Reverend said:
I can live with this. The guy can be wrong and still be a superhero in my eyes.
I just hate when he gives ammunition to the Shanks of the world. I guess that's my problem, though.
David Ortiz Extended!
- Thread starter soxfan121
- Start date
I can live with this. The guy can be wrong and still be a superhero in my eyes.
I just hate when he gives ammunition to the Shanks of the world. I guess that's my problem, though.
Sampo Gida said:
Cano has a better case. The second-best bat on the Ms projects to be... Kyle Seager, I guess? Maybe Nick Franklin or Logan Morrison?
edit: Snodgrass' Muff is right: I did forget about Hart. Thanks!
They're going to find (or create) something no matter what.Andrew said:
It's best to not think about that and just ignore them.
JakeRae said:
Ortiz reached 19 times in 25 World Series plate appearances. In 2013. Three rings. Give him a Wakefield-style contract for $13 mil/yr (Dempster money) for as long as he wants to play.
nvalvo said:
Probably a stronger lineup than the Yankees had last year. In Papis case I guess its his way of reminding folks how much the team needs him as his agent negotiates an extension. Cano is trying to get the Mariners to sign Morales.
I don't really get excited about anything Papi says, or any player for that matter. At one time he was the mature guy and leader who tried to keep Manny in line, and since Manny left he has kind of regressed, at least that's how it seems. However, as long as he is the force that he is at the plate, who cares. I am at the age where players just seem like silly kids with large wallets. I like watching them play but tune out when they speak.
Sampo Gida said:
I'm not sure what you are expecting or looking for - he showed plenty of leadership on the field and in the dugout last October.
Part of the David Ortiz package is that he wears his heart on his sleeve without apology. I still want him on my favorite team and I really don't give a shit if the occasional quote gives the Shaughnessys of the world another excuse to try and tear him down. My only hope is that he and the team find a graceful way to wind down his career when the time does come.
nvalvo said:
Sampo Gida said:
If they do, that line up is probably above average. Don't forget Corey Hart signed with them. If he's remotely healthy, he's the second best bat on that team right now and a 3-4-5 of Hart, Cano, Morales is pretty good. Add what could end up being the best rotation in that division and a Morales signing could put them firmly into the wild card hunt. So yeah, Cano has a point. And I read Papi's comments to be the same thing, in an archaic way. I don't think the Sox have any plans to bring in a couple of mid 20's stud power hitters because the cost would derail the prospect pipeline again. Clearly, the hope is that Xander steps up and in the next few years grows into that 30 home run threat he's been projected to be and that they find one more young source of power among their prospects for when Papi finally declines and retires or moves on to another team. Outside of that, keeping an eye on the free agent market for more guys like Napoli or value trades like Carp or even bench players like Gomes is a way to provide a little extra pop in the lineup without breaking the bank.
Having 2 or 3 stud power hitters in the middle of the lineup just isn't how rosters are built anymore. Roster depth, platooning, focusing on individual match ups, ballpark effects, ect are how smart teams are gaining that difference making inch on their competition. As much as Papi would like to see a 2003-2005 lineup out there, it's just not going to happen again. This has been mentioned in the past, but the Red Sox dominated the league offensively last year with a 57 run advantage over the second place team, Detroit, but finished 5th in home runs, 34 behind league leading Baltimore. Behind the Sox in 6th? Detroit.
Smart teams aren't fixated on the long ball right now.
Yeah, MLB.com reporting that it is $15 million for 2015, on top of this year.Dick Pole Upside said:
link: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/red-sox-david-ortiz-close-to-finalizing-one-year-15-million-contract?ymd=20140321&content_id=69807806&vkey=news_mlb
The Papi-Manny duo made for some good times, but in the "nothing was more fun to watch" category, there was a recent Sox that was certainly more fun (or maybe not, because it was so unfair):luckysox said:
Pedro '99-00: That man was walking on water.
@GordonEdes: Source: Sox, Ortiz reach deal on extension just north of $15 million. Deal could be announced tomorrow
RedOctober3829 said:
And since Opening Day was technically yesterday thanks to the opener in Australia, I don't think this impacts the 2014 CBT numbers at all.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
I read recently that extensions don't impact the CBT anymore for the current season if the extension is in effect next year. I can't find the original source, but there's an article about Mike Trout's extension that references it.
Also, it doesn't sound like this extension is going to raise his AAV from what we're hearing, I wouldn't be shocked if it lowers it just a bit if they do make this a new 2 year contract starting in 2014.
