The Celtics Offseason

[lovegtm]

That’s f

That’s very fair and something I could see happening. Although I think finding cheap talent through the draft should be the priority at some point.

I think teams that have the ability to get good vets by cycling salary slots using picks prefer to do that. Denver is currently trying to take a lot of shots at finding cheap draft talent, but it's because they will be so locked into Jokic+Murray+MPJ+Gordon that they don't have much other way to add, besides flipping KCP's contract.

Milwaukee has been a title contender every season starting '18-19, and since Giannis I don't think they hit on a single 1st rounder besides (kinda) DiVincenzo.

The other problem with the draft is that guys take time to develop. If you can't give them minutes, they won't develop, and even if you can, they might not be useful until 2-3 years in.

There's definitely a place for making picks, and the Celtics have left the future flexibility to do so, but they clearly want to take as many vet shots as possible before Tatum and Brown's new deals kick in.

 

[BostonFan23]

Smart and a first isn’t going to get you much. Smart’s just salary filler and the first is going to be in the 26-30 range.

You seem remarkably confident about this and I'm not sure why. Smart just turned 29, he has 3 years left at very reasonable money, and is a year removed from being the DPOY. His advanced stats took a bit of a hit this year, admittedly. But he averaged a career high in assists, above average marks (for him) in FG + 3PT%, and in the playoffs, is putting up 15/4/6 on 45/36/80 splits for a team in the ECF. If the cost for Smart was "salary filler" 29 teams would line up to pay that price.

Smart turned out to be more than salary filler.

He was my favorite Celtic. Tough to see him go.

 

[JCizzle]

I thought Smart to the Grizzlies made sense for awhile and like that move for KP and picks. However, I don't love the idea of Brogdon being the backup point behind DW. I'm sure he's capable of running an offense, but he sure didn't show it as he called his own number over and over again last year. I'm hoping there's another move to come.

 

[lovegtm]

I thought Smart to the Grizzlies made sense for awhile and like that move for KP and picks. However, I don't love the idea of Brogdon being the backup point behind DW. I'm sure he's capable of running an offense, but he sure didn't show it as he called his own number over and over again last year. I'm hoping there's another move to come.

Someone mentioned on Twitter that the original idea was probably to deal Brogdon for KP, and then get Tyus Jones in a separate deal with Memphis.

I still think Brogdon will be on the way out at some point, and the Celtics could easily target Jones again if that was the plan.

 

[JCizzle]

Someone mentioned on Twitter that the original idea was probably to deal Brogdon for KP, and then get Tyus Jones in a separate deal with Memphis.

I still think Brogdon will be on the way out at some point, and the Celtics could easily target Jones again if that was the plan.

That makes a ton of sense, here's hoping!

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I think after last year's disappointing season, there needed to be a shakeup. And once it was decided that Mazzulla was staying on, that Brown and Tatum were staying on, that limited any opportunities for a big shakeup. This, along with the high profile assistant coahcing hires, accomplishes that.

I wonder if there will be some "there is only one ball" issues with Porzingis, Brown, and Tatum though. All 3 are very high usage players - Porzingis nearly as high as the other two. They need to have an offensive that uses his skills to get value out of the deal. If he becomes a glorified spot up shooter while Brown and Tatum do even more ballhandling, that will be a problem. But he could be the guy who breaks the zone, the guy who posts up either to score or kick it out, pick and roll/pop guy.

Defensively he can fit in with Rob and Al and provide fantastic rim protection, so he is a fit there.

Assuming Brogdon stays, that will be a top 8 of:

Bigs: Porzingis, Rob, Horford
Wings: Jayson, Jaylen, Hauser
Points: White, Brogdon

The only other 2 contracts we have are Kornet, Pritchard.

Blake could be back as a potential vet min/end of bench guy.

JDD could get a contract.

There may be other shoes to drop, and they have a first round pick.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

I

Someone mentioned on Twitter that the original idea was probably to deal Brogdon for KP, and then get Tyus Jones in a separate deal with Memphis.

