#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Ed Hillel]

At this point I would be STUNNED if BB is suspended for more than 0 seconds

If they uncover someone did this intentionally in their forensic scrub or whatever the fuck they are doing, I would be surprised if he isn't suspended at least half a season. We will get the "ignorance is no excuse" garbage from Bountygate that doesn't apply to his own office.

I'm just not really convinced they will find anything, if they haven't yet.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

The kicking balls are prepped by the league, not by the teams.

 
thanks SumnerH.. apparently the Kickers need a better Lobby team

 

[BigMike]

Unless this can be 100% proven to be an intentional act by the Patriots, what the hell can the NFL do to them?

 
 
What I expect will happen is that the league probably in early March will release a report that says something like, the balls were deflate and given the fact that Indy's balls were not deflated and consultants with scientists, the league believes there is a strong likelyhood that the balls were tampered with after being approved.
 
They will find that there is no evidence to indicate who might have tampered with the balls, and no indication that it was ordered by Kraft, Brady, Belichik
 
Given that they will level what looks like a HUGE fine to most people, but really is pocket change for the Krafts (7 figured for sure)
 
There probably will be a surrender of draft picks, but maybe not.
 
And the league will completely change the rules on how balls are handled

 

[johnmd20]

 
 
 
 
It's amazing that Adam Silver could address banning Donald Sterling and putting the Clippers up for sale 4 days after that became news, but Goodell can't get ahead of this idiotic story of how footballs are inflated in 5 days now. 
 

 
It really is an absolutely stunning display of leadership. Sherrif Rodge could be punking everyone.

 

[Ed Hillel]

The only reason I struggle with the refs only feeling the balls is that it appears as if the league was alerted to the issue before the game - if that was the case why wouldn't they pressure test them (aside from sting operation)?

Don't think it was a sting, since I think league would have just told the Pats to watch it to avoid this rmbarrassment and if it was a sting, I think they'd already have the smoking gun.

 

[Kull]

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=619508834842607
 
video of a high school kid testing the lower temperature -> lower pressure theory

 
This is so cool it belongs in the "news thread" so people can find it. Especially since it's looking more and more like this is the actual explanation for the whole tornado of suck.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Don't think it was a sting, since I think league would have just told the Pats to watch it to avoid this rmbarrassment and if it was a sting, I think they'd already have the smoking gun.

 
Has the Glazer report that the league - contrary to protocol - already planned to check the footballs at the half been refuted or clarified?
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/report-nfl-planned-to-inspect-patriots-football-before-dqwell-jackson-interception/
 
Apologies if I missed an ensuing report on this issue; it may well be bunk, as we saw with the D'Qwell Jackson misinformation.

 

[tims4wins]

Since the specific rule was first posted, my thought was that 12.5-13.5 was a number the league just pulled out of their ass,  simply to have an actual number (that kept everyone happy) in the rule book, with no real intent to enforce the number except in extreme cases (like the home team tossing a visiting FG kicker a 6psi ball when the game is on the line).

Yeah this is where we really need the media - guys like Reiss - to do some digging / questioning. And they need to combine it with science. Asking something like "given that PSI can naturally deflate by more than 1 due to temperature drop, should the 12.5-13.5 standard be adjusted"? as well as "does the 12.5-13.5 standard only apply to pre game testing or must the balls be at that pressure all game?" The media could easily turn this on the NFL given the opportunity and willingness to do so.

We need to contact Kyed or Reiss and get them on board.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

 
Rodgers has the lowest INT% in league history.
 
So what's your point? 

My point being that we're hearing ad nauseum that an under-inflated ball works to the offensive team's advantage, and that's why this incident is so heinous.  But the QB who has publicly stated that he likes his ball over-inflated well above the legal range, is the QB who rarely if ever throws picks, which kinda puts a kibosh on all those who are saying the under-inflated ball is more advantageous.

 

[tims4wins]

Also for the record I do not believe it was a sting - the NFL is both too stupid and too smart to do something like that.

 

[theapportioner]

So Goodell is Chris Hanson now?

