Trading Jon Lester (news and speculation thread)

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dcmissle

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Morgan said:
 
Plus, who knows whether he wants to play out the rest of the career with the team that trades for him.  Does he want to spend the next six years in Toronto?  Baltimore?  Maybe, maybe not.
 
I don't see Lester as having much incentive to sign a new contract midseason with whichever team acquires him just because an approximately market-value deal is waived in his face.  All he really gets is protection against injury for about 10 starts and he gives up a lot in terms of expected dollars as well as control over his future.
If Stark is right that he loves Atlanta, maybe there.

But commit to Baltimore (for example), where you have never lived, and to teammates and management who you have never met, for 6 years? Nope.

The rationale we've seen here is that it would help the RS cause he would yield more. It's our version of the Al Franken decade

Edit. I get the sense that sense that Jayson Stark ran down the list of possible destinations pretty fairly, while Olney seems to be wish casting Lester to LaD, where he could do little damage until the end to the MFYs, in exchange for Kemp, who Buster would love to turn into a poison pill.
 

DJnVa

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dcmissle said:
But commit to Baltimore (for example), where you have never lived, and to teammates and management who you have never met, for 6 years? Nope.
 
Well, FA commit all the time to situations where they are not familiar at all with their teammates and management (outside of the FA negotiation). That said, Lester will be testing FA no matter where he goes.
 

dcmissle

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Well, FA commit all the time to situations where they are not familiar at all with their teammates and management (outside of the FA negotiation). That said, Lester will be testing FA no matter where he goes.
Yes, after spending some time in the city and sitting down with the manager and GM, if not the owner.
 

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foulkehampshire said:
I don't believe Miami is a buyer for one minute.
Why not? Makes for an interesting three team trade, or  they could Mike Piazza him
 

E5 Yaz

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foulkehampshire said:
I don't believe Miami is a buyer for one minute.
 
Buster Olney tried to make the case for Miami buying this morning on his podcast. It came down to "you never know what that wacky Loria will do." Sounded more like Buster trying to talk himself into it than anything else. Stark, who was also on the podcast, wasn't buying the concept
 

Plympton91

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bosockboy said:
Buy SP's on shorter deals for bigger dollars.  I can see them doing 3/60 for Shields this winter.
Shields will laugh in their face even louder than Lester did at the 4/$70 offer. People are not being realistic about what free agents are going to get this winter.
 

strek1

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Corsi said:
 
Quote
JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm  1m
According to a source here are the teams that are “in” on Jon Lester at this hour: Tor,Sea,Milw,StL,LAD,Balt & Miami #ESPN #SiriusXM
 
 
Good. The more the merrier. Maybe the competition will get someody to cough up a couple of jewels.  Trading inside the div. doesn't matter because unless he really loves the Sox and returns  the MFY may end up with him next year anyway for the biggest payday.
 

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Plympton91 said:
Shields will laugh in their face even louder than Lester did at the 4/$70 offer. People are not being realistic about what free agents are going to get this winter.
I'm not so sure, particularly about Shields, who I think is a notch below Lester on the scale. Last winter Garza settled for 4/48. There seems to be a developing glut of starting pitchers on the market, as well as coming up from AAA, so while some free agents, like Scherzer and probably Lester, will get long deals for big money, I suspect that there will be a surplus of mid-range quality starters left to play musical chairs.
 

In my lifetime

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Corsi, on 29 Jul 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:
Corsi said:
 

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  14s
Possible dynamic in #RedSox talks: Lester, Lackey are close. Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15 or sign extensn if Lester is gone.
strek1 said:
 So let's see:
 
#1 Does this mean Lackey has spoken with Lester and they will bend over backwards contract wise to sign a favorable deal to stay together on the Sox?
 
#2 Why can't that still happen if Lester is a rental somewhere.  if they are so "tight' Jon will return, right?
 
#3 Once Lester hits the open market is Lackey then going to shop his services to the winner of the Lester sweepstakes at a nice price so he can be with his pal. 
 
In other words all 3 of my thoughts are callng this BS. At contract time money is king and friendship is meaningless. 
 
Agree. And maybe the only part of the Rosenthal's statement that is true and makes sense is to take this part out of context:
 
"Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15"
 
No Fooling.
 

CSteinhardt

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twibnotes said:
Guessing the Sox want their big contracts to be spent on guys whose FA status they are buying out. It's your Mike Stanton's or, hopefully, Xander Bogaert's.

It does beg the question: what do you do while you don't have guys like that, particularly at starting pitcher?
 
