The Warriors come out to play
- Thread starter nattysez
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I honestly have no idea how the Warriors won tonight, but they did. Klay T looked awful at both ends.
Three words. Steph Fucking Curry
Three words. Steph Fucking Curry
Monta missed a big free throw late and a tough lay in before the final possession; meanwhile, his ex partner in crime knocks down the big shot.
+ Draymond Fucking Green. Sparked the whole thing by setting the defensive tone in the second half. Dude was our best defender on Dirk AND Monta. Let that sink in. Lee cannot defend either of them.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
The starting lineup when Iguodala gets back should be Curry-Klay-Iguodala-Green-Bogut, but I doubt Jackson has the balls to do it. (Lacob and Lee are apparently BFFs.)
But yeah, Curry. Who was it in here that kept insisting he wasn't a star?
I was at Oracle tonight and to a man not named Curry, Green or Barnes, the Warriors looked like complete crap. The Mavs seemed to suck the air out of the arena with their Calderon-ball but in the second half, Green wreaked havoc on their offensive planning (as Jackson said post-game, the guy can guard the one through five - and he fucking did that) while Curry carried the load. Tonight marked Steph Curry's first game-winning shot since high school.
Green may well be one of the most underrated NBA players in the league. Curry is another story. I don't know where he ranks in the current "Top whatever" but the guy is one of the most fun players to watch play NBA basketball in the Association today. Tonight he took another leap.
Green may well be one of the most underrated NBA players in the league. Curry is another story. I don't know where he ranks in the current "Top whatever" but the guy is one of the most fun players to watch play NBA basketball in the Association today. Tonight he took another leap.
I was spazzing about Curry tonight on Twitter--I asked (rhetorically) "who's a rich man's Steph Curry" and Matt Moore suggested "Larry Bird". I had no comeback because that's not unfair. He's got Gumby rim attacks, has figured out how to do the warp-space-and-time passing that has us all over Rondo, and, oh yeah, it's literally never a bad shot for him to chuck a three. And he does it being like three feet tall.
Pray for his ankle, for as long as that holds we're watching some special stuff.
Pray for his ankle, for as long as that holds we're watching some special stuff.
This Golden State team really is a ton of fun to watch. I just picked up some tickets for when they come through Brooklyn next month, and may try and may try and catch them at the Garden in February, too. Barclay's is 50% of the cost though, so we'll see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwwY9y6O3hw
Split off from the December game thread...
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It's good to have some of the unusual suspects reaching for breakout seasons. Indiana, Portland and Golden State are exciting teams to watch.
Split off from the December game thread...
***
It's good to have some of the unusual suspects reaching for breakout seasons. Indiana, Portland and Golden State are exciting teams to watch.
Golden State is a flawed team. Their bench is extremely thin after Draymond Green (and Barnes when Iguodala comes back). Injuries have killed them and predictably, Jermaine O'Neal is now out with torn ligaments in his wrist and its unclear whether he will even return this season.Sprowl said:
I think they are going to have to offer up one of Barnes or Thompson (and my preference is strongly in favor of trading the latter) to get some combo of another four/five and a bench scorer/ball-handler. Until or unless they make a move like this, they just aren't a serious contender.
Well...define "serious contender". I think this lineup could get out of the West if things break their way. I don't think they could beat the Heat, but they might be able to beat Indiana. I do agree that trading Thompson is what they'll probably explore (and should), but I just think you're a little more down on them than is warranted.
They're a good squad right. Potential to be VERY good. They need to learn how to WIN games. 2:40 left.
Sadly, they lose pretty well, too. This team should be top 4 in the west, talent wise.
They haven't figured out how to do so.
They haven't figured out how to do so.
I think the clippers are overrated because people can't see how atrocious their defense is on their stats.
Perhaps they can improve on that.
Perhaps they can improve on that.
Blacken said:
Houston has beaten them twice thus far. I don't think Golden State could beat Houston in a playoff series.
I still maintain that this team needs another big and possibly another bench scorer/guard. O'Neal is gone for a while and who knows what he'll be capable of when he gets back - he is 35 years old and fragile outside of his wrist injury. Mareese Speights, despite his fool's gold performance on Friday night, is not the answer. He does nothing well and does a lot of things very poorly.
