The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

riboflav

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I don't have a dog in this fight as I like (not love) both guys for different reasons. I just want to echo those who say they trust BB to make the correct decision. If nothing else, he sees the guys in practice and in the film room. Something we have no access to. As a coach myself of a different sport at a lesser level I cannot stress how valuable this is. One thing I learned in coaching very quickly is that all the critics in the stands are not present at practice, in the locker room, or in the meeting and film rooms. Fans have such little understanding of what's going into these decisions. The Brady takeover in 2001 sort of proves it. BB had a much better sense than anyone here of what Brady was capable of because he was 1. an expert on the subject of football and 2. privy to WAY more information than any of us.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think he gives Zappe the nod primarily because of the mediocrity of Mac's overall body of work in the NFL and, especially, his body of work thus far in 2022. I think we might be significantly over-rating Mac's performance and abilities.
Well, after 2.5 games, it's a good thing no one's overrating Zappe's performance and abilities.

This isn't either / or, it's both. And, as others have said, it's good to have options.
 

riboflav

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ponch73

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The link isn't coming up for me. Would you mind quoting from it or summarizing it?
Offensive coaching changes and Mac's injury have heightened tensions between the parties over the past couple of months. Mac has been second guessing some of the decisions such as having Patricia and Judge lead the offense, changing the offense, etc. Mac has been improvising on the field and taking downfield shots that have led to turnovers. Patriots are using Zappe's success to send Mac a message to fully buy in to the system.
 

riboflav

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Offensive coaching changes and Mac's injury have heightened tensions between the parties over the past couple of months. Mac has been second guessing some of the decisions such as having Patricia and Judge lead the offense, changing the offense, etc. Mac has been improvising on the field and taking downfield shots that have led to turnovers. Patriots are using Zappe's success to send Mac a message to fully buy in to the system.
Ok. Thank you. I googled it and read some of Breer's quotes on NBCSports. I don't trust Breer at all but as you pointed out we now have three media members saying similar things. If this is close to the truth we may have our answer on who will be QB1 going forward.
 

ponch73

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Ok. Thank you. I googled it and read some of Breer's quotes on NBCSports. I don't trust Breer at all but as you pointed out we now have three media members saying similar things. If this is close to the truth we may have our answer on who will be QB1 going forward.
Local media members -- Phil Perry, Greg Bedard, Patriots.com -- all fully expect Mac to be QB1 going forward. Perry, who I suspect has pretty good access, thinks Mac will start against the Bears and believes Mac was close to being physically ready against the Browns. Oh well, so much for my prediction.

https://sports.yahoo.com/patriots-report-card-bailey-zappe-023000337.html
 

SMU_Sox

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I think not giving Mac the job back when he’s healthy devalues everything he showed last year at the expense of a couple bad games to start this year. I also think Zappe has shown enough that if a couple bad games turns into a bad season, there’s probably an open competition next camp, because we are talking about deciding on Mac’s 5th year option by the end of next season, so if he’s not the guy, you want to make sure you have the guy in-house already or are ready to draft him.

Look, I like Zappe’s poise and pocket presence. Kid stands in there. Arm is better than I expected but still not great. Decision-making has been good. This is great to see. It’s what you want out of picks. They should push the guys on your roster. If Mac doesn’t respond to the push, then you’ve got something to think about. For now, it’s just good depth.
Completely agree with you.

Overall my issue with this discussion here and elsewhere is we’ve had 3 games of Mac and 3 games of Zappe. There are a lot of factors that make Mac look better and make Zappe look worse as well as the opposite. It’s too small a sample size.
Stylistically the Mac offense was more of a vertical passing offense. Mac was asked to do a lot more. The problem was the turnover worthy plays. Turnover worthy plays can be volatile and somewhat random.

This pocket presence commentary bothers me. Bailey did not have good pocket presence against GB. You can excuse that as him coming in off the bench, fine whatever, but PFF charts what % of pressure is at least partially on the QB. Mac Jones is tied for the lead with NO pressures on him this year. Bailey Zappe is tied for 2nd worst with 43% not counting this most recent game. Mac has also scrambled and created this year. Mac's mobility, I thought, was one of the positives we took out of the first 3 games.
 

