2023-24 Celtics

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,842
Melrose, MA
The insane on/off’s slowly disappearing lol.
Last night, all of the starters were "minus" while all of the bench was "plus." Tatum was a -5 in 44 minutes, meaning the Celtics were a +8 in the 9 minutes when he was on the bench. Hauser, Porzingis, and Brown were all in the -20s.

Sunday night, Tatum was a -1 in 35 minutes, meaning the Celtics were +3 during the 13 minutes when he was out. More or less a wash.

Against the Raptors, Tatum was a -4 in 37 minutes, meaning the Celtics were +7 during the 11 minutes when he was out.

Against Philly, Tatum was a +2 in 38 minutes, the Celtics were +8 in the 10 minutes when he was out.

Against the Knicks, Tatum was a +12 in 39 minutes, the Celtics were +4 in the 9 minutes when he was out. Another wash.

You have to go all the way back to the prior Raptors game to find one where Tatum on outdid Tatum off: he played 34 minutes and was a +42, while the Celtics were a -19 in the 14 minutes he was out.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,842
Before last night, Cs were 22/22 in clutch time FTs. They missed 3 last night.

They also missed 10 FTs combined (18/28) while CHA went 16/17. I haven't watched the game but this seems like on a normal shooting night, the Cs would have blown out CHA.
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
5,371
Lynn
Last night, all of the starters were "minus" while all of the bench was "plus." Tatum was a -5 in 44 minutes, meaning the Celtics were a +8 in the 9 minutes when he was on the bench. Hauser, Porzingis, and Brown were all in the -20s.

Sunday night, Tatum was a -1 in 35 minutes, meaning the Celtics were +3 during the 13 minutes when he was out. More or less a wash.

Against the Raptors, Tatum was a -4 in 37 minutes, meaning the Celtics were +7 during the 11 minutes when he was out.

Against Philly, Tatum was a +2 in 38 minutes, the Celtics were +8 in the 10 minutes when he was out.

Against the Knicks, Tatum was a +12 in 39 minutes, the Celtics were +4 in the 9 minutes when he was out. Another wash.

You have to go all the way back to the prior Raptors game to find one where Tatum on outdid Tatum off: he played 34 minutes and was a +42, while the Celtics were a -19 in the 14 minutes he was out.
Any lineup with KP or Jaylen was a disaster last night, they just had really tough games on both ends.

74084
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
5,371
Lynn
Yep. The 17-point lead in the 2nd quarter told us where we are, in general. The second half told us we were on a back-to-back. That and our free-throw %, I suppose.

The only part that drove me crazy was Jaylen shooting an early-clock, heat-check 3 with a defender draped on him in our penultimate possession of regulation. No attempt to move the ball or find a good shot. Oh hey, we're still up 2, let's see if I can be the hero tonight, what could possibly go wrong? Well, you got your answer, JB.

If we run our offense and it ends up with Jaylen taking a good shot and he misses, meh, nothing to learn from that, really. But with the talent on this team, we need to be smarter, because at some point the stakes will be higher. And all the talent in the world won't matter if you insist on playing into the defense's hands and taking the shot they want you to take. The back-to-back might make you miss, but it shouldn't change anything about your willingness to evaluate options and make the smart play.
74086
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,879
This comment Joe made post-game resonated with me:

"We were undisciplined in going to get defensive rebounds and blocking out."

If I had a "bad dream" reel of the first 14 games of the season, it would include players crashing through the Celtics for easy tip ins on offensive rebounds. They have to block out better. And what's with Kornet snagging only 3 rebounds in 19 minutes last night? I saw a number of balls squirt through his hands, which wasn't encouraging.
 

4 6 3 DP

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 24, 2001
2,381
When Jaylen decides he's going to get his, the other 4 guys should just head to the other end of the floor. It's who the player is.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,296
Pittsburgh, PA
Wow, that is some Mac Jones level decision making and vision right there ☹ Unfortunate because in the games I have watched I think Jaylen has improved a bit as a playmaker/passer - especially with KP. Fatigue can show up in different ways I guess.
I didn't think Jaylen stood out as bad last night, it's just that particular play that stuck in my craw. His role is a shot creator, that's what he's there to do, I just hope we're coaching him on that awareness because there really is room left between him and his ceiling, and a lot of it is in this decision-making category. He "is what he is going to be" with respect to his handle, probably, and his speed and strength should hold up into his early 30s, his shotmaking is clearly great, etc. But everyone can get better at the decision-making side if they're coachable, and it's a weakness he has moreso than the rest of the top 6 (who are not immune, just better).

