zenter said:
Hoping you meant "missed". Yes, they could in that case. It's unlikely though.
I don't get if you just don't do jokes or you are playing a character that never gets jokes
zenter said:
Hoping you meant "missed". Yes, they could in that case. It's unlikely though.
sibpin said:Putting it all together... in the last 18 months
Danny traded:
Paul Pierce (1yr)
Kevin Garnett (2yrs)
Doc Rivers (3yrs)
Jason Terry (2yrs)
DJ White (1yr)
Leandro Barbosa with a torn ACL
Jason Collins (1yr)
unknown 2nd-round pick
for:
2014 BKN unprotected 1st-round pick (James Young)
2015 PHI protected 1st-round pick
2015 LAC unprotected 1st-round pick
2016 CLE protected 1st-round pick
2016 BKN unprotected 1st-round pick
2018 BKN unprotected 1st-round pick
Right to swap 1st-round picks with BKN in 2017
2016 MIA 2nd-round pick
Keith Bogans non-guaranteed contract
Gerald Wallace (3yrs)
Kris Humphries (1yr)
Marcus Thornton (1yr)
In short, 6 first-round picks (4 unprotected) in exchange for 1 season of Pierce, 2 seasons of KG, 3 seasons for Doc, and taking on Wallace's albatross. This is an unbelievable return.
And none of those mentioned required to match a percentage of an $8.7m contract. The only one close was Turner......and he fetched a guy the 76ers bought out the next day.Grin&MartyBarret said:
Players traded to playoff teams last year: Andre Miller, Jordan Crawford, Marshonn Brooks, Courtney Lee, Gary Neal, and Evan Turner. It's not exactly unheard of.
HomeRunBaker said:And none of those mentioned required to match a percentage of an $8.7m contract. The only one close was Turner......and he fetched a guy the 76ers bought out the next day.
luckiestman said:I don't get if you just don't do jokes or you are playing a character that never gets jokes
BigSoxFan said:Seriously? If the Wolves liked what the Celtics had to offer, this deal would have been done already. They clearly don't.
Just let him dislike this trade. He's been trying all day.BigSoxFan said:Seriously? If the Wolves liked what the Celtics had to offer, this deal would have been done already. They clearly don't.
Wiggins is the promise of serious return for Minnesota giving up Love. Once the lottery put the Celtics at #6, Ainge never really had a chance at Love.BigSoxFan said:Seriously? If the Wolves liked what the Celtics had to offer, this deal would have been done already. They clearly don't.
Yes, because without the Celtics, the Cavs would never have been able to find another trade partner to offload Jarrett Jack, so Ainge should clearly try and anticipate 1.) where unrestricted free agents will go, 2.) future moves that other teams will make, and 3.) other teams' cap space BEFORE he ever thinks about updgrading the Celtics situation first from a talent, draft pick, and cap flexibility standpoint. That's just not how roster moves work . . . . in any sport.HomeRunBaker said:Wojo now reporting Cleveland dangling Wiggins to Minnesota for Love. Way to go Danny.....facilitate cap space for Cleveland to lure LeBron, which is fine on its own, that they now have motivation to steal your #1 target in Love.
If this goes down its indefensible and the Cavs have the best offer to boot.
Brickowski said:If Flip takes Wiggins, Varejao and other scraps for Love (presumably that's the deal) instead of what the Celtics have to offer, he's an idiot. Wiggins is very, very far away from being a sure thing. But I'm glad he's an idiot.
HomeRunBaker said:Wojo now reporting Cleveland dangling Wiggins to Minnesota for Love. Way to go Danny.....facilitate cap space for Cleveland to lure LeBron, which is fine on its own, that they now have motivation to steal your #1 target in Love.
If this goes down its indefensible and the Cavs have the best offer to boot.
Sullinger, Bradley, James Young and multiple unprotected first round picks. I wouldn't be surprised if Young, who can shoot lights out, turns out to be a better NBA player than Wiggins.I would love to hear how the C's could top Wiggins alone.
???Brickowski said:Sullinger, Bradley, James Young and multiple unprotected first round picks. I wouldn't be surprised if Young, who can shoot lights out, turns out to be a better NBA player than Wiggins.
There was a small flurry of tweets a few days ago about Ainge getting 'creative' in a last-ditch attempt to shake Love loose. I'd think that everything Ainge had was on the table, and that evidently was not enough, since Ainge just disposed of one of his major assets in the traded player exception.bowiac said:Do we know Ainge offered "multiple unprotected" picks?
beezer said:I'd say Wiggins is a much better asset than anything the C's could have offered. I'd rather have a dollar in Wiggins than 4 quarters in some combination of Sullinger, Young, Olynyk, picks. Sullinger's a good player, but I'd imagine every GM would take Wiggins over him in a nanosecond
He'd probably sign a deal the same length as Lebron's.jon abbey said:Are we so certain that Love would sign a new deal in CLE?
Well, it's not just here, he went #1 in a very good draft. Plus, we know, you've been banging this drum for a while now.Brickowski said:IMHO folks here are seriously overrating Wiggins. Enjoy:
The Wiggins thing is an appreciation that the guy who went #1 overall tends to be very good. My own "sense" of Wiggins in his own right is that he was like the 7th or 8th best prospect. But the fact that he was the consensus #1 guy after Embiid went down is a pretty big data point that I'm wrong.DannyDarwinism said:Well, it's not just here, he went #1 in a very good draft. Plus, we know, you've been banging this drum for a while now.
Who is a sure thing? And what established players could the Celtics offer??Brickowski said:What drum? Wiggins has upside, but that's all it is. He's no sure thing. Didn't we see reports a few weeks ago that Saunders, who would also be coaching the team, wanted established NBA players in return for Love, not young, unproven players?
