2024 UEFA Men’s European Championship
- Thread starter Dummy Hoy
- Start date
Can’t believe people are giving Matt Crocker shit for preferring this to USMNT Copa matches.
Off the top of my head, that final match day of the Germany-Spain-Japan-Costa Rica group alone had more drama than this entire Euros. That Netherlands-Argentina game was about as insane and intense as any game ever played. The storylines of the France-England (Lloris vs. Kane for example) were great. The final was among the best games ever played. Morocco’s run. The “Where is Messi?” Game. The South Korea stunner at the end of the group stage (and Suarez’s reaction). The entire Messi storyline. If I sat down to think it over, I could come up with more moments and games. This Euros has been ok, especially the last few days, but how quickly forget the drama of that World Cup.
I think this tournament has been pretty boring with a lot of crappy finishing and awkward tactics.
Maybe it is just amnesia and recency bias. But I am loving this tournament. It feels like teams have pulled results from losing positions more in this tournament than in any I can remember. I feel like every game has been on the knife’s edge. Extra time today was dull, but holy shit these four games. I don’t remember this type of vibe for the World Cup, but it’s obviously subjective. I’m loving this, and anyone bellyaching about anything this tournament just feels to me like a nose in the air footy fan missing the better story. (Not you — just some of the bullshit online.). I got nothing to complain about this tournament, and the final four is epic.
They seem to only get resolve and purpose when they’re behind.
I agree that Foden is a big part of the problem. He’s got to be a catalyst for Southgates setup to make any sense, but he’s not been.
There are a lot of talented guys on that bench who could give this side a shot in the arm. Palmer and Eze looked more menacing than Foden in limited action.
The atmosphere has been top notch. I enjoyed the group stage, but feels like teams are hitting a wall now.
True but having watched England collapse time after time after going behind since the Mexico 1986 World Cup, even against lesser teams, it’s pretty refreshing to see them actually have resolve and purpose in such situations
I really didn’t have a dog in the fight for the second game, but I kind of wanted Netherlands to win. Only because I think they have a better chance of beating England, which goes to show how petty and juvenile I am being a Scot.
the world cup takes longer to get going because the group stages are usually not as difficult but I think it's crazy to think this is better than the WC. Argentina, Brazil, and whichever other country in South America is bringing the heat adds a lot to a tournament in the later stages
There are 6 European teams in the top 8 of FIFA world rankings at the moment. The semifinalists are 4 of the 6, with France having knocked out the other 2 (Belgium and Portugal)
You think it’s harder to finish top 3 in a group at the Euros than top two at the World Cup?
Traditional European powers France/Germany/Italy have all failed to make the round of 16 in the World Cup in the past decade.
I think the average quality of a Euro group team is fairly high compared to some of the minnows and “happy to be here” teams in a World Cup. Of course groups of death happen and good teams go out just saying that there are really no lousy teams in the euros and World Cup groups often do have them. It is a good point though that this Euro had so many 3rd seeds go through which made it a bit easier
It will be interesting to see how it affects WC2026. It actually has not been that bad in the last several Euros, though the razor’s edge of the last group games in Copa America have a much different feeling.
Under his capacity as President of the English Football Association, Prince William should have fired Gareth Southgate at the end of the match, thus securing the survival of the monarchy for another 1000 years.
FWIW, all the teams that advanced from the QFs lost in terms of Xgoals. So that's an indication that all 4 teams advanced against the run of play.
FWIW, on the Greek forum i follow, a lot of people complain that the tourney has been boring.
But i used to have the same opinion as you. Usually, there are less crappy teams, more rivalries, better stadiums and better atmosphere.
Alternatively, one semifinal is the pro-Bourbon side of the War of the Spanish Succession (Spain/Castile and France) and the other is the pro-Habsburg side (Great Britain and the Netherlands)
Yes! This is the kind of analysis we are looking for! The other day I was telling someone that this tourney is like March Madness with ancient ethic hatreds involved. At the time Serbia was playing Slovenia, so I told him that 30 years ago Serbian tanks were on the streets of Ljubljana. And some people think they hate Duke because they win too much. Pfffft.
