The Warriors come out to play

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Am I crazy for thinking that is a ton of money and committment for a guy who has never coached?

 
Not at all. By all accounts, Kerr is a really great guy and comes from an extremely interesting background (if you've never heard about the story about his Dad's death, do some googling) but this seems like an instance where his value has been inflated a bit. I'm disappointed he didn't go to New York, but there was no guarantee he'd have been successful there. Or anywhere else, really. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Am I crazy for thinking that is a ton of money and committment for a guy who has never coached?

For Golden State to get their guy they needed to go the 5th year which is what NY was not willing to do. It's essentially an MLE contract similar to what a key reserve would be paid which is the high end of the coach-only position in the NBA. Kerr certainly maximized his value here with Phil's presence in NY......timing is everything.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Am I crazy for thinking that is a ton of money and committment for a guy who has never coached?

No.  I don't understand how he became the most sought after coach this offseason.  
 
Not saying he won't succeed, but I don't understand why multiple teams are lining up to pay top dollar for the right to find out.  

 

[HomeRunBaker]

No.  I don't understand how he became the most sought after coach this offseason.  
 
Not saying he won't succeed, but I don't understand why multiple teams are lining up to pay top dollar for the right to find out.  

It is very simple. The era of the veteran retread coach is over with the focus of the new-age GM on embracing analytics which the older NBA (and MLB) coaches tend to fight. A younger GM is naturally going to gravitate to hiring a younger head coach and most of the qualities they are looking for is found in the ex-PG who are typically going to be those with the best leadership and communication skills.

Jackson, Kidd, Kerr, Stockton in Utah (any day now) and possibly Derek Fisher in NY......this is the trend as the shift goes away from the retreads.

 

[The Social Chair]

Stan Van Gundy was the most sought after coach, but he wanted control over basketball operations. This is a very risky pick. Jackson's problem was X&Os and rotations, and they replaced him with a guy who has never coached.

 

[Tony C]

The Kerr as underqualified/never coached meme seems overplayed. Kerr had a long career as a player, has been a GM/head of operations, and a TV analyst (which I only mention since it seems relevant to how guys get hired). No, he hasn't coached...but tons of guys get hired w/out that background -- even listening to him on TV he's head and shoulders above others and don't doubt his x and o capabilities or, in any case, experienced coaches can be hired as assistants. I agree with HRB's point in re Kerr that it's about the age of analytics and Kerr is the guy who has both that expertise as well as the old/pro insider legitimacy that can help sell that to a team (though I'm not sure that's the case with the other younger guys HRB mentions -- certainly not for Jackson, no idea on Stockton and Fisher). The other thing about Kerr is with his experience in management and as a player should allow him to communicate at both ends in a way Jackson couldn't.
 
That said, with the reported player love for Jackson, Kerr will have a job winning the locker room.

 

[jon abbey]

He is going to have to overcome some race issues also, nice piece by Ric Bucher here:
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2065541-steve-kerr-faces-challenge-to-win-over-players-upset-over-mark-jacksons-firing

 

[radsoxfan]

He is going to have to overcome some race issues also, nice piece by Ric Bucher here:
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2065541-steve-kerr-faces-challenge-to-win-over-players-upset-over-mark-jacksons-firing

 
 
I know Bucher is just quoting an anonymous player, but those comments are really absurd.  Players are going to play the race card with Kerr?  White owner and a white coach.... give me a break.  If some of the players are upset about that combo, they are insane.
 
 
Here is a piece I thought was good over at ESPN New York.  Not sure if this was posted over there because they expected him to be the Knicks new coach.  But as GMB mentioned above, Kerr has a very interesting life story.  I grew up in the same town as Kerr did many years after he had already left, and vaguely knew about his story, but admit I didn't know the details. Crazy stuff.
 
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10895607/golden-state-warriors-steve-kerr-tough-enough-nba-coaching

 

[jon abbey]

 
 
I know Bucher is just quoting an anonymous player, but those comments are really absurd.  Players are going to play the race card with Kerr?  White owner and a white coach.... give me a break.  If some of the players are upset about that combo, they are insane.
 

 
Obviously it's not just that, it's that the white owner is grooming his son to be the next GM, and the black coach who the players allegedly mostly loved was just fired without much public explanation despite probably overachieving collectively over the last two seasons (the Denver team they beat last year in the first round went 39-9 to close the regular season, and had won 24 in a row at home before GS beat them in game 2). It's far from a normal situation. 

