LOL, you gotta love Magic/LeBron/Klutch taking the muzzle off LaVar now that he's (apparently) pulling in their direction.
Anthony Davis: No Loyalty
- Thread starter HomeRunBaker
- Start date
This really would be an ideal situation for both Ball and the Suns if they could find a way to make it happen. I’m guessing by taking on Solomon Hill’s deal they can be in the discussion as the 3rd team.
Just to add a dissenting note here: in the abstract, I think hard-ass GMs like Ainge (and Belichick) *ought* to pay a price for being hard-asses. If you show you're always prioritizing the team over the individual, some individuals ought to rebel against that trend and decide they don't want to play for your team.
Of course, what usually happens is that the team is so good for other reasons that most players are willing to put up with that lack of support for them as individuals to achieve with the team. And in the current situation, the "Celtics weren't loyal to IT" narrative is bogus and hypocritical in context, so this doesn't apply anyway. But still, Celtics (and Patriots) fans who delight in how driven and focused their management team is by always cutting players loose a year too early rather than a year too late should, on occasion, be made to realize there is a potential downside to such an approach.
Of course, what usually happens is that the team is so good for other reasons that most players are willing to put up with that lack of support for them as individuals to achieve with the team. And in the current situation, the "Celtics weren't loyal to IT" narrative is bogus and hypocritical in context, so this doesn't apply anyway. But still, Celtics (and Patriots) fans who delight in how driven and focused their management team is by always cutting players loose a year too early rather than a year too late should, on occasion, be made to realize there is a potential downside to such an approach.
You also need to consider the cap holds, I think it maxes out at like 20-22M assuming they trade their 1st this year.
If Philly had just listened to me and traded Simmons for Kawhi they could have Kawhi and AD right now.
Pelicans source:
Right now Dell Demps (and Danny Ferry, who’s very much involved in all aspects of Anthony Davis trade situation) are NOT taking Lakers offer @BA_Turner first reported.
Some in Pels organization want LA deal.
I’m told NOLA believes it can get Tatum this summer.
Amin Elhassan on the Jump with an interesting take on another reason why the Celtics aren't on AD's list:
Essentially, he attributes some of it to the comments Ainge made comparing Lebron to Trump (when Lebron called himself the GOAT, 'maybe he’s taking the Donald Trump approach and trying to sell himself.') He likens the comment to when Phil Jackson called Lebron's business partners his 'posse', which rendered the Knicks dead to Klutch (until Jackson was fired, which is why AD has the Knicks on his list now). His timeline seems a little dubious, as Phil's comments came in November 2016, he was fired in 2017 and in 2018 Lebron didn't actually consider the Knicks. But it's still an interesting theory.
Essentially, he attributes some of it to the comments Ainge made comparing Lebron to Trump (when Lebron called himself the GOAT, 'maybe he’s taking the Donald Trump approach and trying to sell himself.') He likens the comment to when Phil Jackson called Lebron's business partners his 'posse', which rendered the Knicks dead to Klutch (until Jackson was fired, which is why AD has the Knicks on his list now). His timeline seems a little dubious, as Phil's comments came in November 2016, he was fired in 2017 and in 2018 Lebron didn't actually consider the Knicks. But it's still an interesting theory.
The short list of why AD isn't going to be a Celtic:
1. Ainge compared Lebron to POTUS
2. Celtics didn't give IT a max deal and then traded him. No loyalty!
3. Kyrie is leaving for the Knicks in July
4. The Rose Rule eliminates the Celtics since the Pelicans would be foolish to wait until July when they can engage more teams to bid for AD.
5. The Lakers offer of youngsters is like giving up three (3) to four (4) 1st Round picks in addition to the two (2) they are offering. That's like SIX (6) 1st Rounders Dell!
6. AD only wants to sign with a winner, a list that includes the Lakers, Clippers, Bucks and Knicks. BTW they are a combined 104-106 this season
7. The Celtics lead offer will be Brown, they can't match all the Lakers young talent and they can't offer salary relief to the Pels like the Lakers can.
8. Ainge acts like Belichick (a known loser). They have it coming to them because they manage in the best interests of their teams. Plus they refuse to overpay players on the downside of their careers.
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The Celtics are pretty much the opposite of this. Ainge is known (justifiably so) as one of the most agent friendly GMs around. Even the Notorious Nets Trade™ was done with the explicit permission of the two main pieces involved. Lil’ Zeke complained about his trade, but, frankly, he’s about the only one. And he’s been openly pining to come back.
And the team has gone out of its way this year to give Morris & Rozier minutes in contract years, plus giving Hayward as much opportunity as possible.
