2016-2017 NBA Game Thread

HomeRunBaker

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I dont see the Wolves being a contender anytime soon. They seem like a Philadelphia type of a team where they have a lot of young individual talent that doesnt translate to team success.
Of course not they are all 21-22 years old. This league destroys youth. They are 5 years away but have two truly elite players in KAT and Wiggins. Which roster would you prefer moving forward Boston or Minnesota? It can't even be close right?

Edit: I swear I commented an hour ago and didn't submit so I never saw Kliq's post.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Warriors 80 points in the first half on 62% from the field. 26 assists too. In 24 minutes of basketball.

edit: to be fair, its the Lakers and without Russell or Randle. Still, somewhere, SamRayNot is giving thanks for this squad...
 

Al Zarilla

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Warriors 80 points in the first half on 62% from the field. 26 assists too. In 24 minutes of basketball.

edit: to be fair, its the Lakers and without Russell or Randle. Still, somewhere, SamRayNot is giving thanks for this squad...
Curry made a couple of passes for assists that were Larry Bird worthy, not to mention making about six threes. KD seems to be integrated into the team perfectly well. Warriors team is ridiculous.

Kevin Love went off for 34 in the first quarter?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Curry made a couple of passes for assists that were Larry Bird worthy, not to mention making about six threes. KD seems to be integrated into the team perfectly well. Warriors team is ridiculous.

Kevin Love went off for 34 in the first quarter?
Yeah the passing was brilliant. And you are right about Durant. His efficiency is fantastic right now and he appears to be enjoying playing in Golden State's system immensely. As brilliant as Westbrook is, it really seems as if Durant wasn't digging playing with a guy who is so ball dominant.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Who defended worse last night, the Trail Blazers or the Lakers?

This was like throw-back night to the Doug Moe and Paul Westhead eras.
 

Kliq

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That should make up for Iggy averaging 5 points a game and shooting 20 percent from three.
 

jon abbey

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That should make up for Iggy averaging 5 points a game and shooting 20 percent from three.
The regular season matters less for him than probably any other player in the league, he should be saving it all for May and June.
 

chilidawg

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Of course not they are all 21-22 years old. This league destroys youth. They are 5 years away but have two truly elite players in KAT and Wiggins. Which roster would you prefer moving forward Boston or Minnesota? It can't even be close right?

Edit: I swear I commented an hour ago and didn't submit so I never saw Kliq's post.
Asking seriously, in 5 years won't all their rookie contracts be expiring? Who knows who will even be there any more.
 

Kliq

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The regular season matters less for him than probably any other player in the league, he should be saving it all for May and June.
Yeah your right; he probably wasn't even trying to make those shots.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah your right; he probably wasn't even trying to make those shots.
I know you're too young to have followed Robert Horry's career while it was happening, but towards the end of it, his regular season performance was terrible. He turned into a different guy in the postseason, older players only have so many games in them each season and in a situation like his, the more he can hold back until the playoffs, the better.

Admittedly this is what I thought Tim Duncan was doing last year and then playoff time came and it turned out he was just cooked, but either way, the regular season doesn't matter at all for a few select players.
 

jon abbey

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Greg Monroe with the Pistons is probably the closest example but even then they could have kept him with a max offer.
I don't think Detroit wanted to keep him, it was pretty clear he couldn't play alongside Drummond and Drummond wasn't going anywhere.
 

Kliq

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I know you're too young to have followed Robert Horry's career while it was happening, but towards the end of it, his regular season performance was terrible. He turned into a different guy in the postseason, older players only have so many games in them each season and in a situation like his, the more he can hold back until the playoffs, the better.

Admittedly this is what I thought Tim Duncan was doing last year and then playoff time came and it turned out he was just cooked, but either way, the regular season doesn't matter at all for a few select players.
I understand the idea of veterans coasting during he regular season and that would hurt counting stats; but why would effect shooting percentages, particularly with Iggy just shooting mostly open threes? Even at the end Horry was still shooting around league average from three in the regular season. FWIW I don't really care; it was just a tongue in cheek comment.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, it was more just a general response to the world, it's amusing to me how focused people are on the minutiae of GS's season so far (eek! Klay Thompson has forgotten to shoot!), when these games matter so little to them in the big picture. I mean, ideally you want to be the team that doesn't have to play both of the other Western contenders, but it's not like GS can't easily win in anyone else's arena.
 