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Obviously it's not just that, it's that the white owner is grooming his son to be the next GM, and the black coach who the players allegedly mostly loved was just fired without much public explanation despite probably overachieving collectively over the last two seasons (the Denver team they beat last year in the first round went 39-9 to close the regular season, and had won 24 in a row at home before GS beat them in game 2). It's far from a normal situation. 

 
I honestly don't see how it's such an abnormal situation. 
 
Owners are white in the NBA, and their sons are white.  They often want their sons involved in the business. I see zero reason why that is a factor at all, unless Lacob has made some Sterling-type comments I don't know about or something.
 
As to Jackson, his players like him, I understand that.  But just because a black coach the players like gets fired, and a while coach gets hired, I still don't see how the race card is an issue.  Jackson is a black ex-player with no head coaching experience Lacob gave the job to.  Kerr is a white ex-player with no head coaching experience Lacob gave the job to. It could have just as easily happened in the reverse direction if Kerr was hired first and didn't get along with management.
 
In a broader sense, the NBA should still be working to make sure black coaches are getting a fair shot at jobs just like white coaches.  But pointing to this situation and turning it into a race one seems like grasping at straws to me.  

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Stan Van Gundy was the most sought after coach, but he wanted control over basketball operations. This is a very risky pick. Jackson's problem was X&Os and rotations, and they replaced him with a guy who has never coached.

Jackson's problem was his own ego, control issues, poor communications with his superiors and "possibly" lack of respect to his superiors which caused them to revolt against him. I say "possibly" because we don't know the true story however it certainly appears to be the case.

If this is known within the NBA circles good luck to him getting another gig......signing his new multi-year broadcasting deal was a wise move.

 

[Devizier]

 
As to Jackson, his players like him, I understand that.  But just because a black coach the players like gets fired, and a while coach gets hired, I still don't see how the race card is an issue.  Jackson is a black ex-player with no head coaching experience Lacob gave the job to.  Kerr is a white ex-player with no head coaching experience Lacob gave the job to. It could have just as easily happened in the reverse direction if Kerr was hired first and didn't get along with management.
 
In a broader sense, the NBA should still be working to make sure black coaches are getting a fair shot at jobs just like white coaches.  But pointing to this situation and turning it into a race one seems like grasping at straws to me.  

 
Not to venture too far off topic, but I hate this term, because it implies that grievances about racial prejudice are illegitimate.
 
That said, I haven't witnessed any evidence that indicates swapping Jackson for Kerr was racially motivated. That doesn't mean that it isn't true, although I tende to give people the benefit of the doubt in these decisions. In any even, this kind of stuff is exceedingly dififcult to demonstrate. Very few examples of racial bias are so obvious as Sterling's.

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Not to venture too far off topic, but I hate this term, because it implies that grievances about racial prejudice are illegitimate.
 

 
 
I'm saying the evidence we have in this case makes the racial prejudice grievance appear illegitimate.
 
I suppose the term "race card" might imply some level of illegitimacy, but to me it depends on the context it is used. Sometimes grievances are legit, and sometimes they aren't.  Using the term "race card" doesn't imply all grievances are illegitimate. 
 
But OK, if it sounds more even handed, just replace "the race card" with "race".

 

[jon abbey]

I don't really see why you're arguing, there's no 'grievance' here exactly, but these kind of issues are in the forefront of everyone in the NBA's mind right now after the Sterling thing blew up. It's just a fact, sorry if you don't like that. 
 
I don't think that means that the GS players won't give Kerr a fair chance to start, but I do think there's a good chance that if things don't go well, they sour on him more quickly than they would under other circumstances.

 

[Van Everyman]

Psyched about this. The three of them were the best team since Stockton and Tommy on CBS in the 80s.

@richarddeitsch: Mark Jackson has returned to ESPN. Multi-year deal. Will call Eastern Conference finals with Breen and Van Gundy: http://t.co/yjYNiQyyNn

 

[Tony C]

 
 
I know Bucher is just quoting an anonymous player, but those comments are really absurd.  Players are going to play the race card with Kerr?  White owner and a white coach.... give me a break.  If some of the players are upset about that combo, they are insane.
 
 
Here is a piece I thought was good over at ESPN New York.  Not sure if this was posted over there because they expected him to be the Knicks new coach.  But as GMB mentioned above, Kerr has a very interesting life story.  I grew up in the same town as Kerr did many years after he had already left, and vaguely knew about his story, but admit I didn't know the details. Crazy stuff.
 
