The Unikornet

bigq

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Loved the double eclipse on Embiid’s wide open three last night (ineffective). I also love his facial expressions particularly after he makes a basket. He seems to be having a lot of fun and making the most of his opportunities to play. He is a joy to watch.
 

Just a bit outside

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Loved the double eclipse on Embiid’s wide open three last night (ineffective). I also love his facial expressions particularly after he makes a basket. He seems to be having a lot of fun and making the most of his opportunities to play. He is a joy to watch.
I texted my son last night that Kornet is living his best life. Love his joy.
 

DavidTai

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Loved the double eclipse on Embiid’s wide open three last night (ineffective). I also love his facial expressions particularly after he makes a basket. He seems to be having a lot of fun and making the most of his opportunities to play. He is a joy to watch.
I remember the first one Embiid pulled down then just shot it the second time and it going in, and the smug JVG going "I never believed in the Eclipse."

That said, really loved the moments he was on the floor, especially the just-before-halftime block.
 

bigq

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I remember the first one Embiid pulled down then just shot it the second time and it going in, and the smug JVG going "I never believed in the Eclipse."

That said, really loved the moments he was on the floor, especially the just-before-halftime block.
The lob and flush from the inbounds play with 0.5 remaining on the shot clock was great also.
 

chilidawg

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Who's the best on the Celtics at not fouling in situations where the opponent is trying to draw a foul? 1. White 2. Tatum 3. Uhhhhh ????

I feel like it's an easy skill to overlook, because it's the dog that didn't bark. You notice it more playing against a James Harden, but it crops up a few times a game anywhere.
Horford is good too, great point about it being an overlooked skill.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Loved the double eclipse on Embiid’s wide open three last night (ineffective). I also love his facial expressions particularly after he makes a basket. He seems to be having a lot of fun and making the most of his opportunities to play. He is a joy to watch.
The look on his face after Embiid made a comment about the Double Kontest was great.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar3zXaT6Exc
 

Reverend

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I remember the first one Embiid pulled down then just shot it the second time and it going in, and the smug JVG going "I never believed in the Eclipse."

That said, really loved the moments he was on the floor, especially the just-before-halftime block.
I know it’s dumb, but this irritated me because, like, the Kornet Kontest is sorta by definition not meant for use against 7-footers, so it’s failure here doesn’t mean shit. Actually, if it means anything, that he’d tey it—twice!—indicates just how much he’s integrated it into his game.

Which in a way is all of a piece with the other comments here about how he just seems to be having an absolute blast; best life indeed.
 

Koufax

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He had a light-hearted exchange with Embid after he hit the shot. He seems to know it's goofy and doesn't mind being kidded about it.
 

djbayko

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I know it’s dumb, but this irritated me because, like, the Kornet Kontest is sorta by definition not meant for use against 7-footers, so it’s failure here doesn’t mean shit. Actually, if it means anything, that he’d tey it—twice!—indicates just how much he’s integrated it into his game.

Which in a way is all of a piece with the other comments here about how he just seems to be having an absolute blast; best life indeed.
Well, it's also not going to work 100% of the time (assuming it works - who knows?). It's like saying Mike Trout can't hit because he struck out once.
 

benhogan

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This thread needs a bump. Had to go to Page 3 to find it.
BTW Yam Madar & JD Davidson have received more attention :eek:
(10 SoSH demerits for all the Cellar regulars)

Luke Kornet 20pts (9-11) / 8 rebs/ 3 blocks / 3 assists in 33 minutes.

Between him & Queta, this team has competent Beef Centers on the bench.
(Brissett provides small-ball 5 depth)

Every time dirt gets shoveled on Good Ole Luke's grave he resurrects like Beatrix Kiddo

The Princeton weave with White, PP, Hauser, Svi, Luke was the high point of the game last night.
 

InstaFace

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The Princeton weave with White, PP, Hauser, Svi, Luke was the high point of the game last night.
Can you (or anyone) find a clip of this? It didn't jump out at me watching live. But I love me some weaving, I saw the Globetrotters on Tuesday and the weave is one of their best sets (right up there with midget stunts).
 

DavidTai

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Kliq

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Kornet has such a fun personality--I loved his reaction when he tipped-in a shot late in the fourth quarter and thought he was being whistled for offensive goal tending, but it was actually the refs calling a foul on Toronto. He went from flabbergasted to giving the refs a double-thumbs up.

I feel like if I happened to be a 7'2" NBA player, I would react the way Kornet does.
 

slamminsammya

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This thread needs a bump. Had to go to Page 3 to find it.
BTW Yam Madar & JD Davidson have received more attention :eek:
(10 SoSH demerits for all the Cellar regulars)

Luke Kornet 20pts (9-11) / 8 rebs/ 3 blocks / 3 assists in 33 minutes.

