Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Porter didn't look great to me. He also looks a step slow. According to NBA.com, BOS shot 5-6 when Porter was on defense.

The second video below is a clip Smart driving past Porter and Porter doesn't offer much resistance.

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1534722745254150146
It's a tough ask for any 6'8" player to stay with a point guard. Or to reverse it, if you're a point guard and a 6'8" guy is in front of you, you fully expect that you can beat him off the dribble. Or you SHOULD expect that.
 

Kliq

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What about the 3rd when White flopped into the screener due to the supernatural force of Steph’s hand on his shoulder?



Yup, we talked pre-series about the matchup and while Draymond was great defensively even on the perimeter in the G2 3Q it isn’t something that he can sustain……but the Warriors lack the defensive perimeter personnel to really have anyone else out there. Looking back it’s hard to believe that they didn’t address this need at the deadline. If Iggy was a few years younger it would be different but did they really feel Kuminga or Moody could be that guy? I mean it is/was a clear hole in their defense……what would it have taken OKC to move Bazley? Moody and a future #1 after Curry’s relevant or more?
Simmons and Russillo talked about this earlier this week. It all kind of goes back to Lacob and the overall team-building philosophy that Golden State has; they are not going to go ALL IN every year during Curry and Co.'s window; instead favoring an approach on sustainability. That means not flipping promising young players for immediate help to maximize the Curry window. They want to be in 50% of the Finals for the next 20 years or something like that. I have no idea if it will work and it would require a lot of luck for that to happen; but it's a very different philosophy than what a lot of other teams have done (Clippers, Lakers, Nets, Sixers, etc.) who have traded away their futures to try and win immediately with their current core of stars.

I'm sure they feel pretty smart at the moment, having held on to people like Moody and Wiseman and still with a great chance to win another title and having outlasted all those other teams that went all in. It also shows how different Curry is than most of his peers; it's the opposite of what a lot of his contemporaries (most notably LeBron) have done with their primes.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't think its that the Warriors didn't think they had the perimeter defensive personnel - my take is that they thought they did but they are being exposed during the post-season. They thought they had enough in Green, Wiggins, Porter, Payton and whatever Thompson could give them because sans Klay, that was what worked during the regular season.

The other part of this is that the Celtics just present such poor match-up choices. It turns out having Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown together makes for some very difficult decisions for the opposition and thus far, nothing has solved them.
 

tbrown_01923

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I'm sure they feel pretty smart at the moment, having held on to people like Moody and Wiseman and still with a great chance to win another title and having outlasted all those other teams that went all in. It also shows how different Curry is than most of his peers; it's the opposite of what a lot of his contemporaries (most notably LeBron) have done with their primes.
I am more skeptical of the strategy now that I am seeing what this older version of the roster looks like. without diving into a GSW rebuild philosophy - curry is tied up over the next four seasons, but at a number that makes free agent aquisition tricky unless they completely revamp the roster... but you have draymond for 2 more years too.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's a tough ask for any 6'8" player to stay with a point guard. Or to reverse it, if you're a point guard and a 6'8" guy is in front of you, you fully expect that you can beat him off the dribble. Or you SHOULD expect that.
You can compare Porter's defense to Wiggins' defense on basically the same drive by Smart.

It would explain why the Cs were 7-24 when shooting against Wiggins but 5-6 when shooting against Porter.

Porter was a pretty decent defender once but doesn't appear to be any longer. Which is likely why he is getting limited minutes (which was the original question)
 

Strike4

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I don't think its that the Warriors didn't think they had the perimeter defensive personnel - my take is that they thought they did but they are being exposed during the post-season.
Having watched a few of the GSW-Dallas games, this is 100% the case. The Mav's defense is like an order of magnitude below what the Celtics are throwing out there.
 

tbb345

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Simmons and Russillo talked about this earlier this week. It all kind of goes back to Lacob and the overall team-building philosophy that Golden State has; they are not going to go ALL IN every year during Curry and Co.'s window; instead favoring an approach on sustainability. That means not flipping promising young players for immediate help to maximize the Curry window. They want to be in 50% of the Finals for the next 20 years or something like that. I have no idea if it will work and it would require a lot of luck for that to happen; but it's a very different philosophy than what a lot of other teams have done (Clippers, Lakers, Nets, Sixers, etc.) who have traded away their futures to try and win immediately with their current core of stars.

I'm sure they feel pretty smart at the moment, having held on to people like Moody and Wiseman and still with a great chance to win another title and having outlasted all those other teams that went all in. It also shows how different Curry is than most of his peers; it's the opposite of what a lot of his contemporaries (most notably LeBron) have done with their primes.
I don’t know, Finals appearances are pretty special.
Plus that’s all well and good that they have some good future assets but do any of those players look like they will come even remotely close to how good Steph is?

