The Unikornet

DavidTai

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If AD was shooting at 80 percent from 2 without the switches, a 3-point shooter would have to hit like 53-54 percent from 3 to really punish that.

You'd need like, God-Mode Curry to do better.
 

lovegtm

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Some of those Kornet switches were terribly slow and awkward. If the Lakers knew what the hell they were doing they could have gotten way better looks
Interestingly, LeBron did try to take advantage of the slow switch by just passing directly to Westbrook to enter it to AD. The problem is that Kornet was still near AD and could deny the entry.

The other counter is for Westbrook to get it quickly and shoot, but, well.....lol.

This strategy is specifically good when the other team is playing Russell Westbrook in crunchtime.
 

the moops

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If only that LeBron James knew how to read a defense and pass the ball, the Lakers would have won for sure. A real smart player would pick that a part, right?
If Lebron was the only person with the ball in his hands your snark would be called for. Not sure how anyone can watch that video and come away with that the Lakers were doing everything right and it was just Kornets ability to switch that caused the issues
 

DavidTai

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If Lebron was the only person with the ball in his hands your snark would be called for. Not sure how anyone can watch that video and come away with that the Lakers were doing everything right and it was just Kornets ability to switch that caused the issues
My conclusion was more "Man, the Lakers kept getting shorter guys onto AD. We need more size down there". Which, well, the Celtics figured out and devised ways to get him there. Blake's not mobile enough to handle the role Kornet is in.

In short, watching that video, I came away less with 'Lakers doing everything right' and more "We really miss Al and TimeLord, but Kornet will do in a pinch."

I'm more "Not sure how anyone can watch that video, and come away with that the Lakers would find a way to abuse Kornet in a series" viewpoint, because, well, that presume the Lakers' team construction is good enough to get to the Finals, and that -if- the solution is to get a big onto Davis that can also deter corner shooting for handling the Lakers, the -Lakers- are the team with the problem because there are playoff teams in the west that -can- do this before we ever have to worry about this.
 

chilidawg

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My conclusion was more "Man, the Lakers kept getting shorter guys onto AD. We need more size down there". Which, well, the Celtics figured out and devised ways to get him there. Blake's not mobile enough to handle the role Kornet is in.

In short, watching that video, I came away less with 'Lakers doing everything right' and more "We really miss Al and TimeLord, but Kornet will do in a pinch."
Spot on.
 

riboflav

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My two cents on the Kornet Hail Mary contest in three pointers I think is real (I think shooters are shooting 25% against it). Many of the shooters are not amazing shooters and it’s a small sample size but that all said these are also wide open shots. From my experience as a coach whenever we’d use a shooting machine it would have this tall net near the basket to “catch” the ball and I noted we shot much worse using the machine than we did without it. I tried it myself and I felt like I had to extra elevate the ball to get it over the net even though that wasn’t really the case. It was like an optical illusion but it definitely fucked with me and messed up how I would normally shoot the three.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Interestingly, LeBron did try to take advantage of the slow switch by just passing directly to Westbrook to enter it to AD. The problem is that Kornet was still near AD and could deny the entry.

The other counter is for Westbrook to get it quickly and shoot, but, well.....lol.

This strategy is specifically good when the other team is playing Russell Westbrook in crunchtime.
Right. The whole point of it was to increase coverage of AD and dare the Lakers' perimeter shooters to beat them. It wouldn't work against teams with perimiter shooting, but was great for the Lakers.
 

benhogan

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Right. The whole point of it was to increase coverage of AD and dare the Lakers' perimeter shooters to beat them. It wouldn't work against teams with perimiter shooting, but was great for the Lakers.
Bron team construction 101: surround him with 3pt shooting (esp. with AD)

It's kind of why Malik Monk saw a bump in minutes last year and why Lonnie Walker/Austin Reaves play so much this season

Shhh, keep it quiet in case Jeannie and Rob are perusing these pages.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Who knows if this is anything other than a trend but its cool regardless. Watch rim-obscuring become an actual measurable. Its already on its way.
 

bakahump

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I'll Say it. Kornet is good. Maybe decent good, as opposed to really good. But hes good.
 

chilidawg

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I think he's a better athlete than he gets credit for. He can move his feet to stay with drivers, he might get beat a bit but can recover and use his length. His reverse dunks show some decent body control. He's great a catching and finishing on the roll. As Hauser's star has faded Kornet has managed to be a very useful player.
 

Fishy1

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The rim deterrence he offers to this team is important when starting Rob and Al together. The second unit can be a little shrimpier for some regular season games if need be.
 