Mr. Belichick, why don't you have a seat over there.

 

[alydar]

Goodell's complete absence reminds of Bush during the financial crisis of 2008. He knew he was on the way out anyway and had realized long ago the job was over his head.

 

[Carlos Cowart]

They'll lose interest at kickoff, to be honest. If the Pats lose and the game isn't close, then the CW will be that this was a distraction. OTOH, A close game or convincing Pats victory will probably cause most people to shrug and move on, except for established Pats haters.

 
Bzzzt. If they lose it will be because they can'\t win without cheating and if they win it's only because they didn't get caught doing god-knows-what. The Pats are fucked public opinion-wise either way, so screw it, I'm embracing the hate.

 

[dcmissle]

Regarding Brunnell, when was the last time any media personality paid any price for getting it wrong? You think Aikman is going to get clipped if he is proven wrong? Felger??

There less accountability in this business than there is here, where owning you were wrong at least happens from time to time, but where innocent victims of drive- by ridicule are still left in the gutter.

 

[Peak Oil Can Boyd]

Is it possible the Colts knew the Patriots played with balls that were usually under the limit and alerted the refs in the middle of the first half as simple gamesmanship?  Basically, try to confuse or distract the Patriots with some weird unseen situation similar to the ineligible receiver stuff Belichick was doing?  Then everything got blown out of proportion (and lead some people to think it was a sting or setup).

 

[Kull]

Is it at all possible, that the PSI rules are out dated and even problematic as the rule was written in the 1930's when passing wasn't a big part of the offensive scheme and the football was essentially totally different?  I mean here in RI getting the highway speed limit up to 65 like the rest of the country took forever and don't get me started on selling booze on Sundays at package stores. 

 
If we've entered an era where FORENSICS are part of the ball inflation & testing process, than a 1 PSI acceptability range is asinine since temperature differentials mean that PSI is not a fixed value, and will certainly fluctuate above or below the limits of that range. Either inflate and test the balls outdoors in the conditions under which the game will be played, or change the upper/lower limits of acceptability.
 
Both approaches would be simple to implement but are far too rational for the NFL to possibly comprehend, so we can expect National Security levels of security to be imposed on the ball prep process in 2015 in the illusory pursuit of the 13.0 "gold standard".

 

[DJnVa]

The Patriots did not fill their freakin' footballs in a sauna.

I'm not sure who's starting to sound more delusional, the media or some of the posters here.

 
You know McNabb talked about keeping his footballs in a steam room/sauna right? 

 

[njnesportsfan]

Regarding Brunnell, when was the last time any media personality paid any price for getting it wrong? You think Aikman is going to get clipped if he is proven wrong? Felger??

There less accountability in this business than there is here, where owning you were wrong is at least happens from time to time, but where innocent victims of drive by ridicule are still left in the gutter.ies

They don't need to get clipped. All they need to see are a few rotten tomatoes and eggs thrown at their pretty faces and a few signs right in front their TV cameras in Boston. The next game Aikman in Foxborough, we should all chant "Aikman sucks, Aikman concussed, Let Saints Bounty Aikman's head". 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Is it possible the Colts knew the Patriots played with balls that were usually under the limit and alerted the refs in the middle of the first half as simple gamesmanship?  Basically, try to confuse or distract the Patriots with some weird unseen situation similar to the ineligible receiver stuff Belichick was doing?  Then everything got blown out of proportion (and lead some people to think it was a sting or setup).

 
It's not just possible, it's probable.
 
And when it so clearly backfired (and the Pats blew their doors off in the second half), someone (coughjimmyirsaycough) dropped a dime to Colts media lackey #1 to try to stir up some controversy in the media for a day or two.  Then things went nuclear.

 

[mascho]

 
Bzzzt. If they lose it will be because they can'\t win without cheating and if they win it's only because they didn't get caught doing god-knows-what. The Pats are fucked public opinion-wise either way, so screw it, I'm embracing the hate.

Yeah, I'm on board with the full heel-turn. Maybe Wilfork comes out for the coin toss and cracks a folding chair over Wilson's back.

