Celtics vs. Heat, Round 3 Discussion

Who you got?


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lexrageorge

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Tatum, used in more or less his regular playoff usage, is not a good enough basketball player to avoid a 6 turnover quarter, sometimes because he struggles to make a routine pass? This was a team that took a lead into the second half and then laid down meekly.
Turnovers can be a function of the intended recipient as well, especially on a night when 2 regular recipient of Tatum passes were not playing. And a better rested and fully staffed Celtics team probably would have forced a couple of turnovers of their own during that 3rd quarter, which could have made a big difference.
 

lexrageorge

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I'll be surprised if he's back for Game 2. That seems overly optimistic.
The NHL sort of "waived" their standard procedures for McAvoy. I think the NBA will be under a lot of pressure to get key players back on the floor. Horford is vaccinated, and if asymptomatic I would not be surprised if the league allows him back after his first negative.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Another thing: which one player in this series most wants to win? Obviously, that is Jimmy Butler. If it comes down to Tatum vs Butler, mano a mano, Tatum is the more talented player but Butler is the guy who wants it more. So, advantage Butler.
 

BaseballJones

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It stinks to lose after having a decent sized lead but honestly, losing game 1 on the road while missing Al and Smart is not THAT big a deal for this team.
 

Eddie Jurak

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It stinks to lose after having a decent sized lead but honestly, losing game 1 on the road while missing Al and Smart is not THAT big a deal for this team.
How they lost is a bigger deal than that they did. Miami gave them one pop on the glass jaw and they threw in the towel.
 

54thMA

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Just heard on a local radio station out of Providence that ESPN is reporting "several" Celtics training/medical staff have also tested positive for COVID.

Sorry, I do not have a direct link to the report, again just being reported on a local Providence radio station.
 

cshea

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The NHL sort of "waived" their standard procedures for McAvoy. I think the NBA will be under a lot of pressure to get key players back on the floor. Horford is vaccinated, and if asymptomatic I would not be surprised if the league allows him back after his first negative.
I'm not sure how the NHL differs from the NBA but the NHL tests when a player is symptomatic. If positive, the player must isolate for 5-days after the onset of symptoms (this is key), and produce two negative tests 24-hours apart to be removed from the protocol. Where it got hazy for McAvoy was the Bruins were able to to back date the onset of symptoms to Thursday, prior to game 3 so that's when his 5-day clock started, despite not testing positive and actually isolating until until Sunday. That allowed him to produce the two negative tets and return on Tuesday for game 5, the 6th day from the onset of symptoms date. Whether or not the league allowed the Bruins to fudge the onset of symptoms date or he really did have symptoms and tested negative from Thursday-Saturday that week, who knows.

I'm not sure what the protocols for the NBA are, but that's how the McAvoy situation was resolved so quickly.
 

tims4wins

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How they lost is a bigger deal than that they did. Miami gave them one pop on the glass jaw and they threw in the towel.
We get it, you think this group doesn't have killer instinct or isn't mentally strong or doesn't want it enough or however you want to phrase it. You've banged that drum over and over, from the Nets series, to games and 1 and 5 of the Bucks series, to last night.

Maybe you'll end up being right.

For the time being, would it be too much to ask you to just refrain from these types of posts? Everyone here knows your opinion on the matter. It's getting tiresome reading the same damn thing after every loss, and even after some of the wins. You're a broken record.
 

Eddie Jurak

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We get it, you think this group doesn't have killer instinct or isn't mentally strong or doesn't want it enough or however you want to phrase it. You've banged that drum over and over, from the Nets series, to games and 1 and 5 of the Bucks series, to last night.

Maybe you'll end up being right.

For the time being, would it be too much to ask you to just refrain from these types of posts? Everyone here knows your opinion on the matter. It's getting tiresome reading the same damn thing after every loss, and even after some of the wins. You're a broken record.
Yes, sir. Just happy talk from me from here on out.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Yes, sir. Just happy talk from me from here on out.
How about rational talk. Miami is damn good. I'm pretty sure they're the number one seed. The beat the Celtics down in the third quarter and deserve credit for that. It sucked to watch. But the Celtics didn't throw in the towel, or turtle, or quit. They got beat badly in a quarter. First quarter the Celts had lost in a while and the only one last night.

Kind of more interesting to think about how they will respond, given how they've responded over the past month or 4. Doesn't have to be happy, but it also doesn't need to be an amateur psychoanalysis.
 

joe dokes

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Yes, sir. Just happy talk from me from here on out.
C'mon. Nobody says or wants that. Your post games are well regarded, as far I I can tell.
But your "hit....glass jaw" conclusion is somewhere between wildly over critical and just wrong.
They went down by 20. "Glass jaw" teams would then go down by 30 and 40. The Celtics got it down to 8 or 9 when it was still a game. They didn't recover from the 3rd, but they hardly folded up the tent.
 