If NOLA's question is whether it can get Tatum, and not how much extra the Cs have to send with him, we are all going to be very happy campers this July 1st.
Like, I would drive Tatum to the airport if it meant we were rolling with AD and keeping Brown, Smart, and MEM.
We gain even greater leverage by including a 3rd team to take on Solomon Hill’s deal, which along with a young star and draft picks is a critical element of any AD deal. They are 25th in Home Attendance WITH Davis last I checked so they have to figure to be at the very bottom without him while accounting for that additional revenue loss.
People are reading way too deep.
Boston isn't on AD's list because he and Paul badly want him traded NOW (and to the Lakers). The only way to get him traded now is to cast doubt on Boston as the highest bidder in July. It's also why the list of team's he'd re-sign with carefully omitted the teams that could put together a package better than the Lakers (Toronto, Denver, etc.) Do we really believe he'd re-sign in MIL, but not in Toronto?
Boston isn't on AD's list because he and Paul badly want him traded NOW (and to the Lakers). The only way to get him traded now is to cast doubt on Boston as the highest bidder in July. It's also why the list of team's he'd re-sign with carefully omitted the teams that could put together a package better than the Lakers (Toronto, Denver, etc.) Do we really believe he'd re-sign in MIL, but not in Toronto?
Exactly. I posted same a page earlier. Klutch is fooling nobody here (except maybe some on internet message boards).
so a Summer trade of Tatum + a healthy Hayward + TL and (2) 1st rounders for AD + Hill gets you filling the tank and donning the driver's cap?
I think it's a very real possibility, but only because Toronto is an exception. It's Canada.
Don’t most people already know this? Everything between now and Thursday is a Klutch ploy.
Would much rather S&T someone to fill the salary spot, and taking Hill back would mean the Cs give up one or zero first rounders, since that's the price of such salary dumps.
Re using Hayward as filler, I'd prefer to S&T Rozier or Morris. But a lot of that depends on how Hayward progresses the rest of this year.
Also, full disclosure, I think Tatum is better than Brown, but also overvalued relative to him by the league.
Yeah, everyone on here knows this.
Doesn't mean the ploy won't work, but if Ainge has told Ferry/Demps that Tatum is available (which it seems he has) , and they believe him, I think they'll hold through the deadline.
Someone upthread raised the specter of Demps getting some sort of under the table quid pro quo for dealing Davis to the Lakers. This is possible if improbable.
My concern is the more realistic scenario of a Demps and team knowing they are essentially dead people walking and arriving at the conclusion that if they want to work in the NBA again in whatever capacity, they need to play by Klutch's rules.
Once again, a Davis trade more than likely yields the largest return during the offseason. However if Demps knows he is more than likely gone after the season, his best interest isn't necessarily served by making the best deal for New Orleans. As someone else pointed out when this story broke, Demps should really not be overseeing this process. I think that it is our collective hope that any trade he is working on has to have a final sign-off by ownership. Otherwise, I can see a situation where LeBron/Klutch induces him into a trade with a message that they will take care of him on the follow.
My concern is the more realistic scenario of a Demps and team knowing they are essentially dead people walking and arriving at the conclusion that if they want to work in the NBA again in whatever capacity, they need to play by Klutch's rules.
Once again, a Davis trade more than likely yields the largest return during the offseason. However if Demps knows he is more than likely gone after the season, his best interest isn't necessarily served by making the best deal for New Orleans. As someone else pointed out when this story broke, Demps should really not be overseeing this process. I think that it is our collective hope that any trade he is working on has to have a final sign-off by ownership. Otherwise, I can see a situation where LeBron/Klutch induces him into a trade with a message that they will take care of him on the follow.
Once again, the problem here is that Klutch=Anthony Davis. AD hired Klutch because he wants to go to LA. They're not steering him there against his wishes. AD himself is fully complicit in the ploy.
And in the Spring of 2020, when the Celtics are putting on the full court press to get him to stay, Klutch will be fighting it every step of the way unless AD changes agents again.
The Celtics will survive without Davis. The Pelicans are the ones being screwed here.
And in the Spring of 2020, when the Celtics are putting on the full court press to get him to stay, Klutch will be fighting it every step of the way unless AD changes agents again.
The Celtics will survive without Davis. The Pelicans are the ones being screwed here.
No one is putting a gun to Demps’ head to force him to make the deal by Thursday afternoon.
Davis just hired Rich Paul of Klutch as his agent to orchestrate his exit from New Orleans. Everything they are doing is at his direction.
Woj’s latest. Pelicans sounds like they are not happy with the offers from LA and will wait until July to deal Davis.
