Lol only reason Jimmy knows is because he got outtampered.
Lol only reason Jimmy knows is because he got outtampered.
Evan Turner seems like a legitimately funny guyEvan Turner
@thekidet
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3h
Portland, buy Jrue out so he can sign to the Celtics I'm trying to see something real quick
This trade also not only takes Lillard off the market as a potential whale that Riley could chase but Giannis as well.I may have missed this earlier in the thread. But, I love reading that the Blazers never re-engaged the Heat in substantive trade talks after their initial conversations in July and just traded Lillard to the Bucks without talking to Miami again. I mean, who knows how true that is because I'm sure these beat reporters are probably constantly played by their sources, but still. If this was Danny Ainge instead of Pat Riley, I can only imagine the kind of shrieking "DANNY SHOULD HAVE PICKED UP THE PHONE AND MADE IT HAPPEN!" type of reaction. The reads to me like Riley overplayed his hand, even with Lillard and his agent trying to force it. Extremely funny and good result in that respect. Terrifying and bad in the sense that the Bucks will probably be better than they were last year.
This was my thought for a Jrue destination. Its kind of an elegant solution for all involved except maybe CP3.Jrue to Golden State would be a good get for them. Moody/Kuminga + CP3 for Holiday?
Probably because the Celtics didn't have as much to offer since they weren't able to give up their 2nd or 3rd best player in the trade. Also, Portland should bet that Milwaukee will be terrible in 28-30. Celtics not as guaranteed to be awful.I'm disappointed that Brad didn't make that happen and wonder how hard he tried. And if the Cs were in the mix, what the sticking points might have been.
Portland can reroute CP3 and get some additional assets. Or hold onto his expiring until the deadlineThis was my thought for a Jrue destination. Its kind of an elegant solution for all involved except maybe CP3.
My guess is that the Heat simply didn't have enough to beat this offer---I imagine they made clear Bam/Butler aren't going anywhere and I honestly don't think they hav a path to giving more value than Portland got in this deal.I may have missed this earlier in the thread. But, I love reading that the Blazers never re-engaged the Heat in substantive trade talks after their initial conversations in July and just traded Lillard to the Bucks without talking to Miami again. I mean, who knows how true that is because I'm sure these beat reporters are probably constantly played by their sources, but still. If this was Danny Ainge instead of Pat Riley, I can only imagine the kind of shrieking "DANNY SHOULD HAVE PICKED UP THE PHONE AND MADE IT HAPPEN!" type of reaction. That reads to me like Riley overplayed his hand, even with Lillard and his agent trying to force it. Extremely funny and good result in that respect. Terrifying and bad in the sense that the Bucks will probably be better than they were last year.
Yeah, those Bucks picks are pretty valuable. Factor in Jrue and it would literally have been impossible for Miami to beat that offer without including Bam/Butler.My guess is that the Heat simply didn't have enough to beat this offer---I imagine they made clear Bam/Butler aren't going anywhere and I honestly don't think they hav a path to giving more value than Portland got in this deal.
And it's very easy to believe the Heat, backed by dame and his agent and whatever tampering surely occurred, believed they could hold the line and still get the player too
More like Gimmie Butler
Dang, usually I ignore all trade speculation, but that sure does make some sense. And for Portland they could then flip CP3 as there would still be a market for him...Jrue to Golden State would be a good get for them. Moody/Kuminga + CP3 for Holiday?
when does jrues contract expire? I thought the cp3 thing was to acquire someone competent but more importantly his contract ends soon thus mitigating their impending cap doom.Dang, usually I ignore all trade speculation, but that sure does make some sense. And for Portland they could then flip CP3 as there would still be a market for him...
Do the Heat have enough to get Jrue? It seems like the Blazers just don’t like what the Heat have to offerReally dreading Jrue possibly ending up in Miami.
They're already such a grind to play, adding Jrue will soup that up to another level.
Makes sense for GS for sure, Jrue is way better than CP3 at this point…but do Moody/Kuminga have a lot of value?Dang, usually I ignore all trade speculation, but that sure does make some sense. And for Portland they could then flip CP3 as there would still be a market for him...
I think you're totally right on both counts. I posted that link because I'm amused by the weird double standard Danny Ainge was held to during his tenure here when things like this happen to every PBO/GM in the league. And, of course, Danny certainly never had the benefit of weather/food/night life/taxes that give the Heat an advantage and Danny never had the cheat code of stars demanding specifically to come to Boston.My guess is that the Heat simply didn't have enough to beat this offer---I imagine they made clear Bam/Butler aren't going anywhere and I honestly don't think they hav a path to giving more value than Portland got in this deal.