BrotherMouzone

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C'mon. Nobody says or wants that. Your post games are well regarded, as far I I can tell.
But your "hit....glass jaw" conclusion is somewhere between wildly over critical and just wrong.
They went down by 20. "Glass jaw" teams would then go down by 30 and 40. The Celtics got it down to 8 or 9 when it was still a game. They didn't recover from the 3rd, but they hardly folded up the tent.
And this is the same team that lost game five in heartbreaking fashion at home against the defending champs, and then turned around and won two must-win games to take the series.
A team with a glass jaw wouldn’t do that. Give me a break.
 

Saints Rest

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To my eye, the first half was a story of Miami's rust. They couldn't buy a basket early and the Celts were rolling, hitting everything.

The 3rd quarter was where the fatigue (both physical and mental) along with missing two starters showed up. Miami played a completely different (compared to MIL) style of defense. They saw that they were getting crushed in the paint, so they pressured up high on the ball handler and on the entry pass to great effect. Couple that with the Celtics getting infected with whatever beset the Bucks in Game 7 (call it "Can't Hit the Ocean from the Boat").

This window from G1 to G2 will be the first time where the Celts haven't had to get on a plane between games since Game 4 of the Bucks series.

Hopefully, we get Marcus back, TL isn't any more banged up, and AL gets closer to a return. Marcus' return means they will be able to protect PP much better; he basically can't be on the floor at the same time as Butler or else the Celts have to figure out a better approach for that pick-and-roll that leaves PP covering Butler.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I really don't think the above is at all correct. The degree of difficulty for the Celtics last night, missing 2 key starters and having a 48 hour turnaround time after a hugely emotional win in a tough, physical series, and playing the team with the best home record in the conference, would be almost impossible for any amount of coaching or physical toughness to overcome.

It may sound like excuse making, but it's also reality. How many times have we seen Smart or Horford knock down a critical 3 or make a key steal or some other big play? Celtics were 4-7 without Smart this season, and 5-8 when Horford sat. And I really need to see how the Celtics adjust in Game 2 before making a judgment on Ime's coaching ability.
Correct. Nothing that occurred last night should have been unexpected. Actually my honest assessment was that the Celtics outperformed their expectation with that lineup under the turnaround, travel, and adjustment to Miami’s jump and trap after 7 games of Bucks drop coverage. If we get healthy I’m as confident if not more that we end this before a Game 7. People have to realize that’s Miami’s offense dies when Butler can’t beat his man to his spots. Smart’s health will decide this series.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Posted this in Gambling thread but info is relevant for here….



*** Careful guys!

Msg from Telegram source who often gets good info prior to news hitting.

“I’m hearing that COVID is worse than they said. Not sure.”

A little cryptic but I wouldn’t touch Boston in G2 right now. Considering buying back if I hear anything else. Probably should already.
 

DJnVa

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Posted this in Gambling thread but info is relevant for here….



*** Careful guys!

Msg from Telegram source who often gets good info prior to news hitting.

“I’m hearing that COVID is worse than they said. Not sure.”

A little cryptic but I wouldn’t touch Boston in G2 right now. Considering buying back if I hear anything else. Probably should already.
Well, at this point the Heat would be close contacts too!
 

yecul

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The problem with taking a punch is that they will still be short manned in all likelihood. Smart should be back, but will surely still be feeling it. Al is likely to miss another game. And they've been bear up.

Series is far from over and this team can certainly bounce back, but MIA is strong and is missing a player themselves. We will see.

Bad luck with Covid situatuon.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Well, at this point the Heat would be close contacts too!
Technically there shouldn’t be a game on Thurs bc nobody would be eligible. This is so freakin ridiculous in May, 2022 with vaccinations and boosters in place. Yvmv
 

lexrageorge

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Technically there shouldn’t be a game on Thurs bc nobody would be eligible. This is so freakin ridiculous in May, 2022 with vaccinations and boosters in place. Yvmv
Well, you do have a hyper-contagious variant (China's lockdowns have failed miserably) that readily spreads from asymptomatic carriers, combined with the fact that Horford reportedly practiced with the team Tuesday morning. Basically, unless Al's was a false positive, it's likely that both teams would have multiple players testing positive by Thursday. And probably all will be at worst mildly symptomatic.

If that happens, it certainly wouldn't be as difficult to postpone Game 2 by a couple of days as the media types would have you believe.
 

