It really is. It's like one hundred percent clear to me that for the people who can throw a football well enough to make an NFL training camp the most important factor in success is great (almost instantanous) decision making on where to go with the ball against a given defense-- and that's the hardest thing to evaluate. And Mac freaking Jones is showing signs that he's really really good at it.
+1. It's somewhat of a relief to see him make some of these throws. The deep shot to Harry (where Harry damaged his shoulder) went 45 yards and exactly where it needed to go, so that ticks off a box. It wasn't a frozen rope, but the placement/angle improved the odds of a completion. The great unknown still is how well he'll fare when he's facing windy conditions - particularly some of the icy blasts in December. If he's relying on that amount of loft for distance, then his range will be diminished. Still, the right timing on shorter routes can literally go a long way.
Absolutely, they’ll be completely forthcoming
I think it's an okay NFL arm in that Mac can make all the throws, but he has to be on time. Honestly, thinking about current NFL starters it kind of hit me that even the Ryan Tannehills of the world have strong arms, really can't think of many entrenched QBs that have noticeably weaker arms than Mac, maybe Jimmy, Dalton and Roethlisberger? Bridgewater? Still, it shouldn't be a detriment to the way he plays.
I was under the impression that 199th pick was able to improve arm strength enough to lead teams to one or two superbowls.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaXqHgyBDZ0
I disagree, with one caveat. I think Brady, throughout most of his time here, had an absolute cannon. I think people judging Jones as comparable generally have forgotten how strong Brady's arm was during most of his time here.
In addition to just plain getting bigger and stronger, Brady also kept trying to reach some sort of mechanical perfection to aid in keeping his velocity up. Rodgers is a freak who can throw hard and far and accurate even if his arm is over *here* and his feet are over *there*. While Jones, like anyone, will have to be able to throw at least somewhat on the move, I suspect that most of his throws will benefit from the same type of work on mechanics as an aid to "arm strength."
This is my read on Brady's arm strength. He probably had above-average (but not exceptional) velocity from clean pockets but below-average when he had to throw on the move or couldn't step up.
This is where Mac is right now as well. His arm strength isn't a strength of his, but it's not exactly a weakness either. He can make most if not all the throws he needs to. With mechanical adjustments, he may be able to improve it some but it shouldn't hinder his performance.
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This is, the point, I thinl. I am sure there are great coaches at 'Bama, like there were great coaches at Michigan (we'll ignore the 20+ year gap). But with a year or 3 with pro level coaches- there is no reason to think that an average arm could turn into an above average arm
Yeah and everyone great works with a mechanics coach. Tiger Woods was the best player in the world for years and was maniacally working his swing. Best guy on earth, looking for an edge. If Mac approaches things properly, he can get to average for sure. And that adds to the rest of the package. He already seems to exceed minimum need, so we're really dwelling on nothing. He has enough to get by already.
I’m not sure it matters as much as SimplyEric thinks.
I thought we agreed not to go V&N here.
I know that for pitchers core strength is extremely important because one of the keys in creating velocity is the torque you create by having your legs be facing a different direction than your torso then using your core to snap it back (sorry if that’s terribly worded). Is that different in football?I’m not sure it matters as much as SimplyEric thinks.
One of the odd things I learned about QB arm talent and getting a stronger arm was that a lot of improvement comes from getting more range of motion in the upper body. I remember Waldman talking about how Drew Brees improved his arm strength by working on flexibility. If you are super tight in the upper body it can impact how you throw it which can therefore potentially impact your velocity. For a lot of guys it’s about flexibility and strength there. And then with getting more motion comes perfecting your mechanics. So it’s a wholistic approach and not just adding physical strength. Of course that being said Mac could stand to be in better shape and it seems clear to listening to the good reporters who have ties to the organization that even Mac Jones knew he needed to improve his physical conditioning.
I thought we agreed not to go V&N here.
The core, generally speaking, is the torso. Yknow, as compared to the limbs and extremities…arms and legs and hands, etc. fee free to look it up (and then of course come back with further sarcasm)
I think this is the important point and explains why someone like Brady was able to seem to markedly improve his 'arm' during his time in the NFL.
I'm replying to myself here because I think it's somewhat pertinent to the ongoing discussion, but also has proven (thus far, SUPER early into the process) to be true. I continue to hear naysayers point out that Mac is somehow "maxed out" and I find that to be a hilariously bad take.
Think about, for example, Jared Goff (1st overall!!). IIRC, his pre-snap processing abilities were so bad that McVay wouldn’t let him audible, and even several years into it in the SB matchup with NE he’s still having serious issues handling any kind of pass rush. A preternatural football IQ can carry you a long way. We’ll see how it goes when the games start to count but hard not to be excited with where he is right now.
Some muscles are just show me muscles and aren't very practical when it comes to certain things. "A man of your vanity" "visual cues." It's cosmetic.
My bad. Marciano answered it better than me anyway.
The "high level physical traits=high ceiling" meme has always been a head scratcher when the two best QBs in NFL history are Tom Brady and then,several steps behind him, Peyton Manning.
You misspelled “Montana.”
Let's look at the 3 runaway statistical leaders. Brees was never known due a cannon either, just being extremely accurate.
re-upping this b/c I searched hard for it, and it's hilarrrrrious-er now that Mac looks like he might be a little something.
Bwahahahaha… some fan bases just know how to wallow. That was all of Red Sox and Patriots fans throughout my childhood and young adulthood. Until Jan 2002 really.
At the risk of pushing the dope’s patience too far:
I understand. Toning is about bf%. If you’re looking at abs or forearm definition, it might be a byproduct of their genetics or overall training, but nobody is going to say “if you wanna throw harder, lean out.” Rather, definition will be a byproduct of an appropriate training regimen. But I’ve also read folks like Pavel claim that too low a bf% can be deleterious for athletes, and I imagine there’s a reason why Brady and others never walked around with a 6-pack despite all world diets and training.
I could be wrong, but wasn’t (isn’t?) ‘prime’ Brady visibly more ‘toned’ than back in 2000? Obviously correlation/causation issues, but people here have talked about his throwing strength improving over time, and I think that corresponds with a lot of things: mechanics, experience, and yeah ‘tone’. He looks more fit in the middle of his career.
