Basically to keep the MLE open so that they could offer it to Matisse Thybulle, is my guess.
Grant Williams traded to Dallas
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Kornet, Hauser and Pritchard are very decent regular season depth, but we could really use one more guy who can be trusted in the playoffs. White, Brogdon, Brown, Tatum, TL, KP, Horford. That's a reasonable 7 man playoff rotation, but three of those guys are major injury risks and a fourth will be 38 by the time the finals roll around. The offseason isn't over yet (and then we'll have the trading deadline and the buyout market), but we've now lost three players who probably would have been in our top nine. Our only real addition is a guy who, much higher ceiling aside, has played 60+ games just once in the last six years.
Why not? They're giving up a player and a pick swap for a guy they could just sign to an offer sheet they know we don't want to match.
For those concerned about 2 Fragiles + an OLD upfront, I hear ya, but the season doesn't begin for 3 months. I imagine Brad will not start the season with a 10-man roster.
Players of Interest:
Kenrich Williams
Kyle Anderson
Jaden McDaniels
Daniel Gafford
Jarred Vanderbilt
Christian Koloko
Pipe Dreams:
Isaiah Hartenstein
Royce O'Neale
Nic Claxton
Players of Interest:
Kenrich Williams
Kyle Anderson
Jaden McDaniels
Daniel Gafford
Jarred Vanderbilt
Christian Koloko
Pipe Dreams:
Isaiah Hartenstein
Royce O'Neale
Nic Claxton
Plenty of reporting said they weren't going past a certain (much lower) number in the matching, so they really had no asset at all to trade, apart from inserting themselves in a S&T and hoping for something back. For a guy who had very little role in the playoffs and less of one going forward. Everyone knew the Celtics weren't keeping him. They essentially bluffed their way into some 2nd round picks.
I'm with you PKB. I liked Grant and thought he brought attitude and toughness with a dash of misplaced BS and a big mouth and at times a nice corner 3. BUT CJM buried him and iMO stunted his growth and VALUE.
So Brad gets to turn a couple of 2s into gold. NBA alchemy.
Is what it is.
Underwhelmed.
No team was thinking "oh I was gonna pay Grant Williams, but he got sent to the bench while dealing with a hand injury... best not" This was Grant's value. He's a good but not elite defender, who can hit 3s, but isn't a threat elsewhere on offense and isn't going to take (or make) many contested 3s. 4/53 is basically what we offered him reportedly during the season.
This is Grant's expected value, thing is... we upgraded our frontcourt since then and Jaylen made All-NBA, so 4/53 for the 8th man (and 4th big) was too pricey.
But they are at 14 players, not 10 (or 13 if you don't count Champagnie, which looks to be the only non-guaranteed) and they haven't signed Walsh yet. The roster is very close to full. There's gotta be a trade coming because the team somehow feels thin all around right now.
Something is better then nothing, but “where every thread ends in multiple future second round picks” just doesn’t have the same ring to it…
The other part of this is, in conjunction with the Marcus goodbye, it’s that takes away our two most emotional/passionate players. Now part of emotion is negative (head butt etc) but you need some passion.
I do think Grant’s 3 and interior D is a good fit for Luka and Kyrie.
I hope to change my mind on this trade in June 24 when Banner 18 goes up.
I do think Grant’s 3 and interior D is a good fit for Luka and Kyrie.
I hope to change my mind on this trade in June 24 when Banner 18 goes up.
Loved Grant Williams and sad to see him go, but its understandable. He was going to get more than what Boston could offer. But.. 3 second round picks are pretty useless? I hope I have to eat crow when one or all of them turn into the next Jokic, but this just seems like a salary dump for a bag of balls and a trade exception. Good for Grant, but a bit bummed as a Celtics fan.
Also, kind of hilarious that he ends up with Kyrie again. I seem to recall one of the earliest interviews he did, someone asked him about Kyrie's flat earth nonsense and Grant, whose mother worked for NASA, he wasn't having any of that.