I don't want to read too much into one play, especially given HRB's note about attributing last night to mental exhaustion as much as physical. That could well be. But it's a general thing about the Celtics this year: when we share the ball, we look unstoppable. When we exploit mismatches, even if it's an iso post play, we also look dominant. When we push in transition (helped by Jaylen more than anyone, probably) we kick butt. It's the ball-stopping tendencies in this team that will determine whether we are better relative to the league in April than we are today.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,317
Joe's leaning in to the "not playing hard enough" criticism:

“Regardless, we have to take something from each game,” Mazzulla said. “It’s our first overtime game. It’s our first time we’ve blown a lead. We have to go back and understand why we did. That comes from taking plays off and not finishing possessions. Credit to Charlotte for continuing to play hard the whole time.”
Not actually the first overtime game, but it's a long season already, I guess. "Taking plays off" is pretty rough.

As a side note, does it seem like maybe the level of coaching in the NBA is as high as it's been? I've been impressed on back-to-back nights with some scheming Memphis and Charlotte did to, first, take away the three in Memphis (many tips and steals on drive and kicks they saw coming, as one example), and then last night leaning into the Hayward-Tatum head-to-head until Tatum seemed to run out of gas at the end and hiding Melo on defense (whether the Cs were looking all that hard is difficult to say).

It just seems like there are way fewer "we do what we do" coaches nowadays and more individual game-planning, but maybe that's just everyone getting up for the Cs.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
6,016
Cultural hub of the universe
This comment Joe made post-game resonated with me:

"We were undisciplined in going to get defensive rebounds and blocking out."

If I had a "bad dream" reel of the first 14 games of the season, it would include players crashing through the Celtics for easy tip ins on offensive rebounds. They have to block out better. And what's with Kornet snagging only 3 rebounds in 19 minutes last night? I saw a number of balls squirt through his hands, which wasn't encouraging.
After last night's rebounding debacle they're 6th in the league in defensive rebounding %.
 

Strike4

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,919
Portland, Maine
On the plus side, in Q3 the second unit did a good job of holding the line against the Hornets' mostly first unit for an extended period of time. From their interactions it looked like Mazzulla kind of let Pritchard run the offense for awhile and after a rough start they extended the lead a bit. Not the biggest issue for this team, but having a cohesive second unit that can spell Tatum et al will be good for the long haul.

Not that it helped the starters last night...
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,280
I hope that Jaylen Brown starts to play a bit better more consistently. There are definitely some in the media in this town that are salivating over the prospect of roasting the highest paid player in the NBA for not deserving it, and I'd hate to get into a downward spiral of JB forcing his game to prove his worth, his play deteriorates, and we end up having to get rid of him next Summer.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
20,056
St. Louis, MO
I hope that Jaylen Brown starts to play a bit better more consistently. There are definitely some in the media in this town that are salivating over the prospect of roasting the highest paid player in the NBA for not deserving it, and I'd hate to get into a downward spiral of JB forcing his game to prove his worth, his play deteriorates, and we end up having to get rid of him next Summer.
He’s just got a really wide ceiling/floor gulf. Ceiling of top 12-15 NBA player, but has the floor of a rotation player. And it rears its head fairly often.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,164
This comment Joe made post-game resonated with me:

"We were undisciplined in going to get defensive rebounds and blocking out."