I still think Brogdon will be on the way out at some point, and the Celtics could easily target Jones again if that was the plan.

This would be nice. I don't necessarily hate White as the starting PG with Brogdon off the bench, but I think I'd prefer more of a distributor type like Jones to Brogdon. Also find it hard to believe that PP is going to be the third guard so something seems bound to happen.

 

[MillarTime]

Someone mentioned on Twitter that the original idea was probably to deal Brogdon for KP, and then get Tyus Jones in a separate deal with Memphis.

I still think Brogdon will be on the way out at some point, and the Celtics could easily target Jones again if that was the plan.

Whoa baby, this would be good

 

[128]

View: https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1671865799584235521

 

[BigSoxFan]

View: https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1671865799584235521

That sucks on so many levels.

(If true)

 

[Ed Hillel]

I’ve never heard of an NBA player getting Tommy John, so it just seems like this will be our luck here.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

View: https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1671865799584235521

God he is so dramatic.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

View: https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1671865799584235521

Between Brogdon and Time Lord being unmovable due to health/passing physicals, Brad really was hamstrung into moving Smart to make the rotation and salary structure changes that he wanted to complete. I'm sure that at the end of the day his preference was to retain Smart but options were limited for these reasons.

I’ve never heard of an NBA player getting Tommy John, so it just seems like this will be our luck here.

Maybe it's me but that isn't what i took from that Tweet. It came across as less of a physical injury and more of a health issue.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Maybe it's me but that isn't what i took from that Tweet. It came across as less of a physical injury and more of a health issue.

So…he’s pregnant?

 

[lexrageorge]

Sounds like Windhorst is covering for the Clippers' failure to complete the trade.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Maybe it's me but that isn't what i took from that Tweet. It came across as less of a physical injury and more of a health issue.

The weird thing is, if it's so significant that he's going to miss a good chunk of playing time, then trading another one of your guards becomes even riskier. A top-3 guard rotation of White, Brogdon, and Pritchard is iffy, a top-3 guard rotation of White, Pritchard, and [fill in the blank] is even worse.

Perhaps this is more akin to what we saw with Correa this MLB offseason where it isn't something that will affect his playing time immediately but makes teams think he is substantially more likely to get injured going forward? That doesn't really mesh with what Windhorst said (specifically the part about Brogdon being untradable in the "short term"), but he could be BS'ing or getting bad info.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Maybe it's me but that isn't what i took from that Tweet. It came across as less of a physical injury and more of a health issue.

He's in a submarine?

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Sounds like Windhorst is covering for the Clippers' failure to complete the trade.

Could be. It doesn’t seem to add up that the Celtics would be actively shopping Brogdon as a key piece in a deal of this magnitude if his medical prognosis is as bad as Windhorst is suggesting. Look how they reportedly had to scramble to salvage a KP deal before his PO deadline - if he’s damaged goods, would they really have been so confident in Brogdon’s value in terms of their management of the negotiations?

 

[NomarsFool]

I'm a little skeptical of this "report". If MB had some major health issue, I don't think the Celtics would have been trying to trade him. And, I can't believe this major health issue was diagnosed yesterday.

 

[bosockboy]

I'm a little skeptical of this "report". If MB had some major health issue, I don't think the Celtics would have been trying to trade him. And, I can't believe this major health issue was diagnosed yesterday.

And the trade was on the 2 yard line. Doesn’t get that far with a catastrophic injury.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Between Brogdon and Time Lord being unmovable due to health/passing physicals, Brad really was hamstrung into moving Smart to make the rotation and salary structure changes that he wanted to complete. I'm sure that at the end of the day his preference was to retain Smart but options were limited for these reasons.


Maybe it's me but that isn't what i took from that Tweet. It came across as less of a physical injury and more of a health issue.