Between him & Queta, this team has competent Beef Centers on the bench.
(Brissett provides small-ball 5 depth)

Every time dirt gets shoveled on Good Ole Luke's grave he resurrects like Beatrix Kiddo

The Princeton weave with White, PP, Hauser, Svi, Luke was the high point of the game last night.
I can't believe people think we can make a significant upgrade on his role.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Kornet has such a fun personality--I loved his reaction when he tipped-in a shot late in the fourth quarter and thought he was being whistled for offensive goal tending, but it was actually the refs calling a foul on Toronto. He went from flabbergasted to giving the refs a double-thumbs up.

I feel like if I happened to be a 7'2" NBA player, I would react the way Kornet does.
He should lean in to a retro 70s look.
1976 STEVE KUBERSKI TOPPS #54 CELTICS - OPC Baseball.com
 

bakahump

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My son and wife whilst liking Kornet (my wife more then my “everyone needs to be an all star” son) say he looks like he smells.
seems like an accurate description.
 

djbayko

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My son and wife whilst liking Kornet (my wife more then my “everyone needs to be an all star” son) say he looks like he smells.
seems like an accurate description.
It’s the greasy hair. Every time he’s on the court it looks like he has bed head and skipped showering that day.
 

joe dokes

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I had no idea Luke was a nepo baby
Not the only one on the Cs. One of Frank's teammates was Tito Horford.

Interestingly (to me, anyway) those c.1990 Bucks also had Gerald Henderson, Brad Lohaus, Jerry Sichting and Fred Roberts.
 

cardiacs

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Kornet gives me Greg from Succession vibes, so between that and legendary big man Greg Kite he should have been named Greg Kornet.
 

Kliq

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Kornet has to be one of very, very few players in NBA history to come into the league as a stretch 5 and convert himself into a rim-running big.
 

Euclis20

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Kornet has to be one of very, very few players in NBA history to come into the league as a stretch 5 and convert himself into a rim-running big.
It's really something. His first 3 years in the league he averaged 8.2 3PA/36 and shot .339 from 3 (not exactly good, but plenty of teams are fine with their centers shooting that if they are wide open). His last 3 years it's 0.5 3PA/36, and he hasn't taken a single 3 pointer this year in 284 minutes.
 

Kliq

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It's really something. His first 3 years in the league he averaged 8.2 3PA/36 and shot .339 from 3 (not exactly good, but plenty of teams are fine with their centers shooting that if they are wide open). His last 3 years it's 0.5 3PA/36, and he hasn't taken a single 3 pointer this year in 284 minutes.
That's really the remarkable thing. I think he had the NCAA record for most career three pointers by a center--he was definitely a shooter in college and when he came into the NBA. And despite the fact that he has that skill in his back pocket, he never, ever does. It's like a psychological thing where he can only do one or the other.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Just a process note: Kornet is on a partially guaranteed deal right now, totaling $2.4 mil this season. It becomes fully guaranteed on January 10th

I'd be pretty stunned if they cut him over the remaining $1.5 mil or so even acknowledging that with the lux tax that multiples. But I note the date here as it's now close...
 

Double Down Trent

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That's really the remarkable thing. I think he had the NCAA record for most career three pointers by a center--he was definitely a shooter in college and when he came into the NBA. And despite the fact that he has that skill in his back pocket, he never, ever does. It's like a psychological thing where he can only do one or the other.
I've thought about this too. Timelord was a rim runner who teams sagged off of and he worked hard this past offseason to develop a jump shot. But he was also passing a lot at the top of the key.

With Kornet it's funny, I rarely ever see him in a position where he has the ball outside the paint, facing the rim with an open jump shot or three pointer. He is almost exclusively a screener who runs to the rim. I wonder if it might open things up for the offense if the defense anticipates his movement and he can step out and hit a jumper? But this situation rarely happens, so maybe its a moot point?
 

slamminsammya

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I've thought about this too. Timelord was a rim runner who teams sagged off of and he worked hard this past offseason to develop a jump shot. But he was also passing a lot at the top of the key.

With Kornet it's funny, I rarely ever see him in a position where he has the ball outside the paint, facing the rim with an open jump shot or three pointer. He is almost exclusively a screener who runs to the rim. I wonder if it might open things up for the offense if the defense anticipates his movement and he can step out and hit a jumper? But this situation rarely happens, so maybe its a moot point?
he's very proficient around the hoop and sets good screens, my feeling is why mess with what's working?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Kornet has to be one of very, very few players in NBA history to come into the league as a stretch 5 and convert himself into a rim-running big.
Am I recalling a story about him having a late growth sport just prior to college or thinking of someone else?
 