One option: overpay wildly to get Lester (or similar pitchers) on a shorter deal.  If you thought Lester is interested in signing for, say, 6/145, he'd probably sign for 3/100, because he expects that he can get more than $45M for those next three years, and you're paying him enough of a premium to convince him to take that risk.
 
As much as that contract looks silly, it's not so far off from the current plan, as the expectation is that he's worth more like $30M/year at the start and $10-15M at the end.  
 
A similar plan works with other top free agents -- if you don't want the tail end years, just pay full value for the prime years rather than amortizing over a longer contract.  You get more certainty with what you're getting and more long-term flexibility, in return for having a much, much smaller chance to be underpaying Lester during his contract.
 

YouDownWithOBP?

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Farrell does a weekly spot on WEEI Wednesday's at 2:30. I'm pretty much expecting he will announce that Lester has been scratched from Wednesday nights start the way everything is going.
 

glennhoffmania

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MartyBarrettMVP said:
[twitter]jlester31[/twitter]
 
https://twitter.com/JLester31/status/494178652108492805
 
Maybe I'm reading too much into this but it sounds like he knows he's gone....
We all know he's gone.
 
CSteinhardt said:
 
One option: overpay wildly to get Lester (or similar pitchers) on a shorter deal.  If you thought Lester is interested in signing for, say, 6/145, he'd probably sign for 3/100, because he expects that he can get more than $45M for those next three years, and you're paying him enough of a premium to convince him to take that risk.
 
As much as that contract looks silly, it's not so far off from the current plan, as the expectation is that he's worth more like $30M/year at the start and $10-15M at the end.  
 
A similar plan works with other top free agents -- if you don't want the tail end years, just pay full value for the prime years rather than amortizing over a longer contract.  You get more certainty with what you're getting and more long-term flexibility, in return for having a much, much smaller chance to be underpaying Lester during his contract.
There's zero reason for Lester to do this when multiple teams will guarantee him that extra $45m right now.  He assumes all the risk in your scenario.
 

amfox1

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
How much dialogue are they having with Lester about his destination, I wonder? Have they asked for an order of preference? If he wants to go to STL (or wherever), but LA has a slightly better offer, do you send him to STL and hope the goodwill carries into the offseason? Is it worth it? 
 
Balancing all factors, how are we handicapping the field? 
 
1. LAD
2. TOR
3. PIT
4. STL
5. BAL 
 
 
 
1. LAD - likely will make a big move, top-heavy system (position players)
2. TOR - likely will make a big move, top-heavy system (pitchers)
3. BAL - not sure if will make a big move, top-heavy system (mostly pitchers)
4. PIT - could make a big move, strong system 
5. STL - not sure if will make a big move, decent system with good fits
6. KC - could make a big move, decent system
7. SEA - could make a big move, hard to deal with, strong system
8. MIL - could make a big move, weak system
9. ATL - unlikely to make big move (Miller more likely), weak system
 

Mighty Joe Young

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In my lifetime said:
 
Corsi, on 29 Jul 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:
 
Agree. And maybe the only part of the Rosenthal's statement that is true and makes sense is to take this part out of context:
 
"Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15"
 
No Fooling.
 
I think this is more in reference to the fact that Lackey would - probably rightly - feel that not signing Lester would doom the Sox to another mediocre year - which is not something he wants to be part of. I don't think it's just the money.
 

CSteinhardt

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glennhoffmania said:
We all know he's gone.
 
There's zero reason for Lester to do this when multiple teams will guarantee him that extra $45m right now.  He assumes all the risk in your scenario.
 
That depends on his expected value for those three years otherwise.  He assumes the risk that he gets hurt and never gets the $45M, and the Sox assume the risk that he stays healthy and will end up getting a Sabathiav2 contract after 3 years.  I would think his earning power over those three years is in the $55-60M range on expectation, myself.  But, even if you think it's lower, there's some point at which it makes sense for him to take a larger, shorter deal.  Maybe if you're his agent, that's 3/110, but the same principle applies.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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amfox1 said:
 
 
1. LAD - likely will make a big move, top-heavy system (position players)
2. TOR - likely will make a big move, top-heavy system (pitchers)
3. BAL - not sure if will make a big move, top-heavy system (mostly pitchers)
4. PIT - could make a big move, strong system 
5. STL - not sure if will make a big move, decent system with good fits
6. KC - could make a big move, decent system
7. SEA - could make a big move, hard to deal with, strong system
8. MIL - could make a big move, weak system
9. ATL - unlikely to make big move (Miller more likely), weak system
 
I don't see TOR doing anything big - considering Lester will cost at least either Stroman or Sanchez - both of whom are contributing this year to the big club - so it would be a bit of a sideways move.
 