SMU_Sox

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Mac's rate of 5.1% turnover worthy plays this year would have tied him for worst in the league last year with Jimmy G. Completely unacceptable. Mac also was operating in a new style of offense. It's possible Mac will improve on the turnovers while continuing to have success driving the ball. It's also possible he won't. We need more time to figure out how they will project going forward and unfortunately sitting around and waiting for guys to come back and for time to move forward sucks.
 

Van Everyman

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I think one thing that is giving some pause is that the offense the last few weeks has not only looked better than this year with Mac – it’s also looked better than last year. That’s not to say Zappe is the better QB – SSS and all, as well as bad defenses.

But what we’ve seen the last few weeks is more or less what we’d hoped to see from Mac running the show this year: fewer of last year’s dinks and dunks but also not being careless with the throws downfield. The whole thing looks more balanced, and the ball is being spread around more, including to the TEs who have been largely MIA this season.

My sense is that it is probably partly Zappe being a fast learner and partly the whole offense—Patricia included—being more comfortable 6 games in. And yeah, the other teams having terrible defenses. Which is gonna continue the next few weeks with all the terrible teams during this stretch (by November 20 people may well be penciling Zappe in for the HOF.after games against the Bears, Jets and Colts).
 

SMU_Sox

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I think the offense has looked better against the Browns and the Lions but they only put up 17 points against the Packers. The Browns and the Lions are bottom 3 defenses by DVOA. The offense has clearly had a better 2 game stretch and Zappe is a part of that but the big picture and what is projectable going forward to me is still unclear. The Lions were down 3-5 DBs. The Browns OTOH gambled on blitzes and heavy boxes and the Patriots not only saw it coming but had an amazing gameplan for it. A lot of good results, yes. Zappe also played well minus some inaccurate stretches. Is Zappe and this kind of offense able to go toe-to-toe with the Bills or Chiefs? Will they still be effective against better defenses? No one knows. Teams also don't know how to gameplan specifically against Zappe and the different passing concepts. For example today I saw a slant flat combo that Zappe hit. I don't think I saw that all year with Mac.

The only thing I know for certain is Hoyer's services are no longer needed.
 

SMU_Sox

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Another thing to point out is the Patriots receivers are winning against man at a much better clip than last year. Parker, Meyers, Agholor (I know, I know), Thornton of late are all winning. They run man beating concepts like the rest of the league does but they are seperating and winning more consistently than last year. Just another factor that makes it harder to compare the years.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This pocket presence commentary bothers me. Bailey did not have good pocket presence against GB. You can excuse that as him coming in off the bench, fine whatever, but PFF charts what % of pressure is at least partially on the QB. Mac Jones is tied for the lead with NO pressures on him this year. Bailey Zappe is tied for 2nd worst with 43% not counting this most recent game. Mac has also scrambled and created this year. Mac's mobility, I thought, was one of the positives we took out of the first 3 games.
If you don't mind sharing from a high level, how does this stat measure how a qb contributes to a pressure? Time? Pocket movement?
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Completely agree with you.

Overall my issue with this discussion here and elsewhere is we’ve had 3 games of Mac and 3 games of Zappe. There are a lot of factors that make Mac look better and make Zappe look worse as well as the opposite. It’s too small a sample size.
Stylistically the Mac offense was more of a vertical passing offense. Mac was asked to do a lot more. The problem was the turnover worthy plays. Turnover worthy plays can be volatile and somewhat random.

This pocket presence commentary bothers me. Bailey did not have good pocket presence against GB. You can excuse that as him coming in off the bench, fine whatever, but PFF charts what % of pressure is at least partially on the QB. Mac Jones is tied for the lead with NO pressures on him this year. Bailey Zappe is tied for 2nd worst with 43% not counting this most recent game. Mac has also scrambled and created this year. Mac's mobility, I thought, was one of the positives we took out of the first 3 games.
Does that stat mean much though? 43% of what sample size through 7 quarters? Wasn't he barely pressured at all last week?