Ed Hillel

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Well, you do have a hyper-contagious variant (China's lockdowns have failed miserably) that readily spreads from asymptomatic carriers, combined with the fact that Horford reportedly practiced with the team Tuesday morning. Basically, unless Al's was a false positive, it's likely that both teams would have multiple players testing positive by Thursday. And probably all will be at worst mildly symptomatic.

If that happens, it certainly wouldn't be as difficult to postpone Game 2 by a couple of days as the media types would have you believe.
I think his point might just be it’s time to treat it like any other illness and move on. Severity numbers probably support that at this point. Jordan played with the flu, after all.

Also, I know travel and “schedule loss,” but I do wonder if we see consistent lack of energy in 3rd quarters if something else might be going on…

Regarding Al, we don’t have confirmation yet he was a positive, do we? He could have been a close contact. Though, certainly, one must wonder why the NBA knew to test him.
 
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Light-Tower-Power

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Well, you do have a hyper-contagious variant (China's lockdowns have failed miserably) that readily spreads from asymptomatic carriers, combined with the fact that Horford reportedly practiced with the team Tuesday morning. Basically, unless Al's was a false positive, it's likely that both teams would have multiple players testing positive by Thursday. And probably all will be at worst mildly symptomatic.

If that happens, it certainly wouldn't be as difficult to postpone Game 2 by a couple of days as the media types would have you believe.
I'm not sure. The finals schedule is already set, so any postponements would likely mean a shuffling of the finals schedule as well. I'm not sure what the league is going to do if this turns into some kind of outbreak situation, but having decimated COVID rosters during the conference finals cannot be the answer.
 

nazz45

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3Q made him that ill, eh?
Rather have COVID-laced droplets blasted into my eyeballs than rewatch that shit.

Seemed like Vincent thoroughly dominated White. Literally running circles around him a few times. I don’t expect much from a scoring standpoint - and he passed up some open looks which I still think does more harm than good in the big picture - but he was lousy all around after an ok first quarter.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Rather have COVID-laced droplets blasted into my eyeballs than rewatch that shit.

Seemed like Vincent thoroughly dominated White. Literally running circles around him a few times. I don’t expect much from a scoring standpoint - and he passed up some open looks which I still think does more harm than good in the big picture - but he was lousy all around after an ok first quarter.
I think the strategy was to give Vincent the 3P as he was shooting under .300 in the playoffs from 3P. I don't know how many pull-up 28 footers Vincent will make in the rest of series - hopefully none - but if he starts shooting like Grant Curry, it could be a looooong series.
 

nazz45

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I think the strategy was to give Vincent the 3P as he was shooting under .300 in the playoffs from 3P. I don't know how many pull-up 28 footers Vincent will make in the rest of series - hopefully none - but if he starts shooting like Grant Curry, it could be a looooong series.
Yeah, true. He had a lousy series shooting against Philly. Good against Atlanta. He’s 37% on the season on ok volume so you maybe live/die with that… but I thought he was getting into the interior of the defense as well.

As good as first half was offensively, I wasn’t too impressed with Celtics defense after the first 5 minutes. There was a string of 5 straight possessions in which the Heat penetrated into the paint with little resistance for easy baskets, even out of the half court. Missed some open threes that they made in the 2nd half. Herro got wherever he wanted to out there. These things are fixable but also may be more related to Smart and Horford.
 

Ed Hillel

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I’ll bet DRS’s $10 the league is scrambling behind the scenes right now. If Al is missing Game 2, that means he wasn’t merely a close contact, there had to have been a positive test. And now Ime, who traveled with Al and was just on the court with him, is missing a press conference because he’s sick.
 

Ed Hillel

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Since we are in full blown speculation mode, it was Hauser, with a wet sneeze, in the locker room pantry.
It’s not really speculation if Al is out game 2 that he had a positive test. Unless you think the Celtics are willingly holding him out. Close contacts can return after 2 days if they are negative.

Edit - Just saw above. Poop. The way it’s been spreading, not sure how the league was going to avoid this, especially with all the travel.
 
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lars10

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Tatum, used in more or less his regular playoff usage, is not a good enough basketball player to avoid a 6 turnover quarter, sometimes because he struggles to make a routine pass? This was a team that took a lead into the second half and then laid down meekly.
Your ‘analysis’ of the Celtics is the most consistently negative I read.. and it always contains intangible things like ‘heart’ ‘mentally tougher’ etc. Things that can not be proven or disproven but you claim as clearly ‘facts’ or obvious. I mean.. after all those turnovers and laying down meekly or whatever.. at one point the Cs got it back to down 3? Missing two of their best starters.. having to play one guy that isn’t even in the rotation for pretty significant minutes after just finishing a seven game series… the reason the Celts lost is because the got out coached and Miami is mentally tougher… ok. What happened during the regular season? When the Cs won by 20? Was Spoelstra not coaching? Were they not mentally tough?

