The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

ponch73

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I actually needed that, I did have amnesia on some of his really nice throws.

A few things stood out to me:
  1. He tries to get the ball out really quickly, sometimes you can see a better throw available, but he's stuck on a read. Something we've seen really hinder him this year
  2. Not once did I see him step into the pocket like Zappe did last game. He doesn't seem to have the same pocket presence
  3. As a result of 1 and 2, there are a large number of throws off his back foot in that video
  4. There are a number of really shit throws in that video where the receiver bailed him out
Mac's highlight reel shows great touch, but there were definitely a lot of throws that could have benefited from more zip. I also agree with you about Mac's pocket presence. What's surprising to me is that he's a pretty athletic guy (decent 40 time, tennis player), but still looks almost plodding on the field to me. Speaks to the average athleticism of NFL starters.

It's still early, but I'm a bit concerned that we're not seeing the performance improvement that you'd expect from someone playing their second year for Bill. I can't think of the last player who regressed in year 2 who was eventually successful playing for Belichick. Hopefully, sustained improvement in o-line play cures all ills.
 
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Silverdude2167

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Not sure if Mike Florio is a reputable source or not ...

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-insider-claims-quiet-friction-135945511.html

I should also point out that there's definitely loud friction between me and Mac Jones' 2022 TD/INT ratio ...
A reporter quotes no sources but thinks he is close to being able to say there is quiet friction between a player and a coach based off of um what the spirits tell him I guess.

Pepperidge farms remembers when reporters only reported things based on actual sources...
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Mac's highlight reel shows great touch, but there were definitely a lot of throws that could have benefited from more zip. I also agree with you about Mac's pocket presence. What's surprising to me is that he's a pretty athletic guy (decent 40 time, tennis player), but still looks almost plodding on the field to me. Speaks to the average athleticism of NFL starters.

It's still early, but I'm a bit concerned that we're not seeing the performance improvement that you'd expect from someone playing their second year for Bill. I can't think of the last player who regressed in year 2 who was eventually successful playing for Belichick. Hopefully, sustained improvement in o-line play cures all ills.
McCourty regressed pretty badly. He was a standout at CB as a rookie, played poorly the next year and into year 3, then they moved him to safety (when they picked up Talib maybe).
 

Eddie Jurak

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A few things stood out to me:
  1. He tries to get the ball out really quickly, sometimes you can see a better throw available, but he's stuck on a read. Something we've seen really hinder him this year
  2. Not once did I see him step into the pocket like Zappe did last game. He doesn't seem to have the same pocket presence
  3. As a result of 1 and 2, there are a large number of throws off his back foot in that video
  4. There are a number of really shit throws in that video where the receiver bailed him out
Wow. Not a lot of words in your post, but I think you managed hit the core of Mac's problems.

Mac doesn't have the arm to overcome bad mechanics, but he plays in a way that has him rushing a lot of throws off his back foot.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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mikcou

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Absolutely, Kosar and Bledsoe had extensive NFL track records...

I don't see what point you're making pointing out that they reverted back to a basic offense. Of course they did, it was a 4th rounder's 1st career start, he had never even taken starter's reps in practice until last week. We know that offense wasn't enough last year with Mac... what if Zappe starts to show quicker progress in it than Mac did?? You say he's clearly working out the kinks this year but statistically he hasn't been good.


Does Mac make that throw?

I really don't want to sound crazy here, I do think it's Mac's job to lose, but I don't think it's a total lock given what's transpired so far this season.
Is this a serious question? Its a clean pocket to a wide open receiver. Anyone who doesnt consistently hit that throw should never be throwing the ball. Jakobi Meyers hits that throw (if he wasnt running the route) and probably any other WR in the league that teams use to run WR passes.

Perhaps Brian Hoyer doesnt hit it, but hes pretty awful even by backup standards.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I am still a Mac guy (in the sense that I think he’s much more likely than Zappe to develop into a QB who they can win a SB with, so they have to ride him when he’s healthy to see if he can show progress in Year 2). That said, Mac and his 1 season plus 3 games of NFL experience questioning BB’s picks for his coaching staff is kind of wild (even though we’ve had plenty of discussion of it here). It’s one thing for fans to grumble, its another for a 2nd year QB to question decisions made by his coach when the coach is the greatest coach of all time. But, I bet the report is made up bullshit.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Is this a serious question? Its a clean pocket to a wide open receiver. Anyone who doesnt consistently hit that throw should never be throwing the ball. Jakobi Meyers hits that throw (if he wasnt running the route) and probably any other WR in the league that teams use to run WR passes.