It's totally an eye test thing, but the pocket presence commentary seems pretty universal, and was pretty loud on Twitter and in the game thread yesterday. He might not see the field as well as Mac does, but he certainly seems more decisive out there.
 

scottyno

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I don’t get this talk about Zappe being asked to do less. Our two highest point totals are the last two weeks with Zappe. If Mac could put up 29+ points with any playbook, why wouldn’t they have empowered him to do so?
Mac wasn't facing 2 of the worst defenses in the league who were more banged up than usual. The lions when healthy are the worst in the league and they were basically running out practice squad guys at corner.

The offense scored 22 against the lions, the lowest point total the lions had given up all year. The 38 today included 2 4th quarter touchdown "drives" that totaled 27 yards and a 3rd that was 40 yards.
 
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sal16cal

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I am sorry but who the hell is Mac Jones? In YEAR 2 bitch about the coordinators. Can anyone imagine Brady circa 2004 doing this? I don't care if they get a guy off the street.
 

sal16cal

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Local media members -- Phil Perry, Greg Bedard, Patriots.com -- all fully expect Mac to be QB1 going forward. Perry, who I suspect has pretty good access, thinks Mac will start against the Bears and believes Mac was close to being physically ready against the Browns. Oh well, so much for my prediction.

https://sports.yahoo.com/patriots-report-card-bailey-zappe-023000337.html
Ya, I don't understand the line of thought that he doesn't play. He practiced Friday he was a questionable game-time decision. He's going to practice this week. If he DIDNT play i would seriously be worried about his decision not to have surgery.
 

NDame616

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Ya, I don't understand the line of thought that he doesn't play. He practiced Friday he was a questionable game-time decision. He's going to practice this week. If he DIDNT play i would seriously be worried about his decision not to have surgery.
Why? Surgery was supposed to get him back in 3 or 4 weeks. If he's back in about 4 weeks, not getting surgery was the right call.

As soon as it was determined that the injury would keep him about about a month, surgery was 100% off the table. Surgery was an option when we all thought this was an 8-10 week injury
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think not giving Mac the job back when he’s healthy devalues everything he showed last year at the expense of a couple bad games to start this year. I also think Zappe has shown enough that if a couple bad games turns into a bad season, there’s probably an open competition next camp, because we are talking about deciding on Mac’s 5th year option by the end of next season, so if he’s not the guy, you want to make sure you have the guy in-house already or are ready to draft him.

Look, I like Zappe’s poise and pocket presence. Kid stands in there. Arm is better than I expected but still not great. Decision-making has been good. This is great to see. It’s what you want out of picks. They should push the guys on your roster. If Mac doesn’t respond to the push, then you’ve got something to think about. For now, it’s just good depth.
This seems exactly right to me. The only thing I would add is that Zappe is playing well enough now that there is no need to rush Mac back, health-wise.
I don’t get this talk about Zappe being asked to do less. Our two highest point totals are the last two weeks with Zappe. If Mac could put up 29+ points with any playbook, why wouldn’t they have empowered him to do so?
Against Green Bay, they kept things extremely conservative and arguably denied themselves a chance to win.

Against Detroit, Zappe only attempted 21 passes while the Pats ran the ball 35 times. They scored a defensive TD and failed to move the ball every time they entered the red zone.

Until the second half of yesterday's game, Zappe had had no red zone success.
I think one thing that is giving some pause is that the offense the last few weeks has not only looked better than this year with Mac – it’s also looked better than last year. That’s not to say Zappe is the better QB – SSS and all, as well as bad defenses.
Bad defenses, simplified game plans, and the whole team having more experience in the new offense will do that will do that.
I am sorry but who the hell is Mac Jones? In YEAR 2 bitch about the coordinators. Can anyone imagine Brady circa 2004 doing this? I don't care if they get a guy off the street.
I think this would be fair if Mac was talking about this in public or if his people are leaking it. If it is just a fact that some good reporting has uncovered, I think it is just one of those things that happens. People disagree about stuff. No one would like, after a good first year, to see the offense and the OC changed this way.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Ok. Thank you. I googled it and read some of Breer's quotes on NBCSports. I don't trust Breer at all but as you pointed out we now have three media members saying similar things. If this is close to the truth we may have our answer on who will be QB1 going forward.
Not sure it says anything about who QB1 will be, but it may dispel some of the narrative around Mac’s play in the first 3 games and “being asked to do too much.” Other than the media’s and folk’s expectations about Mac, what proof was there that in 2022 Mac was actually being asked to take so many chances, versus making these decisions on his own. Commentary from Breer, Simmons, and Lombardi indicate that some (most?) of those decisions were Mac’s, and if Mac just ran the Zappe offense (essentially make better decisions and safer throws) then the team would be better off. Only the coaches know the extent of the issue, if any.
 