Again, if they want to take advantage of this current roster and take a shot at the finals, they are going to have to explore moving one of Barnes or Thompson. I suspect its now obvious that Barnes would garner more interest than Thompson because he can do more. Thompson is still a very good player although I think this will probably be the height of his value. He is a pure jump-shooter who can play above average defense. The guy, however, has trouble creating his own shot and cannot finish at the rim.
The question is, who do they target?
Again, if they want to take advantage of this current roster and take a shot at the finals, they are going to have to explore moving one of Barnes or Thompson. I suspect its now obvious that Barnes would garner more interest than Thompson because he can do more. Thompson is still a very good player although I think this will probably be the height of his value. He is a pure jump-shooter who can play above average defense. The guy, however, has trouble creating his own shot and cannot finish at the rim.
The question is, who do they target?
QFT.jon abbey said:
Now 9-2 with both Iguodala and Curry in the lineup, most of the wins laughers.
The Curry-Thompson-Iguodala-Lee-Bogut synergy is strong. (Bench is still vomiting away big leads, but I trust Bob Myers to find reinforcements).
Stephen Curry is currently averaging 24.3 pts on .603 ts% and 9.0 assists.
Players who have put up better than 24/9/.600 in NBA History
1. Stephen Curry, 2013-14
Players who have done it if you reduce the assist requirement to 8.0
1. Michael Jordan, 1988-89
2. LeBron James, 2009-10
3. Stephen Curry, 2013-14
Players who have done it if you reduce the point requirement to 23.0 and the assist requirement to 8.0
1. Michael Jordan, 1988-89
2. LeBron James, 2009-10
3. Magic Johnson, 1986-87
4. Stephen Curry, 2013-14
Players who have put up better than 24/9/.600 in NBA History
1. Stephen Curry, 2013-14
Players who have done it if you reduce the assist requirement to 8.0
1. Michael Jordan, 1988-89
2. LeBron James, 2009-10
3. Stephen Curry, 2013-14
Players who have done it if you reduce the point requirement to 23.0 and the assist requirement to 8.0
1. Michael Jordan, 1988-89
2. LeBron James, 2009-10
3. Magic Johnson, 1986-87
4. Stephen Curry, 2013-14
Sam Ray Not said:
I think you need to loosen those requirements a little bit.
A more general picture of players with Curry's profile might include guys like Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, Derrick Rose, and Isaiah Thomas, plus old schoolers like Jerry West.
Still pretty damn good company.
A healthy GS team losing at home to the Spurs w/o Duncan/Parker/Ginobili, that's a bad loss. It's going to be fascinating to see who ends up missing the playoffs in the West, especially if Dallas and Phoenix somehow manage to keep it up.
Golden State lacks interior toughness. Bogut is fine but cannot score which is acceptable. Lee is a good scorer and rebounds well but cannot defend at all. Mareese Speights won't be in the league after his current contract is up. If Jermaine O'Neal is healthy, which hasn't been the case since before the internet was invented, they may have won this game.
If Golden State wants to get to the next level, they are going to have to make a change. Losing this game to a solid second unit from best team in the West isn't fatal. But its a game that true aspirants to the throne would have won. And true aspirants address their deficiencies when they get the chance. I expect Bob Myers to do something meaningful before the deadline.
If Golden State wants to get to the next level, they are going to have to make a change. Losing this game to a solid second unit from best team in the West isn't fatal. But its a game that true aspirants to the throne would have won. And true aspirants address their deficiencies when they get the chance. I expect Bob Myers to do something meaningful before the deadline.
I watched the last quarter. I don't think it had much to do with toughness. GS is a group of very talented individuals. The Spurs are a team.
I don't know what has happened to Klay Thompson. His shooting touch has been off and he continues to disappear for long stretches.
Their biggest issue, though, is turnovers. They just give the ball away way too much. They could use a back-up pg who can handle the ball - they really miss Jarrett Jack.
Their biggest issue, though, is turnovers. They just give the ball away way too much. They could use a back-up pg who can handle the ball - they really miss Jarrett Jack.
I don't know what has happened to Klay Thompson. His shooting touch has been off and he continues to disappear for long stretches.