If I had a "bad dream" reel of the first 14 games of the season, it would include players crashing through the Celtics for easy tip ins on offensive rebounds. They have to block out better. And what's with Kornet snagging only 3 rebounds in 19 minutes last night? I saw a number of balls squirt through his hands, which wasn't encouraging.
Interesting - mine has a parade of uncontested 3s turning every opposing rando into Steph.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,762
Saint Paul, MN
I hope that Jaylen Brown starts to play a bit better more consistently. There are definitely some in the media in this town that are salivating over the prospect of roasting the highest paid player in the NBA for not deserving it, and I'd hate to get into a downward spiral of JB forcing his game to prove his worth, his play deteriorates, and we end up having to get rid of him next Summer.
Jaylen Brown is currently the 4th highest paid player on the Celtics. He is 41st in the league. He is projected to be the highest paid player in 2028.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,095
I hope that Jaylen Brown starts to play a bit better more consistently. There are definitely some in the media in this town that are salivating over the prospect of roasting the highest paid player in the NBA for not deserving it, and I'd hate to get into a downward spiral of JB forcing his game to prove his worth, his play deteriorates, and we end up having to get rid of him next Summer.
Yep, it ain't just the media though.

Tatum had as many turnovers (8) the other night as Jaylen had in game 7 last year. Last night, Jrue had 7 turnovers himself. When you filter out offensive fouls (which have been fucking absurd lately for the entire C's team, ticky tack shit), Jaylen is averaging 2.0 turnovers per game. 2.0. That's his lowest total since 2017-18 when he had a usage rate of around 22%. His defense (and the entire team's as a whole) has been excellent. If Sam Hauser doesn't go 1-9 on mostly wide open three's last night, we win going away. If the C's make 5 of the town free throws they missed, we win going away.

He's simply not shooting well. Guys go through ruts shooting the ball, but I have no qualms that Jaylen will get the mid range back going at some point. We also have no idea if he just played through a strained groin. His best grouping is with KP and White. In the 3 games without White this season, Jaylen is shooting 22/60 (36.6%) from the floor and 5-24 from deep (20.8%). In the other 10 games, Jaylen is shooting 47.6% from the floor and 38.6% from deep.

Something to watch, but I don't know how we're getting concerned. Holiday is not a 34.9% 3 point shooter, which is what he is now (last 3 seasons have been .392, .411, .384 and .365 for his career), KP went .367, .385 the last two seasons, is .358 for his career and he's currently at .333.

And all of this is on the road 9/14 games, and they are 11-3. This team isn't close to playing their best basketball yet, almost across the board, and they're still the best team in the NBA.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,296
Pittsburgh, PA
Jaylen Brown is currently the 4th highest paid player on the Celtics. He is 41st in the league. He is projected to be the highest paid player in 2028.
Jaylen Brown has the highest total guaranteed future dollars committed of any player in the league, i.e. total future contract value.

Yes, he's going to be leapfrogged by his own teammate soon, and by others as well. Yes, AAV matters, age matters, all the other stuff matters. But by that measure, as of right now, he has the most money coming to him of any basketball player, so calling him the "highest paid player" is not categorically wrong.
 
Last edited:

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,819
Last night, all of the starters were "minus" while all of the bench was "plus." Tatum was a -5 in 44 minutes, meaning the Celtics were a +8 in the 9 minutes when he was on the bench. Hauser, Porzingis, and Brown were all in the -20s.

Sunday night, Tatum was a -1 in 35 minutes, meaning the Celtics were +3 during the 13 minutes when he was out. More or less a wash.

Against the Raptors, Tatum was a -4 in 37 minutes, meaning the Celtics were +7 during the 11 minutes when he was out.

Against Philly, Tatum was a +2 in 38 minutes, the Celtics were +8 in the 10 minutes when he was out.

Against the Knicks, Tatum was a +12 in 39 minutes, the Celtics were +4 in the 9 minutes when he was out. Another wash.

You have to go all the way back to the prior Raptors game to find one where Tatum on outdid Tatum off: he played 34 minutes and was a +42, while the Celtics were a -19 in the 14 minutes he was out.
The biggest -2 of the night for Tatum was right after he made the three at the end of the game, on the very next Hornet possession, he was totally ball watching and let Hayward go right behind him for an easy back door layup. Just terrible, awful defense on a huge possession.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,317
Jaylen Brown has the highest total guaranteed future dollars committed of any player in the league, i.e. total future contract value.

Yes, he's going to be leapfrogged by his own teammate soon, and by others as well. Yes, AAV matters, age matters, all the other stuff matters. But by that measure, as of right now, he has the most money coming to him of any basketball player, so calling him the "highest paid player" is not categorically wrong.
It's not categorically wrong, but, for example, Jrue is the highest paid player on the Celtics this year, and no one seems to be referring to him as the "highest paid player" when criticizing his play. It's just weird that people keep calling Jaylen that, when there are many ways to see him as ... not that.