rodderick

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I think the offense has looked better against the Browns and the Lions but they only put up 17 points against the Packers. The Browns and the Lions are bottom 3 defenses by DVOA. The offense has clearly had a better 2 game stretch and Zappe is a part of that but the big picture and what is projectable going forward to me is still unclear. The Lions were down 3-5 DBs. The Browns OTOH gambled on blitzes and heavy boxes and the Patriots not only saw it coming but had an amazing gameplan for it. A lot of good results, yes. Zappe also played well minus some inaccurate stretches. Is Zappe and this kind of offense able to go toe-to-toe with the Bills or Chiefs? Will they still be effective against better defenses? No one knows. Teams also don't know how to gameplan specifically against Zappe and the different passing concepts. For example today I saw a slant flat combo that Zappe hit. I don't think I saw that all year with Mac.

The only thing I know for certain is Hoyer's services are no longer needed.
Those are the same kind of circumstances that led to Mac looking great from Week 7 to Week 12 last year (undermanned opponents, terrible defenses), though. Since Week 13 of last year and including playoffs he's thrown 10 TDs, 12 INTs and has a passer rating in the mid 70s. That's a pretty significant stretch of below par play, in my opinion. If they want to plug Mac back in, I'm 100% fine with that decision, but it better come with some strings attached. People were already treating him as a player as entrenched as the Justin Herbert's of the world, and it should be pretty clear now that's not the reality of the situation.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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Other than the media’s and folk’s expectations about Mac, what proof was there that in 2022 Mac was actually being asked to take so many chances, versus making these decisions on his own. Commentary from Breer, Simmons, and Lombardi indicate that some (most?) of those decisions were Mac’s, and if Mac just ran the Zappe offense (essentially make better decisions and safer throws) then the team would be better off. Only the coaches know the extent of the issue, if any.
I think this misunderstands or conflates a few distinct issues.

I can't speak for others, but when I say "Zappe is being asked to do less than Mac" I am talking pretty specifically about playcalling and game plan. First of all they are running the ball more, even when the running game is ineffective (see for example the Green Bay game), than they did under Mac. In both of Zappe's starts, settling for FGs has been a core part of their red zone strategy - the red zone playcalling with Zappe has been exceptionally conservative even though it largely hasn't worked. The 3rd and 10 draw that Stevenson scored on is an example of not asking Zappe to do too much - the prime goal there was to not risk the chance at a FG.

Another part of it - not all passing plays are the same in terms of what the QB is being "asked" to do. They differ in how many receivers are out in the pattern, what the progressions are supposed to be, what the QB needs to read, is there play action, etc. Some plays such as screens or designed throws into the flat don't ask the QB to read the defense and choose among several guys out in the pattern. I think some of the "more" they were asking of Mac was in the types of reads and pass plays called - and he struggled with a lot of that.

I very much doubt, though, that the Pats were asking Mac to, within a given play, try to force the ball in to the riskiest option. I think they did want him throwing downfield more but not trying to become a modern day Daryle Lamonica. The Parker INT where Mac just threw it up for grabs after Parker signaled that he didn't know the play call is 100% on Mac, and not something he was "asked to do."
 

Bowhemian

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Having said that - he has GOTTA stop sticking his arms out straight to pretend to hand the ball off to a ghost.
Why? The intent is to show the defense the ball, which can create an iota of hesitation, which helps.

Ever seen that QB over in Green Bay hand the ball off? He does the exact same thing.

Having said that, it drives me nuts. I can't rationalize it other than it looks stupid to me.
 