Honestly, I think that they should regret not trading Wiseman for a really good player who could help them now. Wiseman’s been hurt and even when he’s been healthy, he looks like a pretty awful fit for the offense that the Warriors try and run.
 

InstaFace

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Agree on MIL and MIA making the game super physical, but GSW isn't built like MIL or MIA. Yes Green can be super physical like MIL and MIA, but MIL had Lopez and Portis and Holiday and others who could muck it up. MIA had Lowry and Butler and Martin and Bam (kind of). Who does GSW have other than Green? Iguadola might have been but he's too old. Porter? Wiggins?
I'm no basketball savant, but Wiggins to me looks like a guy who should be able to dish and take bigger hits, and be more willing to drive and contest drives. He's 6'7" but looks about as strong as Tatum, he should be able to switch just about 1-5. He has the agility and footspeed to do so, certainly. He ought to be Jaylen Brown for them on the defensive side of the ball: able to seamlessly switch, handle screens, close out with energy, and cover drives all the way to the rim. But it seems to me he's just not running in 5th gear very much, or misses a key rotation and gets blown by. And doesn't have the handsiness to be a pesky ball-security threat, either (though that's a luxury attribute for wings).

GSW betting on Wiggins to be an all-purpose perimeter defender who's willing and able to raise the physicality of the game on both sides... feels like a decent bet. Where has it gone wrong?
 

reggiecleveland

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That is not what happened, though. Tatum's right arm is by the basket, nowhere near Draymond to start with. Tatum reaches out with his left arm to put it in front of Draymond (which is legal) and Draymond grabs Tatum's body to move and try to get inside position. That's the foul people are asking for. Tatum's right arm is not even close to involved until after Draymond grabbed him. Are you looking at after Draymond essentially picks Tatum up and moves him that Tatum's right arm could have grabbed Green's inside arm (which we cannot see on the replay, but is possible)? If that's the case----even in your interpretation--Tatum's is very clearly the second foul and thus irrelevant on this place.
You really can't imagine how little I care about this.
The NBA has already made it so I can no longer make fun of soccer. If you want the game to get softer still, that is your preference. I don't.
If you prefer thinking the NBA is out to get your team, fine. Again I don't.
52331
 

BigSoxFan

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I don’t know, Finals appearances are pretty special.
Plus that’s all well and good that they have some good future assets but do any of those players look like they will come even remotely close to how good Steph is?

Honestly, I think that they should regret not trading Wiseman for a really good player who could help them now. Wiseman’s been hurt and even when he’s been healthy, he looks like a pretty awful fit for the offense that the Warriors try and run.
Yeah. It's hard for a team that's been to 6 of the last 8 finals to have a "what if" but, man, imagine LaMelo instead of Wiseman. Not drafting LaMelo was a HUGE screw up by the Warriors front office. Imagine trying to defend the perimeter with Curry, Klay, and Melo AND the improved playmaking. This could be Darko 2.0 where a really good team missed out on adding a star that could have extended their dominance even further. Still way too early to call Wiseman a bust but getting zero value from the #2 pick for 2 years has to be a downer.
 

reggiecleveland

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But it seems to me he's just not running in 5th gear very much, or misses a key rotation and gets blown by. And doesn't have the handsiness to be a pesky ball-security threat, either (though that's a luxury attribute for wings).
Ever wonder how a guy goes from "next Lebron" to Third best player on a good team?
 
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tims4wins

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Cross-posting from the gamethread... Dray fouled out despite not picking up his first foul until the 2nd quarter. Probably not an easy thing to research, but that has to be a pretty rare occurrence in the NBA. Wonder if it's ever happened in playoff / Finals history before.
 

Ed Hillel

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Fwiw, I’m currently in the process of convincing the wife to rename our boat “Prestige Worldwide.” I think I’ve got a 60% shot.
 

JCizzle

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17,229
Definitely a goaltend and one of many good whistles (or non-whistles) we got last night. Home cooking was tasty.
The Celtics drove the ball nearly twice as many times if I'm reading this correctly and attempted nearly twice as many shots on those drives: Teams Drives | Stats | NBA.com

Similar disparity for shots within 10 feet: Teams Shooting Dashboard General | Stats | NBA.com

What home cooking were you seeing? If anything, I'd go the opposite based on what I saw Tatum absorbing and the above numbers that appear to back the aggressiveness disparity, but that's just me an admitted ref hater. :redwine:
 

soxhop411

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Dec 4, 2009
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This is becoming funny
View: https://twitter.com/JDumasReports/status/1534925508231806978
I’ve chatted with multiple Warriors staffers (who work in various diff roles in the org) and their experience here in Boston has been crazy. One told me “I had to take off my Dubs shirt Wed morning because I kept getting cursed out.” Another: “I’ve been flipped off 17 times.”