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10895607/golden-state-warriors-steve-kerr-tough-enough-nba-coaching

 
Thanks for posting that, hard not to be a fan. My guess is the racial stuff will blow over quickly enough -- especially if Shaw becomes the subject of a tug of war between Denver and NY, so benefiting from the sort of leverage that helped Kerr get so much more money than Jackson.

 

[radsoxfan]

I don't really see why you're arguing, there's no 'grievance' here exactly, but these kind of issues are in the forefront of everyone in the NBA's mind right now after the Sterling thing blew up. It's just a fact, sorry if you don't like that. 
 

 
There is no grievance because this stuff happens all the time, and it's usually not race related.  When Mike Brown was fired by the Lakers and Mike D'Antoni took over, did people say race was a factor?
 
Just because race is in the forefront of everyones mind in the NBA, and people can construe many issues to be race related, it doesn't mean they should or that they actually are race related. 
 
In my opinion, you need a lot more evidence than a white owner firing a black coach and replacing him with a white coach.  

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Thanks for posting that, hard not to be a fan. My guess is the racial stuff will blow over quickly enough -- especially if Shaw becomes the subject of a tug of war between Denver and NY, so benefiting from the sort of leverage that helped Kerr get so much more money than Jackson.

 
Yeah, the money thing is about demand in my opinion, not race.  There was no demand for Jackson's services (probably because he sounded like a nitwit on TV), so Golden State didn't have to pay him very much.  Kerr was in demand, so they had to pay him enough to outbid NY. I don't think Lacob is in the business of overpaying a guy just to be nice or just because he is white.  That contract is what it took to get Kerr to coach his team.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

For any remaining weirdos who for whatever reason don't love Steph Curry: did you know he was a Red Sox fan?

https://m.facebook.com/StephenCurryOfficial/posts/772316256126618

(Man, just when I thought I couldn't be any more of a slobbering Curry fanboy...)

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Bump for 2014/15.
 
The Warriors with their recharged Kerr/Gentry offense just visited SoCal and blew the Clippers and Lakers off the floor in all three games.
 
Last night they jumped out to a 39-13 lead on the Lakeshow en route to a 41 point humiliation. Kobe's in awe:
 

Kobe on the Lakers' back-to-back blowout losses to GSW: "You have to consider the opposition. We're not as bad as we look against them."
— Arash Markazi (@ArashMarkazi)
 

 
 
Curry scores 25 points on 11 shots; Kobe and Nash go a combined 3-18. Kobe is a -39 in 24 minutes. Ethan Sherwood Strauss is saddened by the state of Nash:
 

Poor Nash ran one of the slowest fast breaks I've ever seen. Defense rushed past him like a tsunami
— Ethan Strauss (@SherwoodStrauss)
 

 
 
The Warriors had the top-ranked defense in the Western Conference last season. If this offense is remotely for real, look out Western Conference. With Durant out a couple months, Curry may currently be the best player in the conference. Thompson was a revelation this summer for Team USA (described by announcers as the best two-way performer on the team); Green and Barnes both look to have taken pretty big steps forward; Lee and Iguodala look healthier than they did last year; Bogut is looking spry, playing "point center," and shooting his free throws with a smoother, left-handed (!) stroke; and serious reinforcements have been added in Livingston, Barbosa, Brandon Rush and Ezeli.
 
Perhaps most importantly, the Kerr/Gentry/Adams offensive system already looks much faster, more-structured, and more Spurs-like than at any point during the Mark Jackson era.
 
With Durant out, and Duncan and Manu now 38 and 37 respectively (and Pop making noises that he might slightly sandbag the regular season), the door is open for a new #1 seed in the West. From what I've seen in three pre-season games, I think the Warriors have as good a shot as anyone. Maybe 1a/1b with the Clippers. Who are you guys picking?
 
(Edit: I can't embed tweets),

 

[Blacken]

I'm picking Not The Team With Andrew Bogut's Injury History.

I mean, I'll be watching as many games as I can, because god knows I won't be watching the Celtics, but the team without that drawback seems like a much safer bet.

 

[coremiller]

This is going to be a fun team to watch.  Despite all the talent, they were only 12th in pts/per 100 possessions and were actually a mess last year in terms of offensive system.  From Zach Lowe:
 

 
The offense didn’t hold up its end of the bargain, but that figures to change with a new coach and improved depth on the perimeter. Golden State finished about 11 percent of its possessions with an isolation play, the third-highest mark in the league, and famously tossed the fewest passes of any team — by a mile. As John Schuhmann pointed out, passing is not a proxy for good offense; some teams have great isolation scorers and post players and can score efficiently without aping the Spurs.  The Warriors are not one of those teams. They can go one-on-one and work the post in small doses, but given the splendid passing, killer shooting, and high basketball IQ across the roster, this should be a team that slays with motion and smarts. The Dubs didn’t generate many assist opportunities relative to league average last season, but when a pass did directly set up a shot attempt, Golden State set the nets on fire, per SportVU data.