Perhaps Brian Hoyer doesnt hit it, but hes pretty awful even by backup standards.
Maybe a little Friday night posting hyperbole... ;)

Not saying Mac doesn't have the arm strength, but I'm not sure he makes that throw every time. Jakobi is open, but he still has to throw a dart over the corner and get it there before the safety comes over, I feel like Mac often floats those balls a little more than that throw. And is he the first read? Or is Zappe looking to Henry over the middle first?

In Mac's highlight reel posted, there are only a few throws of that nature. Considering what Mac's been criticized for, pocket presence and leaving plays on the table, I think it's a throw worth noting.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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I am still a Mac guy (in the sense that I think he’s much more likely than Zappe to develop into a QB who they can win a SB with, so they have to ride him when he’s healthy to see if he can show progress in Year 2). That said, Mac and his 1 season plus 3 games of NFL experience questioning BB’s picks for his coaching staff is kind of wild (even though we’ve had plenty of discussion of it here). It’s one thing for fans to grumble, its another for a 2nd year QB to question decisions made by his coach when the coach is the greatest coach of all time. But, I bet the report is made up bullshit.
This is the other crumb that makes me wonder. Mac and Bourne seem to be a bit disgruntled, one way or another, and now we're seeing the team and coaches rally around a back up, with Patricia and Judge being lauded for their work after being dragged through the mud daily for months. Add in the BB quote that Super Nomario posted "What he saw is usually what I saw" and it starts to sound less crazy that there might be internal discussions about who is a better fit and has the higher ceiling long term.
 

axx

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I would be competely fine with letting Mac fully heal before sending him back out. Zappe's played well enough that they don't need to rush.
 

luckiestman

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I would be competely fine with letting Mac fully heal before sending him back out. Zappe's played well enough that they don't need to rush.
Zappe only coming out if he gets hurt or sucks in a game
 

sodenj5

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Zappe only coming out if he gets hurt or sucks in a game
I’m asking because I haven’t been watching. Is Zappe actually playing better than Mac or have they leaned very heavily on the run game to protect Zappe?

I was assuming the running game was going wild, and Zappe was making plays off of that, not Zappe usurping Mac.
 

Marciano490

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I’m asking because I haven’t been watching. Is Zappe actually playing better than Mac or have they leaned very heavily on the run game to protect Zappe?

I was assuming the running game was going wild, and Zappe was making plays off of that, not Zappe usurping Mac.
We had just over 100 yards total rushing and Zappe threw for over 300, at almost 10 yards an attempt, so I’d say he was legit good and not just taking advantage of a great run game.
 

ponch73

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I’m asking because I haven’t been watching. Is Zappe actually playing better than Mac or have they leaned very heavily on the run game to protect Zappe?

I was assuming the running game was going wild, and Zappe was making plays off of that, not Zappe usurping Mac.
Zappe has outplayed Mac with several caveats: (1) it's only been 2 starts, (2) he's had better o-line protection and (3) he's faced weaker secondaries and opposing coaching staffs.

With that being said, Zappe's been more efficient in running the offense and has better pocket awareness than Mac.
 
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RorschachsMask

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I’m asking because I haven’t been watching. Is Zappe actually playing better than Mac or have they leaned very heavily on the run game to protect Zappe?

I was assuming the running game was going wild, and Zappe was making plays off of that, not Zappe usurping Mac.
It’s both better play calling/O-Line play, and yeah he’s absolutely playing better than Mac did to start the season.

But i think Mac would look better than he did the first few weeks, if he had played these past two games.
 

RorschachsMask

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Did the O line also look better because Zappe can move around in the pocket and avoid pressure? Something we saw little of from Mac
I personally like him more than Mac, in my totally unqualified opinion. Zappe throws a better ball IMO, can actually zip it in there on slants, which is a huge weapon in the red zone. Today they opened the offense up some, and he looked awesome.

But there’s no way Mac loses his job unless he comes back and keeps turning the ball over.
 

