"We're going to Disney World!" NBA to resume season July 31 at WDW

Kliq

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I put Melo in the Isiah Thomas category of: college superstar / high pick who always carried himself like a superstar, took big shots like a superstar, and put up counting stats like a superstar, but was actually more like a #10-20 player in the league at his peak in terms of impact on wins.

Key differences: Isiah was actually part of a championship team (x2); and Melo is by all accounts a super likable and decent human being.

in any case, yeah, Melo’s 100% a Hall-of-Famer. Not happening, but: what a cherry on top of his HoF career it’d be to knock off The King...
This is a bad comparison. Melo is much more similar to Dominque Wilkins, Alex English or Adrian Darnley as far as career impact goes. Scored a lot of points, made a lot of ASG, never won anything for a variety of reasons. Melo is more naturally talented than those guys but basketball was never as important to him.
 

Sam Ray Not

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This is a bad comparison. Melo is much more similar to Dominque Wilkins, Alex English or Adrian Darnley as far as career impact goes. Scored a lot of points, made a lot of ASG, never won anything for a variety of reasons. Melo is more naturally talented than those guys but basketball was never as important to him.
Yeah, I noted the "never won anything" caveat. And I didn't mean to imply Melo was "similar" to Isiah — obviously they're totally different players, at totally different positions. Fwiw, I mostly agree with the subtext of your claim that "basketball was never as important to [Melo]": Isiah was just way more of a "killer" than Melo, both for better (more driven to win) and for worse (much more of a dirty SOB).

Those differences aside, though: they both fit the category of: college superstars who were overrated in the pros relative to their actual impact on winning ballgames. Both were good at piling up high PPG at low-to-moderate efficiency, which is one of the most typical areas in which players tend be overrated relative to their impact on wins.

Edit: on the efficiency count, Dantley was the anti-Melo in some ways. Melo was closer to average-ish efficiency than low (career .541 TS) but Dantley was incredible: the second most efficient high-volume scorer in NBA history at .617 TS (behind Curry .623, ahead of Durant .613, Barkley .612 and Harden .611) despite mostly not having the huge efficiency advantage of the three-ball. Yet he rarely gets name-checked among the all-time greats.
 
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JohnnyTheBone

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Regardless of how fans feel about Melo, he is essentially NBA royalty. His peers and the core NBA media mostly seem to adore him. I would not be surprised to see him make the HOF based on that and his undeniable offensive accomplishments.
Oh, he's a lead-pipe cinch Hall-Of-Famer, probably first ballot. Remember, Dino Radja is in the HOF. Melo is a no-doubter.
 

nighthob

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It’s not the NBA hall of fame, it’s the basketball hall of fame. Dino’s in there for his international career, where he led two Euroleague winners, winning the Cup MVP once, plus leading title winners in Greece, Italy, and Yugoslavia. I’m pretty sure he’s on FIBA’s top 50 all time Euroleague list. He had a really good international career.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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It’s not the NBA hall of fame, it’s the basketball hall of fame. Dino’s in there for his international career, where he led two Euroleague winners, winning the Cup MVP once, plus leading title winners in Greece, Italy, and Yugoslavia. I’m pretty sure he’s on FIBA’s top 50 all time Euroleague list. He had a really good international career.
Oh, I totally hear you. All the same, if Dino's in, then Carmelo's definitely in. He was an absolute stud in college, and has had a solid pro career.
 

Kliq

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Yeah, I noted the "never won anything" caveat. And I didn't mean to imply Melo was "similar" to Isiah — obviously they're totally different players, at totally different positions. Fwiw, I mostly agree with the subtext of your claim that "basketball was never as important to [Melo]": Isiah was just way more of a "killer" than Melo, both for better (more driven to win) and for worse (much more of a dirty SOB).

Those differences aside, though: they both fit the category of: college superstars who were overrated in the pros relative to their actual impact on winning ballgames. Both were good at piling up high PPG at low-to-moderate efficiency, which is one of the most typical areas in which players tend be overrated relative to their impact on wins.

Edit: on the efficiency count, Dantley was the anti-Melo in some ways. Melo was closer to average-ish efficiency than low (career .541 TS) but Dantley was incredible: the second most efficient high-volume scorer in NBA history at .617 TS (behind Curry .623, ahead of Durant .613, Barkley .612 and Harden .611) despite mostly not having the huge efficiency advantage of the three-ball. Yet he rarely gets name-checked among the all-time greats.
Your strange fixation on Isiah aside, there are a lot of weird quirks with Melo's career. There was the report starting that between the end of the NCAA tournament and the NBA draft that he didn't even pick-up a basketball. He seemed content to play for a lousy Knicks team that outside of one solid season, was mainly a train wreck and Melo seemed fine with scoring a lot of points and being a star in NYC, during an era where his contemporaries were bulling their way to new teams in order to remain perpetual contenders. Then once he started to decline he was a disaster in multiple stops, and was pushed out of basketball. Why would someone who appears to be genuinely loved and respected by his peers be out of basketball, until washing up on a desperate Portland team?

