Reverend said:
Ortiz being Ortiz. Deal with it.
I can live with this. The guy can be wrong and still be a superhero in my eyes.
I just hate when he gives ammunition to the Shanks of the world. I guess that's my problem, though.
Reverend said:
Ortiz being Ortiz. Deal with it.
Sampo Gida said:
His buddy Cano just did the same thing in Seattle.
They're going to find (or create) something no matter what.Andrew said:
I just hate when he gives ammunition to the Shanks of the world. I guess that's my problem, though.
JakeRae said:The Ortiz comments aren't really accurate. First, no hitter is making $30 million a year and almost no one is making $25. The best position players are making $20-$25, not $25-$30. Second, and more important, Ortiz is not as good as the guys making that type of money. Or, at the very least, he is not as good as the teams expected those players to be when they signed them to those contracts.
On a rate stat level, Ortiz' performance last year was most comparable to that of Choo. (They have a wRC+ one point apart and wOBA's with .010 although Choo gets there with less power and more OBP.) Choo signed for $18.6 million this offseason. And, while his terrible defense makes him basically the equivalent of a DH, he played in 17 more games and accumulate 112 more PA, making his fWAR 1.4 higher than that of Ortiz.
If we are looking for a value comp, we need look no further than the Red Sox 1B. Napoli's overall value last season was virtually identical to that of Ortiz at 3.9 fWAR to Ortiz' 3.8. His health concerns probably mitigate substantially against the age difference. He signed a contract that was pretty much the same as the one Ortiz got a year ago.
Basically, the contract Ortiz is on, which he signed as a FA, is equivalent to his fair market value, more or less. Part of signing a contract is giving up the right to renegotiate terms every year. If Ortiz wants to sign an extension which builds in a discount for the Red Sox to guarantee him money in 2015 a year before they need to, I would be fine with that. I would not offer him a FA-rate extension a year in advance though. It sets a terrible precedent for future dealings with players to do so.
If Ortiz has another great year, a 2-year, $30-34 million dollar deal is probably waiting for him after next year. If he struggles or gets hurt, he might be looking at a 1 year, $5 million dollar deal with incentives or even just be out of baseball entirely. If he wants to sign an extension for around $10-$12 million right now, I'd do it. I'd also consider a $15-$16 million dollar extension with a team option at the same rate added on for the third year and no, or minimal, buyout. If he is looking for $15+ million without the team really getting anything, I try to politely explain to him that I'm not saying no because I don't think he's worth it but because the team has to hold the line on not being willing to extend players who are currently under contract unless they are willing to take a discount. $15 million for Ortiz, as evidenced by his last contract and the contract Napoli just signed, is not a discount, or if it is, it is a very slight one.
The short version of all of this is that it is bad for business to extend players unless you get a discount. Extending Ortiz should only happen if he is willing to take a discount, either in dollar terms or by giving the team options at the end. And, in either case, he really should keep his contract complaints between himself, his agent, and the front office rather than discussing it in the press.
nvalvo said:
Cano has a better case. The second-best bat on the Ms projects to be... Kyle Seager, I guess? Maybe Nick Franklin or Logan Morrison?
Sampo Gida said:I don't really get excited about anything Papi says, or any player for that matter. At one time he was the mature guy and leader who tried to keep Manny in line, and since Manny left he has kind of regressed, at least that's how it seems. However, as long as he is the force that he is at the plate, who cares. I am at the age where players just seem like silly kids with large wallets. I like watching them play but tune out when they speak.
nvalvo said:
Cano has a better case. The second-best bat on the Ms projects to be... Kyle Seager, I guess? Maybe Nick Franklin or Logan Morrison?
Sampo Gida said:
Probably a stronger lineup than the Yankees had last year. In Papis case I guess its his way of reminding folks how much the team needs him as his agent negotiates an extension. Cano is trying to get the Mariners to sign Morales.
Toucher and Rich @Toucherandrich 5m
According to @RochieWBZ on our show, a source close to situation says David Ortiz is close to signing a one-year $14-16 mil deal w Red Sox.
Yeah, MLB.com reporting that it is $15 million for 2015, on top of this year.Dick Pole Upside said:Assuming that's an extension, eh?
The Papi-Manny duo made for some good times, but in the "nothing was more fun to watch" category, there was a recent Sox that was certainly more fun (or maybe not, because it was so unfair):luckysox said:Man, there was almost nothing as fun as the Papi-Manny duo. I'd be reminiscing about that if I were him, too.
RedOctober3829 said:@GordonEdes: Source: Sox, Ortiz reach deal on extension just north of $15 million. Deal could be announced tomorrow
No kidding. It is just spring but he looks awful.Al Zarilla said:OK, David, time to start hitting now.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
And since Opening Day was technically yesterday thanks to the opener in Australia, I don't think this impacts the 2014 CBT numbers at all.
judyb said:Also, it doesn't sound like this extension is going to raise his AAV from what we're hearing, I wouldn't be shocked if it lowers it just a bit if they do make this a new 2 year contract starting in 2014.
soxhop411 said:
Jon Morosi @jonmorosi 2m
Source says Ortiz deal with Red Sox may include club option for 2016 that becomes a vesting player option with certain PA threshold.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/447849143625863168
For some reason, Alex Speier had his 2014 AAV at $17M. It sounds like the new one is an extension, anyway.The number being reported is $16M for 2015.Ortiz's 2014 salary is $11M (CBT number is $13M). So if it were re-done as a two year deal, it would be 2/$27M and his CBT number would go up by $500K.