Jon Morosi @jonmorosi 2m
Source says Ortiz deal with Red Sox may include club option for 2016 that becomes a vesting player option with certain PA threshold.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/447849143625863168
Source says Ortiz deal with Red Sox may include club option for 2016 that becomes a vesting player option with certain PA threshold.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/447849143625863168
judyb said:
The number being reported is $16M for 2015.
Edit: Forgot about the escalator triggered for his 2014 salary, it's $15M, so a 2-year deal would be 2/$31M and it would still raise his CBT # by half a million.
I've got no problem with this one bit. B-R had his earnings to date at $112m. If we're overpaying the last few years to make sure he retires a Red Sox, it's the one guy that deserves it.
For some reason, Alex Speier had his 2014 AAV at $17M. It sounds like the new one is an extension, anyway.
PaulinMyrBch said:
Amen.
Without this: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/11493214/v31138947 , there are no duckboats in 2013.
Puts a smile on my face every time I watch it.
1918stabbedbyfoulke said:
Hadn't seen that before; thanks for sharing. (Obviously just kidding and, as far as I'm concerned, that clip can be shared as often as possible.)
On a serious note, I understand and share people's worry about Ortiz's inevitable decline. However, he's coming off of a 600 PA, 160 OPS+ season. Also, of note, a 1.948 OPS in the 2013 post-season - an otherwise pitching-dominated post-season run.
Of course there is risk involved when giving an $16M extension to a 38 yr old player, but it's only for this and next season, and he could very well remain one of the best DHs in the game over the course of that deal. Risk Worth Taking in Spades.
I'm fine with the 1-year extension, but options for 16 and 17? I'm not comfortable with being on the hook for a DH over 40.
mauidano said:
Unless he slips from an elite hitter to merely a good hitter. If instead of a .300/30hr guy, Ortiz winds up a .270/25hr guy (or worse) and the bench him to prevent his option from vesting.
It'll be hard under this contract to avoid paying Ortiz an '08 Schilling Salary. Not my money, so I don't care about a one year cash dump on whatever Ortiz is capable of in 2016 or 2017, but the front office might see things differently.
RedOctober3829 said:
It'll be nice that Ortiz can't bitch about his contract again until he gets benched for not performing and not getting his ABs in 2016.
Hank Scorpio said:
Call me crazy, but maybe we should wait to see what the terms of the vesting option are first?
People have been worried about overpaying for an extra year of Ortiz on this site for 3-4 years now. As far as I'm concerned, I will gladly take the security of having Ortiz around for the full length of his time as an elite or very good hitter for the price of overpaying him a little or even a lot for the year he can't play up to his contract.
Glad to see this finally get done. I think we've officially heard the last of the Ortiz/Sox contract gripe. Without knowing exactly what the vesting criteria is for the 2016 option it's a little tough to comment on that but I'm sure it's reasonable for both sides. As far as the 2017 club option, it seems pretty cut and dry: if he keeps producing, they'll keep paying.
I can't imagine him in any other uniform and, quite frankly, don't want to. This is the guy for us who, if we were ever gonna maybe overpay or overextend, we should do it for. I have no doubt that at least two of those parades don't happen without him. Those alone are worth their weight in gold.
I can't imagine him in any other uniform and, quite frankly, don't want to. This is the guy for us who, if we were ever gonna maybe overpay or overextend, we should do it for. I have no doubt that at least two of those parades don't happen without him. Those alone are worth their weight in gold.
Sounds like a good deal for all involved.
2015: An extra year of security, no matter what.
2016: If he stays in the lineup, he gets another year, which is good for him. Even if he doesn't, the Red Sox can keep him around if they want to.
2017: Up to the Red Sox - so if he's still productive and still a good value/good decision for the Red Sox, he's here for this year too.
2015: An extra year of security, no matter what.
2016: If he stays in the lineup, he gets another year, which is good for him. Even if he doesn't, the Red Sox can keep him around if they want to.
2017: Up to the Red Sox - so if he's still productive and still a good value/good decision for the Red Sox, he's here for this year too.
Very happy to see this done. Keeps Ortiz in a Red Sox uniform for the rest of his playing career, the money seems fair, and it gives the team a reasonable runway to ease him off the roster if his performance declines before 2017. The spectre of a pinstriped Big Papi launching bombs in the Bronx is now extinguished for good.
