The Future of Alex Cora in Boston
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Seriously? So many viable complaints about anyone's managing styles/decisions, but giving a guy a day off shouldn't be one of them unless it's a do-or-die game. Try harder.
Giving players days off is a necessary thing.
Cora must just have bad luck that way.
I'll take my answer off the air.
It’s impossible to know but a few times it has seemed a slumping hitter finally gets an unscrewed and then Cora sits them and then they slump again.
Not saying it’s causal just observing.
Not saying it’s causal just observing.
I believe that in most cases, the player knows in advance when he's going to get a day off. Perhaps the foreknowledge of a day off relaxes the player and allows him to get "unscrewed" at the plate? Maybe the key to getting big nights out of guys is to promise they get the next day off!
But seriously, it's probably just confirmation bias at work here. You only notice the days off when guys have a big night the day before. Most days off pass without much notice at all.
I know what he does but it doesn't make sense when you are trying to win games, especially when the team's weakness has been a lack of offense.
So run guys into the ground trying to win games in June when the possible outcome is they're exhausted and useless in August and September?
Sorry, Don Zimmer is not walking through that door.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of the things that people are getting outraged over (designated off days, Sunday / getaway lineups) are all things that Francona did, and Farrell did. They can be annoying in the moment, and I do love bitching about some of the ridiculous lineups we get to watch occasionally, but I don't think they're unique to Cora at all.
I think at this point it's relatively clear that Cora is a "fine" manager - roughly league average, I'd say. Some of the specific criticisms that people are lobbing at Cora are I think unfair in the sense that every manager does them - stuff like giving players off days, the occasional odd bullpen decision, not always putting out a lineup that seems to maximize their strengths, etc.
Maybe I'm off base here, but my overall view is that the manager role has declined in importance significantly over the past decade or two given (1) increased player empowerment and (2) analytics, Statcast, and the various other tools teams have at their disposal. Even managers that traditionally were thought of as pretty controlling and hard-asses, like Buck Showalter, strike me more as just interchangeable cogs at this point rather than someone who really brings significant added value to a team or somehow changes their mentality.
Which isn't to say that the Sox shouldn't always be on the lookout for improvements because as I said I don't think Cora is a star or anything - but firing Cora after a few bad seasons and replacing him with the bench coach from some other team or whatever would probably be a net-neutral move at best unless there is something particularly noteworthy about the replacement.
Maybe I'm off base here, but my overall view is that the manager role has declined in importance significantly over the past decade or two given (1) increased player empowerment and (2) analytics, Statcast, and the various other tools teams have at their disposal. Even managers that traditionally were thought of as pretty controlling and hard-asses, like Buck Showalter, strike me more as just interchangeable cogs at this point rather than someone who really brings significant added value to a team or somehow changes their mentality.
Which isn't to say that the Sox shouldn't always be on the lookout for improvements because as I said I don't think Cora is a star or anything - but firing Cora after a few bad seasons and replacing him with the bench coach from some other team or whatever would probably be a net-neutral move at best unless there is something particularly noteworthy about the replacement.
I don't know how Francona handled it in Boston, but just a few days ago Andres Gimenez left a game with muscle tightness in his leg. He thought he was ready to play the next game, but Francona held him out of the starting lineup. When they had a pivotal at-bat late in the game, Francona still sent him in to pinch-hit.
Glad for that. The sox had a day off on Thursday. Devers didn't need a second consecutive day off.
He was going to get a day off on Thursday. He didn't need two days off. If he wanted to give him a little more rest he could have used him as the DH.
Cora frequently gives guys a game off before a day off to let the player have two days off. And you're not in the clubhouse, so you have no idea if Devers needed a couple days.
Put some effort into your posting chipper. You made statements that are nothing more than your personal opinion with nothing to back up that opinion besides more of your own opinion.
Read this.
On the subject of giving days off, Masa's recent two-day rest was based on info gleaned from talking to his team in Japan
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/06/talking-to-former-team-helped-red-sox-know-when-masataka-yoshida-needs-rest.html
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/06/talking-to-former-team-helped-red-sox-know-when-masataka-yoshida-needs-rest.html
With the caveat that I am a hopeless pessimist, I can’t see this team doing much more than hovering around .500. Because of that, I can’t see the benefit of ditching Cora mid-season. If all of that plays out, I think moving on during the off season will be the right thing to do.
That said, Bloom came on board when Cora was still highly regarded in town with most of 2018’s shine still on him, despite his role and subsequent punishment from his Astros days. There are so many more layers. Does Bloom like him or has he reluctantly kept him? How will Bloom’s future affect any managerial decisions? Will ownership be willing to overrule any decision that Bloom would have made on his own?
