Yeah, who's saying it's just him? He also sucks and is a HUGE part of their issues on offense. Move on next year. Not hard.
This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots
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I think you are underestimating how good Marino was. While i think Brady is the GOAT, I think Marino is an angel’s breath away.
Mac could be a backup easily. You guys get crazy about Mac. First it was in the other direction and now it’s in this direction. He had a couple of dreadful games this year, but he has mostly played like a backup level guy. He has had 3 shithead OCs in 3 years. I bet he could back up Goff fine if Ben Johnson stays there.
They have the worst record in the AFC. By themselves. Their starting QB has played every meaningful snap. In other words, this isn’t the 2011 Colts, who Bill vowed he would never be as bad as.
Gotta say, during or just after yesterday's game, I moved from team "BB is just going through a slump, he'll figure it out, everything will be fine as he finishes the Shula pursuit" to team "BB is going to walk away in the offseason."
BB is a smart and proud man. At the end of the season, he'll be smart enough to realize that the league has passed him by with respect to talent evaluation. And when he looks at the Commanders game, the mistakes his team made in all three phases - mistakes that even a good HS squad wouldn't make - indicate that the league has passed BB the coach by, too.
He's smart enough to know that 17 wins isn't going to happen with this squad, in this league, for years. And proud enough not to doddle into his mid/late 70s treating every win like an artefact needed to complete some ancient rune.
So - I think he'll go. If he wants to continue, I hope he does it someplace with better core talent than he has (built) with the Pats - like Brady did. Hell, I'd be rooting for him to win a SB. But he needs an entirely new squad, or failing that, a bigger boat that he can take on a long cruise.
BB is a smart and proud man. At the end of the season, he'll be smart enough to realize that the league has passed him by with respect to talent evaluation. And when he looks at the Commanders game, the mistakes his team made in all three phases - mistakes that even a good HS squad wouldn't make - indicate that the league has passed BB the coach by, too.
He's smart enough to know that 17 wins isn't going to happen with this squad, in this league, for years. And proud enough not to doddle into his mid/late 70s treating every win like an artefact needed to complete some ancient rune.
So - I think he'll go. If he wants to continue, I hope he does it someplace with better core talent than he has (built) with the Pats - like Brady did. Hell, I'd be rooting for him to win a SB. But he needs an entirely new squad, or failing that, a bigger boat that he can take on a long cruise.
It struck me watching SNF that the Bills would be a great BB landing spot. This season is teetering, and their schedule the rest of the way is tough. If they don't advance to the AFC championship game, some sort of change feels likely. Compensation would be fascinating. I'd pursue a "1st now, 1st down the road" approach, banking the latter may be quite valuable as the core ages.
Probably a pipe dream, but it's an interesting sliding doors scenario for all parties IMO.
I don't see any chance of that happening, especially after the Bills threw a fat guy TD to an OL to extend their lead to 37 points in the playoff game a few years ago.
If Kraft allowed BB to trade Drew Bledsoe to Buffalo, he'll trade BB there if Buffalo offers up a 1st round pick.
Jeez, the guy wins six SBs in 20 years and we're going to banish him to the bowels of the Earth because he's had a few bad/terrible seasons? Have you guys ever been to Buffalo (especially in the winter)?
Trade Bill to the Bears for their number one pick, draft Harrison and Maye, then an offensive tackle in the second round, get Judon and Gonzales back, and let’s roll!
Whatever first round pick they get for Bill, the new GM absolutely must trade it down into the second round and pick up an extra fourth.
And then go off the board to draft someone with #2 and lose #4 to a bogus scandal.
The Chargers seem like the most realistic trade candidate for Bill. Playoff team from a year ago, QB and talent in place on the offensive side of the ball, Bill could clean up the defense. Would have to deal with KC twice a year but the rest of the division is no great shakes. They seem like the best "coach away" team. Dallas is up there but I don't see Bill and Jerrah ever co-existing.
I will say, I'm not taking seriously any complaints that say the last 4 years have been bad. It's been at most 2. The man almost made the playoffs with Cam Newton whose arm fell off, then made it with a rookie Mac Jones. Those were both masterclasses in overachievement. Last 2 years have been bad. The short-term bump for 2021 turned into bad contracts, and then the Juju/Meyers swap failed too. He let OL talent go thinking he could replace it and couldn't. Add in injuries this year and the bottom fell out.