 

[PeaceSignMoose]

Yeah, I'm on board with the full heel-turn. Maybe Wilfork comes out for the coin toss and cracks a folding chair over Wilson's back.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rChfsndsIiA
 
Apologies if this has been posted.

 

[crystalline]

Regarding Brunnell, when was the last time any media personality paid any price for getting it wrong? You think Aikman is going to get clipped if he is proven wrong? Felger??

There less accountability in this business than there is here, where owning you were wrong at least happens from time to time, but where innocent victims of drive- by ridicule are still left in the gutter.

But this makes the common assumption that the media is evaluated based on how well they convey the truth.

They are not. They *are* held accountable -- based on how they produce ratings.

Media members don't get fired for saying things that are false, they get fired for saying things that are boring.

Embrace the circus - Brunell and the rest of the sports media (from Bayless to Callahan) are purely actors playing characters. Enjoy it- it's entertainment.

If you care about facts and game strategy, follow Reiss and Kyed and Chad Finn - and that's it.

 

[dcmissle]

I said Monday, embrace your inner Raider.

We win by winning Sunday, staying classy throughout, and Kraft ripping Goodell a new one in private the week after next. Then move on.

 

[JimBoSox9]

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rChfsndsIiA
 
Apologies if this has been posted.

 
That's pretty goddamn brilliant.

 

[RedOctober3829]

You know McNabb talked about keeping his footballs in a steam room/sauna right?

Zolak also said they used to put the balls in the dryer.

 

[crystalline]

 
If we've entered an era where FORENSICS are part of the ball inflation & testing process, than a 1 PSI acceptability range is asinine since temperature differentials mean that PSI is not a fixed value, and will certainly fluctuate above or below the limits of that range. Either inflate and test the balls outdoors in the conditions under which the game will be played, or change the upper/lower limits of acceptability.
 
Both approaches would be simple to implement but are far too rational for the NFL to possibly comprehend, so we can expect National Security levels of security to be imposed on the ball prep process in 2015 in the illusory pursuit of the 13.0 "gold standard".

Not to mention if you go this far, you need real pressure sensors. Because pressure sensors produce errors as they are heated or cooled.

Why Temperature Compensation Really Matters for Pressure Measurement


Much like anything else in the physical measurement world, pressure sensors are subject to changes in environmental conditions. Temperature effects tend to have the largest impact on pressure measurement accuracy. Temperature effects directly influence the pressure sensor and the circuitry used to measure the sensor.

http://www.additel.com/UploadFiles/WhitePaper/Why-Temperature-Compensation-Really-Matters-for-Pressure-Measurement.pdf

It can be only a fraction of a percent, but if the NFL is really going to get serious, get some real process engineers with real equipment.*



*sarcasm

 

[Myt1]

Ugh.  This is in response to Myt1. The latest "clarification" from Ben Volin is that backups were NOT used.
 
I guess it doesn't fucking matter at this point.  When we get the official report, history will have already been written.

Yes. And just to clarify my own post, I was saying that what Volin called a "clarification" was actually a complete contradiction instead.

 

[doc]

Yeah, I'm on board with the full heel-turn. Maybe Wilfork comes out for the coin toss and cracks a folding chair over Wilson's back.

Nah BB whacks Pete upside the head with the folding chair at the press conference pre game then Wilfork and Gronk show up and stomp Pete while BB laughs maniacally and flashes his Rings.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Zolak also said they used to put the balls in the dryer.

 
Sauna/dryer...these were things they used to do to the balls to "break them in" before it was legal to do just about anything to get them to the QB's preferred condition.  Not sure how applicable they are now to the act of inflating balls.

 

[Southpaw67]

 
Absolutely. Pretending for a moment that the NFL is competent enough to run an actual sting operation, they also would have pressure tested all the balls at the start of the game. Since the league statement is weasel worded on the pre-game test ("inspect the footballs") but clear on the half-time activity ("footballs were properly inflated") and even the end game test ("confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated"), this looks more and more like a mid-game Colts "gotcha operation".