Building on this, if Italy had beaten Switzerland and Austria had beaten Turkey, the quarter finalists would have been the eight signatories of the Peace of Utrecht (1713-1715), assuming Italy stands in for Savoy/Sardinia, Germany for Prussia, and England for Great BritainYes! This is the kind of analysis we are looking for! The other day I was telling someone that this tourney is like March Madness with ancient ethic hatreds involved. At the time Serbia was playing Slovenia, so I told him that 30 years ago Serbian tanks were on the streets of Ljubljana. And some people think they hate Duke because they win too much. Pfffft.
The Everton boards are having fun. Not all Scousers get behind the England side but they’re enjoying his run.
Although England and the Netherlands fought a series of wars for naval and commercial supremacy in the 17th century. And Spain and France fought the bloody and costly Peninsular War during the Napoleonic Wars, when Napoleon tried to make his brother King of Spain after kicking out the Bourbon Spanish king.
The fun thing about Europe is that, if you're willing to go back far enough, just about everyone has fought a war against everyone else at some point.
Kieran Tripper as your only left side outlet doesn't help Harry either. If that's you're style you need someone that's going to provide options. Not a target forward. Just more Southgate brilliance.
Since Shaw was healthy enough to make a sub appearance, I would presume there is a chance he starts on Wednesday.
Yeah that's one way to aid it.
But if you're stuck playing Trip and Walker just go to a more fluid center forward to open up channels and interplay for Foden and Saka. It's just not cohesive thoughts.
Oh I agree. I don't think Kane is fit, but Southgate doesn't have the bottle to drop his captain. 'Hopefully' he picked up a knock when he fell off the pitch that will force a change.
He’s not stuck playing Trip though, he just insists on it. It’s more Kane he’s stuck playing with.
For both teams England and the Netherlands lies a golden opportunity to reach a final. Lets be generous and say both have not played to their potential, both had the luck of being in the right side of the schedule. England has looked flat all tournament. The dutch had their moments against Romenia, but got exposed against Turkey and Austria.
Things being what they are, i dont expect the English to go and high press like Austria and Turkey. I reckon Koeman will send in the same 11 as the last 2 matches, but you never know. You can make the case for starting a deep striker, so Zirkzee who has looked impressive in training or Brobbey put Depay in the 10 position and Xavi on the right wing. You could also stay in this formation and put in Malen for Bergwijn, he has been in great touch. Luxury problems for sure.
The defense has been looking great, but i would put in Van der Ven for Ake. Ake has been flawless but doenst offer anything in offense. The runs Van der Ven made last couple of games have been impressive to say the least, the guy is a beast.
If you want to go for full pressure, put in Weghorst and Van der Ven, drop Xavi and put in malen. Go for safety stay with the same 11 and hope Depay breaks out in this game.
Things being what they are, i dont expect the English to go and high press like Austria and Turkey. I reckon Koeman will send in the same 11 as the last 2 matches, but you never know. You can make the case for starting a deep striker, so Zirkzee who has looked impressive in training or Brobbey put Depay in the 10 position and Xavi on the right wing. You could also stay in this formation and put in Malen for Bergwijn, he has been in great touch. Luxury problems for sure.
The defense has been looking great, but i would put in Van der Ven for Ake. Ake has been flawless but doenst offer anything in offense. The runs Van der Ven made last couple of games have been impressive to say the least, the guy is a beast.
If you want to go for full pressure, put in Weghorst and Van der Ven, drop Xavi and put in malen. Go for safety stay with the same 11 and hope Depay breaks out in this game.
Southgate will setup the team exactly as last game - with the exception of Shaw starting at LWB and Trippier at RWB pushing Saka I to RW (where he more or less played last game). He will Not play AA or Gordon or Toney or Palmer unless they are behind.
kind of a 3-3-3-1
Kane
Bellingham / Foden / Saka
Shaw / Rice/ Trippier
Guehi /Stones/Walker
Pickford
As before there’s no real LW so it’s unbalanced - and relies on a fit Shaw who’s limited on offence. So the Dutch will pack the middle and England makes 400 back passes to Pickford.
kind of a 3-3-3-1
Kane
Bellingham / Foden / Saka
Shaw / Rice/ Trippier
Guehi /Stones/Walker
Pickford
As before there’s no real LW so it’s unbalanced - and relies on a fit Shaw who’s limited on offence. So the Dutch will pack the middle and England makes 400 back passes to Pickford.