Kliq

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Yeah, it was more just a general response to the world, it's amusing to me how focused people are on the minutiae of GS's season so far (eek! Klay Thompson has forgotten to shoot!), when these games matter so little to them in the big picture. I mean, ideally you want to be the team that doesn't have to play both of the other Western contenders, but it's not like GS can't easily win in anyone else's arena.
I agree with you on that aspect. However if Iggy can't shoot in the playoffs that makes them much easier to guard and they don't have a reliable corner shooter in Barnes anymore to take those minutes.
 

jon abbey

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I agree with you on that aspect. However if Iggy can't shoot in the playoffs that makes them much easier to guard and they don't have a reliable corner shooter in Barnes anymore to take those minutes.
Don't forget that Durant is the one in Barnes' place, Iguodala just has to do whatever he did before, which is primarily D against Kawhi and LeBron.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Over the past two weeks Iguodala's FG% has been 48.7% and his 3p% is at 40%. I know that is a random sample but it suggests his early struggles were rust. Also, 15 games is kind of a small sample size to evaluate a player's shooting.
 

Kliq

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Lolz. That's kinda like saying the 2003-2016 Red Sox didn't have a reliable left-handed DH to take Jeremy Giambi's ABs.
I think not having a reliable shooter in the death ball lineup that defenses don't have to guard could end up being an issue in a tight playoff game.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think not having a reliable shooter in the death ball lineup that defenses don't have to guard could end up being an issue in a tight playoff game.
I think SRN was partly alluding to the idea that Barnes was a reliable corner shooter. He was at best good during the regular season but played poorly during the playoffs.

Again, if you look at Iguodala's recent game logs, he appears to be back on track.
 

JakeRae

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I think not having a reliable shooter in the death ball lineup that defenses don't have to guard could end up being an issue in a tight playoff game.
So, you think going from a good shooter to one of the best offensive players in the game is going to hurt them offensively?
 

jon abbey

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Kliq must be confused, let me spell it out just to be sure:

Last year's 'death ball' lineup:

Curry/Thompson/Barnes/Iguodala/Green

This year's 'death ball' lineup:

Curry/Thompson/Durant/Iguodala/Green
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Kliq must be confused, let me spell it out just to be sure:

Last year's 'death ball' lineup:

Curry/Thompson/Barnes/Iguodala/Green

This year's 'death ball' lineup:

Curry/Thompson/Durant/Iguodala/Green
Nobody can toss up bricks quite like Harrison Barnes. I can totally see where GSW will struggle switching him for Durant.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I think SRN was partly alluding to the idea that Barnes was a reliable corner shooter.
I was more alluding to KFD. Barnes was pretty average at hitting open threes (and pretty average at most things for a 3-4, though a bit below average at passing and ballhandling).

But yeah, all of the minutes and touches that went to Barnes are now going to Durant, not Iguodala.
 

johnmd20

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The Cavs had a really tough time with the Mavs tonight. It was 68 to 28 at one point. A score like that is almost impossible. Almost.
 

jon abbey

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Knicks have won six in a row at home, developing a little chemistry after Rose missed the whole preseason. My man Porzingis was as bad as I've ever seen him through three quarters tonight against Charlotte, in foul trouble and way out of sync offensively, but he had some of his best blocked shots ever, coming from really low percentage angles with both guys in full flight and getting all ball, plus a go-ahead three from the corner with under a minute to go in OT. Hornacek has been doing a good job of shuffling bench personnel in depending on the situation, plenty of times I have wondered why someone is in just to watch them contribute postively right after that.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I was at the T-Wolves at Warriors game last night and I left feeling even more confident that when LaVine, Towns and Wiggins all get some more consistency with age, along with a half-way decent bench (Cole Aldrich, Brandon Rush and Shabazz Muhammad..yikes!), this core is going to compete for a championship. I don't know if Thibs is the guy to help this team find their balance but at least he will give them a good defensive orientation.

