https://theathletic.com/5158280/2023/12/22/angels-trade-options-clayton-kershaw/?source=user_shared_articleRosenthal: What I’m hearing about the Angels’ trade chips, Clayton Kershaw’s market
Sox in on Teoscar.
Sox in on Teoscar.
What Happens Next if They Sign Teoscar?
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Means the plan is for at least one of Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, or I suppose Yoshida to be dealt for a starter.
That would be my assumption as well. Having said that, they still have room for a DH.
Probably but not necessarily. Rafaela could start the season in AAA or at 2B, and you could have an OF/DH crew of Yoshida-Duran-O’Neill-Hernandez-Abreu, no?
100% you could and I really like that group outside of the fact there isn’t a real go getter in center in that group. Maybe that’s mitigated a little of you still have Rafaela?
But the defense is as much of a priority as starting pitching in my mind. It was just so horrible that solving it will help solve the pitching.
Too true. I imagine some team would value and pay him more to play the outfield. He still seems ok out there (0 OAA in ‘23). But who knows.
Maybe it’s Yoshida to DH, but Breslow said in some report they didn’t want to do that.
I don't get it. A 4 year decline in wrc+ and ops, his lowest numbers since his rookie season, bad defense. Unless the move is "trade all our other OF and feel desperate" I'm not seeing the appeal.
View: https://twitter.com/marino_pepen/status/1738536008595964381?s=46
Marino says Teoscar is looking for 4 years $70-$80M. Not that it means much because Marino…
Marino says Teoscar is looking for 4 years $70-$80M. Not that it means much because Marino…
Yea, we have to be officially done with Pepen. To the point we may should not allow his post to be on this board. He read the Rosenthal article like the rest of us and just threw out a number.
He is just making it up.
Yes I’ve heard stories about him this week that puts him on the list of people not to reference on this site.
His home away splits are gigantic, he put up a wRC+ of +124 away from Seattle last year. He historically crushes at Fenway.
The defensive stuff I’m seeing on stat cast reads for more like an average defender with a plus arm vs “bad defense”
Also, it’s a chance to get a power right handed hitter without giving up prospects and there is no QO attached.
Teoscar had an 830 ops on the road last year, plays every day, and is four years younger than Duvall. He’s not the hitter Turner was but he’d be a safer bet than many. If you figure the younger players collectively contribute more, then Teoscar and TON to replace Duvall, Verdugo, and Turner would be a good start. And I don’t know if this would prevent Turner from coming back. Sign Merrifield too and that’s a nice lineup.
The other thought I’ve had is they may like a second baseman who’s left handed and adding a righty like Teoscar helps open that position up to either hand.
Those are indeed nice looking Fenway splits, but the last three years look like this…with a very steep three year drop in OPS due to steep drops in both slugging and OBP.
edit - fing tables. I’ll try later from laptop. Short version is I want to play the kids unless they get traded for pitching.
He has a career .981 OPS against the Red Sox and a career .950 OPS at Fenway Park. Couldn't be any connection to Red Sox pitching, could there?
There are also rather small sample sizes involved: in the first five of his six years playing in Seattle, he only appeared in a total of 60 games; whereas, in his seven-year career, he played in only 45 games at Fenway. While Fenway may be a good fit for Teoscar, it doesn't take many extra-base hits in limited plate appearances to jack up a player's OPS (he has 2 doubles and 8 HRs in 16 hits against the Nationals for a 1.407 OPS).
I’m talking myself more and more into Hernandez, if he can be had on something in the 4/$75m range.
Oddly enough, his defensive numbers improved last season going to Seattle, which seems counter intuitive with it being such a large park. However, he was playing next to the ridiculous range of Julio Rodriguez in CF as opposed to Randall Grichuk (21) and a lessened George Springer (‘22).
Anecdotally, this makes me think of a player that is decent, and possibly a little above average if his area to cover is lessened (Rodriguez) and therefore would make him a good fit next to Rafaela and his plus, plus range and defense in CF - even in Fenway’s large RF (based on his year in Seattle).
Also, the Red Sox are going to have to pretty massively overpay in terms of “other” hitting prospects to garner a starting pitcher of any consequence. With a team like the Marlins, there is zero chance they’d do a Mayer and Duran for Luzardo deal. Would they consider something like Mayer, Duran and one of Bleis, Yorke or Abreu for Luzardo and the Sox taking on the rest of AGarcia’s deal - I think they’d at least consider that.
He then leaves them money for not Monty or Snell, but probably an Imanaga / Stroman / Giolito type, and signing someone like Rosario.
Rotation becomes a much more desirable situation of Bello, Luzardo, “Stromam”, Crawford, Pivetta.
Lineup is now more balanced with something like L Yoshida - DH, R Story - SS, L Devers - 3b, R Hernandez - RF, L Casas - 1b, Garcia / Abreu - LF, R Wong - C, R Rosario - 2b, R Rafaela - CF. (I assume Miami would prefer Bleis or Yorke to Abreu).
Honestly - at a certain level I’m trying to find any path toward getting a young, top half of the rotation starter in a trade, and that is highly unrealistic, but might as well hope, right. Better than the alternative of running back anything resembling the last 4 seasons starting rotation junk.
Oddly enough, his defensive numbers improved last season going to Seattle, which seems counter intuitive with it being such a large park. However, he was playing next to the ridiculous range of Julio Rodriguez in CF as opposed to Randall Grichuk (21) and a lessened George Springer (‘22).