Also, kind of hilarious that he ends up with Kyrie again. I seem to recall one of the earliest interviews he did, someone asked him about Kyrie's flat earth nonsense and Grant, whose mother worked for NASA, he wasn't having any of that.
Writing was on the wall Grant was out once they traded for Porzingis, but the Celtics are losing some toughness with Smart and Grant both out the door.
They could've really used an irritant like Pat Bev if the timing worked out better.
I'd like having even one guy who can get under an opponents skin.
They could've really used an irritant like Pat Bev if the timing worked out better.
I'd like having even one guy who can get under an opponents skin.
We're at 10 guaranteed, 1 non-guarantee, and we have agreements to sign 2 more. My guess is Champagnie is gone either in trade or released, Walsh gets a spot (maybe) so probably 2 roster spots up for grabs at least.
I'm using Spotrac, it's updated for Grant already.
They may open the season with 14 players with 3 two-ways
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics//cap
15-man Roster/Gtd Contracts
1. Tatum
2. Brown
3. KP
4. White
5. TL
6. Horford
7. Brogdon
8. PP
9. Hauser
10. Kornet
11. Brissett
12. Banton
13. ?
14. ?
15. ?
Two-Ways
1. Walsh
2. JD Davison
3. ?
Brad has more work to be done, especially upfront...
I have no idea how you can write that first paragraph with such certainty….and I would bet a good amount of money that Grant being buried on the bench absolutely depressed the value on this contract. How could it not?
True, but the quality of those three is better than prettty much any team’s big rotation. When they got Porzingis, I looked at it like 3 guys for 2 spots, assuming one in hurt at any given time. And I like my chances with any two of the three.
People who keep asking about why so many second rounders:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/what-is-the-nba-s-new-second-round-pick-exception/ar-AA1dnMSL
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/what-is-the-nba-s-new-second-round-pick-exception/ar-AA1dnMSL
Oh I was also looking at Spotrac and they entered KP twice so I was off by one. Super weird.
Attachments
I have the same questions about why 2s are more valuable but Brad Steven’s has an immense amount of job security at the moment. It’s a competitive advantage being able to juggle future assets without his ass being on the line (for now) and having a fairly definite ‘important part’ of the roster. 2 2nds can become a first with a little work. Alternatively, 2 2nds can become 4 2nds with a little work.
I mean... nobody made him an offer despite the Celtics pretty clearly telegraphing they wouldn't match. And... why do you think the 8th/9th man on the Celtics getting a few less minutes (while hurt) depressed his value to other teams... do you think they don't have scouting on a guy who has been in the league for years? Guys fall out of rotations all the time and other teams don't care in terms of their valuation.
There is zero evidence that Grant's value went down at all because of playing time, that's generally not how stuff works, teams are more sophisticated than that.
Grant bet on himself... and he got exactly what the Celtics pegged him at, because.... as usual.... NBA teams are generally quite good at assessing player value in the market.
I don't love this deal for Dallas, but if they are able to get grant and thybulle, then I really like it for them. I thin thybulle is the bigger need
They would probably be as effective in guarding such players as any of the flotsam and jetsam that usually accompanies these deals.
I have a question. Does this mean that the Celtics could now trade for player with a salary of $6.2 million and it will NOT count towards the cap?
If they got a 6.2 million exception then they can trade for a player making 6.2 million, but it will count towards the cap
It counts, they just don't have to salary match. So anyone 6.2M or under (there ain't much) could be taken for free, or traded just for picks, etc.
Thybulle & Grant are decent role players to put around Kyrie/Luka
the Christian Wood watch is on
can't. There is a complicated rule for how guys coming off low salaries count in S&T. Basically Grant counted as $12.4M for DAL, but only 6.2M for BOS. So DAL because they have no cap room needed to send out over 10M (see Bullock) but the Celtics could only take back up to 6.8M.
So San Antonio instead eats the 10M into cap space (creating a TPE for DAL) and the Celtics take back no salary creating their own 6.2M TPE.