LaVine gave Klay Thompson, who is considered a plus defender, fits all night. The guy is slippery as hell and can create his own shot from anywhere on the floor. The other noteworthy thing about Minnesota from this game is that during crunch time, Thibs used Tyus Jones and Dunn instead of Rubio at point after Rubio started the game. If he is doing this in back-end of a back to back game in November, I have a feeling Rubio won't be seeing the floor much as the calendar turns and may likely be elsewhere after the trade deadline.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I was at the T-Wolves at Warriors game last night and I left feeling even more confident that when LaVine, Towns and Wiggins all get some more consistency with age, along with a half-way decent bench (Cole Aldrich, Brandon Rush and Shabazz Muhammad..yikes!), this core is going to compete for a championship. I don't know if Thibs is the guy to help this team find their balance but at least he will give them a good defensive orientation.

LaVine gave Klay Thompson, who is considered a plus defender, fits all night. The guy is slippery as hell and can create his own shot from anywhere on the floor. The other noteworthy thing about Minnesota from this game is that during crunch time, Thibs used Tyus Jones and Dunn instead of Rubio at point after Rubio started the game. If he is doing this in back-end of a back to back game in November, I have a feeling Rubio won't be seeing the floor much as the calendar turns and may likely be elsewhere after the trade deadline.
LaVine is a beast and still a puppy. Great point about a "defensive orientation" as LaVine may be the primary beneficiary of this teaching as well as playing with lethal perimeter defenders such as Wiggins, Dunn, and (for the time being) Rubio.

Talk heavy about a Taj Gibson deal about to be wrapped up so add a Thibs-guy veteran frontcourt role player......probably for Dieng. It will be interesting to see what the return is on Rubio who isn't likely to make it through the season there.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I was at the T-Wolves at Warriors game last night and I left feeling even more confident that when LaVine, Towns and Wiggins all get some more consistency with age, along with a half-way decent bench (Cole Aldrich, Brandon Rush and Shabazz Muhammad..yikes!), this core is going to compete for a championship. I don't know if Thibs is the guy to help this team find their balance but at least he will give them a good defensive orientation.

LaVine gave Klay Thompson, who is considered a plus defender, fits all night. The guy is slippery as hell and can create his own shot from anywhere on the floor. The other noteworthy thing about Minnesota from this game is that during crunch time, Thibs used Tyus Jones and Dunn instead of Rubio at point after Rubio started the game. If he is doing this in back-end of a back to back game in November, I have a feeling Rubio won't be seeing the floor much as the calendar turns and may likely be elsewhere after the trade deadline.
Wouldn't the tail end of a back-to-back be a completely logical time to rest your starting point guard? Rubio came out of the game down 11 with 2 minutes to play in the 3rd. The 3rd quarter ended with Minnesota down 17 on the road. It never got closer than 13 again. I'm not sure I'd consider being down 15ish points against the best team in the league on the road crunch time.

Also, Kris Dunn played all of 9 minutes in that game, and none of them came with less than 9 minutes to go. Tyus Jones played down the stretch and still logged a total of 13 minutes. I think you'd be hard pressed to look at the distribution of minutes between Rubio, Dunn, and Jones and conclude that Thibs is relying more on Dunn and Jones. In fact, it's much more logical to conclude that Thibs doesn't feel like he can rely on Dunn at all, and that Jones has leap-frogged him for minutes.

Rubio is the best point guard Minnesota has by quite a bit right now. If they're trading Rubio, it's because they're punting on the season. But all of the rumors seem to indicate that Thibs wants to trade youth for experience, which doesn't really jibe with handing the keys over to the Dunn/Jones combo.
 

Kliq

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I don't think you draft Dunn without thinking that he is eventually going to be your starting PG, but right now not only is Rubio getting the bulk of the minutes but for anyone that has watched the Baby Wolves, the team is much better with him on the floor. Rubio is a flawed player who I think will be usurped by Dunn, but having a veteran playmaker that can control the pace and get guys good looks is an asset when you have a bunch of young scorers on the wing and in the post.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Are we so sure Wiggins has taken a step forward? He's been pretty abysmal his last 5 games. Of course he's young so inconsistency comes with the territory. Shooting 27% from the field averaging 16 shots a game. 15pgg, 3rp, 1.2apg, 2.8 TO.

Seems like LaVine is the guy who has taken the step forward. I also really like Gorgui Dieng who gets lost in the shuffle. Underrated passer.