I actually don't recall him ever being the #3 guy. By the time people came around on Embiid, opinions on Parker had slipped a bunch. Either way, he did actually go #1. I'm not sure what salience opinions in November have, before we'd seen these guys play conference opponents.Brickowski said:Wasn't he the consensus #3 guy after Embiid and Parker for a good part of the season?
Well since Parker and Embiid are not on the table as of the moment, does it even matter?Brickowski said:Wasn't he the consensus #3 guy after Embiid and Parker for a good part of the season?
Plenty of established players, but not very good ones.Who is a sure thing? And what established players could the Celtics offer??
The "Wiggins is overrated" drum. Which should have been obvious from the one point, one sentence I quoted from you. Calm down, its an observation, not a criticism.Brickowski said:What drum?
No.Brickowski said:Wasn't he the consensus #3 guy after Embiid and Parker for a good part of the season?
Time will tell if Wiggins is a good as advertised.The "Wiggins is overrated" drum. Which should have been obvious from the one point, one sentence I quoted from you. Calm down, its an observation, not a criticism.
Time will tell, Brick. Time will tell.Brickowski said:Time will tell if Wiggins is a good as advertised.
I suspect when the details of this trade come out fully, it'll be an Ainge special top 55 protected second round pick going to Cleveland, which gets extinguished to nothing after a year.HomeRunBaker said:There isn't any downside.....nor is there much upside which is why I'm still yawning. We'll end up swapping our 35th pick with the 28th and add a limited skilled backup/marginal starting 5. We just had one of those in Kardashian.
I don't see anything here to find a reason to see this trade having much if any impact.
Edit: If I was calling for Ainge's head that would be one thing. I'm not, I'm wondering how much of it was Ainge personally shoving a big one up Riley's ass more than anything else. I've got no problem with that.
Brickowski said:What drum? Wiggins has upside, but that's all it is. He's no sure thing. Didn't we see reports a few weeks ago that Saunders, who would also be coaching the team, wanted established NBA players in return for Love, not young, unproven players?
Sprowl said:There was a small flurry of tweets a few days ago about Ainge getting 'creative' in a last-ditch attempt to shake Love loose. I'd think that everything Ainge had was on the table, and that evidently was not enough, since Ainge just disposed of one of his major assets in the traded player exception.
I do think this is an assumption we're all making, but it's a good to highlight. The TPE was essentially useless to the Celtics, but held value to the Cavs for the LeBron chase.bryan1918 said:I think one aspect that's been missed in this discussion is the fact that Thornton's salary is actually a more flexible asset than the TPE, and not just because it lasts more than three more days. While player salaries can be combined in the same transaction, the TPE could not be combined in this way, or at least that's my understanding of the current CBA rules. So, for example, you couldn't use the TPE to acquire a player making more than the TPE, while you could use Thornton's salary if you combined it with Bogans' deal or similar.
Yes, for further deals, but Thornton doesn't offer much more value to a potential trade for Love (directly). Wiggins or the GSW offer are much more attractive if I'm Flip Saunders unless Ainge throws more picks than we're all comfortable with. I don't see the Cs offering a non-Rondo package that the Wolves would jump at.I agree that if Wiggins is in play then the Celtics will have trouble beating that offer, but moving the TPE for Thornton's salary I think actually increases the Celtics' ability to make further deals, it doesn't diminish it.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:How in the living hell can anyone think the C's could ever trump an offer of Wiggins?
Nobody is claiming he is a sure thing but he was the number one pick in the draft AND he is defensible to Minnesota fans (something some here are underestimating). As has been said multiple times, once the C's drew the sixth slot, they were effectively out of the game.
I know a lot of folks beg to differ but a Golden State offer of Lee and Thompson is likely more compelling than what the C's could offer unless Ainge sent a metric shit-ton of picks along with one of Smart/Young, Sully, Olynk (essentially what bowiac said). If Ainge did that, he'd be pilloried here and widely for putting all of his eggs in the basket of a player who, as we have seen from multiple threads here, may be vastly overrated by NBA metrics and is almost certainly the type of player who needs a certain system to succeed. That system isn't even close to existing in Boston.
https://twitter.com/APkrawczynski/status/486982833270177792tbb345 said:
This has been debated ad nauseam (Flip blowing it up versus going for established players) I personally like the C's offer more than the Dubs but Wiggins is a better offer than all of them.
Are we certain that the Cavs are offering Wiggins? Only tweet I have seen is Woj's and he just says Cavs are talking with the Wolves. They could be trying to sell them on a Waiters, Bennett, multiple 1st round pick offer for all we know
bryan1918 said:
I think one aspect that's been missed in this discussion is the fact that Thornton's salary is actually a more flexible asset than the TPE, and not just because it lasts more than three more days. While player salaries can be combined in the same transaction, the TPE could not be combined in this way, or at least that's my understanding of the current CBA rules. So, for example, you couldn't use the TPE to acquire a player making more than the TPE, while you could use Thornton's salary if you combined it with Bogans' deal or similar.
I agree that if Wiggins is in play then the Celtics will have trouble beating that offer, but moving the TPE for Thornton's salary I think actually increases the Celtics' ability to make further deals, it doesn't diminish it.
ElcaballitoMVP said:The C's also couldn't use the TPE in a deal for a star like Love, so swapping that for Thornton's $8.6M expiring gives them another piece to add in the deal and gives them until the trade deadline to do so.
They could theoretically do a Thornton/Bass/Sully/Anthony/Babb plus 2 or 3 1st round picks for Love/Martin/Budinger/Turiaf to help MIN clear out 2 or 3 bad contracts.
CLE could include Wiggins and Bennett to beat that offer, but Minny doesn't get to clear out the Martin/Budinger contracts, and couldn't receive nearly as many picks as we could include.