I'd be looking for a floor stretching big. I don't think you can have three of your 9 rotation guys in Smart, Zizic and backup big be non-shooters.
Cap Clearing trade?
- Thread starter Cellar-Door
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Only stretch big we have outside of Horford at the moment is Theis. He's more Jerebko than Olynyk. Kinda shocked Yabu might actually be staying overseas too. Seems like he'd have a role here but there are already a lot of rookies on the team.
Well they are betting on Harry Giles, but Boston has ways of sweetening the pot. And the Kings are pretty unloaded at the SF spot considering that their primary option there at the moment is Justin Jackson.
Boston can soften the Labissiere loss with draft picks or draft rights to someone like Yabu (to soften the blow).
Interestingly enough, Tatum has essentially the same standing reach as Labissiere, so you can see his future at the 4.
I think Tatum ends up playing a lot of 4 in the future but in the now he needs to add some weight. And I was just thinking that Yabu was a trade candidate. I don't believe he's staying overseas for a 2nd year until it's actually confirmed. Especially since he was already in the D League.
Stashing Yabu seems one of the more obvious ways to get under the cap. Saves us from having to move two of Smart/Crowder/Bradley.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. Crowder is redundant and they need to give Rozier another year of seasoning before AB goes to have a quality guard. There's also the scenario that IT is toast with the hip issue and AB sticks around, but they put themselves in that position when they passed in Fultz.
I see folks talking about Labissiere with the Kings but what about Willie Cauley Stein who I've had a man crush on since I saw him chasing guards effectively around the perimeter at Kentucky. Or is that a ridiculous ask because he's becoming good.
To get him, you'd probably have to move the LAL/Sac pick since nothing else we have would entice them. Plus they really need a stretch big other than Horford and Theis. To get WCS, we'd be ripping them off or they'd be ripping us off. Maybe you could work out a trade with multiple players but I don't see it.
Bradley can't replace Lil' Zeke if the hip's an issue. Smart would then need to remain as the offensive initiator (whether he's playing the 1 or 2). So it would still be Crowder outbound either way.
The Kings signed Randolph and George Hill, so if they're able to replace Labissiere as a prospect, they might be amenable to the big upgrade at the SF spot. And improving them as a means of putting the boots to LA has a lot of built-in schadenfreude for us.
Is Marvin Williams (Charlotte) a potential option as a stretch 4? He's making 13m, but they just added Dwight Howard to a front court that includes Cody Zeller and Kaminsky, so Williams might be a bit superfluous. Given their cap situation, might they be willing to move his remaining 3/44m? Career 35% 3pt shooter. They've got Batum signed forever and just drafted Monk, so I'm not sure AB would be all that appealing, so it might require getting a 3rd team involved.
I am going to have such a sad when AB gets dealt. It's the move though. Unless Ainge has something up his sleeve, it's the smart move. The only thing that makes me feel better as a fan is the Danny is going to be even sadder to do it, so when he does deal him, I will know he really thought it through.
Wasn't implying AB would play PG for IT, in fact saying the same thing you are, that Smart would need to be the primary PG and Rozier isn't ready to take a big role yet. If you out Smart at OG you need AB's shooting to offset.
Agree with this. AB has a skill that no one else on the roster has - and that is guard smaller, quicker guards (like Kyrie and Curry etc.)
That being said, I wonder how AB would react to being on the team this upcoming year since his numbers are probably going to drop quite a bit and he's on a contract year. Lesser character players have taken it into their hands to get their numbers up. Wonder how AB would react.
As others have mentioned, I could see SAC wanting Crowder considering their SF situation is pretty bleak. No chance they give up Skal though, but Cauley Stein would be a nice addition to this team. The difference in his and Crowder's salary would be enough to not have to make any othe rmoves.
Those talking about trading Crowder are not thinking sufficiently about the future. Crowder is a bargain for 3 more seasons AND is the best player out of he, Bradley, or Smart. The Celtics were going to walk away from one of Bradley or Smart no matter what in a year. One of them will be the player that is traded to create room for Hayward.