Their biggest issue, though, is turnovers. They just give the ball away way too much. They could use a back-up pg who can handle the ball - they really miss Jarrett Jack.
I agree about Thompson - he is a sometimes fantastic shooter but he tends to disappear for stretches. Furthermore, his struggles on offense often translate to turnovers and poor defense.
I disagree about Jack though. He was definitely useful last year but he tended to get in trouble by over - dribbling. Iguodala does everything Jack did, only he does it more efficiently.
They need more help upfront. Bois Diaw is no slouch but there is no way he should be as dominant as he was during the fourth last night.
Their biggest issue, though, is turnovers. They just give the ball away way too much. They could use a back-up pg who can handle the ball - they really miss Jarrett Jack.
I agree about Thompson - he is a sometimes fantastic shooter but he tends to disappear for stretches. Furthermore, his struggles on offense often translate to turnovers and poor defense.
I disagree about Jack though. He was definitely useful last year but he tended to get in trouble by over - dribbling. Iguodala does everything Jack did, only he does it more efficiently.
They need more help upfront. Bois Diaw is no slouch but there is no way he should be as dominant as he was during the fourth last night.
Two observations and then I will stop posting in this forum for a while.
First, I know he isn't the best player in the NBA and I know some folks even think he isn't a top ten player. That said, watching Steph Curry play basketball is a akin to watching Pedro pitch at his peak. I know that sounds crazy because Pedro was clearly more dominant as a player however the similarity is that with each guy, you have the chance to watch something special every time they suit up to play. For me, Curry is that good.
And also, if we ever had a thread titled "Most Underrated NBA Players" my entry would start and end with Draymond Green. SamRayNot has covered this here before but the guy is a defensive nightmare for opposing teams because he can guard the one through five. He frustrated Blake Griffin to no end on Christmas Day (before the ejection) and dogged LeBron last night. He is an active defender who often creates turnovers by jarring balls loose on the dribble and he is very good at changing opponents shots, especially near the rim. He is also the guy on Golden State who does the dirty work when it needs to be done - he is not afraid to mix it up with the opposing team's "goon" if need be. However nobody will hear about him because he plays only 20 minutes a night and shoots 39% from the field (though he does shoot 35% from three point range). But make no mistake, he has had a big hand in the Warriors recent run and if they hope to do anything come playoff time, he will be a key contributor. Watching him, Iguodala, Bogut and, lesser degrees, Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes play defense is a joy for those of us who enjoy that part of the NBA.
First, I know he isn't the best player in the NBA and I know some folks even think he isn't a top ten player. That said, watching Steph Curry play basketball is a akin to watching Pedro pitch at his peak. I know that sounds crazy because Pedro was clearly more dominant as a player however the similarity is that with each guy, you have the chance to watch something special every time they suit up to play. For me, Curry is that good.
And also, if we ever had a thread titled "Most Underrated NBA Players" my entry would start and end with Draymond Green. SamRayNot has covered this here before but the guy is a defensive nightmare for opposing teams because he can guard the one through five. He frustrated Blake Griffin to no end on Christmas Day (before the ejection) and dogged LeBron last night. He is an active defender who often creates turnovers by jarring balls loose on the dribble and he is very good at changing opponents shots, especially near the rim. He is also the guy on Golden State who does the dirty work when it needs to be done - he is not afraid to mix it up with the opposing team's "goon" if need be. However nobody will hear about him because he plays only 20 minutes a night and shoots 39% from the field (though he does shoot 35% from three point range). But make no mistake, he has had a big hand in the Warriors recent run and if they hope to do anything come playoff time, he will be a key contributor. Watching him, Iguodala, Bogut and, lesser degrees, Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes play defense is a joy for those of us who enjoy that part of the NBA.
I figure I will just post this here where you all know what you are getting...
Dubs win 101-80 tonight over the Bucks in Milwaukee behind NBA player of the week David Lee's 22 points (10-12 from the field) and 18 boards. Warriors have now won ten straight and are 19-3 with Bogut, Curry, Iguodala, Thompson and Lee all playing (as well as Barnes and Green off the bench). They also have a shot at an NBA record of a 7-0 road trip if they can win in BKNY tomorrow night - no team has ever gone 7-0 before on the road in the Association which is kind of amazing given the number of dynasty-level teams the league has seen.