InstaFace

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The rim deterrence he offers to this team is important when starting Rob and Al together. The second unit can be a little shrimpier for some regular season games if need be.
We shouldn't over-index on how the team looks with Jaylen Brown out of action. When the second unit involves Grant, Brogdon, and one of the Jays, plus Kornet, it's got plenty of beef.
 

Kliq

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I think he's a better athlete than he gets credit for. He can move his feet to stay with drivers, he might get beat a bit but can recover and use his length. His reverse dunks show some decent body control. He's great a catching and finishing on the roll. As Hauser's star has faded Kornet has managed to be a very useful player.
I think he gets off the floor pretty good for a guy his height, which is partly why the Kornet Kontest is effective. It's funny to hear non-Celtics commentators act surprised when he throws down a dunk; like he's 7'2" and can jump a bit, of course he can throw down a lob.
 

TripleOT

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69.2/42.9/85% shooting for Kornet, a couple of makes from the rarified 70/40/90% club. He’s a very cerebral big, who would benefit by a little more aggressiveness. I often wonder if he ever gets mad.

Kornet is an acceptable third big, but I’m skeptical that he can succeed in important playoff minutes. He needs to continue to build on his success this season. I’m still hoping a more athletic, defensive oriented big like Nerlins Noel is available on the buyout market.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I have been very pleasantly surprised with Kornet and feel like he's sufficient as a third big, especially since Grant and even Tatum can play there against specific teams/matchups. The risk is primarily that TL (or Horford) gets hurt and Kornet will be exposed at 20 min a game, but he's servicable.

I do have a specific matchup concern, which is that i don't know that Kornet can really matchup at all with Embiid and that is a foreseeable matchup for Celtics where you'd want your third big to be able to give some minutes/fouls. We shouldn't dump him just for that reason, but Embiid is awfully big for Grant and TL and if Kornet can't matchup with him that creates a lot of pressure on Al and minutes where Embiid could beast.
 

joe dokes

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I think he's a better athlete than he gets credit for. He can move his feet to stay with drivers, he might get beat a bit but can recover and use his length. His reverse dunks show some decent body control. He's great a catching and finishing on the roll.
He knows how to use his length to avoid contact in tight spaces but still affect shots. In a game (and position) where everyone is "holy shit" tall, I think people underestimate the relative impact of being a legitimate 7'2".
 

bakahump

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The Embiid problem (in regards to Kornet) is real. But WHO is good matchup for him?

To say Kornet is "Limited" because he cant match up with Embiid is damning with (pretty much) Impossible Expectations.
 

the moops

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The Embiid problem (in regards to Kornet) is real. But WHO is good matchup for him?

To say Kornet is "Limited" because he cant match up with Embiid is damning with (pretty much) Impossible Expectations.
Embiid vs Poeltl the past 4 years. Embid had the following

14/25 40 points 13 rebounds +6

10/23 31 points, 12 rebounds, +26

16/32 38 points, 12 rebounds, +8

9/13 21 points, 14 rebounds, +13

9/17 27 points, 9 rebounds, -3
 

bakahump

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I would imagine thats probably top 50% against Embiid and he still lit him up pretty good.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Embiid vs Poeltl the past 4 years. Embid had the following

14/25 40 points 13 rebounds +6

10/23 31 points, 12 rebounds, +26

16/32 38 points, 12 rebounds, +8

9/13 21 points, 14 rebounds, +13

9/17 27 points, 9 rebounds, -3
The Spurs were (in aggregate) also one of the 8 worst defensive teams in the league over those four years, so Embiid averaging 32 a game doesn't tell us a lot, does it? Over the last three years Embiid has averaged 31 a game overall. No one has argued --- or I expect would - that Poeltl is an Embiid stopper.

I would argue (and you are free to disagree) that Poeltl is a lot more likely to give 15-20 good defensive minutes in a playoff game than Kornet is. So even if he just plays Embiid "league average" (which is more or less what those show), that's still to me a big upgrade on Kornet. That's the case to care about it.
 

lovegtm

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Kornet really keeps looking playable. I don't see another guy out there who could bump him, and I'm guessing the Celtics like his basically free contract next year, along with the opportunity to keep him after as a long-term backup through his prime years.

Honestly like him better than prime Theis in a lot of ways, and prime Theis was quite a solid player.
 

TripleOT

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I was a big Kornet doubter, and am very impressed with his play. He is much better at using his height and length to impact the game at both ends, which makes up for poor lower body physicality. He is much better setting picks, and in the pick and dive game. It looks like his teammates’ belief in him has resulted in him playing with a lot more confidence.
 

lovegtm

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I was a big Kornet doubter, and am very impressed with his play. He is much better using his height and length to make up for poor lower body physicality, and is much better in the pick and dive game. It looks like his teammate’ belief in him has resulted in him playing with a lot more confidence.
People forget that he played as a stretch big his first few years in the league, and has had to completely re-engineer his game to move it closer to the basket on both ends.
 