Except Crowder is now somewhat redundant, given Hayward, Brown and Tatum. He also is a potential malcontent and as you mention, he's a bargain so he likely has the most trade value.
Smart and Bradley can be retained and the window he closed on FA signings, so retaining guards - when the home run scenario is bigs in next year's draft - seems to make more sense than keeping a redundant 3/4.
Had they drafted Fultz I'd agree, but as it is, I think they should retain backcourt depth, trade Jae for a big (if possible) and then transition from there.
I think the Celtics are going to listen to offers for all three and take the best one relative to the value of each player. Yes, Crowder is the most valuable asset because of his contract but if they get an offer that makes sense they will take it.
Crowder to Denver kinda makes sense. Wilson Chandler is their current SF and he's pretty brittle. Probably no chance we could get Juan Hernangomez but it would clear enough cap space. Not sure it would help much with our inexperienced big man situation either but he'd provide spacing.
Which is exactly why if you're trying to bring back a quality big man he might end up being the one traded.
A deal with Memphis set up around Bradley/Crowder for JaMychal Green/Wade Baldwin might simultaneously help create the necessary space while helping Boston at the 4.
But, again, given that Boston has three young players ticketed for the 4 spot, I'm not sure they look at it the same way we do. (Much like they clearly don't look at the rebounding issue the same way that we do, although JMG would really help in that department.)
But, again, given that Boston has three young players ticketed for the 4 spot, I'm not sure they look at it the same way we do. (Much like they clearly don't look at the rebounding issue the same way that we do, although JMG would really help in that department.)
The biggest unknown is how well IT recovers from his very serious hip injury without surgery. Do we really think DA is going to roll the dice that IT is going to be healthy the whole year? Even though AB has the largest salary of the 3, he's also the best player of them also. Smart is too inconsistent offensively and Crowder imo did not look to be the same player last year (seemed to be a step slow). Crowder also happens to play the same position as Brown, Tatum, and Hayward and got his panties in a bunch when the Boston fans were applauding and showing love to Hayward.
If IT isn't ready, a backcourt of AB/Smart (with AB defending the point and Smart playing point guard on offense) is our best alignment. Rozier showed enough promise that we can probably project him as a backup point guard, but not enough to show he's a starter. Crowder to me is the odd man out.
If IT isn't ready, a backcourt of AB/Smart (with AB defending the point and Smart playing point guard on offense) is our best alignment. Rozier showed enough promise that we can probably project him as a backup point guard, but not enough to show he's a starter. Crowder to me is the odd man out.
I kind of think the Celtics have to field offers for all three of them and take the best offer. Not 'the highest offer', but the most favorable deal for the Celtics.
I think everyone knows that Crowder is my favorite player on the team and I think he's far better than the median SoSH opinion (though maybe his critics are just more vocal). But all of a sudden the team is loaded with SF types. Sure you can move Hayward back to the 2, but I shudder a little bit thinking about how a team with he and Thomas would defend against the better backcourts of the East. Then again, I'm not Brad. Maybe they think he could hang better than I do.
But that's only half of my point. Who's out there that can use Bradley or Smart for a year before they get expensive? I think it's a smaller list of teams than the list that would find appeal in Crowder, and more competition creates a better market. In general, though, I'm sympathetic to the idea that all three are on the market and Danny will evaluate the best offer and work from there.
Also, if it's Smart then Ainge and Stevens must have more faith in Rozier and IT's hip than we do.
I'd have to think that it's not so much about who is going but what the actual trade might be. Would you move AB if it meant getting a shot blocker/rebounder? Or Rozier if it meant getting a lottery protected 1st rounder. Etc etc.
AB or Crowder for a serviceable (and cheaper) rotation big elegantly solves all the roster problems. FWIW, I'd also prefer to deal AB. This mgmt team has shown they're not too locked in to "positions", i.e., they would have no problem with 3 of GH, JB, Crowder and Taytum sharing the floor for significant stretches.