Feels that way but en masse they are still 7th best team in NBA in defending the three so far. Is the low assist rate (24th in assists/game) anything to worry about long term?
I think it's mostly just a function of the fact that Tatum is elite at blowing by people for layups and dunks and has a tendency to fire up step-back threes. Just 29% of his 2s are assisted (even Jaylen is at 42%), and just 54% of his threes, which is pretty low. Kristaps has been assisted on every single one of his made threes. Hauser 97%.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,789
Brian Barrett is on the Ringer network and only has 4,900 followers on X? Talk about underperforming.

I guess Jaylen shade is a way to goose those numbers but there is also a decent chance that Brown goes on a three game hot streak, gets his output more in line with his historical averages while old Brian is still searching for follower number 4,990.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,842
Melrose, MA
Brian Barrett is on the Ringer network and only has 4,900 followers on X? Talk about underperforming.

I guess Jaylen shade is a way to goose those numbers but there is also a decent chance that Brown goes on a three game hot streak, gets his output more in line with his historical averages while old Brian is still searching for follower number 4,990.
Zach Lowe is also throwing Jaylen shade.

http://m.espn.com/general/cast?id=10528553&wjb
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,726
Jaylen’s 1-12 from 3 in the last two games.

I really hate that they played him after the groin pull. He should have got the last 2 games off at a minimum.

And I am really surprised at the amount of talk of last nights game without highlighting how bad Holiday was specifically.

Yanking 2 consecutive free throws and turning the ball over 7 times is…no bueno
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,564
around the way
Jaylen’s 1-12 from 3 in the last two games.

I really hate that they played him after the groin pull. He should have got the last 2 games off at a minimum.

And I am really surprised at the amount of talk of last nights game without highlighting how bad Holiday was specifically.

Yanking 2 consecutive free throws and turning the ball over 7 times is…no bueno
You've been here long enough to know that when the team loses, it's Jaylen's fault.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,609
Somewhere
This comment Joe made post-game resonated with me:

"We were undisciplined in going to get defensive rebounds and blocking out.".
The rebounding was atrocious. You can chalk up free throws and shots to variance but the effort was down across the board (visible in the passing too) and you could see it. Long season and there’s a reason why some games are schedule losses.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,789
Zach Lowe is also throwing Jaylen shade.

http://m.espn.com/general/cast?id=10528553&wjb
Content creators gonna content create!

The Cs lost a game which I get is unforgivable for some but by most measures they are one of the league's elite teams thus far.

I get any failure to execute is grounds for firing a player "into the sun" but if Jaylen is so terrible, what is it costing the team? Where is the harm? Is the argument that they are undefeated if he plays better? What is this costing the Celtics and more importantly their suffering fans?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
Content creators gonna content create!

The Cs lost a game which I get is unforgivable for some but by most measures they are one of the league's elite teams thus far.

I get any failure to execute is grounds for firing a player "into the sun" but if Jaylen is so terrible, what is it costing the team? Where is the harm? Is the argument that they are undefeated if he plays better? What is this costing the Celtics and more importantly their suffering fans?
I do not agree with it, but the argument is likely, "Jaylen's act won't play when the competition gets stiffer." (In fact, given that the team is winning 80% of its games so far, that might be the *only* argument.) That NO team has all of its good players playing good at the same time all the time, every game, is of no moment to certain corners of the commentariat.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,119
Chelmsford, MA
Jaylen catches additional scrutiny because he makes the same mistakes over and over and over again. It’s very easy to write off high turnover games by Jrue or Tatum as variance because it very demonstrably is. Browns limitations are very plainly visible and it is hard to watch him once again have a loose dribble turnover while he needlessly handles the ball. Everyone has seen that movie and knows how it ends.

And Jaylen isn’t the reason they lost last night, other guys were far more at fault. I also agree that he shouldn’t be playing after tweaking his groin. But I dislike the “other guys make mistakes and don’t catch grief for it” point that is such an omnipresent whine these days. Tatum caught a lot of grief (rightly so) for consistently costing his team points while he gesticulated at refs pleading for foul calls that weren’t going to come. It’s far more similar to that than people who are just out to get Jaylen which seems to be the implication suggested by the half dozen or so of you who rush to Jaylen’s defense whenever a bad word is said about him.
 