Woj on Ainge/Celtics still hot after him and Pels organization is leaning towards the chance at getting Tatum.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25927397/some-pelicans-organization-want-wait-anthony-davis-trade
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Bulpett’s latest. Celtics are not trading Kyrie. Ainge has had numerous conversations about Davis and communication lines are still open. His sources say the Pelicans still prefer the Celtics potential package. Ainge is not worried about trading for Davis without an extension.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/04/celtics-sheltering-irving-from-the-trade-deadline-whirlwind/
https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/04/celtics-sheltering-irving-from-the-trade-deadline-whirlwind/
"As the Lakers elevate their offer, including more top young players and even more draft picks into the offer, they'll keep closing the gap. " How can they add more top young players, when they already have Ball, Ingram and Kuzma in there? Hart and Zubac? And any draft picks they have to offer are going to be late firsts. Just doesn't make any sense.
Maybe Danny should hold Tatum out with a phantom injury until the summer. His stock seems pretty high for someone who still could easily turn into Rudy Gay. Joking of course.... but the Tatum hype to me is a bit odd after his pedestrian year so far.
I'd value him over any of the Lakers individual pieces and still think NO should wait until the summer to make up their minds (they should definitely wait to see who gets #1 lotto pick IMO). But the way some talk about Tatum as a near automatic all-star or all-NBA player is a bit much.
I'd value him over any of the Lakers individual pieces and still think NO should wait until the summer to make up their minds (they should definitely wait to see who gets #1 lotto pick IMO). But the way some talk about Tatum as a near automatic all-star or all-NBA player is a bit much.
We discussed this upthread but just to reiterate, while I think most here would agree with you that Tatum has not progressed as much as we would have hoped, he is the player with the most star-power attached to these trade reports/rumors/speculation. And if you are New Orleans, who has their collective backs to the wall from Davis/Klutch, getting a young "star" back is almost imperative.
Frankly, as long as Tatum stays healthy and Stevens doesn't do anything silly with his usage, he will still be a get for New Orleans. While his shooting has taken a hit and his RPM is down, he is up across the board in FT%, Rebounds, assists and blocks. If Ainge has, indeed, signaled that he is available, the Pelicans should hold out. Whether they can/will is obviously another story.
I was expecting NOP to panic and take the best Lakers deal but they've been doing this right so far.
Still plenty of time for them to panic but this is encouraging. Sounds like Ainge is basically all set to trade Tatum+ for AD as soon as he’s able to. Would be a ballsy trade, that’s for sure.
Agreed. I still feel like AD ends up on the Lakers with a broken LeBron, a new coach and no other assets.
I don’t believe for one second that Kyrie goes if AD is brought in. But, yeah, the thought of losing Tatum for one year of AD is pretty scary.
Celtics fans maybe but based off a small sample of Twitter threads most fans don’t think the Celtics have a shot. The primary reasons are “Ainge won’t beat Lakers offer for a rental” and “He’s not on their list.”
I don’t agree with this. Demps isn’t going to risk his NBA career by not fulfilling his job responsibilities to the best of his ability. He also could only be handling the heavy work while having any final agreements to a deal being approved by ownership which is normally the case around the league......I’m suspecting even in Boston with as much as Wyc is involved.
I agree that in most instances, ownership is involved in transactions like this and I think New Orleans would be crazy to grant Demps carte blanche in finalizing a trade of this magnitude. However, it wouldn't be a complete leap to think that Demps is not in a good spot regardless of how the Pelicans make out on this trade.
My only point is that while waiting until the offseason to make a deal likely raises the expected return for the Pelicans, Demps may have other considerations. You may see it as risking his NBA career but he may see doing the Lakers a solid as an option at working at some other spot where Klutch has some influence.
This is not my base case - its simply a risk to the view that the Lakers cannot get this transaction done this week with the reported pieces and/or others because Boston etc can beat that deal down the road.
I mean he HAD to be willing to take on Wallace since they needed him to be included to make the financials work. They even had to sign a ready-to-retire Keith Bogans to a $5m sign-n-trade, double his previous single-season high, to make the numbers work even with Wallace. Their really wasn’t any choice in the matter.
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Apparently Woj was on SC and said this: "But the Pelicans aren’t countering their offers yet. Here’s what I’m told the Pelicans want to hear. Not two first round picks. Four first round picks. Second round picks. So, like, at this point for the Pelicans, if they’re going to do something by Thursday, they’re going to have to be blown away…"
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2019/02/04/la-lakers-rumors-news-new-orleans-pelicans-four-first-round-picks-lakers-anthony-davis-lebron-james/
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2019/02/04/la-lakers-rumors-news-new-orleans-pelicans-four-first-round-picks-lakers-anthony-davis-lebron-james/