If you could take LaVine or Wiggins, is everyone taking Wiggins?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Wouldn't the tail end of a back-to-back be a completely logical time to rest your starting point guard? Rubio came out of the game down 11 with 2 minutes to play in the 3rd. The 3rd quarter ended with Minnesota down 17 on the road. It never got closer than 13 again. I'm not sure I'd consider being down 15ish points against the best team in the league on the road crunch time.

Also, Kris Dunn played all of 9 minutes in that game, and none of them came with less than 9 minutes to go. Tyus Jones played down the stretch and still logged a total of 13 minutes. I think you'd be hard pressed to look at the distribution of minutes between Rubio, Dunn, and Jones and conclude that Thibs is relying more on Dunn and Jones. In fact, it's much more logical to conclude that Thibs doesn't feel like he can rely on Dunn at all, and that Jones has leap-frogged him for minutes.

Rubio is the best point guard Minnesota has by quite a bit right now. If they're trading Rubio, it's because they're punting on the season. But all of the rumors seem to indicate that Thibs wants to trade youth for experience, which doesn't really jibe with handing the keys over to the Dunn/Jones combo.
Rubio's advanced numbers are down across the board this year......shooting, rebounding, assists, steals. The only one higher is TO% (oooops). He knows this isn't his team anymore and is likely of the mindset that he's playing out the string one season after the team spent a Top-5 draft pick on a player at his position. I'm guessing Thibs stuck with Jones because the team was executing well at the time and had cut into the Warriors lead heading down the stretch.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Rubio's advanced numbers are down across the board this year......shooting, rebounding, assists, steals. The only one higher is TO% (oooops). He knows this isn't his team anymore and is likely of the mindset that he's playing out the string one season after the team spent a Top-5 draft pick on a player at his position. I'm guessing Thibs stuck with Jones because the team was executing well at the time and had cut into the Warriors lead heading down the stretch.
I'm not saying that Rubio's the longterm answer for the Wolves. But short term, there's no question he's their best option, and the assumption a ton of people seem to have that Rubio will be dealt this year seems at odds with the rumors floating around that Thibs wants more experienced vets that he can rely on. I just don't really see what the rush is. Rubio is on a good contract with 3 years remaining, he's clearly their best point guard, and Thibs seems to want experienced vets to compete now.

It's also important to note that the top 5 pick they added at Rubio's position has been, you know, bad. I don't really see why they want to rush into handing him the keys when they have the liberty of taking the time to develop him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm not saying that Rubio's the longterm answer for the Wolves. But short term, there's no question he's their best option, and the assumption a ton of people seem to have that Rubio will be dealt this year seems at odds with the rumors floating around that Thibs wants more experienced vets that he can rely on. I just don't really see what the rush is. Rubio is on a good contract with 3 years remaining, he's clearly their best point guard, and Thibs seems to want experienced vets to compete now.

It's also important to note that the top 5 pick they added at Rubio's position has been, you know, bad. I don't really see why they want to rush into handing him the keys when they have the liberty of taking the time to develop him.
Dunn has been far from bad. He's doing everything Thibs wants out of him which is to distribute and defend. He's got a 9-assist game, a 5-steal game, a RebRate better than frontcourt players on his team. They love him and were told the job will be his at some point this season. He's a rookie.....rookie PG's almost always take time. It took Stockton and Nash a couple years too.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Wouldn't the tail end of a back-to-back be a completely logical time to rest your starting point guard? Rubio came out of the game down 11 with 2 minutes to play in the 3rd. The 3rd quarter ended with Minnesota down 17 on the road. It never got closer than 13 again. I'm not sure I'd consider being down 15ish points against the best team in the league on the road crunch time.

Also, Kris Dunn played all of 9 minutes in that game, and none of them came with less than 9 minutes to go. Tyus Jones played down the stretch and still logged a total of 13 minutes. I think you'd be hard pressed to look at the distribution of minutes between Rubio, Dunn, and Jones and conclude that Thibs is relying more on Dunn and Jones. In fact, it's much more logical to conclude that Thibs doesn't feel like he can rely on Dunn at all, and that Jones has leap-frogged him for minutes.