DavidTai

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Am I recalling a story about him having a late growth sport just prior to college or thinking of someone else?
I remember this being Kelly Olynyk having a late growth spurt taking him from point guard to big man in college, which was why he didn't play much like a big.
 

Euclis20

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Am I recalling a story about him having a late growth sport just prior to college or thinking of someone else?
Happened to a few guys, but Kornet had a bigger growth spurt than most:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-late-growth-spurts-spawned-some-of-college-basketballs-most-talented-big-men-163504310.html#:~:text=Significant growth spurts can affect,rolling his ankles a lot.

Others have experienced similar difficulties. Significant growth spurts can affect coordination. Vanderbilt’s Luke Kornet, who grew from 6-foot-2 to 6-foot-10 between his sophomore and senior years of high school and didn’t stop growing until he was 7-foot-1 his sophomore year of college, remembers rolling his ankles a lot. He, like Leaf, had joint pain, and sometimes struggled to lift his legs when trying to run.
 

slamminsammya

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All these stories of big guys being skilled because they initially trained as a guard makes me wonder why they don't just train every promising player as if they'll be a guard.
 

Kliq

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All these stories of big guys being skilled because they initially trained as a guard makes me wonder why they don't just train every promising player as if they'll be a guard.
There was a story recently about Chet's development as a young player. Once he showed promise as a kid, since it was very likely he would have NBA height (his dad is a 7 footer who played at University of Minnesota) he was intentionally trained like a guard in order for him to develop like a basketball player, as opposed to being taught to be a "big man" which really at this point, a very flawed player. There was a reason there was basically a whole lost generation of big men in the NBA in the 2010s, the game evolved beyond that skillset and the generation of NBA players were not ready for it. The European game was far ahead of the US in that regard, and it's only been recently that we've seen the multi-faceted American big men arrive.
 

benhogan

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I've thought about this too. Timelord was a rim runner who teams sagged off of and he worked hard this past offseason to develop a jump shot. But he was also passing a lot at the top of the key.

With Kornet it's funny, I rarely ever see him in a position where he has the ball outside the paint, facing the rim with an open jump shot or three pointer. He is almost exclusively a screener who runs to the rim. I wonder if it might open things up for the offense if the defense anticipates his movement and he can step out and hit a jumper? But this situation rarely happens, so maybe its a moot point?
I'd like to see Kornet fire a few (SAS game would have been a good time) from the top of the key. You want to avoid Centers just living in the paint, never taking perimeter jumpers.

Even Aron Baynes came up with a handful of key 3s in a playoff series against the 76ers.

Also Luke would increase his value quite a bit if developed that shot, which shouldn't be all that tough for him. He had over 400 3PAs in his first 4 seasons.
 

lovegtm

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He's somehow only 28, so it wouldn't be crazy for him to re-extend his range at some point. I don't see why he couldn't have a Brook Lopez type late career renaissance, if things broke right for him with his shot.

If you watch his early career highlights, he was a real shooter. This isn't some big guy winding up forever to take his 1.3 3s per game:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpdA51l9rUE
 
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joe dokes

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There was a story recently about Chet's development as a young player. Once he showed promise as a kid, since it was very likely he would have NBA height (his dad is a 7 footer who played at University of Minnesota) he was intentionally trained like a guard in order for him to develop like a basketball player, as opposed to being taught to be a "big man" which really at this point, a very flawed player. There was a reason there was basically a whole lost generation of big men in the NBA in the 2010s, the game evolved beyond that skillset and the generation of NBA players were not ready for it. The European game was far ahead of the US in that regard, and it's only been recently that we've seen the multi-faceted American big men arrive.
Thought experiment...what if Ralph Sampson had been born a generation later?
 

NomarsFool

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All these stories of big guys being skilled because they initially trained as a guard makes me wonder why they don't just train every promising player as if they'll be a guard.
Typically, I would say the kids who are quite tall early are also typically much more uncoordinated as they are still growing into their bodies. At the youth level, you usually see the best ballhandlers and shooters are very small, which is a shame, because unless they have a later growth spurt, they aren’t going to be tall enough to play in high school. In contrast, those kids that are over 6 feet in middle school are usually very gangly with poor hands and can’t handle or even catch the ball and certainly can’t dribble. Of course there are lots of exceptions.
 

PedroKsBambino

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We talked some about Sampson in the Wemby thread pre-draft. It's the best comp out there, imo. A few observations about that...