Marciano490

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I personally like him more than Mac, in my totally unqualified opinion. Zappe throws a better ball IMO, can actually zip it in there on slants, which is a huge weapon in the red zone. Today they opened the offense up some, and he looked awesome.

But there’s no way Mac loses his job unless he comes back and keeps turning the ball over.
Why? He has the pedigree, but Bill already replaced a first rounder with much more talent than Mac with a later round draft pick who came in and played better.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Did the O line also look better because Zappe can move around in the pocket and avoid pressure? Something we saw little of from Mac
Yes…there’s a reason why the great quarterbacks don’t get sacked much and the poor ones (remember Eason?) are always getting sacked. No one has a lot of time back there and a vital skill (that Mac hasn’t shown) is pocket presence and the ability to climb the pocket.
 

RorschachsMask

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Why? He has the pedigree, but Bill already replaced a first rounder with much more talent than Mac with a later round draft pick who came in and played better.
I think there’s a difference between replacing a QB you had when you came in as coach, and a guy you spent the 15th pick on a season ago.

I’m not really giving my opinion, just what I think they will do. Mac had a very good rookie season, and I don’t think they’d replace him because he struggled for a few games in a brand new system.
 

radsoxfan

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I think there’s a difference between replacing a QB you had when you came in as coach, and a guy you spent the 15th pick on a season ago.

I’m not really giving my opinion, just what I think they will do. Mac had a very good rookie season, and I don’t think they’d replace him because he struggled for a few games in a brand new system.
I agree, I would be pretty surprised given the totality of the situation.

If Zappe had been absolutely lights out and clearly outplaying Mac all preseason, maybe... but that didn't seem to be the case. Hard to imagine a couple mediocre games in a new system would be enough for Mac to lose his job.

Definitely gives them the ability to allow Mac heal up closer to full strength though.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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I doubt Bill sticks with Zappe at this point. Though I think it’s a mistake, he’ll go back to Mac. Everyone mentions his decision to stick with Brady over Bledsoe, but more recently he had a thoroughly washed up Cam absolutely stinking up the joint and yet he stubbornly kept starting him. I believe that’s who he is now. Here’s hoping for the old Bill.
Why? He has the pedigree, but Bill already replaced a first rounder with much more talent than Mac with a later round draft pick who came in and played better.
 

Arroyoyo

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I think Zappe gets another week and if he plays similarly to how he’s played the last three weeks Mac’s hitting the bench.
 

Arroyoyo

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It’s ALWAYS about what’s in the best interest of the team with Bill. Cam stunk up the joint but who was going to really step in and make the offense better at the time? This is a different situation: if Zappe keeps it up on and off the field (where all reports are he’s busting his ass in the film room and on the practice field), he’ll be the starter of the New England Patriots.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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I think Zappe gets another week and if he plays similarly to how he’s played the last three weeks Mac’s hitting the bench.
The Bears stink and the Pats should be a close to a touchdown favorite or even more.
Why would doing well against the Bears move the needle?

Zappe has played full games against the Lions and Browns who are both terrible defensively. Why would Bill move on from his starting QB based on what Zappe did against those two defenses?
 

speedracer

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No one has a lot of time back there and a vital skill (that Mac hasn’t shown) is pocket presence and the ability to climb the pocket.
Not convinced this is totally true? Mac's career sack% so far is around 5.1%.

By comparison Brees is 3.8%, Brady 4.6%, Kirk Cousins 5.3%, Matt Stafford 5.8%, Russell Wilson 8.3%.
 

Arroyoyo

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Browns are slightly below average in both yards per game and points per game. They’re not great, but you’ve exaggerated how bad they really are.

If you want to play this game, you’d have to remove every “good” performance Mac had last year against mediocre or bad defenses to justify arguing that he’s the better choice than Zappe should Zappe have three good-to-great games in a row as a starter, and a near upset coming in cold against Green Bay in Green Bay.

No one is saying Zappe is the second coming of Tom Brady based on what we’ve seen. No one thinks he’s a slam dunk over Mac. But remember, Mac’s training wheels were so large last season that he played a game where he basically didn’t throw a ball downfield because he didn’t (and still doesn’t) have the arm to deal with strong winds. That’s kind of unprecedented for an NFL quarterback. He’s not some off-the-charts talent, especially - as it appears - standing side-by-side with Zappe.