17 middle fingers= our 17 NBA Championships, Also I highly doubt they know they work for GS.. they see someone wearing a GS jersey they, probably think they are a fan...
 
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ugmo33

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I am more skeptical of the strategy now that I am seeing what this older version of the roster looks like. without diving into a GSW rebuild philosophy - curry is tied up over the next four seasons, but at a number that makes free agent aquisition tricky unless they completely revamp the roster... but you have draymond for 2 more years too.
Seems like the success of this strategy going forward depends a lot on Klay's health. If this is the new normal, they are in trouble with him occupying a max salary slot. If he can get back to a impact defender, they look a lot different.
 

lexrageorge

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Scriblerus

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Those reports read a little...exaggerated to me. I live down by the Garden and work by the new Four Seasons where the Warriors are staying, and while maybe a small sample size, I walk to work and take a walk around lunchtime, etc, and I've seen plenty of people wearing GS gear and not one person has been harassed. I've gone out for drinks by the Garden each night of the playoffs and everyone has mostly been friendly with the GS fans. There's some banter here and there, but I haven't seen anyone get in someone's face or flip them off. This "Boston fans are meanies and vulgar" is GS trying to divert the narrative.

Having said that, the BPD was on hand at the Four Seasons when the Warriors were getting on their buses to the Garden with a bomb-sniffing dog checking each bus before anyone got on board...
 

Strike4

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I know this stuff happens everywhere, but it's childish and it's reasonable to expect a higher standard from fans. Sure, most times it's fun, but I've seen it turn into unnecessary confrontation. The poor Giants fan that got beaten outside Dodger Stadium until he became permanently disabled is still a haunting memory.
This is pretty different though. Getting flipped off is not that big a deal. I lived in NYC in 2003-4 and did stupid things like wear a Red Sox jersey whilst sitting in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium. I only feared for my life once. Also lots of funny memorable things happened like once when I was crossing Broadway wearing a Sox hat the guy in the car at the crosswalk leaned out the window and said, "Hey, HEY! BAWSTAAN SUCKS!" I gave him the finger and we both laughed.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Speaking only for myself, the ramped up animosity makes me uneasy. But maybe its because I have now seen far too many examples of unbalanced people who have no problem escalating situations where simple vocal support or resistance is sufficient to make a point. The days of this stuff being all in good fun ended quite a few stadium beatings ago.
 

lars10

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I know this stuff happens everywhere, but it's childish and it's reasonable to expect a higher standard from fans. Sure, most times it's fun, but I've seen it turn into unnecessary confrontation. The poor Giants fan that got beaten outside Dodger Stadium until he became permanently disabled is still a haunting memory.
I lived in NYC for 15 years and never wore a Sox hat just to avoid confrontation. It's gotten a lot better than it used to be, but the only fight I was ever in was over a friend asking me about the Red Sox score and I once had someone cross the Bowery to come up to me and ask me if I was wearing a sox hat.. I was wearing a Brooklyn Dodgers hat.

With that said.. I was also with my ex in Fenway who is an Orioles fan.. we had good seats behind home plate and I was surprised how vitriolic some of the fans were.. even having grown up in Boston.
 

The Social Chair

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There really is a difference between the east and west coast. Have they never been to New York? Philly? Boston?
Los Angeles is the only city I'd fear wearing opposing team apparel to a game. More Dodgers and Rams games than Lakers though.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I think fans are largely the same as they've always been while the game itself has changed. The players are all mostly buds now, the game is less overtly physical and vitriolic across the board, so when you see that level of fandom it can be jarring to people from places less likely to see it, and it gets played up in the media though it's nothing new or surprising or unique to Boston.
 

tims4wins

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Two more fun Dray stats:
1) 15 points... 15 fouls
2) No one has ever fouled out of 3 Finals games in a single season before. He's fouled out of 2 of the first 3, so he has (potentially) 4 opportunities to break the record
 

InstaFace

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Those reports read a little...exaggerated to me. I live down by the Garden and work by the new Four Seasons where the Warriors are staying, and while maybe a small sample size, I walk to work and take a walk around lunchtime, etc, and I've seen plenty of people wearing GS gear and not one person has been harassed. I've gone out for drinks by the Garden each night of the playoffs and everyone has mostly been friendly with the GS fans. There's some banter here and there, but I haven't seen anyone get in someone's face or flip them off. This "Boston fans are meanies and vulgar" is GS trying to divert the narrative.