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I don't get to watch as much Celtics as I would like, but every time I see Kornet run the court, he strikes me as far more athletic than my mind's eye sees him. He looks more comfortable and faster running than other gawky, super-tall players. He's no TimeLord, but he also looks far more athletic than Tacko.
 

Koufax

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While not particularly relevant to his value as a player, I like the fact that he clearly has fun out there on the court. It beats watching a sourpuss.
 

Fishy1

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While not particularly relevant to his value as a player, I like the fact that he clearly has fun out there on the court. It beats watching a sourpuss.
Totally. This was a guy who was effectively out of the league until the Celtics basically said to him "go to the G league, rework your game, show us you're ready to play in the NBA again, and we'll make good..." and he actually did it, and now he's out there blocking Joel Embiid. I think he's just happy to have survived as an NBA player.

I thought the Celtics looked markedly better on defense and offense with him out there last night (not withstanding Embiid simply allowing Blake Griffin to shoot as many wide open threes as he wanted), and I think they look better with him at the five than with Horford there on defense, at least, a lot of the time. He's a total steal. Meanwhile, Dedmon keeps getting make-good contracts and disappointing teams.
 

benhogan

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Kornet really keeps looking playable. I don't see another guy out there who could bump him, and I'm guessing the Celtics like his basically free contract next year, along with the opportunity to keep him after as a long-term backup through his prime years.

Honestly like him better than prime Theis in a lot of ways, and prime Theis was quite a solid player.
Yea I think that Theis comp is fair.

This may sound weird for a 27-yr old BIG, but Kornet may have more upside. Late bloomer.
A BIG that can play post against bulky 5s, while being able to hit FTs & shooting from the Corner3 is a valuable bench/rotation player.

Brad's ability to uncover Luke/Hauser dovetails nicely with his exceptional use of late 1sts
 

benhogan

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I thought the Celtics looked markedly better on defense and offense with him out there last night (not withstanding Embiid simply allowing Blake Griffin to shoot as many wide open threes as he wanted), and I think they look better with him at the five than with Horford there on defense, at least, a lot of the time. He's a total steal. Meanwhile, Dedmon keeps getting make-good contracts and disappointing teams.
This is a bold statement and I 100% agree with it.
 

Fishy1

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This is a bold statement and I 100% agree with it.
Thanks lol. I love Horford -- he offers you the three-point shooting, and a little bit of rim protection, but a lot of the time, at this point in his career, he's no more switchable than Luke is and he's certainly not better at blocking shots or rim deterrence.
 

benhogan

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Thanks lol. I love Horford -- he offers you the three-point shooting, and a little bit of rim protection, but a lot of the time, at this point in his career, he's no more switchable than Luke is and he's certainly not better at blocking shots or rim deterrence.
I love Al also. Horford is a very good 4.

No reason to put more wear-n-tear on Horford by making him battle BIGs down low.
Watching Al swatting WINGs at the rim after they thought they blew by him is enjoyable
 

lovegtm

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I love Al also. Horford is a very good 4.

No reason to put more wear-n-tear on Horford by making him battle BIGs down low.
Watching Al swatting WINGs at the rim after they thought they blew by him is enjoyable
Horford should be thought of as a (younger!) rich man's PJ Tucker at this point in his career.
 

benhogan

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Horford should be thought of as a (younger!) rich man's PJ Tucker at this point in his career.
Al/Grant await the Giannis freight train. It's an extremely important role. Need to handle Horford with care during the regular season to have him ready for the eventual Milwaukee battle.
 

joe dokes

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Yea I think that Theis comp is fair.

This may sound weird for a 27-yr old BIG, but Kornet may have more upside. Late bloomer.
A BIG that can play post against bulky 5s, while being able to hit FTs & shooting from the Corner3 is a valuable bench/rotation player.

Brad's ability to uncover Luke/Hauser dovetails nicely with his exceptional use of late 1sts
Kornet is also SIX inches taller than Theis.
 

InstaFace

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I agree that the defense last night was the best part of the game - we sustained it for 4 quarters, just about every possession, and there were no long stretches of absentmindedness, failed gambles or any other nonsense. Kornet was a big part of that.