So if Zappe keeps playing well, and the offense keeps moving the ball against NFL defenses filled with grown men being paid generational wealth to stop him from moving the ball, why wouldn’t you ride it out?

Because Mac was a first rounder who dinked and dunked the team to 10-7 before getting smoked by the Bills in the playoffs and then absolutely shitting the bed his first few games of 2022?

If Mac had the talent of Herbert or maybe even Lawrence I’d get wanting to chase his “ceiling” despite a backup playing better. But he’s not those guys, and he never will be. He’s physically slow on the field, kinda smart in interviews but kind of dopey on the field, and apparently is in the midst of butting heads with a coaching staff that has a fourth round kid looking like an above-average NFL starter.

If Zappe is doing everything right and winning because of it, why on earth would you bench him? So we don’t upset the Legendary Mac Jones?
 

Arroyoyo

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I’d love to get a few drinks in Judon and ask him who he prefers. “Hey Matt, do you prefer ‘3-and-out’ Mac at QB or the guy who, thus far, is sustaining drives on offense at QB?”
 

Ed Hillel

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I’m asking because I haven’t been watching. Is Zappe actually playing better than Mac or have they leaned very heavily on the run game to protect Zappe?

I was assuming the running game was going wild, and Zappe was making plays off of that, not Zappe usurping Mac.
I am in no way a Mac hater, but Zappe has looked pretty awesome, particularly for a guy who is a freaking rookie and was thrown into the frying pan. The main difference is Zappe has pretty fantastic pocket presence, runs through his reads quicker, and has a better arm. Mac might read defenses better, but this is definitely a legitimate thing to be looking at going forward. If I'm BB, I'm not rushing Mac back, Zappe should keep getting run until he shows he shouldn't.
 

heavyde050

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I don't think either Mac or Zappe have big time NFL arms. Zappe has looked good in the pocket and moved the offense very well, while limiting turnovers. Mac was also moving the ball, but committing way too many turnovers.
I mean I think Zappe has been really good and has done all the staff could have possibly hoped for, but he has not come in and made Allen/Herbert/Mahomes type plays. He has been a very good starting QB that limits mistakes.
With this running game and defense - limiting mistakes and putting points on the board should be enough.

Edit - this draft write-up from Bleacher Report describes Zappe pretty well.
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10021431-bailey-zappe-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-western-kentucky-qb
 

PedrosRedGlove

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The Bears stink and the Pats should be a close to a touchdown favorite or even more.
Why would doing well against the Bears move the needle?

Zappe has played full games against the Lions and Browns who are both terrible defensively. Why would Bill move on from his starting QB based on what Zappe did against those two defenses?
It's not a reason to move on. But I think it's worth noting that, just looking at game sheet stats, 24/34, 309, 2TD/0INT, this was as clean and impressive a game as any Mac had last year. Mac's comparable games, 2-300 yards, 2-3 TDs, 0 INTs came in the blowout wins against NYJ, CLE, TEN, & JAX. Mac's needed a terrible defense to be this good so far as well.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Zappe has outplayed Mac with severeal caveats: (1) it's only been 2 starts, (2) he's had better o-line protection and (3) he's faced weaker secondaries and opposing coaching staffs.

With that being said, Zappe's been more efficient in running the offense and has better pocket awareness than Mac.
"Caveats" is doing some heavy lifting there. Zappe's a great story, but he's had a much easier ride. Let's see what he can do against some good teams and with greater expectations on him going into the game.

My hope is that rather than getting strung out, Mac is watching this and realizing that if Bailey Fucking Zappe can succeed in the NFL, he sure as hell can.
 

DJnVa

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I’d love to get a few drinks in Judon and ask him who he prefers. “Hey Matt, do you prefer ‘3-and-out’ Mac at QB or the guy who, thus far, is sustaining drives on offense at QB?”
Every thought you have doesn't need a corresponding post.
 

snowmanny

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I agree, I would be pretty surprised given the totality of the situation.

If Zappe had been absolutely lights out and clearly outplaying Mac all preseason, maybe... but that didn't seem to be the case. Hard to imagine a couple mediocre games in a new system would be enough for Mac to lose his job.