 
This is where my thoughts were headed by mid-week.  I think the Colties had this info in their back pocket all along and decided to let it fly when the game started going south for them.  That's why all their balls were scrupulously, meticulously on target for the Psi when measured.  

 

[DJnVa]

 
This is where my thoughts were headed by mid-week.  I think the Colties had this info in their back pocket all along and decided to let it fly when the game started going south for them.  That's why all their balls were scrupulously, meticulously on target for the Psi when measured.  

 
Once the game was going south, they were in too deep.
 
If they had really thought this would fuck with the Pats they should have brought it out after the first drive of the game.

 

[Al Zarilla]

 
This was revealed in the NFL Network doc "A Football Life" on Bill Walsh.  What made it interesting is that Walsh was the first coach to "script" the first 10 or 15 plays of a game, By rule if the headset of one side went out the other side couldn't use theirs.  Walsh and Montana were fine, because they had their plays scripted; Tuna and his NYG QB were screwed because they didn't.

I know this thread is impossibly long and hard to keep up with, but the bigger point is that Parcells didn't out Walsh, but said he would if he pulled it again. 
 
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/87694-ballghazi-inflatethis-mark-it-zero/?p=5866254

 

[bankshot1]

Has the NFL unequivocally stated the Pats balls were gauged checked pre-game by Walt Anderson, and that those are the balls that became under-inflated?
 
I've read the NFL official statement, and their only statement I'm aware of, and I can't tell by the wording, which may have been deliberately vague, (they're escape hatch?) if that is the case.

 

[Devizier]

The real question is, where did the butthurt originate for so many of these critics? Obviously, "sore losers" explains guys like Hines Ward, Brian Dawkins, Jerome Bettis, Jerry Rice, and Marty Hurney (among others). But what about guys like Brunell and Aikman? I'm going with drugs for the former. Maybe Aikman is just sad that guys like Brady make his career numbers look pedestrian by context. But, to be honest, he can blame Bill Polian for that.

 

[dcmissle]

No, it has not.

And for the 2nd time, this was not a sting.

 

[twibnotes]

The real question is, where did the butthurt originate for so many of these critics? Obviously, "sore losers" explains guys like Hines Ward, Brian Dawkins, Jerome Bettis, Jerry Rice, and Marty Hurney (among others). But what about guys like Brunell and Aikman? I'm going with drugs for the former. Maybe Aikman is just sad that guys like Brady make his career numbers look pedestrian by context. But, to be honest, he can blame Bill Polian for that.

Maybe Aikman is just a dummy.

 

[riboflav]

 
And even if they were alerted, how seriously did they take it?  IF we are to believe the Colts brought this up after the regular season meeting (and there's been no corroboration of that at all), why would the league wait until the AFC Championship game to act?  The Pats played how many games since without any further investigation, or at least a hint of being monitored more closely?
 
And even if we go with the notion that the Colts alerted the league only in the lead up to the game, again how seriously do you think they took the allegations?  Perhaps not enough to give the heads up to the refs to watch things extra close?  I could buy that.  Goodell had his investigative gestapo ready to march on Foxboro Monday morning but never considered that he'd need the refs on board before the game.
 
My guess is that it wasn't until the Colts formally protested or complained or whatever during the game that the refs became involved at all.  And surprise surprise, they're caught with their pants down because their inspection of the balls pre-game was cursory at best.  Now the league is between a rock and a hard place between the desire to "catch" the Patriots and protecting their refs who did their job to the extent that every game in history to that point deemed was enough to get by.

 
It's also why TB and BB treated it so seriously on Thursday using phrases like "integrity of the game." The Patriots probably figured out that the refs didn't do their jobs pre-game and that the NFL was really stuck between a rock and a hard place. So, the Patriots on Thursday say, "Yes, this is a really big deal and we cannot wait to hear from the NFL about what happened. I'm sure they treated the whole ball-prep process as seriously as they say they take it. Your move, NFL."