But I noticed that when Embiid was on the floor, Grant Williams was usually the primary defender on him (sometimes Griffin), and Kornet was guarding the 4 and only coming in to help on rebounds and such. The block on Embiid was awesome, but Kornet was not assigned to try to keep Embiid out of the paint - and a damn good thing. What makes him look athletic at 7'2", moving fluidly, is his lack of bulk - he simply doesn't weigh what a lot of other players his height weigh, so he can move more on one or two steps. But that also means that Embiid would flatten him like Wile E Coyote.

On the other hand, when Embiid sat and it was Harrell was out there at C, Kornet covered him, and basically stunted on him. Was in position for some good rebounds, out-maneuvered him on both ends of the floor, made some great passes. It's clear that Mazzulla understands the situations that Kornet is good at, and doesn't ask him to do things he can't do (no matter what his height is). There are a lot of teams against whom he can very adequately spell TimeLord even in the playoffs and if he can put forward the effort we saw last night, he will be a big positive out there. And for the handful of players in the league who are just too much of a load for him to cover in the post, we clearly have a plan.
 

Fishy1

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I agree that the defense last night was the best part of the game - we sustained it for 4 quarters, just about every possession, and there were no long stretches of absentmindedness, failed gambles or any other nonsense. Kornet was a big part of that.

But I noticed that when Embiid was on the floor, Grant Williams was usually the primary defender on him (sometimes Griffin), and Kornet was guarding the 4 and only coming in to help on rebounds and such. The block on Embiid was awesome, but Kornet was not assigned to try to keep Embiid out of the paint - and a damn good thing. What makes him look athletic at 7'2", moving fluidly, is his lack of bulk - he simply doesn't weigh what a lot of other players his height weigh, so he can move more on one or two steps. But that also means that Embiid would flatten him like Wile E Coyote.

On the other hand, when Embiid sat and it was Harrell was out there at C, Kornet covered him, and basically stunted on him. Was in position for some good rebounds, out-maneuvered him on both ends of the floor, made some great passes. It's clear that Mazzulla understands the situations that Kornet is good at, and doesn't ask him to do things he can't do (no matter what his height is). There are a lot of teams for which he can very adequately spell TimeLord even in the playoffs and if he can put forward the effort we saw last night, he will be a big positive out there. And for the handful of players in the league who are just too much of a load for him to cover in the post, we clearly have a plan.
This is nicely observed, and I'd add there's good defensive reasoning. They have him on the Rob defensive diet: rather than putting him on the biggest big, put him on the weakside shooter so he can cover the paint and do the Kornet contest if the ball is kicked to the corner. That way Embiid has to go through Grant (a pain in the ass) only to find Kornet waiting for him.
 

InstaFace

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Yeah it's kinda funny to see Grant Williams listed as a Center, when he's 6'6", but then you see him out there like a rock with Joel fuckin' Embiid largely unable to back him down and you realize that's pretty much why he's on this team. Could Al Horford do that if he absolutely had to? Yes, I still believe so. Would Al sustain that for a playoff series at his age? Definitely don't want to find out.

The one criticism I'll make of Kornet is that he gets dummied for fouls too easily within 5-10' of the basket, leaving his hands out so the player can go up through him to draw a semi-bullshit call. If he keeps arms back more, only goes up with them, he probably gets more blocks and fewer fouls called on him. No, he's not going to be able to keep up with James Harden's footwork, but I think it's fair to ask him to play smarter in that way, as that's clearly part of how Philly was targeting him. Didn't he give up an And-1?
 

Fishy1

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Yeah it's kinda funny to see Grant Williams listed as a Center, when he's 6'6", but then you see him out there like a rock with Joel fuckin' Embiid largely unable to back him down and you realize that's pretty much why he's on this team. Could Al Horford do that if he absolutely had to? Yes, I still believe so. Would Al sustain that for a playoff series at his age? Definitely don't want to find out.

The one criticism I'll make of Kornet is that he gets dummied for fouls too easily within 5-10' of the basket, leaving his hands out so the player can go up through him to draw a semi-bullshit call. If he keeps arms back more, only goes up with them, he probably gets more blocks and fewer fouls called on him. No, he's not going to be able to keep up with James Harden's footwork, but I think it's fair to ask him to play smarter in that way, as that's clearly part of how Philly was targeting him. Didn't he give up an And-1?
He's generally good at not fouling, but yes, he does a reasonable Theis impression sometimes. ;) Iirc Theis really struggled to stay vertical. Just could not help himself.
 

InstaFace

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Who's the best on the Celtics at not fouling in situations where the opponent is trying to draw a foul? 1. White 2. Tatum 3. Uhhhhh ????

I feel like it's an easy skill to overlook, because it's the dog that didn't bark. You notice it more playing against a James Harden, but it crops up a few times a game anywhere.