And it's very easy to believe the Heat, backed by dame and his agent and whatever tampering surely occurred, believed they could hold the line and still get the player too
Who knows, but not liking what the Heat have for Dame could be a totally different thing than what Portland is willing to accept for Jrue. It's not like the trade with Milwaukee was Dame for Jrue straight up.Do the Heat have enough to get Jrue? It seems like the Blazers just don’t like what the Heat have to offer
This year then a PO for 24/25 at $37 million. I can't see many reasons for him not to exercise that option, especially with how the middle is getting squeezed with the capwhen does jrues contract expire? I thought the cp3 thing was to acquire someone competent but more importantly his contract ends soon thus mitigating their impending cap doom.
Does trying hard mean giving up Rob? Or Jaylen Brown?I can see why Vegas now has the Bucks at title favorites. Had the Cs ended up with Tatum, Brown, Porzingis and Dame, they would have been viewed thusly. I'm disappointed that Brad didn't make that happen and wonder how hard he tried. And if the Cs were in the mix, what the sticking points might have been.
And I hate that my opinion is a bit like Perk's.
Was Smart still the C's best defender? Felt like his D fell off quite a bit last year... and that he improvised a lot in the playoffs on key possessions in an attempt to force things to happen rather than play solid team defense.I think it's really interesting that two of what Lowe calls "inner circle" NBA contenders have traded their best defensive player in search for more offense. It's particularly interesting in MIL's case since the team was kind of mess before Jrue got there, and at the very least BOS got a rim protector they kind of needed.
I don't know what defense Adrian Griffin was going to install in MIL but he doesn't seem to have a ton of options anymore.
In overall value, it's a lot closer than most people think. But...in fit for Milwaukee, this is gold. Giannis is the a top transition player in the world and has developed more half-court ability, but they're still sometimes a bit of a slog when teams can take away transition (e.g. playoffs). Jrue doesn't help there, but Dame does bigtime. Man is an iso god when things need creating. This is great for them.I don't see the delta between Jrue and Lillard as THAT large.
Oh my god, this is glorious. Awwww, are your widdle feelings hurt because you and Dame tampered to force a move and it didn't work out the way you wanted it to?
This is my read. Jimmy loves a good troll job.I think Butler has a pretty good sense of humor.
Yeah, they match up much better than the Cs as they have the big contracts to send them to salary match Jrue (Lowry or Herro). Seems like thr Cs would need to attach either Horford or Timelord to Brogdon make the salaries match - and it’s not clear it would be wise to weaken their front court like that..Really dreading Jrue possibly ending up in Miami.
They're already such a grind to play, adding Jrue will soup that up to another level.
You think Lillard is only a modest upgrade over Holliday? That surprises me. I am not energetic enough right now to do competent research but my sense was that Liilard was way ahead of Holliday and many others of their ilk. But maybe I underestimate Holliday.Does trying hard mean giving up Rob? Or Jaylen Brown?
I don't really get this trade for the Bucks. RAPTOR and DARKO both have Jrue either above Lillard or very close behind. I don't recall ever watching the Bucks last year and thinking you know what this team needs, a modest upgrade of Jrue Holliday. Especially a modest upgrade that costs them definitely. It all looks like rearranging deck chairs than making the team all that much better.
They aren’t trading Rob. The Cs have been smart about balancing the roster, they aren’t going to create an obvious deficiency just to add another guard. I do love Jrue in Boston, just not for Rob.I bet Miami would love Jrue.
Portland doesn't seem excited about what they can offer but maybe for Jrue it's enough.
I'd love to package Brogdon, picks, and flotsam for Jrue. Less excited about losing Rob, especially with KP and Al as the only other good bigs. Feels like we need to keep as many of these injury prone bigs as we can in hopes a couple are left standing at the end.
The reason Rob is necessary is because they can't match Jrue's salary for just flotsam - any offer would need to include both Brogdon and either Rob or Al. Rob over Al lowers the cost in draft picks but adding either would weaken the front court.They aren’t trading Rob. The Cs have been smart about balancing the roster, they aren’t going to create an obvious deficiency just to add another guard. I do love Jrue in Boston, just not for Rob.
The lesson the league is apparently taking from DEN is that in the current NBA offense wins championship (not an original thought; I've heard from other people). DEN is littered with not great defenders, but you know what? They don't need to be great defenders when they have a basically unstoppable PnR duo - Murray and Jokic. Basically, the calculation is that DEN's defense against the other team's offense is better than the other team's defense against DEN's offense because DEN's offense is so good.The only caveat here for me is that Jrue can't end up in Miami.