As an aside, the above “exchange” reminded me of the days of someone throwing the grim reaper emoji around when certain people got frisky or when a sacrifice had to be made for gsmethread mojo reasons. Who was that? I miss having a functioning memory.
That said, Bloom came on board when Cora was still highly regarded in town with most of 2018’s shine still on him, despite his role and subsequent punishment from his Astros days. There are so many more layers. Does Bloom like him or has he reluctantly kept him? How will Bloom’s future affect any managerial decisions? Will ownership be willing to overrule any decision that Bloom would have made on his own?
As an aside, the above “exchange” reminded me of the days of someone throwing the grim reaper emoji around when certain people got frisky or when a sacrifice had to be made for gsmethread mojo reasons. Who was that? I miss having a functioning memory.
He had already used Martin in the 8th and Jansen in the 9th.... Wasn't much left in the cupboard though I would have rather seen them bring in literally anyone else... Jacques had warmed up earlier but didn't come into the game. And seems like they were saving Garza and possibly Winckowski for today's game....
Also, not scoring in the top of the 10th has got to put the win probability pretty high for the home team. I'm not suggesting putting a position player on the mound (if they were allowed), but given the potential for an innings crunch today, there's at least some rational explanation for Ort last night (to the extent there ever is).
Better question for me is why he IBB'ed the #8 hitter there to put a much better bunter at the plate in an obvious sacrifice situation.
Good question. But is Taylor really a better bunter than Vaz? That aside, force at 3rd possibility in the event of a not-great bunt might be worth it?
It was also their 5th game in 4 days. Bullpen is pretty taxed right now, not a ton of options. Cora went for the win in the 8th and tried to give the team a chance in extras by using Kenley in the 9th, but the offense couldn't pull it out.
I have questioned his bullpen usage at times, but not last night.
I have questioned his bullpen usage at times, but not last night.
I didn't see the game and didn't know who was available, so I won't dispute that. I do think that extra innings with the Manford Man is much more of quick-to-end proposition than a long-haul strategy. If you're there, you're tied. You shouldn't be punting or thinking about the next game.
Yeah. I didn't like Ort coming in in that situation, but the onus was on the offense to do something in the top of the 10th, and they whiffed.
Once the offense failed to score in the top of the 10th, it meant you need at least 2 innings from your relievers if you're going to win. Seeing if you get lucky with Ort is no worse than any of the other bad options.
That game was lost much earlier when they failed, repeatedly, to score after runner on 2B, 0 outs or runner on 3B, 1 out scenarios in the 4th, 6th, and 10th; and when they made outs on the bases in the 6th and 7th.
Does anyone know where to find team baserunning and situational hitting performance?
Does anyone know where to find team baserunning and situational hitting performance?
He could flip-flop Arroyo and Kike defensively. There was at least some talk of that when Arroyo was on his last rehab assignment and got a few SS innings for Worcester. For whatever reason it hasn't happened.
Otherwise, the alternative was Hamilton. Probably not the spot for a rookie debut.
100% agree. When you fail to score in a tie game with 1st and 3rd, no outs in the 7th, that’s bad. Didn’t realise it had been happening all game, but that’s my main issue with Cora and his staff. Fundamentals.
Why isnt that on the players for sucking at it? Is "Cora and his staff" responsible for Ort being unable to execute the "fundamental" of "throwing" the "ball"?
Not defending the post…. Because I disagree with the premise But there’s a difference between game strategy to push a run across and a pitcher trying to throw good hard-to-hit strikes, no?
At the extremes, its different. But in the moment?
"Hit a sac fly here, Dugie." Is the 6-4-3 bad coaching or shitty hitting? I don't know. But the tendency is to blame the coaching. And also to place things that are "skils" that not al players possess into some undefined "fundamentals" basket in which failure falls to someone other than the player. Like I said at the extremes its easy....telling Justin Turner to try and steal second with none out down 2 runs against a LHP and Realmuto catching. That's on teh manager. Turner decided to steal on his own? Maybe not so much.
Won't be able to send Cora to The U anymore.
View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1673354903442300929
View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1673354903442300929
Who could replace him that’s better?
It’s not like they’re giving him filet that putting into a meat grinder
I’m pretty ambivalent about Cora, because I’m ambivalent about nearly every MLB manager. This ain’t the NFL, the vast majority of baseball managers are fungible.
But we’re firing him because they’re getting thumped by a vastly better team? I mean, the Sox roster is very the definition of mediocre. I’m not sure there anyone on Earth who could have made Whitlock pitch like Pedro, or have this offense hit when it matters.