But I see 2 bad years at most there.
But I see 2 bad years at most there.
Fair, but let's not forget they were 9-4 and in first in the entire AFC in late-ish 2021 before the wheels came off. Now, BB deserves a ton of credit for putting the Pats in that position to begin with. But they fell apart after their bye in 2021, then had the disastrous playoff game, and then these last two years.
I could maybe see the Giants for sentimental reasons if Daboll continues to flame out, but there's a good chance he won't coach and just take a team president role like Parcells did with the Dolphins (and nearly half a dozen other teams). He'll be 72 next year, an age where few have coached a full season (Halas, Levy, Carroll, Crennel).
Around when teams realized that you could dare him to make tough throws to the outside and he wouldn't try or execute enough to hurt you
They probably overachieved in the Cam year but they were 7-9 and 4 games out of a playoff spot.
you're right, for some reason I forgot that was the year that both wild cards had tons of wins, just assumed it was 8 or 9 wins like usual
Utterly depressing, yet in this bleak picture is the hope for the future (i.e., for the first time in the BB era, like a top 2-5 draft pick?)?
Hey BBJ... see my post in the Mac's Future thread. What's your take on how the rest of the season plays out?
vs IND (Germany)
Bye
@ NYG
vs LAC
@ PIT
vs KC
@ DEN
@ BUF
vs NYJ
When they beat Buffalo, I thought, well ok now, they've shown that they're CAPABLE of beating good teams, so suddenly I was pretty hopeful that they could make a run. And then the last two weeks happened and it feels like they're not going to win another game this season. I think they'll get crushed by KC and Buffalo, and maybe even the Jets if Rodgers is back by then (which seems like a very real possibility). Pit and the Chargers were games that, at the start of the year anyway, I thought the Pats could/should win, but now I'm like...uh....no clue about those. The Giants they should beat, and Denver too, but let's be honest about Denver - would it be a stretch to see Wilson go off and have Jeudy go for like 10/150/2 td and the Pats lose 20-13 to them? I could totally see that. Indy is much tougher than I thought they'd be too.
So at this point I'm looking at basically one win - probably against the Giants - and MAYBE a second win somewhere in there.
And that would probably be best for the team long-term, losing a ton and getting a top 3 draft pick.
So naturally what'll probably happen is that they'll find a way to win like 4 or 5 of these games and finish with 6 or 7 wins, clearly bad enough to be not good but also not so bad as to secure a top 3 pick.
How's that for a gloomy prediction from a guy most know here tends to have an optimistic outlook on things.
I have the same feeling. They'll somehow pull out 3 more wins and only end up picking like 7th.
They should definitely beat the Giants. If you are very optimistic, I think 3 wins is possible, which is about the worst case scenario IMO.
The issue as we saw this past weekend is the offense is so bad that even if the D shows up and plays well any of those games could be losses. Washington is (a) bad and (b) tanking and they beat the Pats in Foxboro. I think they probably find a way to win two of those games, but I could see them losing out especially if Mac continues to suck and guys check out. I can never root for them to lose when I watch so I think that means I have to find something else to do on Sundays because they are probably going to lose most of those games and it’s probably best that they do.
If they pick 7th, they should still get a terrific player, but it'll be harder to get the QB they need even in the 2nd round.
Here's cbssports' prospect rankings.
Here's how they rank OFFENSIVE players:
1. WR Harrison, Ohio St
2. QB Williams, USC
3. OT Fashanu, Penn St
4. TE Bowers, Georgia
5. QB Maye, UNC
6. OT Latham, Alabama
7. OT Alt, Notre Dame
8. WR Nabers, LSU
9. WR Coleman, Florida St
10. OL Fuaga, Oregon St
So the Pats could get a really good WR in Nabers or Coleman, even though those guys are ranked #13 and #16 overall by cbssports - so taking either of them at #7 would be a slight "reach", if anyone cares about that. But both of them are very, very good, and they play in big time programs. I wouldn't feel bad at all if either of them ended up in Foxboro.
They could also take an elite OT - three of them are ranked highly and good chance one of them falls to NE at #7 (their hypothetical draft slot in this thought experiment). Without grabbing one of the top QBs, this is how I'd go. Though let's be honest...Bowers at TE would be something BB would possibly do, right? He's obviously a very talented player and fits a need, especially if they aren't sold on either Henry or Gesicki. Bowers is an elite TE and could be an NFL star for years. And Bill loves his tight ends.