Edit: Forgot about the escalator triggered for his 2014 salary, it's $15M, so a 2-year deal would be 2/$31M and it would still raise his CBT # by half a million.
PaulinMyrBch said:I've got no problem with this one bit. B-R had his earnings to date at $112m. If we're overpaying the last few years to make sure he retires a Red Sox, it's the one guy that deserves it.
1918stabbedbyfoulke said:
Amen.
Without this: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/11493214/v31138947 , there are no duckboats in 2013.
Puts a smile on my face every time I watch it.
Nvm they are vesting options. So I guess if they vest he has earned itRedOctober3829 said:I'm fine with the 1-year extension, but options for 16 and 17? I'm not comfortable with being on the hook for a DH over 40.
Fine with that as well. This public acrimony about this contract is over. Everyone can move on. Play ball!soxhop411 said:Nvm they are vesting options. So I guess if they vest he has earned it
mauidano said:Fine with that as well. This public acrimony about this contract is over. Everyone can move on. Play ball!
RedOctober3829 said:I'm fine with the 1-year extension, but options for 16 and 17? I'm not comfortable with being on the hook for a DH over 40.
Hank Scorpio said:Not my money, so I don't care about a one year cash dump on whatever Ortiz is capable of in 2016 or 2017, but the front office might see things differently.
Right. And in the interim, he is generally underpaid.Ed Hillel said:
Call me crazy, but maybe we should wait to see what the terms of the vesting option are first?
People have been worried about overpaying for an extra year of Ortiz on this site for 3-4 years now. As far as I'm concerned, I will gladly take the security of having Ortiz around for the full length of his time as an elite or very good hitter for the price of overpaying him a little or even a lot for the year he can't play up to his contract.
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/10660664/david-ortiz-agrees-extension-boston-red-soxAccording to multiple sources, Ortiz agreed to a $16 million extension for the 2015 season, a $1 million bump from the $15 million he will be paid in 2014. Also in place are options for the 2016 and 2017 seasons that will vest if Ortiz achieves a certain number of plate appearances. If Ortiz triggers the option years, he will remain under Red Sox control into his 40s -- he turns 42 on Nov. 18, 2017, the final year of the deal.
MLBRosterMoves @MLBRosterMoves 8m
.@RedSox, @davidortiz agree to 1-year extension through 2015 season with a club/vesting option for 2016 and club option for 2017.
Boston Red Sox @RedSox 22m
OFFICIAL: #RedSox & David Ortiz agreed today on a 1-yr. extension through 2015 with a club/vesting option for 2016 & a club option for 2017.
1918stabbedbyfoulke said:
Amen.
Without this: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/11493214/v31138947 , there are no duckboats in 2013.
Puts a smile on my face every time I watch it.
“@JonHeymanCBS: David Ortiz '16 option vests starting at $11M with 425 plate appearances in '15, graduates to $16M with 600 PAs. #redsox”Ed Hillel said:Call me crazy, but maybe we should wait to see what the terms of the vesting option are first?
People have been worried about overpaying for an extra year of Ortiz on this site for 3-4 years now. As far as I'm concerned, I will gladly take the security of having Ortiz around for the full length of his time as an elite or very good hitter for the price of overpaying him a little or even a lot for the year he can't play up to his contract.
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/03/24/the-structure-of-david-ortizs-contract/Here’s how the 2016 option works: It starts as a $10 million team option for the 2016 season. If Ortiz reaches 425 plate appearances, the option would vest and become guaranteed at $11 million. After 425 plate appearances, Ortiz has a number of bonuses to reflect the playing time with a maximum earnings potential of $16 million at 600 plate appearances.
The 2017 option is a straight team option that likewise starts at $10 million. The team option increases starting at 425 plate appearances (to the same $11 million figure) up to the potential for $16 million if Ortiz has as many as 600 plate appearances), but there is no vesting clause that would guarantee the 2017 salary based on plate appearances.
soxhop411 said:“@JonHeymanCBS: David Ortiz '16 option vests starting at $11M with 425 plate appearances in '15, graduates to $16M with 600 PAs. #redsox”
Sean McAdam @Sean_McAdam 3m
Ortiz vesting option for 2016: Base $10M. Escaltes to 11M w/ 425 PA; $12M w/ 475 PA; $13M w/ 525PA; $14M w/ 550PA; $15 w/571 PA; $16M w/600.
NortheasternPJ said:
It'll be nice that Ortiz can't bitch about his contract again until he gets benched for not performing and not getting his ABs in 2016.
We can relax because the team gets the historic significance, the surplus value, and the importance of a happy David going forward. As Ben noted, not all apparently similarly situated people get treated the same. Wisdom is what this intangible can be called.chawson said:
Man, I can't wait for the day when people cool it with this wannabe-CEO rhetoric. Even putting aside his off-field contributions, the Red Sox have coaxed a shit ton of surplus value from David Ortiz over his career, including last year. Stop shaming people for trying to get paid what they're worth, especially when they're fantastic at their jobs.