Southgate and the FA commissioned a study on the last few championship teams to find commonalities between them, specifically the 2016 Portugal team and the 2018-present France team. They found a distinct break in how the French played in that 2016 final and how they played afterwards. Portugal played a more defensive game and were pretty risk averse, eventually beating the more attack minded French team in that 2016 final. It was almost like Deschaump said “never again”’ and structured France going forward to play more like that Portugal team. They’ve become very difficult to beat, and Southgate has implemented the findings when structuring his England team. Defense wins champions and all that. End result, both France and England are playing pretty dull, risk averse, defensive soccer which makes them very difficult to beat but has resulted in very few chances created too. Basically the plan is that the superior attackers will eventually get a goal without conceding too many chances. England have 5 goals scored in 5 games, many coming when they were forced to open up after falling behind to “lesser” teams. They’ve conceded 3 goals. France only have “scored” 3 goals (one PK and two OGs) and conceded only a penalty to Lewa.
For comparison, Spain have 11 goals for and 2 goals against while the Dutch have 9 goals for and 5 goals against (this including a 0-0 against… France).
TLDR: A France-England final will be a snore fest. A Netherlands-Spain final will likely be much more fun. Any final with one of France or England will result in that squad hoping to make it a boring, cagey game.
For comparison, Spain have 11 goals for and 2 goals against while the Dutch have 9 goals for and 5 goals against (this including a 0-0 against… France).
TLDR: A France-England final will be a snore fest. A Netherlands-Spain final will likely be much more fun. Any final with one of France or England will result in that squad hoping to make it a boring, cagey game.
I’d actually rather he played other teams players and or England were knocked out because pre season is already about to start and some of these players definitely won’t be playing week 1 at this point. Remember that my magnificent team that you all hate has John Stones and Nathan Ake both still playing and it’s like a rule of the universe that neither can stay fit longer than 30 days
Not entirely sure where this fits best, but the Guardian had a rough review of Fox’s coverage of the Summer of Soccer, including a scalding hot opinion on Alexi Lalas:
Lalas, predictably, has been at the heart of Fox’s slickest on-screen moves this summer, and despite a slow start – in which it appeared he’d been deployed as a clown, a pure American idiot to entertain the Europeans on set – he’s grown into the summer impressively. Ponying up in a pastel suite of summer suits from Men’s Wearhouse, his thinning orange locks swept into a Trumpy scroll, the Big A has commanded the desk from his far-right perch with customary charmlessness and belligerence. In a tournament filled with “creative moments of the half, sponsored by IBM”, Lalas often appears to be sponsored by IBS, launching into his uncontrollable verbal tirades (“HOLY SCHICK!”, “THIS IS THE NEW ROMANTIC WAY TO PLAY MY FRIEND!”, “VAR SAYS NEIN!”) with the projectile force of a bout of diarrhea.
I can’t say that the article was unfair, except for their criticism of Clint Dempsey. That man is still national treasure.
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/05/fox-sports-soccer-coverage-us-european-championship-copa-america-alexi-lalas
Lalas, predictably, has been at the heart of Fox’s slickest on-screen moves this summer, and despite a slow start – in which it appeared he’d been deployed as a clown, a pure American idiot to entertain the Europeans on set – he’s grown into the summer impressively. Ponying up in a pastel suite of summer suits from Men’s Wearhouse, his thinning orange locks swept into a Trumpy scroll, the Big A has commanded the desk from his far-right perch with customary charmlessness and belligerence. In a tournament filled with “creative moments of the half, sponsored by IBM”, Lalas often appears to be sponsored by IBS, launching into his uncontrollable verbal tirades (“HOLY SCHICK!”, “THIS IS THE NEW ROMANTIC WAY TO PLAY MY FRIEND!”, “VAR SAYS NEIN!”) with the projectile force of a bout of diarrhea.
I can’t say that the article was unfair, except for their criticism of Clint Dempsey. That man is still national treasure.
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/05/fox-sports-soccer-coverage-us-european-championship-copa-america-alexi-lalas
Yeah, I'm always afraid of my own club's guys getting hurt in these things, much as I enjoy them.