I don't think his preference was to retain Smart. I believe that Brad had the framework of a Smart to Memphis deal ready to go and this was the next domino to drop after the Porzingis-for-Brogdon trade. But, when the Brogdon deal went south he circled to Memphis to fold the Smart deal into the Porzingis one so he wouldn't miss out on getting Porzingis.

I think Brad's plan was to get Porzingis for Brogdon and do the Smart deal and end up with White as the starting PG with Tyus Jones and Payton Pritchard on the bench. Getting those first round picks was also part of it.

 

[RedOctober3829]

And the trade was on the 2 yard line. Doesn’t get that far with a catastrophic injury.

Or Brad did not disclose the severity of the injury and when LA's doctors were reviewing the medical reports they had a much different view.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The weird thing is, if it's so significant that he's going to miss a good chunk of playing time, then trading another one of your guards becomes even riskier. A top-3 guard rotation of White, Brogdon, and Pritchard is iffy, a top-3 guard rotation of White, Pritchard, and [fill in the blank] is even worse.

Perhaps this is more akin to what we saw with Correa this MLB offseason where it isn't something that will affect his playing time immediately but makes teams think he is substantially more likely to get injured going forward? That doesn't really mesh with what Windhorst said (specifically the part about Brogdon being untradable in the "short term"), but he could be BS'ing or getting bad info.

With Porzingis here we should be playing 2BIGZ almost exclusively so Jaylen will be considered part of that guard rotation for lineup balance purposes. I'm reading places, not here, saying that this opens up regular minutes for Pritchard but I don't really see that as he's still the 4th guard on the depth chart.

 

[Justthetippett]

Brogdon played G7 (not well obviously, but he played). Not sure how severe this could be. If he needs surgery then, you know, the off-season is a good time for that.

This might all increase the chances they draft a G tonight, which would be sub-optimal.

 

[Jimbodandy]

With Porzingis here we should be playing 2BIGZ almost exclusively so Jaylen will be considered part of that guard rotation for lineup balance purposes. I'm reading places, not here, saying that this opens up regular minutes for Pritchard but I don't really see that as he's still the 4th guard on the depth chart.

Yeah I'm not at all sure why people think that this means real minutes for PP. Fewer DNP-CD, sure. But I'd be surprised if he sees a ton of minutes even when both White and Brogdon are sitting. Absent more trades (i.e., if the team stays as is), he'll play extra when either White or Brogdon are injured or have rest days. But everyone healthy, he's getting a few minutes at end of quarters and matchup dependent spots. I don't think he breaks a playoff rotation on this team as presently constructed.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I'm deeply curious about whether we go back to WAS in the new cap year, they have basically all the good fit backup PGs making reasonable money on their team:
Tyus Jones (least likely, he wants to start then a big contract)
Monte Morris (1 year 9.8M left)
Delon Wright (1 year 8.2M left)
Also, Chris Paul, but I don't see it.

 

[NomarsFool]

Or Brad did not disclose the severity of the injury and when LA's doctors were reviewing the medical reports they had a much different view.

I just don't see it all likely that POBOS was trying to hide some sort of serious injury. There can of course be disagreements, but the tweet made it sound like Brogdon has terminal cancer.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I just don't see it all likely that POBOS was trying to hide some sort of serious injury. There can of course be disagreements, but the tweet made it sound like Brogdon has terminal cancer.

The man does have a flair for the wildly overdramatic.

View: https://twitter.com/complexsports/status/1542956075821006849?s=46&t=1S4eWjX_rzBBrpPNddRPAg

 

[pjheff]

Or Brad did not disclose the severity of the injury and when LA's doctors were reviewing the medical reports they had a much different view.

Or the Clips were trying to extort an additional asset, using the midnight deadline as a pressure point, leading Brad to pivot to Memphis and LA to devalue the asset as a face saving gesture.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Could be. It doesn’t seem to add up that the Celtics would be actively shopping Brogdon as a key piece in a deal of this magnitude if his medical prognosis is as bad as Windhorst is suggesting. Look how they reportedly had to scramble to salvage a KP deal before his PO deadline - if he’s damaged goods, would they really have been so confident in Brogdon’s value in terms of their management of the negotiations?