1918stabbedbyfoulke said:
"Benoit delivers. Swing and a high, deep drive into right field, that one's scalded to right! Hunter on the move, racing back! It's over his head! IT'S GONE! It's into the bullpen! This game is tied! This game is tied! DAVID ORTIZ! DAVID ORTIZ! DAVID ORTIZ!"
“@JonHeymanCBS: David Ortiz '16 option vests starting at $11M with 425 plate appearances in '15, graduates to $16M with 600 PAs. #redsox”Ed Hillel said:
https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/448121838338457600
https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/448121838338457600
soxhop411 said:
Does it gradually increase to $16M, or is it a one time bump from $11M to $16M on PA #600?
Ortiz had exactly 600 PAs in 2013, 605 in 2011, 606 in 2010... he fell short in 2012 (383).
Over the course of his Red Sox career, he's failed to make 600 PAs in 2003 (509, wasn't a regular until sometime in May if I recall), 2008 (491) and 2012 (383).
With him being within 10 PAs of meeting this threshold in three of the last four seasons (in which he was mostly healthy), I hope this doesn't come down to another public contract spat if the Red Sox suddenly decide they're better off not rotating Ortiz and Napoli in the NL games. In 2010, 2011 and 2013, Ortiz would basically be one or two interleague starts away from not meeting his PA incentive.
(Edit: Corsi answered, and I type slow)
NortheasternPJ said:
Man, I can't wait for the day when people cool it with this wannabe-CEO rhetoric. Even putting aside his off-field contributions, the Red Sox have coaxed a shit ton of surplus value from David Ortiz over his career, including last year. Stop shaming people for trying to get paid what they're worth, especially when they're fantastic at their jobs.
Would have preferred the vesting option in 2016 was simply a team option of course, but I guess not a bad deal overall.
Absolute worst case scenario, Ortiz is healthy but unproductive and the Sox are on the hook for a 3 year, 47 million contract from this point going forward.
From a strictly on-field business perspective, given his age and likely suitors in FA, they were probably better off just letting him play out the year and then figuring things out at the end of the season. But clearly the FO was influenced by other factors as well. Maybe Papi's pouting actually worked.
All things considered, 1 year extension at 16M makes pretty good sense to me. The vesting option a bit less so, since it certainly opens up the possibility of some awkwardness if he is a platoon player or just not very good in 2015, but it's not the end of the world. I guess they were serious about wanting to make sure he never plays with another team.
Absolute worst case scenario, Ortiz is healthy but unproductive and the Sox are on the hook for a 3 year, 47 million contract from this point going forward.
From a strictly on-field business perspective, given his age and likely suitors in FA, they were probably better off just letting him play out the year and then figuring things out at the end of the season. But clearly the FO was influenced by other factors as well. Maybe Papi's pouting actually worked.
All things considered, 1 year extension at 16M makes pretty good sense to me. The vesting option a bit less so, since it certainly opens up the possibility of some awkwardness if he is a platoon player or just not very good in 2015, but it's not the end of the world. I guess they were serious about wanting to make sure he never plays with another team.
I think the vesting option makes sense in that, if Ortiz is healthy and productive enough to be a more or less full-time player in 2015, he will probably be closing in on 500 home runs sometime in 2016. The potential marketing value of that situation seems significant enough to be worth a small gamble to ensure that if it happens, it will happen here.
We can relax because the team gets the historic significance, the surplus value, and the importance of a happy David going forward. As Ben noted, not all apparently similarly situated people get treated the same. Wisdom is what this intangible can be called.chawson said:
The bigger picture of course is that the Sox expect to work a ton of low-cost players on to the team over the next two years. In addition to still inexpensive X, JBJ, WMB, and Workman, they'll drop an expensive Peavy and replace him with a cheap young arm. Add Cecchini. Another young starter and a couple more arms into the BP. Nap, Vic and Gomes ($35M) will be gone in 2 years. $10M worth of old catchers will be replaced by <$1M of young catchers.
Having Papi around as a veteran leader for $11-16M will be cost-effective in every sense and not the least bit restricting. The team could extend Lester at $20M+ per and add another big, expensive bat and STILL have a lower payroll in 2016 than they do now.
Having Papi around as a veteran leader for $11-16M will be cost-effective in every sense and not the least bit restricting. The team could extend Lester at $20M+ per and add another big, expensive bat and STILL have a lower payroll in 2016 than they do now.