I think Golden State's streak comes to an end given that Brooklyn seems to have righted things and playing back to backs on the end of a long road-trip are pretty damn tough regardless of the competition. That said, tomorrow night should be fun and I would be a fool to fade this team after what they have done over the past two plus weeks.
Dubs win 101-80 tonight over the Bucks in Milwaukee behind NBA player of the week David Lee's 22 points (10-12 from the field) and 18 boards. Warriors have now won ten straight and are 19-3 with Bogut, Curry, Iguodala, Thompson and Lee all playing (as well as Barnes and Green off the bench). They also have a shot at an NBA record of a 7-0 road trip if they can win in BKNY tomorrow night - no team has ever gone 7-0 before on the road in the Association which is kind of amazing given the number of dynasty-level teams the league has seen.
I think Golden State's streak comes to an end given that Brooklyn seems to have righted things and playing back to backs on the end of a long road-trip are pretty damn tough regardless of the competition. That said, tomorrow night should be fun and I would be a fool to fade this team after what they have done over the past two plus weeks.
David Lee is just playing phenomenal basketball right now. Tonight was just another gem, 22pts on 10 of 12 shooting and 18 rebounds. His abilty to post-up, jump shoot and pass from the top of the key really opens up GS's offensive game, and he is the biggest reason why this team is firing on all cylinders.
I never see the Warriors and I am only a casual NBA fan, but I remember Lee from his time with the Knicks, and he wasn't very good defensively (some said he was awful). Has he improved, or are the Ws just scoring too many points for it to matter?
He's been an absolute beast, though in terms of credit for their recent stretch of dominance, I'd put him 1A/1B with a fully healthy Bogut, who's also playing the best ball of his career: 10.7 pts on 62.5% FG, 13.7 boards, 2.2 assists, 2.3 blocks per 36 minutes. The two of them have been consistently **owning** other teams' front courts inside. They had a stretch of ten straight games where they both racked up double-digit boards — first time that had happened since Barkley/Moses in '86. They may also be the passing big man tandem in the league, which is a beautiful thing when you have Curry, Klay, Iguodala and Barnes roaming the perimeter.Kliq said:
Meanwhile, Iguodala, even while still recovering from the hammy pull, is quietly having possibly the best season of his career — putting up a career-best .649 true shooting percentage (with defenses hyper-focused on the Splash Brothers) to go with his typically stellar passing/playmaking (5.4 assists / 2.3 gov per 36) and arguably the best perimeter defense in the league. Last night was the quintessential Iguodala masterpiece: 11 points **on three field goal attempts**, 7 boards, 5 assists, zero turnovers.
Ws wax the Bucks by 20 points with Curry, Klay, Barnes and Green clanging a collective 15 of 48 from the floor. That's how well constructed the core of this team is. They may have the best defense in the Western Conference (notwithstanding Bill Simmons' recent comment that they "can't stop anyone" -- did he bang his head and wake up in 2011?). The biggest issue remains the bench after the #6-7 of Barnes/Green, but I suspect as the trade deadline approaches and teams start officially tanking, dumping salary, etc., a reinforcement or two may be on the way (Kirk Hinrich or Andre Miller, e.g.?) Come February or March they may get a healthy Ezeli and Jermaine O'Neal as well. Fingers crossed that Bogut/Lee can stay healthy till then, and that Curry can somehow avoid the injury plague that has felled Rose, Kobe, Westbrook, CP3, Deron et al.
Going to the game at Barclay's tonight. I'm little worried about exhaustion at the end of a long trip, and a long flight in from frozen Milwaukee early this morning, but hopefully they have enough left in tank to close out a perfect 7-0 road trip. Lopez and Deron are both out, which should help their cause.
The presence of the Bogut-asaurus definitely makes him look a whole lot better. He's not a good rim/help defender, and he can struggle against stretch 4s like Frye and Ryan Anderson, but he moves his feet pretty well, puts in good effort, and generally holds his own against traditional 4s (Griffin, ZBo, Jefferson, David West et al.) With Bogut there to defend the rim, and/or occasionally cross-match against guys like Griffin when they get it going, he's at worst a small liability defensively.OilCanShotTupac said:
Notwithstanding the general take that his D is awful, RAPM kinda likes his defense (+1.1) and the team has been marginally better defensively this year with him on court than off (-1.2 points per 100 possessions).