CreightonGubanich

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,386
north shore, MA
I haven't seen anyone point this out, and I apologize if I missed it. But Jaylen's trying to go 2-for-1 here. Now, I think that's a bad decision at this point in the game, but it's an effort to make sure the Celtics get the last shot. He's probably wrong - it's probably more important to get one good shot. But, this is a strategic blunder rather than a shot selection, Jaylen-trying-to-be-the-hero blunder. Carry on.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,726
I’m one of the half dozen and you’ve made the point that he doesn’t catch additional grief a few times.

I completely disagree with pretty much everything in your post.

@DeJesus Built My Hotrod said it in the game thread…”familiarity breeds contempt”. I think that’s much more of the case than anything you wrote
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
8,883
Brian Barrett is on the Ringer network and only has 4,900 followers on X? Talk about underperforming.

I guess Jaylen shade is a way to goose those numbers but there is also a decent chance that Brown goes on a three game hot streak, gets his output more in line with his historical averages while old Brian is still searching for follower number 4,990.
In the crazy wide world of piping hot takes posting a sampling of stats seems to be about the temperature of congealed chowder on a cold granite countertop.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,842
Melrose, MA
I haven't seen anyone point this out, and I apologize if I missed it. But Jaylen's trying to go 2-for-1 here. Now, I think that's a bad decision at this point in the game, but it's an effort to make sure the Celtics get the last shot. He's probably wrong - it's probably more important to get one good shot. But, this is a strategic blunder rather than a shot selection, Jaylen-trying-to-be-the-hero blunder. Carry on.
He could have thrown one up for Porzingis to finish without significantly affecting time left on the clock, or looked to Pritchard who was more open.
 

bellowthecat

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2010
602
Massachusetts
I wonder how much the new 65 game requirement for All-NBA teams played into JB deciding whether to play or not after the slip. My first take was I felt pretty good about incentivizing players to play more games, but I may have to re-evaluate that position if it causes players to push through things that compromise their health later in the season.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,789
I do not agree with it, but the argument is likely, "Jaylen's act won't play when the competition gets stiffer." (In fact, given that the team is winning 80% of its games so far, that might be the *only* argument.) That NO team has all of its good players playing good at the same time all the time, every game, is of no moment to certain corners of the commentariat.
I think that you are correct - that seems to be the argument. While I am never one to outright dismiss the canaries cry its hard to take seriously here.

If I had to pick a culprit for the most recent and very damaging loss, it would be the fact that they were playing on the back end of a B2B in CLT and not Jaylen's early season struggles simply because of their record. If they start losing a bunch of games, maybe its time to get concerned. But they currently still have the best record in the league.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
1,339
I wonder how much the new 65 game requirement for All-NBA teams played into JB deciding whether to play or not after the slip. My first take was I felt pretty good about incentivizing players to play more games, but I may have to re-evaluate that position if it causes players to push through things that compromise their health later in the season.
He already got paid. He doesn’t need to make All-NBA this season.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,095
Jaylen catches additional scrutiny because he makes the same mistakes over and over and over again. It’s very easy to write off high turnover games by Jrue or Tatum as variance because it very demonstrably is. Browns limitations are very plainly visible and it is hard to watch him once again have a loose dribble turnover while he needlessly handles the ball. Everyone has seen that movie and knows how it ends.

And Jaylen isn’t the reason they lost last night, other guys were far more at fault. I also agree that he shouldn’t be playing after tweaking his groin. But I dislike the “other guys make mistakes and don’t catch grief for it” point that is such an omnipresent whine these days. Tatum caught a lot of grief (rightly so) for consistently costing his team points while he gesticulated at refs pleading for foul calls that weren’t going to come. It’s far more similar to that than people who are just out to get Jaylen which seems to be the implication suggested by the half dozen or so of you who rush to Jaylen’s defense whenever a bad word is said about him.
Weren't you the same guy that made this point in the Raptors game thread?

The same thread where, by my count, Jaylen had 5 nice things said about him over the course of the game, and probably a dozen shitty ones.

