Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

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Rovin Romine

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HomeRunBaker said:
 
I disagree in this instance. If they recover the gun in a random pond in Bristol, CT based on Wallace's cooperation it adds a TON of credibility to this witness. Without Wallace helping them locate the weapon a homeless guy nicknamed "Hobo" is going to get torn apart on the stand. Prosecutors need to be able to say, "We did not have a clue as to where the murder weapon was located until Wallace agreed to cooperate and tell us precisely what he did with the murder weapon following witnessing AH shoot and kill Odin Lloyd."  THIS would be a powerful statement in adding credibility to this scumbag which in this case carries more weight than simply locating a murder weapon.
 
It looks like they are really working on tying additional murder charges on AH here to portray him as essentially a serial killer and not an OJ/Lewis who has a decent risk of walking without a more solid case.
 
If they recover the gun it does add some credibility. 
 
Best case for the state: the gun matches the bullets taken from Lloyd's body, and it has AH's DNA on it.
 
If it's the murder weapon, but there's no DNA/Fingerprint/Ownership match, the argument is still the accomplice shot Lloyd and rolled on AH to save his own skin.  (However, AH still goes down under Accomplice theory.)
 
If there's no conclusive ballistics match and nothing to definitively tie AH to it, the defense argument will be that it's just a gun that a thug found.  Or planted to help himself.  Whereas the state's argument will be something close to what you proposed in your post.  Overall, I think finding the gun would help the state, for the reasons you mentioned, even without conclusive ballistics.  (So long as the caliber is the same.)
 
***
As far as the "showing he's a serial killer" thing - unless the deaths are related by some kind of common plan or occurrence, you don't try all of them together.  Each trial is separate, and you can't refer to any other pending charges.
 
In each trial the state could try to introduce evidence of the other deaths insofar as that evidence goes to "motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident."  Each state has its own standard.  It's usually hard to introduce evidence showing other crimes under those exceptions. I'm not sure how the state would do it here, since the other murders/shootings are factually quite different from this one.  The fact that a rental car was used wouldn't be enough to tie them together.
 

soxfan121

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Rovin Romine said:
As far as the "showing he's a serial killer" thing - unless the deaths are related by some kind of common plan or occurrence, you don't try all of them together.  Each trial is separate, and you can't refer to any other pending charges.
 
Yes. I highly doubt the prosecution or state is the source of the chatter about AH being tied to other crimes in other jurisdictions. Every rumor or development in Florida is Florida PD sources and complicit media covering their collective asses with public relations leaks. Reports of federal charges probably means a justice department intern got drunk at a bar and bragged about "it" to increase his chances of nailing Tammy Lynn. 
 

bosoxsue

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Your live report from the scene: I was just traveled along Pine Street, and the police aren't giving up on that pond. They must be very confident in that tip they got, but I wonder how long these searches usually last before they give up.
 

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HomeRunBaker said:
 
I disagree in this instance. If they recover the gun in a random pond in Bristol, CT based on Wallace's cooperation it adds a TON of credibility to this witness. Without Wallace helping them locate the weapon a homeless guy nicknamed "Hobo" is going to get torn apart on the stand. Prosecutors need to be able to say, "We did not have a clue as to where the murder weapon was located until Wallace agreed to cooperate and tell us precisely what he did with the murder weapon following witnessing AH shoot and kill Odin Lloyd."  THIS would be a powerful statement in adding credibility to this scumbag which in this case carries more weight than simply locating a murder weapon.
 
It looks like they are really working on tying additional murder charges on AH here to portray him as essentially a serial killer and not an OJ/Lewis who has a decent risk of walking without a more solid case.
 
Agreed, and I think I was perhaps unclear. I agree that finding the murder weapon and linking it to AH would be bad for his case. Very bad. I was just suggesting that  finding the murder weapon is not a necessary precondition for a successful prosecution; tv often implies that without the murder weapon the prosecution is fucked, but that's just because it's a nice tangible thing to work plot devices around. As per what RR said, I think AH is fucked, but certaintly finding the weapon and linking it to him would help the prosecution.
 
Have you seen the SNL Twin Peaks skit where every witness corroborates the story, the killer confesses, and even the psychic says that her magic log corroborates the story?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Reverend said:
 
Agreed, and I think I was perhaps unclear. I agree that finding the murder weapon and linking it to AH would be bad for his case. Very bad. I was just suggesting that  finding the murder weapon is not a necessary precondition for a successful prosecution; tv often implies that without the murder weapon the prosecution is fucked, but that's just because it's a nice tangible thing to work plot devices around. As per what RR said, I think AH is fucked, but certaintly finding the weapon and linking it to him would help the prosecution.
 