The good part about Windhorst is he's fairly well connected (so he may have unique info) and willing to share things...and the bad part is he's a pretty narrativey-and limited analyst who is very comfortable sharing his personal opinion (so he might also be sharing stupid specultation of his). And he doesn't often do a great job clarifying which of those you're getting

He's not Shams/Woj (plugged in, basically just mouthpieces) and also not Lowe (primarily thoughtful and informed analysis, though may reflect thoughts from insiders at teams). So you always have to figure out if he's reporting or just specultating/interpreting...and we can't always do so.

 

[radsoxfan]

I'm a little skeptical of this "report". If MB had some major health issue, I don't think the Celtics would have been trying to trade him. And, I can't believe this major health issue was diagnosed yesterday.

They can always try…. They did it with IT and it sorta worked.

If this is all about the elbow I agree it’s a bit confusing. Typically an off-season of rest should heal most non-surgical tendon or ligament issues for non-throwing athletes. I haven’t heard about him getting surgery at least.

I don’t recall any major dislocation type of trauma that would be potentially more catastrophic.

Maybe there is something other than the elbow?

 

[Dim13]

He's in a submarine?

I laughed.

 

[RorschachsMask]

From Jake Fischer, of yahoo.

Boston had been active in conversations around the league regarding both Brogdon and Smart, sources said, with the goal of clearing its logjam in the backcourt and adding reinforcements to a frontline that features oft-injured Robert Williams and aging Al Horford. The Celtics were laying groundwork for potential opportunities to deal the No. 35 pick plus Payton Pritchard for a later first-round pick, sources said, but Boston was clearly aggressive in prioritizing bigger moves to upgrade a contending roster, and you can’t get much bigger than a 7-foot-3 center who quietly regained All-Star form for much of the 2022-23 season. The Celtics ultimately netted the pick in the 20s they were eyeing as well. In conversations with league personnel, Brogdon seemed the most likely Celtic to be moved, and there he was in the original Porziņģis framework with the Clippers. It remains to be seen if the Celtics will continue exploring Brogdon trades after nearly dealing the veteran guard, or if his medical situation will prevent any movement there at all. Perhaps Boston can use one of the additional picks added from Memphis to help facilitate a subsequent move.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I want them to move up in the draft to get either Cam Whitmore or Jordan Hawkins. Hawkins would be a really nice bench scorer. Best pure shooter in the draft.

 

[nighthob]

I’ve never heard of an NBA player getting Tommy John, so it just seems like this will be our luck here.

Tommy John surgery is only for pitchers, the surgery everyone else gets is the one that Story had.

 

[ehaz]

I want them to move up in the draft to get either Cam Whitmore or Jordan Hawkins. Hawkins would be a really nice bench scorer. Best pure shooter in the draft.

I don't follow the NBA draft too much but do you think Hawkins is a better shooter than Gradey Dick? I keep hearing those two as the best shooters (and seems like both are projected lottery picks).

 

[Auger34]

View: https://twitter.com/iamjamesstewart/status/1671945373877714944?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA


No idea if this guy is legit but a lot of Celtics people I follow are commenting.

Seems like that rumor would be Grant in a S+T, 25, GS 1st next year for Theis and 7? If the Celtics are moving up to 7, I assume Anthony Black would be the target? The other players in that range (Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Cam Whitmore) aren’t as clean of fits as Black

 

[Jimbodandy]

Damn gotta carve out time for the draft tonight definitely now.

 

[Justthetippett]

View: https://twitter.com/iamjamesstewart/status/1671945373877714944?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA


No idea if this guy is legit but a lot of Celtics people I follow are commenting.