In the second round we'd be looking at pick #39. And according to cbssports' rankings, both Nix and Penix would at least theoretically be available, assuming teams follow these rankings (which they won't). So it's POSSIBLE for them to land an elite OT or WR in the first round and then grab a really good QB in the second. This is what I'd like them to do. But Penix is moving up the draft rankings pretty quickly so who knows.
Still, long story short is that if the Pats pick #7, they should still be able to get some really good talent.
Of course they'll take a guard or run-stuffing DT. LOL
Here's cbssports' prospect rankings.
Here's how they rank OFFENSIVE players:
1. WR Harrison, Ohio St
2. QB Williams, USC
3. OT Fashanu, Penn St
4. TE Bowers, Georgia
5. QB Maye, UNC
6. OT Latham, Alabama
7. OT Alt, Notre Dame
8. WR Nabers, LSU
9. WR Coleman, Florida St
10. OL Fuaga, Oregon St
So the Pats could get a really good WR in Nabers or Coleman, even though those guys are ranked #13 and #16 overall by cbssports - so taking either of them at #7 would be a slight "reach", if anyone cares about that. But both of them are very, very good, and they play in big time programs. I wouldn't feel bad at all if either of them ended up in Foxboro.
They could also take an elite OT - three of them are ranked highly and good chance one of them falls to NE at #7 (their hypothetical draft slot in this thought experiment). Without grabbing one of the top QBs, this is how I'd go. Though let's be honest...Bowers at TE would be something BB would possibly do, right? He's obviously a very talented player and fits a need, especially if they aren't sold on either Henry or Gesicki. Bowers is an elite TE and could be an NFL star for years. And Bill loves his tight ends.
In the second round we'd be looking at pick #39. And according to cbssports' rankings, both Nix and Penix would at least theoretically be available, assuming teams follow these rankings (which they won't). So it's POSSIBLE for them to land an elite OT or WR in the first round and then grab a really good QB in the second. This is what I'd like them to do. But Penix is moving up the draft rankings pretty quickly so who knows.
Still, long story short is that if the Pats pick #7, they should still be able to get some really good talent.
Of course they'll take a guard or run-stuffing DT. LOL
The offense is bad... but it isn't the Giants. The Giants are on pace for the lowest scoring season since the 2009 Rams.
They'll be favored against the Giants, who somehow have a OL and QB situation even more bleak than what's here.
The Giants are starting something named Tommy DeVito, they'd be underdogs against any other team.
PFN 2024 Draft Simulator is up lol.
I just drafted Harrison at 5, Penix at 36. Tackles at 46 and 67 (traded 2025 frp to get back into second round).
For those who need hope, it's a nice thing to have.
Harrison went #2. I traded down. lol
EDIT: In second try, Maye fell to 5, Rams tried to trade up. I said NO.
Penix as an NFL QB is an open question for me and I am a fan. He has an incredible arm and makes throws you can dream on but he also isn't really mobile. I worry about how he looks against an NFL rush when the ball has to come out much more quickly than he is accustomed to behind a very good college OL.
Yes I get the concerns, but he's a legit NFL QB prospect and they desperately need to get one. To get a guy like that in the second round after already getting Harrison would be a nice draft.
That would a really good draft, IMO, and I'm far from sold on Pennix (I've got some PTSD from his 4 years in the Big Ten, absent one amazing game against OSU).
Has BB ever had a lefty QB on the roster? I know he had Simms back in his Giants days, but I don't think he's had one during his head coaching career in New England or Cleveland. For all we know, Bill views righty QB's the way he does lefty punters. I don't think Pennix makes it out of the 1st round, but honestly, I'm starting to develop a man crush on JJ McCarthy, which could just be the Michigan helmet. Long time between now and the draft for things to change though.
If they got Penix in this draft I'd be pretty excited. I am just not sure what his game looks like at the pro level. He can definitely make all the back shoulder throws though. He puts balls in catch radiuses, downfield, regularly.
I just looked in Pro Football Reference and I don't see a LH QB in the BB years at all.
This has been the scenario I have been playing over and over in my head the last couple of weeks.
Not saying I LOVE Penix, but as others have said he makes some incredible throws and I think he’s a little more mobile than he gets credit for.
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