AA is "in" on everything and rarely ever pulls the trigger on anything major.
 
Besides. Toronto needs an OF or a 2B far more than a SP. 
 

glennhoffmania

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CSteinhardt said:
 
That depends on his expected value for those three years otherwise.  He assumes the risk that he gets hurt and never gets the $45M, and the Sox assume the risk that he stays healthy and will end up getting a Sabathiav2 contract after 3 years.  I would think his earning power over those three years is in the $55-60M range on expectation, myself.  But, even if you think it's lower, there's some point at which it makes sense for him to take a larger, shorter deal.  Maybe if you're his agent, that's 3/110, but the same principle applies.
 
Don't get me wrong.  I love the idea.  I just don't see him ever accepting an offer like that.  Someone will probably offer him $150m-$160m in November.  Then there's no reason he'd take $100m today and see what happens in three years.  Just think, if NY gave Ellsbury $150m+ what will they offer Lester?
 

jimbobim

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STL, LAD, PIT those are the teams I'm hoping for. 
 
All have position players close that could used in a variety of ways. 
 

Puffy

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soxhop411 said:
He is the only top prospect for SEA in AAA I believe 
 
I could see them with interest in Paxton, E. Ramirez, Choi or Franklin - perhaps Smoak or Montero, and obviously Taijuan Walker. If not for Lester, then maybe another deal. The Mariners may also be looking for RH hitting (Napoli, Gomes) or maybe relief pitching (Miller).
 

Tyrone Biggums

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If the Cardinals offer Oscar Tavares they win. I don't care if the Dodgers offer both Joc and Seager. He's that good of a prospect.
 

Corsi

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Even Baltimore officials admit their glaring need is a top-of-the-rotation piece. There are a few available in the market.
 
Yet, multiple executives who have dealt with the Orioles describe a team unwilling to move any of its three well-regarded young starters: Kevin Gausman, Dylan Bundy or Hunter Harvey.
 
If this holds, the Orioles will have to shoot for a more mid-tier starter similar to Bud Norris, whom they obtained at last year’s deadline, rather than make a significant play for Boston’s Jon Lester or Philadelphia’s Cole Hamels. Lester is a free agent after this season and Baltimore does not want to expend a big prospect for a dozen or so starts.
 
http://nypost.com/2014/07/29/orioles-not-showing-stomach-for-splashy-move/
 

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First of all, as with every situation on SOSH where rumors are flying around, there are way too many people tossing around innuendo, speculation, rumor, and anonymous-based reports as fact.  We've got multiple conflicting reports from a number of different sources, none of which are attributed.  Just "reports" with no name attached to them.
 
The only thing I've heard directly from the front office or Lester is that he doesn't want to negotiate during the season, and this isn't a new thing.  They've been saying it for months now.  Is it possible that they're both telling the truth and that it doesn't necessarily have to be the acrimonious soap opera so many want it to be?
 
Yes, it's entirely likely that the Red Sox gave him a low offer.  Would you blame them at the time?  Everyone is acting as if they insulted "Jon Lester, Proven Staff Ace", but the truth is that despite the 2013 playoff heroics, Lester was coming off three straight years of declining K numbers and 2 very pedestrian seasons in a row. 
 
Let's compare 2 guys over their 2012-2013 seasons:
 
Player A: 24-22, 7.4 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 4.28/3.84/3.86 ERA/FIP/xFIP, 97 ERA+
Player B: 23-17, 7.8 K/9, 2.1 BB/0, 3.69/3.82/4.01 ERA/FIP/xFIP, 114 ERA+
 
Player A is Lester, Player B is Jake Peavy.
 
I absolutely don't blame the Red Sox for not running to Lester with a multi-year $20M+/year offer after the season.  If I were them I'd want to see Lester prove that playoff Lester was the real Lester again, and not the guy they'd seen for the previous 2 seasons.
 