I've never worried much about the C's being able to stop teams on the defensive end come playoff time. For me, most of the C's bad losses in the playoffs come because of their inability to not deal with the Jrue's/Lowry's/Butlers of the world when the C's are on offense.
Jrue was a pest of the highest order on defense, and then he was backed up in rim protection by Giannis and Brook. I suspect the C's, if they actually get coached correctly, will fucking hunt Dame come playoff time in PnR's with KP and Brown/Tatum. Simply put, Dame Lillard cannot guard anyone on our team coming off a pick. Nobody.
Meanwhile, the C's still have a roster than can switch anyone at any time on the defensive end.
I am not seeing how this makes the Bucks anything other than a juggernaut in the regular season, and probably the #1 seed, but I'm not seeing it in the playoffs.
Maybe I should have said, "Has the best defensive reputation". At any rate, point is that two contenders just traded great defense for (hopefully in the Cs case) great offense. Will be interesting to see how it works out.Was Smart still the C's best defender? Felt like his D fell off quite a bit last year... and that he improvised a lot in the playoffs on key possessions in an attempt to force things to happen rather than play solid team defense.
Porzyingis should be an upgrade for sure on offense.. but also allows you to play Rob and Al less minutes which should also help... while also allowing White to get more time. I wonder how much of a downgrade White is on D.. and how much any deficiency is taken up by his ability to bring the ball up faster.
To add to this, the only Nuggets player who was considered a really bad defender was MPJ and he stepped up his defense pretty dramatically in the playoffs. Aaron Gordon is a fantastic defender, KCP is very good.I'm not sure that it's just defense vs. offense, although that's definitely a component. Being able to run a halfcourt offense is pretty key in the playoffs, and that's really been a drain on Milwaukee. Losing Jrue is obviously not great, but gaining a guy who's basically a one-man halfcourt offense is huge. Nevermind the PNR possibilities. Not 100% sure that it's a winning bet, but it's understandable why Milwaukee thinks that it is.
On a related note, Jrue's career playoff TS% as a Buck (in 1566 minutes, on 23.0 USG) was .476 (.482, .461, .491 in their three playoff runs). Elite as Jrue is defensively, that's tough to overcome from your 2nd/3rd option. If not for Kevin Durant's "big-ass foot," I feel like Jrue would be taking a lot more heat for his offensive ineptitude in the playoffs.I'm not sure that it's just defense vs. offense, although that's definitely a component. Being able to run a halfcourt offense is pretty key in the playoffs, and that's really been a drain on Milwaukee. Losing Jrue is obviously not great, but gaining a guy who's basically a one-man halfcourt offense is huge. Nevermind the PNR possibilities. Not 100% sure that it's a winning bet, but it's understandable why Milwaukee thinks that it is.
Jrue makes $36.8 this year which means we'd need to send out $29.4 in salary. Brogdon is $22.5, meaning we're less than $7M short. You can accomplish that with flotsam, like Pritchard ($4.0) + guarantee Kornet ($2.4) + literally any end-of-bencher. Dame ($45.6 this year) was quite another story.The reason Rob is necessary is because they can't match Jrue's salary for just flotsam - any offer would need to include both Brogdon and either Rob or Al. Rob over Al lowers the cost in draft picks but adding either would weaken the front court.
Murray isn't known as a good defender. Jokic isn't considered a good individual defender (though better in help and as a rim protector). DEN I believe was 15th in defensive rating last year.To add to this, the only Nuggets player who was considered a really bad defender was MPJ and he stepped up his defense pretty dramatically in the playoffs. Aaron Gordon is a fantastic defender, KCP is very good.
Maybe the calculus has swung more towards very good offense than previous years but I don't think it's incredibly dramatic. It's still incredibly tough to win consistently in the playoffs if you have a player that is a complete defensive liability that can be hunted mercilessly.
We're above the apron, it's 110% +250k. Celtics have to send out at least 33.23M.Jrue makes $36.8 this year which means we'd need to send out $29.4 in salary. Brogdon is $22.5, meaning we're less than $7M short. You can accomplish that with flotsam, like Pritchard ($4.0) + guarantee Kornet ($2.4) + literally any end-of-bencher. Dame ($45.6 this year) was quite another story.
Whether "Brogdon + Pritch + picks + flotsam" is anything close to Portland's best offer for Jrue is another story. But we can make the offer without having to include Rob or Al.