The problem is that to save enough money in this, you need to trade AB for a rotation big making less than 6.85m, and that list is pretty miserable. Guys like Spencer Hawes, Ed Davis, Brandan Wright, Jason Smith. There's plenty of young guys in that price range still on their rookie deals, but it's hard to find anyone that you'd want to give minutes to that would be available for AB. So it seems like if you start from "AB for rotation big", you either (1) get a really crappy big, (2) add Crowder/Smart to expand the range of salaries you can be looking at, or (3) start including draft pick assets (including yabusele) to get a younger player.
FWIW, I'm moving more and more to the move AB camp. I think Ainge/Stevens really want to look at roster construction as PG / 2-4 mix and match / C (there are some nice quotes out there to this end after they drafted tatum), and AB just seems like the worst fit for that in terms of positional flexibility. Smart's size, ability to post up, and defensive flexibility actually make him a good, if non-prototypical, fit for that. If you move AB, you can still run out:
PG: IT/Rozier
2-4: Hayward/Crowder/Smart/Brown/Tatum
C: Horford/Zizic
Even here there's some flexibility, since Horford can play a stretch 4 role at times, and you can quibble on where Rozier should be, but I think this group maximizes lineup flexibility compared to keeping AB. But again, I don't see a great deal out there for just AB that complements this lineup while also shaving the ~1.9m they need from the cap.
I'll take the opposite side of the AB choice.
I think he's the best all around player as among him, Crowder and Smart, and I would rather roll with my best next year and figure out what happens after next year. I readily concede that Danny will need to find a big man or two, or find one among the various relative unknowns he now has, but he will have that problem whether he keeps Crowder or not.
I also think that Crowder may have difficulty functioning on a team with his replacement having been brought in with such fanfare and cost.
Isn't Bradley and a 2nd to Philly for Richaun Holmes a deal that makes sense for everyone involved? Philly gets another backcourt guy who is a good fit for their team, they can bring Fultz along without being forced to start him. Boston gets a cheap big who fits what they need
Kevin O' Connor on twitter mentioned something about a sign & trade for JaMychal Green, Figure Green makes around 11 million a year on this new contract, wouldn't the trade have to be Bradley and Crowder or is it possible to do a Bradley/Demetrius Jackson trade and make the salaries work?
Kevin O' Connor on twitter mentioned something about a sign & trade for JaMychal Green, Figure Green makes around 11 million a year on this new contract, wouldn't the trade have to be Bradley and Crowder or is it possible to do a Bradley/Demetrius Jackson trade and make the salaries work?
Bradley is the only player who can walk away for free next year, correct? Crowder has several more affordable years and Smart has to get a qualifying offer and if so, is a restricted free agent?
Then why is Bradley not the no-brainer lock to be moved? Sure, he's an All-NBA defender but he's also got no upside and is about to become more expensive than the team can afford. Auction him for the best (future) draft pick you can get, clear the money, and roll into next year with IT insurance (i.e. Smart) and a productive bench/role player (Crowder).
Then why is Bradley not the no-brainer lock to be moved? Sure, he's an All-NBA defender but he's also got no upside and is about to become more expensive than the team can afford. Auction him for the best (future) draft pick you can get, clear the money, and roll into next year with IT insurance (i.e. Smart) and a productive bench/role player (Crowder).
I think Philly would want a first for Holmes, and would at least start by asking for one of the premium firsts. And/or that we take Okafor's deal.
If you are Philly, and you've got Redick and Stauskas already there's limits to AB's value...they do want to win more this year, and they can flip AB for a pick later on, but if I were them those are worth less than Holmes to me.
If you are Philly, and you've got Redick and Stauskas already there's limits to AB's value...they do want to win more this year, and they can flip AB for a pick later on, but if I were them those are worth less than Holmes to me.
The Sixers just spent 23 million dollars on a 2 guard, and drafted a guard number one overall. They currently have Fultz, Redick, Anderson, Bayless, McConnell, and Luwawu-Cabarrot in their guard rotation. The odds that they'd give up a real asset for an UFA seem pretty slim to me.