1) Sampson is not thought of as an example of the physical risks of someone that tall---he played 8 years. But he only played 50+ games once after age 25 (and that one year he only averaged 18 minutes/game). Guys this big who do more than stand around being tall (e.g. Mark Eaton) hvae a really spotty track record health-wise

2) Sampson infamously fought being a 'big man' and never wanted to learn post moves or a go-to. His perimeter/dribbling style would fit infinitely better today than it did in the 1980s

3) There's no way to know how he would have developed differently as a player in the 3pt era, but there's little evidence statistically he actually would have been a good modern stretch big - he shot very few threes, and hit only 17% of them; his FT % peaked at 78% but over his career was 66%. That's almost exactly the same as his college FT%.

4) Looking at his college stats, then his pro stats, it's kind of remarkable how little he developed from Freshman year of college through second year as a pro. To be clear, he was one of the best players around for all that but the only real growth was his third year as a pro, where both assists and steals jumped. And then he started getting hurt. I say that only to tee up that in his specific case, there's reason to wonder if he would ever have developed differently in any era or just was what he was
 

HomeRunBaker

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The college game limited him bigly back then as teams would pack in the tightest 2-3 zone possible and run two other defenders at him on the catch daring Othell Wilson and Ricky Stokes to shoot. There was also no 3-pt line when he was in college and floor spacing really didn't exist.

Now he gets to the pros and Fitch never allowed him to expand his game unlike what Pop is doing this year w Wemby. Fitch was not into innovation so this isn't surprising and as far as veteran "leadership".....here are the guys Ralph learned how to be a professional from:

Mitchell Wiggins, Pre-Rehab John Lucas, Lewis Lloyd and Dirk Minniefield....all 4 suspended from the league at one time or another for cocaine use. Then they added Joe Barry Carroll (aka Joe Barely Cares) along with some other characters, and the era at the time and it's no wonder Sampson didn't reach his ceiling. I'm sure much of this was his own fault too as he could play very soft at times (most times?) but certainly not the best environment for a young player to step into.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Totally agree - his pro context was rough (I think overall his college context was awfully supportive). I guess what I'm saying is what you have in your last sentence, too - some (perhaps a great deal) of this is on him and motivation/drive don't change because eras do.

Anyway, I do think he's the best Wemby comp and also that as several have noted it's a wildely different era and context for a multi-skiled big man.
 

Montana Fan

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IIRC, Sampson had a nice mid-range jumper and excellent shooting form. I can think of no reason he wouldn’t have been Porzingis like with the ease of shooting a 25 footer.
 

benhogan

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The college game limited him bigly back then as teams would pack in the tightest 2-3 zone possible and run two other defenders at him on the catch daring Othell Wilson and Ricky Stokes to shoot. There was also no 3-pt line when he was in college and floor spacing really didn't exist.

Now he gets to the pros and Fitch never allowed him to expand his game unlike what Pop is doing this year w Wemby. Fitch was not into innovation so this isn't surprising and as far as veteran "leadership".....here are the guys Ralph learned how to be a professional from:

Mitchell Wiggins, Pre-Rehab John Lucas, Lewis Lloyd and Dirk Minniefield....all 4 suspended from the league at one time or another for cocaine use. Then they added Joe Barry Carroll (aka Joe Barely Cares) along with some other characters, and the era at the time and it's no wonder Sampson didn't reach his ceiling. I'm sure much of this was his own fault too as he could play very soft at times (most times?) but certainly not the best environment for a young player to step into.
Ha, Ricky Stokes & Othell Wilson, good memory. I always envision Ralph Sampson getting bottled up by that 2-3 with him frustratingly kicking the ball out to Jeff Lamp on those UVa teams.

Sampson/Olajuwon were supposed to dominate NBA basketball at one point.
 

PedroKsBambino

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IIRC, Sampson had a nice mid-range jumper and excellent shooting form. I can think of no reason he wouldn’t have been Porzingis like with the ease of shooting a 25 footer.
No way to know of course. Porzingis' last year in Europe he shot 77% on FT at age 20; at same age Sampson shot 63% from the line (and never really got over 70% in college) so the primary reason to doubt it for Sampson is he never showed even average touch from 15 feet on any consistent basis, though I agree he COULD look good on any given shot.

What's very hard about cross-era comparisons is to know how much it would have been differnet for Sampson (or anyone from his era) if he had grown up shooting more threes/jumpers. I don't think what you say is at all unreasonable and may be quite possible---but we also know it is true even today that not everyone can develop a 3pt shot. So in the world of uncertainty on cross-era stuff I'm uncomfortable projecting growth we simply have zero evidence for vs. projecting it in threes for a guy who shot very well everywhere else and who, just as a product of the era, never shot threes in the 70s/80s
 

Eagle3

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I remember the hype around Virginia playing Georgetown in Dec of '82 because Sampson and Ewing were squaring off. Virginia won and Ralph scored more points than Patrick but as I recall it was pretty much a wash in terms of the individual matchup.