Seems like that rumor would be Grant in a S+T, 25, GS 1st next year for Theis and 7? If the Celtics are moving up to 7, I assume Anthony Black would be the target? The other players in that range (Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Cam Whitmore) aren’t as clean of fits as Black

Well, they are keeping it interesting. Not sure why Indiana would be too interested in that package.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I don't get chasing Theis unless TL is being dealt somewhere, but who knows on draft day....all sorts of rumors with a wide range of accuracy levels!

 

[lars10]

I don't get chasing Theis unless TL is being dealt somewhere, but who knows on draft day....all sorts of rumors with a wide range of accuracy levels!

Celts are looking to play a five bigs defense

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://twitter.com/iamjamesstewart/status/1671945373877714944?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA


No idea if this guy is legit but a lot of Celtics people I follow are commenting.

Seems like that rumor would be Grant in a S+T, 25, GS 1st next year for Theis and 7? If the Celtics are moving up to 7, I assume Anthony Black would be the target? The other players in that range (Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Cam Whitmore) aren’t as clean of fits as Black

How are they combining a S&T that can't even be discussed yet for draft picks that have to be made tonight?

This sounds very very made up.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I don't follow the NBA draft too much but do you think Hawkins is a better shooter than Gradey Dick? I keep hearing those two as the best shooters (and seems like both are projected lottery picks).

Hawkins is your prototypical 2-guard that runs off screens to get open shots. I watched a lot of Jordan this year as a UConn fan and he can get as hot as any shooter I've seen in the last few years in college. Gradey Dick is also a great shooter but he is more of an athlete than Hawkins(not a knock on him but Gradey is really athletic). I'd be happy with either player, but I think Hawkins would be what they need against a zone and that's a player who can run around and get spot up 3's.

 

[Euclis20]

I don't get chasing Theis unless TL is being dealt somewhere, but who knows on draft day....all sorts of rumors with a wide range of accuracy levels!

Theis replacing TL's minutes is something I want no part of (especially if Grant is gone). If he's coming back to be the primary emergency center (replacing Kornet) behind Porzingis/Horford/TL, that's fine, whatever.

 

[lovegtm]

Theis replacing TL's minutes is something I want no part of (especially if Grant is gone). If he's coming back to be the primary emergency center (replacing Kornet) behind Porzingis/Horford/TL, that's fine, whatever.

I guess I'll dignify this probably made-up rumor by explaining its logic....Theis has a team option for '24-25, so he'd just be expiring matching salary in this proposed deal.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

View: https://twitter.com/iamjamesstewart/status/1671945373877714944?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA

How long would it take for Antoine to work back into shape though?

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

and he can get as hot as any shooter I've seen in the last few years in college.

Hotter than 'Arsen Edwards?

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

How long would it take for Antoine to work back into shape though?

Might be a long time. The McDonald's app gives you a large fry for $1 every day.

 

[nighthob]

View: https://twitter.com/iamjamesstewart/status/1671945373877714944?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA


No idea if this guy is legit but a lot of Celtics people I follow are commenting.

Seems like that rumor would be Grant in a S+T, 25, GS 1st next year for Theis and 7? If the Celtics are moving up to 7, I assume Anthony Black would be the target? The other players in that range (Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Cam Whitmore) aren’t as clean of fits as Black

Anthony Black would be a goot guess/get. He's 6'6" 210 and looks like he could carry another 20lbs without losing any athleticism. Unfortunately as a PG he's destined to spend the next 7 years splitting time with Orlando's other 5 PGs.

 

[BigMike]

View: https://twitter.com/iamjamesstewart/status/1671945373877714944?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA


No idea if this guy is legit but a lot of Celtics people I follow are commenting.

Seems like that rumor would be Grant in a S+T, 25, GS 1st next year for Theis and 7? If the Celtics are moving up to 7, I assume Anthony Black would be the target? The other players in that range (Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Cam Whitmore) aren’t as clean of fits as Black

If Indiana were thinking about doing this, someone should take their GM outside and shoot him right now. Good god what an unimaginably bad trade for the Pacers.