Have you seen the SNL Twin Peaks skit where every witness corroborates the story, the killer confesses, and even the psychic says that her magic log corroborates the story?
 
 
No, we agree on this point re: murder weapon. I should have been more clear as well in that in this particular instance when the recovery of the murder weapon adds/destroys credibility to the one and only witness who is essentially a homeless person that goes by the name "Hobo" it is VERY important.
 

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bosoxsue said:
Your live report from the scene: I was just traveled along Pine Street, and the police aren't giving up on that pond. They must be very confident in that tip they got, but I wonder how long these searches usually last before they give up.
 
I wonder if they'll just drain the thing.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Ha, just coming to post that. the Keep of Social Media was the icing on the cake. 
 
 
 
I know there is a reason I’m going thru this and I will figure it out through my relationship with the Lord. I fell off, especially after making all that money, but when it’s all said and done “GOD” put me in the situation for a reason!
 
Odin Loyd probably doesn't agree with you or the Lord, Aaron. "I fell off" also sounds like "man i really fucked up and ended up mudering someone or being involved in a murder, so it's partially on me, but I swear I didn't do it.
 
 


I’m humbled by this ALREADY and this will change me forever.
 
He had to put ALREADY in uppercase and underlined? I'm pretty sure we all know that being charged with 1 murder, possibly involved with another double murder, shooting another guy in the face (allegedly), being publicly humiliated, losing your 40 million dollar contract and ending up in jail ALREADY CHANGED HIM.
 

NortheasternPJ

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It really does look like a high school girl's writing. I mean i know from when i was in high school of course.
 

NortheasternPJ

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An athlete's signature is probably the easiest thing to forge with the Interwebs. Google Aaron Hernandez signature, print it out, trace it on paper. 
 
I'm sure experts could figure out the difference though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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NortheasternPJ said:
An athlete's signature is probably the easiest thing to forge with the internet. Google Aaron Hernandez signature, print it out, trace it on paper. 
 
I'm sure experts could figure out the difference though.
 
Authorities confirmed it did come from Hernandez per NECN.
 

mauidano

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Amazing how quick this guy who wrote/received the letter got it to TMZ.  Yeah, you really cared about Hernandez.  Loser and loser.
 

HomeRunBaker

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mauidano said:
Amazing how quick this guy who wrote/received the letter got it to TMZ.  Yeah, you really cared about Hernandez.  Loser and loser.
 
It was likely the intended result by this writer to elicit a response to generate a payment from TMZ and once again Hernandez is played the fool. How frickin stupid can......no, nevermind. We kinda already know this answer.
 

Ed Hillel

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"All the people who turned on me are gonna feel like crap"...when he murders them?
 

StuckOnYouk

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The text handwriting is different from the signature and the words right below the signature, which I don't doubt are AH's..but the text writing sure looks like it's from someone else..his fiancee?
 

worm0082

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That's what I was just about to say. Perhaps they are his words written down as he said them to his fiancee or a lawyer or something and then he signed it. I know people can be lax in punctuation and spelling in texts, but if you flip through his text messages, he doesn't exactly come across as an English major.   I was expecting misspellings and grammatical errors all over the place.
 

soxfan121

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HomeRunBaker said:
 
 
No, we agree on this point re: murder weapon. I should have been more clear as well in that in this particular instance when the recovery of the murder weapon adds/destroys credibility to the one and only witness who is essentially a homeless person that goes by the name "Hobo" it is VERY important.
 
5th day at the pond. Empty box in the basement. The possibly connected search of the construction area south of 128S just past exit 17.
 
Obviously, it could still be found. But if it's missing at trial, I'd expect the state to need to prove to a CSI-Law & Order prepped jury that AH wasn't framed by Hobo in a false confession. It's the Hail Mary scenario for AH, obviously. I trust RR (and others) who make clear AH is facing a mountain of evidence and most likely ends up convicted. But the missing gun and Hobo's wild goose chase for it should figure prominently in AH's defense to raise reasonable doubt. 
 

NortheasternPJ

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WTF? What'd he do? Throw it out the window? Dropped it out the window by mistake? Went for a walk to cool off after the murder and dropped it in the street?
 


They have, however, seized another weapon they say believe Ortiz carried into the house that night: a .22 caliber handgun they found on a street between the park where Lloyd's body was found and the former Patriot's home.
 