They also just signed Korkmaz after he was bought out from Andalou Efes. Bradley makes little sense for them now.
It'd have to be two of Bradley/Crowder/Smart.
I mentioned Marvin Williams somewhere, but I think he'd be a nice target for AB+Crowder. Salaries work out just about perfectly (you might have to cut Mickey, and/or sign someone to the minimum or something, but it's just about there), and it feels like a good fit on both sides. Charlotte has Howard/Zeller/Kaminsky inside who should all get minutes, but they could use some more rotation wing types, where they have Batum, a rookie (Monk) and Kidd-Gilchrist who's a big meh.
The other place I'd look is Denver. After signing Millsap and trading for Lyles, they're really crowded at PF, with Faried, Hernangomez, and Darrel Arthur, even Wilson Chandler and their draft pick (Lydon), as well as Jokic at C, which means it's going to be hard to find minutes for all these guys. I doubt you can get them to move Hernangomez, but I'd at least ask. I don't know much about Arthur, but salary-wise he gets you pretty close if you want to move just AB (saves 1.4m). He seems like a back end of the rotation type, though. Wilson Chandler for AB+Crowder might make some sense. Would give DEN a bit more positional balance, and Chandler seems like the positionally-flexible type the C's might like.
People need to be looking at trade exemptions and lowering their expectations accordingly.
Teams with large exemptions:
Chicago (Butler ~15M)
Dallas (Bogut ~6.6M)
LA Clippers (Paul ~7.2M)
There are probably some non guaranteed contracts worth considering, too.
Teams with large exemptions:
Chicago (Butler ~15M)
Dallas (Bogut ~6.6M)
LA Clippers (Paul ~7.2M)
There are probably some non guaranteed contracts worth considering, too.
Trade exemption means that the acquiring team can absorb the contract without a match, correct.
If Doc were still running the show in Clipperland he'd be the obvious guy to acquire Bradley, who played for him once, for a future first.
As it goes, Bradley's contract is too large for the Clippers TPE.
Crowder fits, though. I could see him going for air and the crummy Houston draft pick.
On some level, I think he will be traded so Ainge can maintain good relationships with his agency (granted, they don't have a huge NBA client base). If that's not a good enough reason, the Celtics can get more now than later if Crowder starts demanding a deal.
Like I said, low expectations.
Bringing back last year's squad with Hayward in lieu of Amir would be such an upgrade. Dumping one of Smart / Bradley / Crowder to fit him is going, as Danny said in the post-draft press conference, to sting a little bit. I'd be surprised if Crowder is the one to go. The C's have already cleared out five frontcourt players to clear salary -- two rotational (Amir and Kelly), two backups who played (Zeller and Jerebko) and a project (Mickey) -- and I don't think they'd want to add a sixth. Besides, his contract is so favorable as payroll expands. I think that his disappointment with the fans' recruitment of Hayward will be assuaged when he plays alongside him, rather than is replaced by him. And while he may be suboptimal when compared with some platonic ideal of a PF, he is a swing who will fit in Stevens's system of positionless basketball. The player whom it would hurt least to lose in 2017-2018 would be Marcus Smart, as the dropoff from him to Terry Rozier as a bench player is probably least impactful. And I could see Ainge moving on from him, as he's doing with KO, for cap space, particularly if he intends (contrary to popular opinion) to extend Avery Bradley. If he doesn't, then Bradley is the logical choice to go, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Philly, only for Jahlil Okafor. There's been a lot of smoke there for a while, and it makes sense for both squads. The Celtics get a young big with a good pedigree hoping that he can grow up within a winning culture and develop under a quality coaching staff. The Sixers bring in another veteran to try to create that winning culture but one whose salary conveniently comes off the books next summer, bringing Okafor's with it, when they try to make their own splash in free agency.
Bradley is an interesting fit in OKC if they are willing to let Roberson walk to pay for him. Not much I see coming back in assets that way, however. That would set OKC up with even more guys 'up' next offseason so perhaps favorable to locking in multiple years.