How Melo has handled aging is an interesting glimpse into his career as a whole. On paper, Melo should be a great role player because even with diminished speed and athleticism, he is so talented he can bring a lot to the table, especially in a league that has gotten smaller. When he was a FA people would talk themselves into the idea that he could help a team because he could be a good rebounder, screener, corner three guy and help a team. The problem was that Melo wasn't interested in doing things like rebounding and setting screens and not being the go-to-guy. Sure he had the skills, but he was used to being the star and didn't seem interested in doing all of that hard stuff.

I do think that his time away from the NBA has maybe humbled him a bit and his run in Portland has been overrated by some and underrated by others. I've never really been a Melo fan, but it is more fun seeing him involved with a team again. If he gets hot in game against the Lakers and makes like, 8 three pointers and scores 30 points it will be a great moment.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Your strange fixation on Isiah aside, there are a lot of weird quirks with Melo's career. There was the report starting that between the end of the NCAA tournament and the NBA draft that he didn't even pick-up a basketball. He seemed content to play for a lousy Knicks team that outside of one solid season, was mainly a train wreck and Melo seemed fine with scoring a lot of points and being a star in NYC, during an era where his contemporaries were bulling their way to new teams in order to remain perpetual contenders. Then once he started to decline he was a disaster in multiple stops, and was pushed out of basketball. Why would someone who appears to be genuinely loved and respected by his peers be out of basketball, until washing up on a desperate Portland team?

How Melo has handled aging is an interesting glimpse into his career as a whole. On paper, Melo should be a great role player because even with diminished speed and athleticism, he is so talented he can bring a lot to the table, especially in a league that has gotten smaller. When he was a FA people would talk themselves into the idea that he could help a team because he could be a good rebounder, screener, corner three guy and help a team. The problem was that Melo wasn't interested in doing things like rebounding and setting screens and not being the go-to-guy. Sure he had the skills, but he was used to being the star and didn't seem interested in doing all of that hard stuff.

I do think that his time away from the NBA has maybe humbled him a bit and his run in Portland has been overrated by some and underrated by others. I've never really been a Melo fan, but it is more fun seeing him involved with a team again. If he gets hot in game against the Lakers and makes like, 8 three pointers and scores 30 points it will be a great moment.
I agree with all of this, your strange fixation with Melo aside. :)
 

Kliq

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Hard to think of a guy in the NBA who gets more out of his talent than Donovan Mitchell.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Doris Burke is the best in-game basketball announcer/analyst for any of the national networks and it's not particularly close.
 

Kliq

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I feel bad for Utah, without Conley and Bogdanovich they really don't have the horses to compete with the other offenses in the West. You can't play Jordan Clarkson 40 minutes in a playoff game and expect to win.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I know Brooklyn is unlikely to steal a game from Toronto, but it would be nice if they could at least make them break a sweat for a minute. Yeesh.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Most Points in NBA Playoff History

63: Michael Jordan
61: Elgin Baylor
57: Donovan Mitchell
56: Michael Jordan
56: Charles Barkley
56: Wilt Chamberlain
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Most Points in NBA Playoff History

63: Michael Jordan
61: Elgin Baylor
57: Donovan Mitchell
56: Michael Jordan
56: Charles Barkley
56: Wilt Chamberlain
I’d be surprised if dame isn’t on that list at least twice by the end of the playoffs
 

Soxy

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I know Brooklyn is unlikely to steal a game from Toronto, but it would be nice if they could at least make them break a sweat for a minute. Yeesh.
Ask and you shall receive. Lead down to single digits with 3 minutes left in the third.
 

mauf

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Why does Rick Carlisle always look like he just smelled a particularly pungent fart?
 

JCizzle

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I just about checked out of this game when LAC was up by a bunch and Luka was out. Not that runs are shocking, but I dont expect a competitive series from Dallas
 

HomeRunBaker

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I just about checked out of this game when LAC was up by a bunch and Luka was out. Not that runs are shocking, but I dont expect a competitive series from Dallas
Clippers became complacent after knocking down a bunch of 3’s early as if it was a 5-minute game. Strange approach to a playoff game.

Mavs now on pace for a 36-point blowout.Just your standard 48-18 run from down 16.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Clippers became complacent after knocking down a bunch of 3’s early as if it was a 5-minute game. Strange approach to a playoff game.

Mavs now on pace for a 36-point blowout.Just your standard 48-18 run from down 16.
These are just your random (HRB patented) NBA runs but I agree that the Clippers appear to be taking this lightly. Dallas can win this series if things break right.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Oh crap!!! What an awful management of the game by these officials worth the double T knowing Porzongis already had a cheap one. Crazy!!! This is the stuff you see in China Super League Soccer!! Are any of Donaghy’s partners doing this game?
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Oh crap!!! What an awful management of the game by these officials worth the double T knowing Porzongis already had a cheap one. Crazy!!! This is the stuff you see in China Super League Soccer!! Are any of Donaghy’s partners doing this game?
That is some serious bullshit! Definitely not giving the Mavs stars as much leeway as the Clips. Great, so the NBA will rescind a technical retroactively, doesn't help now...