Edit to add a cute gif of Bogut cuddling with Blake Griffin from the latest Ws/Clippers showdown a couple weeks ago. Bogut is a lot bigger, longer and tougher than Blake, and makes his life very difficult when cross-matched on him. This is the type of stuff that makes you realize this isn't your mother's Warriors.
And so the 10 game winning streak ends. Warriors finish their longest road-trip at 6-1, with just one win shy of an NBA record. Still, losing to a now "resurgent" Nets club 101-98 on the back-end of a back-to-back at the end of their journey is nothing to hang their heads at.
As SRN notes, Golden State is likely to fortify their thin bench by picking up a retread or two as well as getting Ezeli and O'Neal back over the next few weeks. This should really help what has been a mediocre, at best, second unit. I don't know where the Warriors will wind up but this past 10 games surely has to be giving some of their detractors something else to think about.
As SRN notes, Golden State is likely to fortify their thin bench by picking up a retread or two as well as getting Ezeli and O'Neal back over the next few weeks. This should really help what has been a mediocre, at best, second unit. I don't know where the Warriors will wind up but this past 10 games surely has to be giving some of their detractors something else to think about.
Zach Lowe wrote about them today: http://grantland.com/features/why-not-the-warriors/
Interesting note: The Warriors have a really sketchy offense. They are just 13th in points per possesion, and post up way too much for what they are getting on post-ups according to Synergy Sports. Also, for a team with great passing, only the Knicks finish more possesions off in isolation plays. They also struggle to finish against good defensive possesions. Iggy and Thompson are really bad in isolations, with Iggy going 18-54 in isos and Thompson going 16-54.
Interesting note: The Warriors have a really sketchy offense. They are just 13th in points per possesion, and post up way too much for what they are getting on post-ups according to Synergy Sports. Also, for a team with great passing, only the Knicks finish more possesions off in isolation plays. They also struggle to finish against good defensive possesions. Iggy and Thompson are really bad in isolations, with Iggy going 18-54 in isos and Thompson going 16-54.
Kliq said:
Just a correction - Lowe notes that its Thompson who is 18-54 in ISOs and Barnes who is 16-54. Not Iguodala - there are very few Iguodala ISOs in any Warriors game. Lee is about the Warriors best player on an ISO based on my eyes and even he has struggled mightily at times.
That said, they seem to be calling less ISOs of late.
I have said this often in this forum - as much as people around the NBA love Klay Thompson for his shooting and defense, his play can be downright ugly when he is asked to finish plays near the basket. If I were drawing up a defense of a Thompson ISO, I would let his man cover him one on one, I would body up the bigs and pull any other help toward Curry. More often than not, Thompson will end up forcing some poor shot. Even without covering Curry or Iguodala/Barnes/Green he often keeps it rather than kicking it out. Quite simply, he is a good but streaky outside shooter who can play some D but will disappear for long, painful stretches.
Jordan Crawford was the only reason to watch the Celtics and now he's like reason #7 to watch the Warriors.
The Warriors are turbofucking the Clippers. With 6:00 left in the 2nd, the points-in-the-paint is 34 to 6 and I think the entire population of Oakland has thrown down a dunk.
The Warriors are turbofucking the Clippers. With 6:00 left in the 2nd, the points-in-the-paint is 34 to 6 and I think the entire population of Oakland has thrown down a dunk.
Tonight against the Bulls was a travishamockery. The Bulls decided to triple team Curry whenever possible and the Warriors were completely unprepared for it. Meanwhile, I don't recall Mark Jackson calling a single time out while the Bulls were boatracing the Warriors in the third quarter.
See you later, Mark. You did a nice job fixing the culture, but now the team needs a coach who knows how to make adjustments (both before the game and during). And it wouldn't hurt to get along with your assistants.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/warriors-coach-mark-jackson-forces-reassignment-of-assistant-brian-scalabrine-184142899.html
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/warriors-coach-mark-jackson-forces-reassignment-of-assistant-brian-scalabrine-184142899.html