NickEsasky

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With the risk of being accused of Felgering and Mazzing up the board, here's another data point about Mac and the coaching staff not being on the same page ... we've now heard this from Mike Florio, Bill Simmons and Albert Breer.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2022/10/16/mac-jones-relationship-with-patriots-albert-breer/
It seems rather convenient that the exact same drum the media has been beating since June is the problem Mac has with the team. Maybe it's accurate, but it certainly fits a narrative.
 

rodderick

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It seems rather convenient that the exact same drum the media has been beating since June is the problem Mac has with the team. Maybe it's accurate, but it certainly fits a narrative.
What I love about this is that this supposed rift has been talked about nonstop by the Felger and Mazzes of the world as a way to shit on the coaching staff by using Mac as the sympathetic figure ("how can they not make it work for our guy??") and now they'll probably reuse the same narrative but flip it around to make Mac's personality being at fault for his lack of production and a possible reason as to why the coaching staff may go with Zappe. It's a win-win.
 

Jimbodandy

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THis just isn't true. The play-calling was different, but the line was not any different, it was consistently grading out very well, Mac made it look much worse than it was.
There are some playcalling questions, but mostly... Mac didn't play well. Now also... he played much better defenses, the Lions and Browns are both bad defenses, arguably very bad which give Zappe more easy looks, partly because of how bad the coverage is, but also because they have to sell out to defend the run because they are bad run Ds as well meaning less exotic looks, more man, etc.
If Zappe is responsible for guys being wide open now, I hope that Bill gives him the job forever. That's what I'm seeing--guys being open. If I incorrectly attributed the cause, my bad.
 

ManicCompression

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The Browns and the Lions are bottom 3 defenses by DVOA.
This is the thing that stands out to me. I love that Zappe is keeping the ship afloat, but we couldn't have asked for better schedule luck when it comes to the defenses our backup QB has to face.

Also, let's see how Zappe responds once the league starts to figure out his tendencies. We've seen this a lot in the NFL where a QB comes out of nowhere to have a few good games (Gardner Minshew, Baker Mayfield, etc) but they aren't able to sustain for whatever reason. It's a little unfair to compare Zappe's two games in optimal conditions versus a season plus of Mac, who's faced harder defenses that have gameplanned specifically for him.

It's a great story, but in the end I think the only job he steals is Hoyer's. If Mac falls on his face upon return, then maybe they'll revisit.
 

DJnVa

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Does that stat mean much though? 43% of what sample size through 7 quarters? Wasn't he barely pressured at all last week?
If the sample size is too small for this stat, shouldn't it be too small for all of them?

Anyway, if the argument is that BB won't hesitate to make the switch to Zappe, then if he doesn't that says something as well.
 

rodderick

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The Pats are trouncing the Bears either way, so I'm expecting Mac to do everything he possibly can to come back this next week. If he doesn't, Zappe will have another win and good performance under his belt and while I don't think the coaching staff will take that into much consideration before going back to Mac when he's healthy, the fanbase and media certainly will.
 

Justthetippett

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The Pats are trouncing the Bears either way, so I'm expecting Mac to do everything he possibly can to come back this next week. If he doesn't, Zappe will have another win and good performance under his belt and while I don't think the coaching staff will take that into much consideration before going back to Mac when he's healthy, the fanbase and media certainly will.
Mac coming back for the Bears game is actually a bit of a risk for him. If he wins, he should have; if he loses, the birds really start chirping. And their defense is not terrible. It still comes down to health. When he comes back he better be physically able to perform.
 

Kliq

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This is the thing that stands out to me. I love that Zappe is keeping the ship afloat, but we couldn't have asked for better schedule luck when it comes to the defenses our backup QB has to face.

Also, let's see how Zappe responds once the league starts to figure out his tendencies. We've seen this a lot in the NFL where a QB comes out of nowhere to have a few good games (Gardner Minshew, Baker Mayfield, etc) but they aren't able to sustain for whatever reason. It's a little unfair to compare Zappe's two games in optimal conditions versus a season plus of Mac, who's faced harder defenses that have gameplanned specifically for him.