All that said, I agree that he's now proven himself and they should pay him for what he has become again.  But to act like Lester was some stud ace who was clearly worth a big long-term contract before the season is revisionist history.  If he truly doesn't want to negotiate during the season, then they should be looking to deal him solely based on the fact that they can't risk getting nothing more than a comp pick for him.
 

soxhop411

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Sources: Pirates emerging as Lester darkhorse. Deal could possibly center around Josh Bell. News with @TBrownYahoo: http://yhoo.it/1nZxxaj
 
 
The Pittsburgh Pirates are a fast-emerging dark horse in the Jon Lester sweepstakes, joining theLos Angeles Dodgers in pursuit of the Boston ace as the Red Sox decide whether to trade him before the July 31 deadline, major league sources told Yahoo Sports.
Pittsburgh, two games back of the Milwaukee Brewers in the National League Central and a half-game behind three teams competing for the two wild-card spots, boasts one of the best farm systems in the game and could use it to fortify its run at a second straight postseason spot. And one name at the center of the talks, according to sources, is switch-hitting prospect Josh Bell.
The Red Sox continue to ask for an exceedingly high return considering Lester will be a free agent this offseason, sources said, targeting multiple high-end prospects in exchange for what amounts to a rental. The price is prohibitive, particularly with other aces, such as Tampa Bay’s David Priceand Philadelphia’s Cole Hamels, nominally available, not to mention the strong perception that Boston must deal Lester now because it has no intentions of re-signing him in the offseason.
Bell, 21, is the sort of prospect around whom a deal could be made. He hit .335/.384/.502 at Class A Bradenton before a recent promotion to Double-A. The Pirates signed him for $5 million after selecting him in the second round of the 2011 draft.
The Dodgers’ potential centerpieces are considered even higher-end: pitcher Julio Urias, outfielder Joc Pederson and shortstop Corey Seager. While the Dodgers are not insistent on adding a pitcher to a rotation that already includes Clayton Kershaw, Zack Greinke, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Josh Beckett and Dan Haren, the ability to use their vast financial resources and deep farm system to upgrade is indeed alluring, sources said.
Who that is, exactly, depends on how the market shifts before the 4 p.m. ET deadline Thursday. Tampa Bay, which has thrust itself back into the American League East race, could hold on to Price. Similarly, the Phillies, with Hamels under contract for another four seasons, may try to rebuild around him. Or one of the teams, sensing the glut of pitching and wanting to make a deal, could lower its asking price.
Boston could be the first team to budge. Lester is scheduled to start tomorrow night, and the Red Sox have indicated they would like to know whether he’s staying or going before his outing, according to a source.
Other teams known to be interested in the frontline starters include the Milwaukee Brewers,Toronto Blue JaysBaltimore OriolesSt. Louis Cardinals and Seattle Mariners.
 

jimbobim

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Tyrone Biggums said:
If the Cardinals offer Oscar Tavares they win. I don't care if the Dodgers offer both Joc and Seager. He's that good of a prospect.
 
Bingo. 
 
Lackey Lester( i just view it as an inverse to the Cubs - A's deal and Lackey and Miller add value to a "rented" Lester) and Miller for Taveras and some lottery type. Come on red birds. 
 

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dcmissle said:
Yes, after spending some time in the city and sitting down with the manager and GM, if not the owner.
It's a stretch to say that Lester isn't familiar with the city having made over a dozen trips there over the course of his career. He would also be reunited with his former pitching coach Dave Wallace who we spent a couple spring trainings with in Fort Myers. It's not like he'd be going to Gaza.
 

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Plympton91 said:
I think equally importantly they misjudged how likely it was that he would have one of the best season's of his career. Back in the spring, I hypothesized that maybe they wanted to watch until the all-star break to see if he was going to be playoff Lester or first-half of 2013 Lester. Then the theory was they'd pay up the money they wouldn't in the spring with the increased assurance that whatever Farrell did to fix him in the second half of last season was durable. Given that they had access to Farrell and can observe an other changes in Lester's training, preparation, or nutritional habits, it seems like they should have been able to figure that out without the extra half season, but so be it. Yet, the break came and went, Lester's side is still floating highly reasonable contract terms, and the Red Sox are sitting on their hands. This just makes no sense.
Or maybe they knew they weren’t ever going to meet Lester's asking price and simply chose to hang on to him to see if they could make another run for the playoffs. Now that its clear that they aren't going anywhere, they put him on the block to see what he will fetch. If the trade returns aren't sufficient, they stand pat and take the pick.

You may not like what the FO is doing but let's not pretend that they are just making it up as they go along. Its disingenuous and laughable. I laugh in your general direction.
 

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I was daydreaming last night that the Love It or List It people would show up at my house and offer to do $50K of renovation to it.  I put thinking the Cards are giving up Oscar Tavares in the same echelon of likelihood.
 