Isiah Stewart would fit into the TPE, and the Celtics were rumored to have made an offer for him before the draft.
that’s a great call. Beef Stew is tough as nails. Would be a welcomed dimension to the team
This is a fanboy post, but what kind of sucks is that this iteration of the Celtics goes into these braindead lethargic stretches. Smart and Grant were the two that I perceived to be two guys who could go into any situation and run through a wall no matter the temperature of the rest of the team.
Beef Stew is also an "energy/grit" guy whose career is tracking in similar fashion - though they aren't the same type of player - to Grant.
My overall feeling on Grant is that he was an ideal 8th/9th man whose minutes should be matchup-dictated. That was an awesome thing to have on a rookie deal.... it's not something I think you pay $12-14M a year for. We'll probably replace most of Grant's production with a vet on the minimum. As an example, slightly different roles but Javonte Green is as good or better an overall player. And perhaps with the Porzingis trade, a more important positional fit.
Huh? Are they secretly scouting him in practice? When players play and produce, they help their trade value. When players don't play, teams have no idea what they can do and that certainly must hurt their trade value. This seems pretty obvious. Either the Celtics' coaching staff are complete morons, or they felt like DNP-CD Grant was the best choice vs. other players at their disposal. I would certainly think other NBA teams would take notice of that.
We lost two bulldogs and got a unicorn. In the absence of some more Brad alchemy I'm not sure the Celts got better or deeper.
I think Grant was a known value. The idea that either you play and establish trade value or else teams have "no idea what they can do" is an extreme false dichotomy.
Thybulle just announced to be signing his offer with the Mavs Thursday, leaving the Blazers a couple days to match.
So basically Dallas was willing to make the sign and trade in order to offer the MLE for Thybulle, so Brad had at least -that- much incentive to make Dallas give up something in order to keep the MLE available.
Source: View: https://twitter.com/chrisbhaynes/status/1676760916090830848?s=46&t=gEvQlnNLbU9ke0xn1kR1YA
Grant has played 360 NBA games... teams have a whole lot of scouting on him, a few DNP-CD on a loaded team (especially when if came out he was dealing with an injury) would have no impact on how they valued him as a free agent contract. Sure if he was under contract long term teams might see DNP-CD as a reason to try and low-ball, but he wasn't, he was a free agent, any GM who evaluated a player with 360 NBA games (and 104 in college) and said "ooh got a couple DNP-CD last year, better not offer him a contract, would be moron.
None of us know what would have happened to his value if he was in the rotation all year. IMO, he would have made more money.
To act like we all know it wouldn’t have changed or that it’s completely obvious it’s the same is ridiculous. None of us are that smart or can tell the future (no matter how much some believe they are)
I’m in a similar place. I’m also not convinced he has a real role next year with us adding another big in Porzingis. Finally, I don’t think we need to look outside the roster for the “replacement.”
Note: I compares seasons because the graph aligns better. If you do this by NBA games Hauser looks a lot better and by age Grant does, but I think the reality is both are pretty solid 8/9 guys. It’s nice to have both of them but we don’t need both of them and are top 8 and top 10 rosters still look perfectly fine with Hauser, Pritchard, and Kornet filling out the 8-10 slots, even if there isn’t another shoe still to drop. Although, I doubt we’re not at least going to add a vet or two to compete in that 8-10/12 range before the dust settles.
Uh... he was in the rotation all year. He played the most minutes and most games of his entire career. How much did you expect him to play?
Edit- Grant played in the 3rd most games of any player this year for BOS 79 of the 82. He played the FOURTH most minutes, he had the 6th most starts. Grant played a whole lot, more than he ever had before. Any argument built around "ooh Mazulla screwed him" is delusional.
Post-All Star 21-22 he played 27.1 MPG. Pre-All Star 22-23 he played 27.9 MPG. Post-All Star that dropped to 20.4 MPG. His minutes dropped after the All Star Break. We all know this, it was a popular talking point here and in the media.
You knew this also but it doesn’t fit the narrative that you currently are trying to push.