It's a great story, but in the end I think the only job he steals is Hoyer's. If Mac falls on his face upon return, then maybe they'll revisit.
Cooper Rush says hello!

Zappe has admirably done the job since coming it but I think we've learned very little about his ability over the long-term other than that when playing crappy defenses he can take care of the ball and avoid surrendering good field position.
 

Gash Prex

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According to Perry, Mac should be healthy enough to play against the Bears

View: https://twitter.com/PhilAPerry/status/1581979109197959168


I still firmly believe that Mac is a better QB right now than Zappe. There may be a silver lining for Mac sitting for a few weeks and seeing the offense play out. Getting Thornton and other playmakers involved in a more dynamic offense is the key to beating really good teams and defenses.

I also believe that if the Pats ran the Zappe offense against the Bills or the Eagles it would look closer to Cooper Rush on SNF than we would all like right now. I have not seen much blitzing or pressure against Zappe. That said, the point is always to move the ball and score points - not how you look doing it. If Mac comes back and continues to make bad decisions with the football, I expect Bill to move back to Zappe.

Mac made some great throws against the Ravens - but all that is overshadowed by the stupid picks.
 

rodderick

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My argument against this would be what indication has Mac given us that he can actually do more if when asked to do more his performance level has dropped significantly? I think it's unquestionable he can do what Zappe has been doing, I don't know where the certainty he "can do more" comes from. If anything he's given indication he struggles when being asked to be more aggressive and carry more of the offensive load.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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My argument against this would be what indication has Mac given us that he can actually do more if when asked to do more his performance level has dropped significantly? I think it's unquestionable he can do what Zappe has been doing, I don't know where the certainty he "can do more" comes from. If anything he's given indication he struggles when being asked to be more aggressive and carry more of the offensive load.
I read that as saying the Pats were trying to have Mac throw deep earlier this year and with Zappe they're not doing that at all. So maybe Mac will benefit from fewer deep throws.

Mac's arm strength is better than Zappe's and in the last few games there have been situations where Zappe hasn't made his first read quickly enough when the play was there to be made, so decision-making may also be a strength for Mac here.
 

rodderick

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I read that as saying the Pats were trying to have Mac throw deep earlier this year and with Zappe they're not doing that at all. So maybe Mac will benefit from fewer deep throws.

Mac's arm strength is better than Zappe's and in the last few games there have been situations where Zappe hasn't made his first read quickly enough when the play was there to be made, so decision-making may also be a strength for Mac here.
Yeah, I don't know about that. Think i saw more line drives from Zappe yesterday than I've seen from Mac ever.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I love all the excuses for Mac - especially the ones about being asked to do more in a new offense. As if it doesn't also apply to the 4th round pick that's only been on the team for 6 months.

I'm fine with Mac coming back and starting because he'll either play well and the team will keep rolling or he won't and we'll see Zappe again this year.
 

Justthetippett

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According to Perry, Mac should be healthy enough to play against the Bears

View: https://twitter.com/PhilAPerry/status/1581979109197959168


I still firmly believe that Mac is a better QB right now than Zappe. There may be a silver lining for Mac sitting for a few weeks and seeing the offense play out. Getting Thornton and other playmakers involved in a more dynamic offense is the key to beating really good teams and defenses.

I also believe that if the Pats ran the Zappe offense against the Bills or the Eagles it would look closer to Cooper Rush on SNF than we would all like right now. I have not seen much blitzing or pressure against Zappe. That said, the point is always to move the ball and score points - not how you look doing it. If Mac comes back and continues to make bad decisions with the football, I expect Bill to move back to Zappe.

Mac made some great throws against the Ravens - but all that is overshadowed by the stupid picks.
If Mac comes back and turns the ball over at the rate he was before the injury, he’s going to get yanked.
 

Cellar-Door

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The ADOT thing is dumb. It's not a particularly indicative measure of anything.
Zappe through 3 games has an IAY/A (same thing, but usually what people use with ADOT being for WRs) of 6.5. That's low for sure... it's also tied with Burrow and Herbert, ahead of Stafford. Mahomes is at 7, the top 5 players in IAY/A are Jameis, Mac Jones, Mariota, Trubisky and Fields.