Rubio is the best point guard Minnesota has by quite a bit right now. If they're trading Rubio, it's because they're punting on the season. But all of the rumors seem to indicate that Thibs wants to trade youth for experience, which doesn't really jibe with handing the keys over to the Dunn/Jones combo.
You may be right but Thibs used Jones down the stretch the night before as well and Jones outplayed Rubio on both nights from a +/- perspective. Rubio is still getting the lion's share of the minutes at the point but its just surprising to see him off the floor for most/all of the fourth quarter in both games. Maybe he is hurt or maybe Thibs wants him to get extra rest (remember who we are talking about here). I don't claim to know the answer. I just think its interesting that Rubio isn't getting run at crunch time both when the Wolves were up against the Suns and within a manageable margin against the Warriors.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Are we so sure Wiggins has taken a step forward? He's been pretty abysmal his last 5 games. Of course he's young so inconsistency comes with the territory. Shooting 27% from the field averaging 16 shots a game. 15pgg, 3rp, 1.2apg, 2.8 TO.

Seems like LaVine is the guy who has taken the step forward. I also really like Gorgui Dieng who gets lost in the shuffle. Underrated passer.

If you could take LaVine or Wiggins, is everyone taking Wiggins?
This is a great question and I am struggling with recency bias. I mean, LaVine looked unstoppable at times on Saturday night while Wiggins looked pedestrian. They are both explosive but both lack consistency as is to be expected at their relatively young ages. I lean Wiggins right now given that as he develops further, he will not only be able go create his shot from anywhere but also physically dominate most guys who guard him on any given night.

Frankly, I am more interested on how the two play together. If they develop a good chemistry with each other and Towns, I think the sky is the limit for these guys. I would love to see what someone like a Brad Stevens could do with this core though to be fair to Thibs, as I noted upthread, their bench is thinner than Brandon Ingram on a carb free diet.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Dunn has been far from bad. He's doing everything Thibs wants out of him which is to distribute and defend. He's got a 9-assist game, a 5-steal game, a RebRate better than frontcourt players on his team. They love him and were told the job will be his at some point this season. He's a rookie.....rookie PG's almost always take time. It took Stockton and Nash a couple years too.
That rookie point guards take time is exactly my point. What's the rush? 9 assist and 5 steal games aside, Dunn hasn't shown a ton and seems to have fallen behind Jones in the PG rotation.
 
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coremiller

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To go along with his excellent scoring, assist and rebounding numbers, James Harden is averaging 5.7 TO per game. I assume that leads the league.
Also in the top 15 in TO/G are LeBron, Giannis, Paul George, Damian Lillard, Kyle Lowry, and Steph Curry. Not surprising that high-usage primary ball handlers tend to rank highly. Assist/TO ratio or TO% are probably better indicators of whether a player turns the ball over too much, since they'll be less influenced by usage.
 

Sam Ray Not

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To go along with his excellent scoring, assist and rebounding numbers, James Harden is averaging 5.7 TO per game. I assume that leads the league.
He and Westbrook are lapping the field (5.7 and 5.5 tpg, respectively). Interestingly, those are also probably the two leading MVP candidates now, if they can get their teams in the top four seeds or so. I am kinda curious if MVP voters care even a little about turnovers. My gut sense is no. I'd imagine a team record of under 50 wins would be a more disqualifying factor than 5.5+ tpg.

Fwiw, B-Ref's MVP tracker (which uses historical precedent to guesstimate the MVP) currently has Kevin Durant at #1, with his two turnover-happy former teammates at #2 and #4 (LeBron at #3).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.cgi

If scoring efficiency and turnovers were even moderate factors, it'd be a big lead right now for KD (off-the-charts .681 true shooting, career-low 2.3 turnovers per game, on top of his usual ridiculous combo of scoring, rebounding, assists, and blocks), especially with his team now on pace for 73 wins. But I imagine the fact that he doesn't have to do nearly as much heavy lifting as Russ and Harden, coupled with the fact that he's already won once, and just general lingering pissiness about him joining the Warriors puts him at a pretty big disadvantage.
 

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Because he lacks the elite quickness/athleticism of the typical superstar wing, Harden's dribble drive game relies so much on reading his defender's balance and positioning. To make a weird inter-sport comparison, it's actually a bit Messi-esque. Wait and wait and wait, keep the ball close, entice the defender a bit and when he eventually lunges, Harden and the ball are off in another direction.

The flip side is that he often looks like a careless idiot when he miscalculates by a fraction of a second and the defender is able to get to the ball before Harden can initiate his move. Of course, turnovers are a different animal than in soccer.