 
The big question mark (besides health) is whether Kerr can get the group to buy in defensively in terms of effort the way Jackson did, which was Jackson's biggest strength as a coach.  If the D can stay where it was last year, and the offense improves with a better system, and they stay healthy, this team could be a real title contender.  But those are a lot of ifs, of course.

 

[Kliq]

This is either going to turn into the "Kliq-free thread" or the "Kliq walks around with an absurd amount of smugness thread," there is no in-between.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Ethan Sherwood Strauss (a bit of a Ws homer, but a generally excellent hoops analyst) gives the Warriors a shot:
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/golden-state-warriors/post/_/id/6/why-the-warriors-can-win-the-2014-15-title

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

No smugness for Kliq tonight (sorry dude).  Dubs handle Kings 95-77 led by Steph's 7-17 night (2-9 from three point land - he's gotta tone that down!).  Draymond Green, filling in for the injured David Lee, had a double-double and Mo Speights kicked in 16 points off the bench.   
 
Its on to the Lakers at home on Saturday but Sunday and Wednesday feature the first tests - the Blazers in Portland and then the Clips in Oakland.

 

[Blacken]

I am hoping I have my Sportsbook woes figured out for Saturday because no line will encompass the damage the Dubs are gonna do.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Steph's 7-17 night 

 
24 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 steals, +20.
 
Total menace on D and on the glass. Imagine how good he'd be if he could pass and shoot a little?

 

[Kliq]

Tonight was the first full game I saw from the Warriors, and I have to admit, they were pretty damn impressive. I knew Curry and Thompson were very good, but Draymond Green looked fantastic and their bench looks greatly improved over last season. The Clippers have some serious issues they need to work out on defense, but a very impressive win from GS.

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

Impressive for the Dubs is having 2 legit, healthy Centers. Bogut and Ezeli are very critical. These guys could go deep...
Draymond is an all-time glue guy.
Livingston and Barbosa off the bench are smart and potent.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I said this in the game-thread but Draymond Green (who you may know I love) is the x-factor in that it all starts with defense and rebounding with him.  Furthermore, the guy seems to be one of the few who can give Griffin a tough time - Green is a tough defender inside because he is relentless but he is also quick enough to keep Griffin honest outside even with Blake's improved range.  The tongue thing is something I have never seen before from him and while he is a chippy player, he is rarely demonstrative.  Perhaps its the cumulative nature of their battles but I suspect something more is at play to cause Green to do that.
 
Harrison Barnes gets lost here but Kerr seems to be finding him a good role and Barnes has rewarded him with good defense and by picking his spots.  If they can get him going, watch out because if he can be their slasher the spacing will be crazy.
 
Anyhow, from one test to an even bigger one.  Friday night in Houston should be fun.  

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Big showdown in Houston in tonight.
 
Current NBA leaders in PD:
 
1. GS +15.8
2. Hou +14.7
3. Por +8.6
 
Stats to date of the Team USA kids (per 36 mins.):
 
Harden 26.5 pts on .620 ts / 7.3 ast / 6.8 reb
Curry 27.7 pts on .607 ts / 7.5 ast / 6.9 reb (+22.1 plus-minus, #1 in the NBA)
Thompson 28.6 pts on .692 ts
 
Yow.
 
Ws will be without Lee (out at least two weeks with strained hammy, part of a worrisome recent rend of core injuries); Rox will be without Terrence Jones and sometime Curry-stopper Patrick Beverley. Not a lot of love lost between these two teams -- Howard v Bogut is always chippy; and last season the Ws took umbrage with the Rockets too-eagerly chasing the 3 pt record at their expense. (Draymond Green laid serious lumber on Beverley as payback for clowning too enthusiastically). Should be entertaining.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Its very early in the season and a lot can happen (including injuries to key players). But who wants to fade the Warriors, at full strength, now?

 

[bowiac]

Its very early in the season and a lot can happen (including injuries to key players). But who wants to fade the Warriors, at full strength, now?