Zappe is putting up great ANY/A numbers (just under 8 which puts him 3rd behind Allen and Tua and just in front of Herbert and Mahomes), that's a much better indicator of performance.

There are a lot of reasons to think Mac gets the job back, including the quality of defense, but Zappe has played VERY well in the last 2 games particularly. If throwing deep (mostly he's thrown less in the 30-49 range, around the same on 10-19 and 20-29 range, actually has one 50+ to Mac's 0) less often is getting you more yards per attempt.... you should take the yards. And the assumption that because it is mostly "shorter" throws Mac could do as well or better is a poor understanding of QB play. Identifying which throw to make is the most important part, because you can't know if the higher IAY is because Mac would have thrown deep more and missed out on shorter throws that with YAC are more productive
 

lexrageorge

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As for Mac being able to "do more", he should at least have a greater command of the playbook and be able to play with different personnel sets, etc. I just think we haven't seen much of it as the team was running the offense differently. Also, the OL seemingly has had more time to gel, and Zappe has gotten some help from his defense when it comes to game situations:

IOW, Zappe hasn't had to play against the Dolphins defense yet, or really any similar quality of defensive squad.

Playing with a mostly complete offense against a lousy Bears team should be a better comparison point for Mac Jones.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
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I don't disagree with any of that. I will note that several times in the last few games Zappe has shown his inexperience by not making the first read throw when it was there. That's not a knock on him, rather an indication that he's still learning to process at NFL speed.
 

Jimbodandy

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As for Mac being able to "do more", he should at least have a greater command of the playbook and be able to play with different personnel sets, etc. I just think we haven't seen much of it as the team was running the offense differently. Also, the OL seemingly has had more time to gel, and Zappe has gotten some help from his defense when it comes to game situations:

IOW, Zappe hasn't had to play against the Dolphins defense yet, or really any similar quality of defensive squad.

Playing with a mostly complete offense against a lousy Bears team should be a better comparison point for Mac Jones.
Bears team is garbage but their defense isn't bad, especially against the pass. We're going to learn something next week whoever the QB is.
 

DJnVa

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Bears team is garbage but their defense isn't bad, especially against the pass. We're going to learn something next week whoever the QB is.
Yeah, the Bears allow the 4th fewest passing yards per game and the 4th most rushing yards. Some of that is likely due to game situations. In their first game they played against Trey Lance in a rainstorm, they also played the Giants when the NYG only had to throw the ball 13 times and got to face Wentz as well.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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There are usually multiple options on every passing play and the issues that both Breer and Lombardi cite are Mac's decisions and going off-script. Again, whether that is true or not only Belichick and Patricia know, but what is pretty clear is that the coaching staff didn't simply draw up plays "to have Mac throw deep earlier this year" regardless of the consequences.
 

BusRaker

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I just hope we don't see a hobbled Mac start over a healthy Zappe, but I just don't see BB doing that the way Zappe has been executing the game plan. Also considering Hoyer started over Zappe tells me something about what Zappe had shown in practice (against of course a great Pats defense) so I think a 100% Mac will start
 

koufax32

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Mac can play at 80-90% =/= Mac should play at 80-90%. Only the team knows where he is and how he’s progressed, but if ever there was a time to just wait and let him get closer to 100%, this is it.
Of course, he might try to rush back sooner because he hears the rising cacophony for Zappe, so getting an accurate read on his ankle strength might be difficult.
 

brandonchristensen

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I will say this - when Mac went down, I thought the season was over. Now I don't.

I do really wonder how we'd be doing right now if Mac stayed healthy. Would they have adapted the offense like they have with Zappe? Hard to tell.
 

luckiestman

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I will say this - when Mac went down, I thought the season was over. Now I don't.

I do really wonder how we'd be doing right now if Mac stayed healthy. Would they have adapted the offense like they have with Zappe? Hard to tell.
Belichick and Parcells went 8-8 with Rick Mirer and Ray Lucas after Vinny went down week 1 in 1999. The dude can flat out coach. Actually makes it hard to evaluate these QBs because BB could coach mediocre guys to play winning ball.