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The Red Sox are said to want top shortstop prospect Corey Seager or top outfielder prospect Joc Pederson back for Lester, and it's questionable whether LA would consider even Pederson, much less Seager, who's thought to be basically untouchable, especially for a rental.
 
"I can't see a scenario where [the Dodgers] move Seager," one rival executive said.
 
The Dodgers would rather talk about their next-tier prospects, who are still pretty good, but the Red Sox may be insistent on an elite guy for their ace pitcher. While Boston has played its way out of the AL race in recent days, by keeping Lester they retain the right to extend a qualifying offer in the offseason, which will at least earn them a draft choice.
 
The Mariners, Blue Jays, Athletics and Braves have also been tied to Lester through various reports, but some teams may just be window shopping.
 
Here are the current would-be contenders for the best player likely to be traded ...
 
1. Dodgers: Pederson, a great speed/power combo, is the one who makes the most sense for Boston, which needs outfielders (no way LA trades Seager anyway). If the Dodgers won't do Peterson, they have a string of pitchers who may entice, lea by 17-year-old lefty Julio Urias and hard-throwing Chris Anderson but also Zach Lee, Tom Windle and others.
 
2. Brewers: Milwaukee is an aggressive team that's willing to go for it, and has in the past. Brewers GM Doug Melvin traded top prospects for CC Sabathia in a deadline deal and for Zack Greinke in a winter deal. The Brewers have big young right-hander Jimmy Nelson and more prospects at their disposal than usual.
 
3. Pirates: The Pirates aren't a team that's thought to be enamored by the rental route, but they could use another big-time starter and seem to be in this. They do have prospects, starting with pitchers Jameson Taillon and Tyler Glasnow plus outfielders Josh Bell and Austin Meadows, who could help Boston.
 
4. Orioles: They have been steadfast in their desire to hold onto top young pitcher Kevin Gausman, who was the asking price for Jorge De La Rosa and presumably would be the first requested name in exchange for Lester, as well. Dylan Bundy, like Taillon coming off Tommy John surgery, is also a highly regarded former top pick. After that, the Orioles have two more big-time arms in Eduardo Rodriguez and Hunter Harvey. They are clearly going for it, and GM Dan Duquette has shown the willingness to take calculated risks at times.
 
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24641801/current-lester-leaders-may-dodgers-pirates-brewers-and-orioles
 

Pilgrim

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Bell is the right level of prospect, is somewhat blocked, and fits a need for the Red Sox. That is the most sensible rumor so far, I think.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Bell and Tallion for Lester I would do in a Johnny Manziel heartbeat.
 

DJnVa

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dcmissle said:
Yes, after spending some time in the city and sitting down with the manager and GM, if not the owner.
 
Which is exactly what would happen if he was traded to a team tomorrow. I don't think anyone expects a player to get dealt then immediately sign a new contract. They'd get the rest of this season to talk that through.
 

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
 
You're assuming that 1) he didn't do that; and 2) that it would produce an honest answer. 
 
Would be a strange way of transmitting that if so. 
 
He could have put out the same information with: "Asked Lackey's team if Lester would be a factor in determining whether he'd play for 500k next year. They said no. Still something to consider."
 

jimbobim

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Bell alone is kind of far away (just got promoted to AA) I don't know if he'd be ready till the All Star break next year at the earliest. I'd like someone a little closer but these negotiations seem to be taking place at warp speed. 
 

nattysez

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Tyrone Biggums said:
Bell and Tallion for Lester I would do in a Johnny Manziel heartbeat.
 
Can you explain a bit?  Bell just got promoted to AA and is ranked in the 70s on both the Baseball Prospectus and MLB lists.  Taillon is coming off TJ surgery.  They are not exactly lottery tickets, but those guys also don't strike me as super-strong prospects.  Am I badly underrating them, or am I overrating what the Sox can reasonably expect to receive for Lester? 
 

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Even a week ago, I would have thought that a guy like Bell for two+ months of Lester would not be realistic, but there are enough allegedly interested teams in this, with good and plentiful prospects to deal, that the bidding could easily reach that level now.  Still doubt that anyone offers a top 5 or 10 guy like Tavares.  But a top 30 or so guy plus an interesting A-ball level player?  I think it happens.  I especially like that Pitt and Mil are in this, as they seem both less likely to sign Lester long term and clearly capable of driving the price up on LA, maximizing our return.
 
Edit to add: BA ranked Bell 35th midseason.
 
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