Anecdotally, this makes me think of a player that is decent, and possibly a little above average if his area to cover is lessened (Rodriguez) and therefore would make him a good fit next to Rafaela and his plus, plus range and defense in CF - even in Fenway’s large RF (based on his year in Seattle).
Also, the Red Sox are going to have to pretty massively overpay in terms of “other” hitting prospects to garner a starting pitcher of any consequence. With a team like the Marlins, there is zero chance they’d do a Mayer and Duran for Luzardo deal. Would they consider something like Mayer, Duran and one of Bleis, Yorke or Abreu for Luzardo and the Sox taking on the rest of AGarcia’s deal - I think they’d at least consider that.
He then leaves them money for not Monty or Snell, but probably an Imanaga / Stroman / Giolito type, and signing someone like Rosario.
Rotation becomes a much more desirable situation of Bello, Luzardo, “Stromam”, Crawford, Pivetta.
Lineup is now more balanced with something like L Yoshida - DH, R Story - SS, L Devers - 3b, R Hernandez - RF, L Casas - 1b, Garcia / Abreu - LF, R Wong - C, R Rosario - 2b, R Rafaela - CF. (I assume Miami would prefer Bleis or Yorke to Abreu).
Honestly - at a certain level I’m trying to find any path toward getting a young, top half of the rotation starter in a trade, and that is highly unrealistic, but might as well hope, right. Better than the alternative of running back anything resembling the last 4 seasons starting rotation junk.
Mayer, Duran, and Bleis for Luzardo would be initially considered as one of the worst trades of the last decade. It would be a panic move with zero logic or resolve behind it.
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If we want a RH outfielder who has proven he likes to hit at Fenway and has a gold glove I’d rather re-sign Adam Duvall. Should take fewer years and less $.
I’m pretty underwhelmed by the idea of signing Teoscar Herndez, especially if it’s 4 yrs and $70-80m.
If we want a RH outfielder who has proven he likes to hit at Fenway and has a gold glove I’d rather re-sign Adam Duvall. Should take fewer years and less $.
4/$75m is way more than I’d spend on Teo. I was thinking like 2/$30m, but maybe I’m wrong about his market.
Duran or Cedanne is definitely going if Hernandez is getting signed. Probably in a package.
Both of them have some incredible dynamic ceilings but Cedanne’s youth makes him both the more valuable.
Both of them have some incredible dynamic ceilings but Cedanne’s youth makes him both the more valuable.
Can't Cedanne just start in AAA instead?
FWIW, I'm fine trading him if other teams value him, because I'm skeptical of his hitting.
Yes, he could easily start the season in AAA, or at 2B. Abreu could also start the season in AAA. Yoshida could DH. I don’t think a potential singing of Hernandez definitely suggests anything- lots of different directions the team could go in with the personnel they have.
I wouldn’t move him anyway, but with that contract you aren’t getting any value back.
Yoshida right now is worth almost nothing. Yoshida stretching his April-July performance into six months is incredibly valuable. Trading him now would be an awful move.
I want to believe but I feel like (1) devers has a long track record of being bad in the field (flashes of good stuff but sloppy) and (2) Yoshi is not a young player, just new to mlb - not sure he becomes good defensively
A low value on a player can recover, but it also can go even lower.
If he stays, I hope they figure something out to get more weeks of good Yoshida than bad weeks. If he is dealt away, so be it as I can imagine the roster spot and money invested elsewhere.
Is anyone concerned about Teoscar’s SLG trend? He’s gone from 579 (shortened 2020, to be fair) to 524 to 491 to 435. Power helps, but 38 bb / 211 k is sobering.
If it’s a 3 year deal and moves Yoshida to DH, I’m down.
If it’s a 3 year deal and moves Yoshida to DH, I’m down.
At least some of that is the move to Seattle. Road SLG was .486. Not amazing, but not horrible.
I had a memory that he was better in the second half, but in actuality, he really just had two good months: June and August. His April and July were barely playable. I think he might just be streaky. Still, I’ve mentally penciled him in for Boston next year, and I don’t hate it.
Good point about the move to Seattle. They really need some power, get him and Drury and I think the lineup would look pretty solid. The lack of walks and the ton of strikeouts makes me feel like he’s a player that will probably be frustrating, though.
Don’t mean you specifically, but for anyone posting tweets by this anonymous account, can you find what they’re referencing? “Boston Strong” doesn’t do any reporting.
The real outlier there seems to be his home splits the one year in Seattle.
This isn’t a rumor, but with YY off the board, I wonder if Breslow’s Plan B is to go heavy on short-term guys to bridge to the Mayer-Roman-Teel era. It’d try some fans’ patience, but I think it’s defensible. I know that’s what Bloom was trying to do, by appearances at least, but maybe Craig and Bailey are better at it? Teoscar for three, Drury has a year left (or Tim Anderson on a pillow contract), Stroman for three, Giolito for one with an option… probably still facing long odds in the AL East, I might be talking myself out of this.
Teoscar also makes sense because he represents something that is missing through the system and that’s corner right handed power. He fits in very well with the Nucleus of Devers, Casas, Duran + the Big3 minor leaguers.
It’s also why I hope they are very aggressive with Imanaga. They need good starters this year, next year, and the year after that and that and etc.
It’s also why I hope they are very aggressive with Imanaga. They need good starters this year, next year, and the year after that and that and etc.
LOL.... Hernandez has more consistent power numbers.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hernate01.shtml
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