The Mort Report

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I'm surprised no one has brought this point up, but the first thing I thought about that letter was it was written and "leaked" on purpose. I get this feeling that his lawyers made him write this, and AH's "pen pal" is someone they had leak the letter to show that behind the scenes he is proclaiming his innocence.  Especially making the whole "keep this off social media" seems forced and placed.  I'm sure also his lawyers check everything he sends to make sure he says nothing incriminating, and if he truly wanted that to stay quiet, I cant imagine his lawyers letting that leave his cell.  Anyone can get in front of a camera or microphone and say they are innocent, but having something that was supposed to never be seen is just too perfect.  I can almost guarantee this is a play by his legal team.  Jury selection has not happened and all it takes is one (dumb) juror to read into that letter as being heartfelt and true
 

Rovin Romine

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The Mort Report said:
I'm surprised no one has brought this point up, but the first thing I thought about that letter was it was written and "leaked" on purpose. I get this feeling that his lawyers made him write this, and AH's "pen pal" is someone they had leak the letter to show that behind the scenes he is proclaiming his innocence.  Especially making the whole "keep this off social media" seems forced and placed.  I'm sure also his lawyers check everything he sends to make sure he says nothing incriminating, and if he truly wanted that to stay quiet, I cant imagine his lawyers letting that leave his cell.  Anyone can get in front of a camera or microphone and say they are innocent, but having something that was supposed to never be seen is just too perfect.  I can almost guarantee this is a play by his legal team.  Jury selection has not happened and all it takes is one (dumb) juror to read into that letter as being heartfelt and true
 
AH may or may not have written it, but I doubt it was a "lawyer approved" communication.  This has "jailhouse lawyer" written all over it - the phrases, the tone, the vague admission of wrong doing, the "I've learned my lesson and will change" sentiment, etc. 
 
Attorneys have very little control over what people do when they're in jail.  I've given clients the comprehensive "If you say shit to anyone, you'll be spending the next 20 Christmases getting cards in prison" speech.  It's part of the standard initial client briefing.  Then I go back to my office with an appointment to see them in two weeks.  Meanwhile, some idiot they share a cell with convinces them that they've got a really good plan for dealing with the situation.  Some of my clients listen to me, while others have gone on to say the most amazing self-incriminating things to jail snitches, to friends or family on the recorded jail phones, or, worse, to write them in letters to the judge, which automatically become part of the public record. 
 
I think my favorite one was for an interlocking probation violation/new felony charge, which involved tampering with a witness.  So post-speech, my client proceeds to "cleverly" use somebody else's jail phone number to call out of jail and ask a friend to do whatever was necessary to buy off or intimidate the witness (the one who was initially tampered with).  The prosecutor played me a recording that went as follows:
 
Defendant: "So I want you to go over to her house and give her some money - remember she can't tell the cops anything."
VoiceOver: "You are calling on the County Jail's telephone system.  All calls made on this system are recorded.  Whatever you say can be used against you. . ."
Defendant's Buddy: "Uh, I don't know. . ."
Defendant: "Man, I hate that recording.  Anyway, it's not rocket science - you just give her what she wants, and if she says no, tell her that it'll be in her best long term interests not to talk to the cops or to show up at the trial."
 
I kid you not.  The Defendant's Buddy actually went through with it, the witness called the detective on the case, the detective arrested the Buddy, the Buddy rolled and turned over his phone records, and the detective then got a copy of the outgoing call from the jail.  (Nice work on his part.)
 
So, the prosecutor asked me (tongue in cheek) if I'd record the conversation I was about to have with my client, as a special favor to him, because, "I have no idea how you're going to break the news to him."  I promised I would use the phrase "It's not rocket science" when discussing the plea offer (which was still, amazingly, on the table.)
 

PaulinMyrBch

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MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
I've got a pretty good one that I'll type up when I have more time.  My favorite letters came from a guy by the name of Dudley, record a mile long, sent a letter a week leading up to his parole hearing, which he always spelled "prol hearing".
 

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Rovin Romine said:
 
AH may or may not have written it, but I doubt it was a "lawyer approved" communication.  This has "jailhouse lawyer" written all over it - the phrases, the tone, the vague admission of wrong doing, the "I've learned my lesson and will change" sentiment, etc. 
 
Attorneys have very little control over what people do when they're in jail.  I've given clients the comprehensive "If you say shit to anyone, you'll be spending the next 20 Christmases getting cards in prison" speech.  It's part of the standard initial client briefing.  Then I go back to my office with an appointment to see them in two weeks.  Meanwhile, some idiot they share a cell with convinces them that they've got a really good plan for dealing with the situation.  Some of my clients listen to me, while others have gone on to say the most amazing self-incriminating things to jail snitches, to friends or family on the recorded jail phones, or, worse, to write them in letters to the judge, which automatically become part of the public record. .)
This x 1000. I do a lot of federal drug cases, and it's SOP for the Feds to wait a week or so after rounding a bunch of guys in a drug conspiracy, then go to the jails they're in and gather up the recordings. Witness tampering, dumb admissions, it's all there - always right after the "all calls from this facility are recorded" warning.