A lot of advanced stats projections had them as the best team in the NBA coming into the year, but even they seem to have missed the impact of getting rid of Mark Jackson. They look like a machine, and are deep enough to survive some injuries too.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Curry through 5 games (per 36 mins):
 
28.4 points
.654 ts
.970 ft
7.4 rebounds (not a typo)
6.8 assists
3.3 steals
#1 in the NBA in defensive rating
#1 in the NBA in plus-minus
 
Early times, but right now he's playing like the best player in the NBA, full stop (Harden was in the conversation before last night).

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Not a particularly impressive win against a decimated Rockets team (without Howard, Beverley or Jones), but not every game can be a walkover, especially on the road. Sometimes great teams have to grind it out defensively and let their superstar win the game for them, as the Ws did last night.

 

[radsoxfan]

Curry through 5 games (per 36 mins):
 
28.4 points
.654 ts
.970 ft
7.4 rebounds (not a typo)
6.8 assists
3.3 steals
#1 in the NBA in defensive rating
#1 in the NBA in plus-minus
 
Early times, but right now he's playing like the best player in the NBA, full stop (Harden was in the conversation before last night).

 
I expect the rebounds to come down a bit of course, but yeah, he is unreal on the offensive end.  What a great contract thats turning out to be for GS.
 
My favorite player to watch in the NBA for sure. I just hope those ankles hold up. 

 

[Tony C]

Not a particularly impressive win against a decimated Rockets team (without Howard, Beverley or Jones), but not every game can be a walkover, especially on the road. Sometimes great teams have to grind it out defensively and let their superstar win the game for them, as the Ws did last night.

 
I know this is a fan thread and all, but "great" team is a bit much. They're off to a hot start and, to be clear, I'm a believer. But they haven't won squat, so "great" is more than a stretch.

 

[radsoxfan]

 
I know this is a fan thread and all, but "great" team is a bit much. They're off to a hot start and, to be clear, I'm a believer. But they haven't won squat, so "great" is more than a stretch.

 
It's just a semantic argument to be sure, and of course it's still very early, but I'd call them a top 5 team in the NBA right now.
 
That's pretty great if you ask me. 

 

[bowiac]

They were the preseason advanced stats favorite, and have outplayed that level. I think they're the title favorites (although hardly locks obviously). They look like a good bet to win 60, especially if Draymond Green stays in the starting lineup.

 

[radsoxfan]

What happened to Andre Iguodala?  He is 30, but looks like he is 40.  What a dud he suddenly turned into.
 
GS would be even better if they weren't wasting 12M on him the next couple of years. 

 

[Tony C]

 
It's just a semantic argument to be sure, and of course it's still very early, but I'd call them a top 5 team in the NBA right now.
 
....

 
I agree.

 

[Blacken]

What happened to Andre Iguodala?  He is 30, but looks like he is 40.  What a dud he suddenly turned into.
 
GS would be even better if they weren't wasting 12M on him the next couple of years.

I don't think they're using him very well. He's a drive-and-kick (with admittedly less of the drive-and-finish these days) who's being expected to create and spot up. They need to get him the ball when he's already moving.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

And the NBA back-to-back road game scheduling plus the absence of Klay Thompson (and David Lee) finally hangs the first loss on the Warriors at the hands of the Phoenix Suns.  Isaiah Thomas (this kid is really fun to watch for NBA-heads) and old knucklehead friend Gerald Green dominated the fourth quarter (Green had 16 points!) for the sneakily talented Suns.  
 
Next up - the champs visit the Dubs on Tuesday.   Let's see if Pop can rest folks and still win at Oracle.

 

[Infield Infidel]

Draymond Green last night 31 points, 7 three pointers
 
12 wins in a row. Best record in the NBA. This is a fun team to watch. 

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Draymond Green last night 31 points, 7 three pointers
 
12 wins in a row. Best record in the NBA. This is a fun team to watch. 

 
Its not a fluke either.  Fourth in O-rating.  First in D-rating.  Number one in net-rating and at 12.6, they are 3.8 points better than the next best team, Dallas.  They may get better too, depending on how well David Lee works into the second unit when he comes back.  Its all but certain that Kerr will with stick with Draymond Green as the starting PF.  He doesn't have Lee's post moves but he is, perhaps, the Warriors most versatile defender and is now turning into a true stretch-four.

 

[Infield Infidel]

The interesting thing with Green and Barnes is that Green is stronger and better able to guard the bigger fours, but if the other team has a stretch four and Green and Barnes have to switch off they aren't in deep trouble. 
 
They also have a deep bench, Iguodala, Livingston, Lee, Speights, Barbosa, guys who could start elsewhere, or are older guys that aren't what they were five years ago but they can give you solid minutes. They aren't even that old, oldest guy on the team is Barbosa who is 32.