Another thing: which one player in this series most wants to win? Obviously, that is Jimmy Butler. If it comes down to Tatum vs Butler, mano a mano, Tatum is the more talented player but Butler is the guy who wants it more. So, advantage Butler.
wtf does this even mean? How could this even be proven to be remotely true? Butler just coasted against two teams that were riddled with injury.. Tatum and his team just beat two of the best players in the NBA.. and he was the main reason for the majority.
 

riboflav

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In a maskless society that no longer socially distances players getting Covid is almost inevitable. There is literally nothing players can do to prevent it or protect themsesves except get the vaccine which in Horford's case, he did! What a message this sends to people. Shame on the NBA.
 

bosockboy

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In a maskless society that no longer socially distances players getting Covid is almost inevitable. There is literally nothing players can do to prevent it or protect themsesves except get the vaccine which in Horford's case, he did! What a message this sends to people. Shame on the NBA.
It seems excessive but the NFL completely ignored it during the playoffs when dozens of players likely played while positive. Not sure which is better.
 

lexrageorge

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In a maskless society that no longer socially distances players getting Covid is almost inevitable. There is literally nothing players can do to prevent it or protect themsesves except get the vaccine which in Horford's case, he did! What a message this sends to people. Shame on the NBA.
What could the NBA do differently?? This variant is too contagious to contain.
 

Helmet Head

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Given the current circumstances and rumors flying around coupled with Udoka canceling his press conference, I think we may be in the midsts of the NBA assessing the situation and their is currently a lot of uncertainty. Udoka was likely going to get peppered with Covid questions he didn’t know the answer to or just flat out shouldn’t answer and they wanted to avoid that. I expect we will get some news in the late afternoon regarding the Celtics Covid situation.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Correct. Nothing that occurred last night should have been unexpected. Actually my honest assessment was that the Celtics outperformed their expectation with that lineup under the turnaround, travel, and adjustment to Miami’s jump and trap after 7 games of Bucks drop coverage. If we get healthy I’m as confident if not more that we end this before a Game 7. People have to realize that’s Miami’s offense dies when Butler can’t beat his man to his spots. Smart’s health will decide this series.
I agree. On balance, I thought Celtics winning/breaking even for three quarters was a pretty solid performance given all the barriers they were facing. That doesn't change how putrid and depressing Q3 was (especially the last 6 or so minutes).

I am less pessimistic than Ed Jurak on the team's "jaw" but I agree with the overall direction---I'd reframe as they can go down easily becasue of the glass jaw, and they have consistently shown they get back up and get tougher as the round continues. But they did collapse in both game 1s and part of the reason was physicality.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This team just won two straight, including a game six on the defending NBA champion's home floor, to advance to this series. They then played credibly while down two starters including perhaps their most important defensive piece this series in game one. I completely reject the idea that this Celtics squad has a "glass jaw" or is mentally weak.

In game one of this series the C's were tired, apparently dealing with a bigger covid issue than we knew and very short-handed. The teams that lacked toughness left this dance long ago.
 

Auger34

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It seems excessive but the NFL completely ignored it during the playoffs when dozens of players likely played while positive. Not sure which is better.
I think the NBA is going to have to start doing the same thing. They don’t want postponements and they also don’t want key players missing games
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Seems pretty silly to me to pretend to care when there are undoubtedly people sitting in the stands with COVID unmasked and interacting with way more people than a player on the court.
 

Auger34

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I agree. On balance, I thought Celtics winning/breaking even for three quarters was a pretty solid performance given all the barriers they were facing. That doesn't change how putrid and depressing Q3 was (especially the last 6 or so minutes).

I am less pessimistic than Ed Jurak on the team's "jaw" but I agree with the overall direction---I'd reframe as they can go down easily becasue of the glass jaw, and they have consistently shown they get back up and get tougher as the round continues. But they did collapse in both game 1s and part of the reason was physicality.
It seems like the Celtics have a little bit of trouble stemming the tide DURING the game but there’s no question that they’ve responded incredibly well to adversity by the next game.8 anticipate the same thing to happen here.

There are plenty of things to criticize about the team and individual players. They can zone out and play some really stupid basketball. Can get mired in the mud in the half court. But I think it’s well past time to call them out for shit like toughness, heart or “not wanting it enough”. That’s complete nonsense and they’ve proven time and time again this year that they have those things