The same thread where Tatum had about a dozen posts "TATUM" "OMG TATUM" over and over again, and a few others that said "Tatum just doesn't have it tonight?"

Just a reminder, Brown was 9/14 from the field (3/5 from the line), had 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 turnovers, 23 points and a +4.

Tatum was 8/22 (1 for fucking 11 from 3), 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers, 17 points and a -4.

The C's won by 3.



Define "same mistakes over and over again." It's a basketball game, not advanced calculus. How many different mistakes can possibly be made? And how is a guy averaging 2.5 TO's a game (2.0 when you remove offensive fouls, or is that a mistake he makes over and over again) committing an egregious amount of loose ball turnovers "over and over and over again?"

The problem isn't that Jaylen is making the same mistakes over and over again. The problem is anytime Jaylen makes a mistake, this narrative ensues. As I type this post, Jaylen Brown has a turnover rate of 11.2%. Jrue is at 14.9, Horford is at 14.1, Tatum is at 12.3, and Jaylen is tied with Derrick White at 11.2%.

But let's talk about those same mistakes over and over and over again, in every thread, but ignore what's actually happening instead because you don't like folks defending Jaylen. Or let's talk about how Jrue and Tatum's turnover rates being higher than Jaylen's are about 'variance?"
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,275
Imaginationland
The frustrating part about this is that it's the kind of thing they can and do fix all the time in late game situations. How it didn't happen last night, I've no idea. Feels different than just getting a random call wrong.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,762
Saint Paul, MN
He could have thrown one up for Porzingis to finish without significantly affecting time left on the clock, or looked to Pritchard who was more open.
Meh. That pass into Porzingis was not an easy one, and wouldn't have been a "throw one up to finish". It would have taken at least a few more seconds off the clock. Maybe the pass to Pritchard would have worked, but LaMelo, who is a terrible defender but is long and lanky probably had a good chance of closing that out.

CHA got the rebound with 28.6 seconds left which is pretty damn good result in the 2 for 1 situation. The Bridges three was tightly contested and probably not a good shot, but it went in. Shit happens. Even more shit happens when you play pretty lousy throughout the whole game
 

dhellers

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2005
4,288
Silver Spring, Maryland
I think that you are correct - that seems to be the argument. While I am never one to outright dismiss the canaries cry its hard to take seriously here.

If I had to pick a culprit for the most recent and very damaging loss, it would be the fact that they were playing on the back end of a B2B in CLT and not Jaylen's early season struggles simply because of their record. If they start losing a bunch of games, maybe its time to get concerned. But they currently still have the best record in the league.
Let's not forget that "criminally underrated" DW may be an IMPORTANT cog to this machine (especially in short handed/short winded B2B)
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,424
Santa Monica
Last night was a carbon copy of a Celtic loss last year

It's not a shocker that the same guy that sat in Q4 last season is the same guy that's been missing in 2 OT losses this season

The Js (Jaylen, Jayson, Jrue) are ALL loose with the ball.

Derrick White cleans up a lot of their end-of-game mistakes.
 
Last edited:

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,789
Let's not forget that "criminally underrated" DW may be an IMPORTANT cog to this machine (especially in short handed/short winded B2B)
And that was a massive omission in my post. Great point.

Maybe the sky is falling - you can't rule it out. But you really need to sell it for a team that is 11-3 and looks like one of the most complete rotations in the league.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,276
And that was a massive omission in my post. Great point.

Maybe the sky is falling - you can't rule it out. But you really need to sell it for a team that is 11-3 and looks like one of the most complete rotations in the league.
Celtics are 9-1 with their full starting lineup with only L being a road loss to Philly by 3 points. Every game where they remain healthy is a win for me, regardless of outcome.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,488
View: https://twitter.com/taylorcsnow/status/1727076575143673923



That's quite the fuck-up at a critical point in the game.
My memory is that the NBA switched to league-employed clock operators after some similar completely blown end of game situation.

If so, last night's should be fired, full stop. Either they are fully incompetent, or they are a "homer" and either way, that's not acceptable for that job. There simply is no other interpretation.

I also think Joe should have done more---that is a situation where he should be on the court daring him to T him up and forcing them to look at a replay. Those extra seconds are critical; you can't do that unless you are 100%, absolutely, incontrovertibly correct and he was there and it is reviewable.