. Wouldn't you want to force a quick decision knowing that Brady doesn't have much time to operate? Couple other comments:

1. What was #92 doing? He was covering the slot on the right but Fournette slipped out to the left so there was nobody left to guard since I don't think their RT reported as eligible. He ended up guarding nobody. It reminded me of New Orleans' LBs during the Diggs play. Like, what was the point of his assignment given the alignment Tampa used?

2. Despite not blitzing their LBs, both #54 and #52 let Gronk get behind them, a huge no-no in that situation. That easily could have been Gronk TD #3.
Hell, 10 seconds remaining and Tampa had 1st and goal on the 1. Literally just tackle all of the receivers right off the snap, take the penalty and give them the ball either at the 1 or at the half yard line with <5 seconds, and make them choose between going for the TD (likely just getting one chance) or kicking the FG. Maybe there's a reason why teams never do this (like the Patriots at the end of the 1st half of the Seattle super bowl), but I never understood why teams don't commit the penalty on purpose to burn a few seconds and force the offense to only get one legit play and have to choose between the FG and going for the TD.
 

BigSoxFan

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Hell, 10 seconds remaining and Tampa had 1st and goal on the 1. Literally just tackle all of the receivers right off the snap, take the penalty and give them the ball either at the 1 or at the half yard line with <5 seconds, and make them choose between going for the TD (likely just getting one chance) or kicking the FG. Maybe there's a reason why teams never do this (like the Patriots at the end of the 1st half of the Seattle super bowl), but I never understood why teams don't commit the penalty on purpose to burn a few seconds and force the offense to only get one legit play and have to choose between the FG and going for the TD.
Good point. I don’t really see a downside to that strategy with 10 seconds left.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Good point. I don’t really see a downside to that strategy with 10 seconds left.
If you do it twice they can assess an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty and restore the elapsed time, but I don’t think anything in the rules would preclude the Chiefs from bear hugging the receivers on a single play.

I think Tampa could still have run another quick pass, especially if Tom turfs the ball quickly, but who knows? Maybe Tom hesitates for a second or two longer and gets sacked (end of half) or throws it away (the clock could be at 4-5 seconds and make it really risky to run another play).
 

BigSoxFan

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If you do it twice they can assess an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty and restore the elapsed time, but I don’t think anything in the rules would preclude the Chiefs from bear hugging the receivers on a single play.

I think Tampa could still have run another quick pass, especially if Tom turfs the ball quickly, but who knows? Maybe Tom hesitates for a second or two longer and gets sacked (end of half) or throws it away (the clock could be at 4-5 seconds and make it really risky to run another play).
Yup they definitely could but at least you get some intel on what they were doing and burn some time. Kind of ironic that the defense that bear hugs receivers on seemingly every play decided to play soft defense at the 1 with 10 seconds left.
 

SMU_Sox

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PFF says that was the Chiefs worst offensive line performance at least in the passing game since 2010. As an OL guy and someone who loves offensive line play more than probably any aspect of football I was disheartened by how bad that unit played. Side note: I would have never guessed of all the football aspects that offensive line prospects and play would be my calling.

Hat tip to @Super Nomario when we discussed it yesterday but they went from pre COVID: Fischer - Osemele - Reiter - Dr. Duvernay-Tardif - Schwartz which just FYI is a good OL to Remmers - Allegretti - Reiter - Wisniewski - Wylie.

So backup, backup, center who got benched for poor play in the middle of the year, backup, backup guard playing RT. To be fair Wisniewski was a starter for them last year at LG but he is a year older and a JAG at best. There is a reason PIT cut him and he was available.

Once the Bucs had the lead and they could pin their ears back and just go after Mahomes it was on. They also had a really good pass rushing strategy that would force Mahomes to scramble to his left but then they would loop a pass rusher over that way to nail him. Bowles really had the defensive game of his life even considering the trash KC had at OL. He exploited that dumpster fire perfectly.
 

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Al Zarilla

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I thought it was a terrific defensive play by KC. You don't expect your offensive lineman to hold onto the ball when a defender is playing it like that. You hope to get him wide open. He was pretty open, and Brady put it right where it needed to be, and he caught it, but then the defender made a really nice play. Everyone did their job on that play; the defense just made the best play there. I don't think it "should" have been a TD. "Could" have been, for sure. "Should" have been? If that's Gronk, maybe. Not for an O-lineman though.
I want to rewatch the game, maybe today, but it seemed like the KC defender got about as much of a whack on the ball to knock it out as Vivian Brady might. Just rewatched it and not what I said. The defender pushed Haeg and slapped the ball out at the same time. Gronk, though, with his refrigerator door sized hands probably holds on.
 

soxhop411

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https://frontofficesports.com/offshore-sportsbook-voids-bets-linked-to-super-bowl-streaker/
The Super Bowl streaker who claims he won $375,000 off a bet may only have come away with 15 minutes of fame and a trespassing charge for his exploits.

Online sportsbook Bovada, where Yuri Andrade said he and his friends placed numerous wagers, tells Front Office Sports that it’s “voiding” all the streaker prop bets that it has “identified had knowledge” Andrade would attempt to run on the field during Super Bowl LV.

Andrade initially said in interviews that he placed $50,000 worth of bets at +750 odds on the prop that there would be a streaker at the Super Bowl, a claim disputed by betting experts because the prop had a $1,000 limit. In a subsequent interview, Andrade said he contacted several friends to bet on his stunt and they combined to win the $375,000.

“Our players have always trusted us to ensure the integrity of all props offered in our sportsbook,” a Bovada spokesman said. “We will continue to make sure that any publicity stunts or ill-intended behavior cannot adversely affect the outcome of a player’s wager.”

Bovada said it is paying out on the prop for those its internal investigation concludes were not linked to knowledge of Andrade’s actions. Those who bet nobody would streak during the game will have their wagers refunded.

Andrade, who streaked in the fourth quarter and was apprehended near one of the end zones at Raymond James Stadium, was charged with trespassing. He was released on a $500 bond.
If you are going to be a dumbass and commit a crime. Don’t be even more of a dumbass and announce to the public that you BET money ON YOURSELF to commit a crime.