Definitely gives them the ability to allow Mac heal up closer to full strength though.
This is a good point. Zappe hadn't even out-played Hoyer for the back-up job.

edit-although I assume he has now
 
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What Mac has been asked to do, gameplan-wise, this season versus what Zappe has been asked to do is not the same. Maybe Zappe will continue to progress, but it seems to me this remains an apples to oranges situation. That said, 38 points is 38 points, and I’m at the very least happy to see the team has two capable QBs in its arsenal.
 

Jungleland

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I'm excited about Zappe. The way he spread the ball around today was impressive and I agree he throws a nice ball. With that said, there are a few things that have me pumping the breaks on the idea that Mac's job is already almost lost:
  1. The offense clearly is in a better place now than it was in weeks 1 and 2. Obviously it's hard to divorce that from the QB play, but I don't think it's a stretch to say they're getting better play calling and line play than they were a month ago.
  2. Mac's struggles early on this year have been at least in part due to playing much more aggressively than at really any point last year. He hasn't lived up to the challenge yet, and we did see Zappe make at least one or two of those plays today (Parker's first catch is the first one that comes to mind). But it doesn't seem like they've asked anything crazy of Zappe yet, and I'm not convinced that Mac wouldn't have played just as well with the more careful and simplified offense we've seen in these two games.
  3. The Browns and the Lions might both really suck.
I'm not a Mac or bust guy. If Zappe ends up being the answer, awesome. I think he's given himself a real chance. But as of right now - even at 3-3 following two really nice Zappe wins - I think the idea Mac isn't going to get a chance to redeem himself is crazy.
 

BroodsSexton

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It’s also worth noting that in past years, even TB had slow starts as the team figured out OL play and play calling. So whatever, we’re on to Chicago, and Belichick will do whatever he thinks is in the best interest of the team. Tune in next week.
 

BaseballJones

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It’s also worth noting that in past years, even TB had slow starts as the team figured out OL play and play calling. So whatever, we’re on to Chicago, and Belichick will do whatever he thinks is in the best interest of the team. Tune in next week.
It’s a nice combination of figuring things out, fumble luck evening out, and playing weaker opponents.
 

FL4WL3SS

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What Mac has been asked to do, gameplan-wise, this season versus what Zappe has been asked to do is not the same. Maybe Zappe will continue to progress, but it seems to me this remains an apples to oranges situation. That said, 38 points is 38 points, and I’m at the very least happy to see the team has two capable QBs in its arsenal.
What was Mac asked to do that Zappe wasn't? Super interested in hearing your analysis.
 

tims4wins

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What Mac has been asked to do, gameplan-wise, this season versus what Zappe has been asked to do is not the same. Maybe Zappe will continue to progress, but it seems to me this remains an apples to oranges situation. That said, 38 points is 38 points, and I’m at the very least happy to see the team has two capable QBs in its arsenal.
Came in to post this. Mac was running a completely different offense. They clearly put an emphasis on pushing the ball down the field more. I think it’s pretty clear that either QB can be successful when they play like they did this week and last week - run the ball, play D, play from ahead, utilize play action, etc. And that formula is probably good enough to win against like 60-70% of the league. But I think they decided that it was not good enough to reach legit contender status, which is why they tried to push the ball further down the field earlier this year with Mac.

It will be very interesting to see their offensive approach when Mac returns. They have a chance to rip off a similar stretch as last season if they continue to play this way against some, let’s face it, not great competition. But will it be fool’s gold like last year? On the one hand, I hope they do whatever it takes to win each individual game. But on the other hand, I think if they are to become a championship contender, maybe they do need to figure out how to generate more big plays, without turning it over.
 

tims4wins

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What was Mac asked to do that Zappe wasn't? Super interested in hearing your analysis.
He led the league in air target yards or whatever the term is through 3 games. He was throwing downfield a ton. They weren’t using play action at all. Their running game was different.
 

Arroyoyo

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Are we sure that means that’s what he was being asked to do, though? Or were those decisions he was making going through his reads?
 

DJnVa

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He led the league in air target yards or whatever the term is through 3 games. He was throwing downfield a ton. They weren’t using play action at all. Their running game was different.
Additionally, play action under Jones was around 12% and it was 35% for Zappe.
 

DJnVa

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We play Chicago next week--we should be happy both our QBs are better than Fields.