And it's not just the street guys & poor folks that won't listen. Folks who should know better, who are paying serious scratch to hear that "don't say a fuckin' thing to anyone but me about the case" advice, they still say and do breathtakingly stupid things after being warned not to. I wouldn't be shocked, given what we've seen thus far, if Hernandez is dumb and/or arrogant and/or crazy enough to disregard his attorneys' advice, no matter what he's coughing up per hour.
 

The Mort Report

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well apparently I need to spend more time in jail to understand the dealings with lawyers haha.  Even if they had nothing to do with it, I'm sure AH thought it up thinking it would be a great idea.  Can we find this pen pal and see all the other letters.  Is it one of the Pouncey brothers?
 

DJnVa

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AH murdered his uncle while in prison while his uncle was on a motorcycle?
 
What's suspicious?
 

soxhop411

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DrewDawg said:
AH murdered his uncle while in prison while his uncle was on a motorcycle?
 
What's suspicious?
Both of the family members who have died, were potential witnesses I think for AH.
 

HomeRunBaker

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DrewDawg said:
AH murdered his uncle while in prison while his uncle was on a motorcycle?
 
 
While this won't show in AH's murder stats it is his intangibles that makes him so valuable to The Bristol Bloods.
 

Harry Hooper

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Assuming the uncle's death was an accident, would he have been killed while out riding if his vehicle hadn't been impounded by the police?
 

LogansDad

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I just want to add that Hernandez' uncles name was Robert Valentine. 
 
I would just chalk it up to an angry Sox fan getting the wrong guy.
 

Deathofthebambino

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soxhop411 said:
 
The first family member that died was Singleton.  He was the son-in-law of Hernandez' uncle, and he was driving the Uncle's car.  I can't tell from the stories, but is that the same Uncle that died on the moped?
 
RR, not sure how much you read the court docs posted earlier, but what's the reasoning behind identifying the witness as "Male #1" in the documents?  Isn't that the same witness that is one of the co-conspirators or are we talking about someone different?  That immediately struck out to me as it's not like the guy is a confidential informant or something. 
 
A couple of other things I'm really interested in are the 20 or so minute time period between when AH and his buddies left his house in North Attleboro, and ended up at the convenience store where they bought the gum and blunt.  Somewhere during that time period, AH switched seats and became the driver, correct?  This was prior to the shooting.
 
And secondly was that rearview mirror.  It was still intact when they stopped at the gas station, and seems to have been intact, according to all of the random video surveillance, from the time they left Boston to the murder scene, but came off at the murder scene or somewhere close to it, time-frame wise.  Was the mirror that disappeared on the same side of the car that Lloyd would have been seen getting into?  If so, I guess it's pretty obvious that he must have got out of the car and either in an attempt to get away, or when he got shot, he caused it to come off.  Maybe there was actually some sort of struggle amongst the men and that's where the damage on the car, plus the missing mirror, came into being.
 
Anyway, the guy is so fucked, and deservedly so.  I hope after they convict him, he just comes clean and brings closure to all of the other families he's fucked up over the years.  I'm completely convinced that this guy is a psycho that's been shooting and killing folks for a while.  He didn't get out of the "game," he was running it.
 

DJnVa

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soxhop411 said:
Both of the family members who have died, were potential witnesses I think for AH.
 
So, the cops killed him?
 
I don't know, I'm just not seeing where you're going. Unless the uncle was with AH that night, not sure what they are bringing to the table for AH.
 

YTF

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Cops "probing" Hernandez's girlfriend. Could be VERY interesting if she's involved in any way and is willing to cut a deal. Also an interesting position that she's in given her fiancé allegedly murdered her sister's boyfriend. If she's played any role at all in this or knows anything at all, does she stand by her man or spill her guts in an attempt to absolve herself and try to salvage some sort of relationship with her family?
 
http://t.foxsports.msn.com/nfl/report-hernandez-fiancee-probed
 

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dcmissle said:
 
 
If the union fights for him like a tiger, I would understand.  Indeed, I expect it.  Not for AH necessarily, but for the next guy against whom the next case may not be so clear cut.  That's the union's job, to be your only friend in the world if it comes to that.
It looks like a) the Pats are not paying AH's bonuses and b) the NFLPA is fighting them on it: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-aaron-hernandez-unpaid-bonus-money-battle-nflpa-081913
 

axx

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Be interesting to see if Hernandez does get charged in that crime. Then we'd be talking life w/o parole or even the death penalty?
 
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