Having said that, the BPD was on hand at the Four Seasons when the Warriors were getting on their buses to the Garden with a bomb-sniffing dog checking each bus before anyone got on board...
yeah, i'm going to file the "17 times" under "Things That Didn't Happen". Maybe one guy flipped him off and after that he just saw death stares in the eyes of everyone else he encountered getting his coffee in the morning.

Either way, the scope of what's allowable or appropriate greatly increases in between when he arrives for duty on game night and when he leaves the Garden afterwards. That's where 20,000 people get drunk and get conditioned to act and think like an angry mob. Aside from that, it should be limited to banter - and it sounds like it is. I like to think we're honoring our legacy of the Celtics-Lakers clashes of the 60s, 80s and 00s, where surely a Lakers hat in Boston in June would earn the wearer some trash talk. The next time I hear about a stadium beating in Boston or Foxboro, or, hell, an altercation at the grocery store between rival teams' fans, will be the first.

It's nice to know that Boston is in their heads a bit though.
 

lovegtm

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Reading Warriors boards, they’re also tired of his act. A lot of them were asking why Looney doesn’t play more.
Right, but the problem is that if Draymond can't be an elite player, the theory of this Warriors team falls apart. What they need/expect Draymond to be is something that Looney simply isn't.

Also should give the Celtics huge credit on the defensive end for holding up against the off-ball movement and taking away a lot of passes. That limits Draymond's offensive value substantially, because he's not athletic enough to drive, and his shot is completely broken.
 

Captaincoop

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Los Angeles is the only city I'd fear wearing opposing team apparel to a game. More Dodgers and Rams games than Lakers though.
Any Red Sox fans who were there in Oakland for the Sox-A's series in 2003 remember hearing and seeing some nasty stuff. Same fan base. Not to mention Raider fans. Bay Area whiners can stuff it.
 

djbayko

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Tatum is clearly off. I’m not the expert that a lot of you guys are but when he’s on him going to the left side of the basket is like magic, and when he’s off he looks like what I’d look like driving to the hoop laying it up with my left hand.

Fortunately for the Celts, this version of off Tatum has still been pretty good, particularly helping the rest of the team in other ways.
Yeah, something's not right, and it seems like that shoulder is the prime candidate. After the Celtics close out this series, I can see this experience having a huge positive impact on his growth as a playmaker. He's being forced to do a lot more of it and will see that it can lead to success.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I'm no basketball savant, but Wiggins to me looks like a guy who should be able to dish and take bigger hits, and be more willing to drive and contest drives. He's 6'7" but looks about as strong as Tatum, he should be able to switch just about 1-5. He has the agility and footspeed to do so, certainly. He ought to be Jaylen Brown for them on the defensive side of the ball: able to seamlessly switch, handle screens, close out with energy, and cover drives all the way to the rim. But it seems to me he's just not running in 5th gear very much, or misses a key rotation and gets blown by. And doesn't have the handsiness to be a pesky ball-security threat, either (though that's a luxury attribute for wings).

GSW betting on Wiggins to be an all-purpose perimeter defender who's willing and able to raise the physicality of the game on both sides... feels like a decent bet. Where has it gone wrong?
Wiggins is GSW's best defender. BOS shot 7-24 when Wiggins was the defender. But Wiggins is used yo being the best athlete on the floor. Guys like that don't muck things up and usually don't need to get physical. It's the grinders like Smart and Green and Lowry who know how to play physical because that's how the leveled the playing field.

Then there's Giannis who plays like a grinder but happens to be one of the best athletes in the NBA. Amazing.
 

nighthob

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It's a tough ask for any 6'8" player to stay with a point guard. Or to reverse it, if you're a point guard and a 6'8" guy is in front of you, you fully expect that you can beat him off the dribble. Or you SHOULD expect that.
I mean Porter’s 29, but he’s an oooooooold 29 (seriously, his injury history is as extensive as Iranian history). I thought making the Kuminga pick was disastrously bad for that squad. He’s the kind of guy that needs to play off of someone like Steph, so he should play zero part of your post-Steph plan.
 

nighthob

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Honestly, I think that they should regret not trading Wiseman for a really good player who could help them now. Wiseman’s been hurt and even when he’s been healthy, he looks like a pretty awful fit for the offense that the Warriors try and run.
I was baffled by the selection of Wiseman. I figured that they could have made a run at SGA by offering the Thunder a chance to draft Patrick Williams or LaMelo Ball. At the very least they should have taken Ball.
 

pk1627

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Any Red Sox fans who were there in Oakland for the Sox-A's series in 2003 remember hearing and seeing some nasty stuff. Same fan base. Not to mention Raider fans. Bay Area whiners can stuff it.
I got lucky then. Game 5 late innings was the loudest and maybe most intense baseball experience I’ve had. And when Lowe struck out the final batter, every A’s fan near me congratulated the team and shook my hand.