 

[snowmanny]

Has the NFL unequivocally stated the Pats balls were gauged checked pre-game by Walt Anderson, and that those are the balls that became under-inflated?
 
I've read the NFL official statement, and their only statement I'm aware of, and I can't tell by the wording, which may have been deliberately
vague, (they're escape hatch?) if that is the case.

Absent a smoking gun (e.g. an equipment guy flips), in order to impose a penalty I would think they would need actual psi numbers from initial inspection and halftime for the Pats balls and the Colts balls that someone in Cambridge verifies could not be explained by atmospheric conditions or measurement error.

 

[ifmanis5]

Assuming she lives long enough, I'd love to read Doris Kearns Goodwin's bestseller on this topic:
 
Sour Grapes and Bullshit: How One Of The Greatest Runs In NFL History Was Deflated By Exaggerated Scandals And Incompetence: The NFL 2006-2015, A Time Of Cretinous Hysteria And Resentment.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

Maybe Aikman is just a dummy.

Maybe?

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

Assuming she lives long enough, I'd love to read Doris Kearns Goodwin's bestseller on this topic:
 
Sour Grapes and Bullshit: How One Of The Greatest Runs In NFL History Was Deflated By Exaggerated Scandals And Incompetence: The NFL 2006-2015, A Time Of Cretinous Hysteria And Resentment.

She'll likely crib this thread.

 

[Harry Hooper]

As a disciple of this thread all week, (I probably have @1,000 views of the almost 600k) I have to say, the fleshing out some theories and science and possibilities of wtf happened is awesome.   A couple questions for the more learned.
 
Is it at all possible, that the PSI rules are out dated and even problematic as the rule was written in the 1930's when passing wasn't a big part of the offensive scheme and the football was essentially totally different?  I mean here in RI getting the highway speed limit up to 65 like the rest of the country took forever and don't get me started on selling booze on Sundays at package stores. 
 
If it is possible to affect the internal PSI with heat isn't it possible that kickers would want the ball internal temp low at the official testing, and as it warms up, the PSI increases and makes the ball harder?

. According to King's Game 150 article, looks like kicking balls are prepped by a duo - one from each team.

 

[kartvelo]

Absent a smoking gun (e.g. an equipment guy flips), in order to impose a penalty I would think they would need actual psi numbers from initial inspection and halftime for the Pats balls and the Colts balls that someone in Cambridge verifies could not be explained by atmospheric conditions or measurement error.

And then they'd have to have some evidence that it was done by the Pats and not by the Colts as sabotage.

 

[jsinger121]

Maybe Aikman is just a dummy.

He got hit in the head one too many times.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Has the NFL unequivocally stated the Pats balls were gauged checked pre-game by Walt Anderson, and that those are the balls that became under-inflated?
 
I've read the NFL official statement, and their only statement I'm aware of, and I can't tell by the wording, which may have been deliberately vague, (they're escape hatch?) if that is the case.

The JDs and PR guys here have already come out and opined that the specific wording the NFL used was CYA-ese for the refs didnt adequately gauge-check the balls for this specific game.

 

[bankshot1]

The JDs and PR guys here have already come out and opined that the specific wording the NFL used was CYA-ese for the refs didnt adequately gauge-check the balls for this specific game.

Thanks
 
The NFL statement reads that way. You can't tell if they are talking about that specific game or "the game" in general. It would have been very easy to state Walt Anderson gauged checked the Pat balls pre-game, they were approved by Anderson, but later to have been gauged checked to have been under-inflated by about 2 psi.
 
IMO this smells like CYA by Anderson and the league,
 
And if if thats the case, and the Pats absent a smoking gun are harshly penalized, I hope Kraft says "screw it" and goes Al Davis on the league and sues them.  

 

[riboflav]

Assuming she lives long enough, I'd love to read Doris Kearns Goodwin's bestseller on this topic:
 
Sour Grapes and Bullshit: How One Of The Greatest Runs In NFL History Was Deflated By Exaggerated Scandals And Incompetence: The NFL 2006-2015, A Time Of Cretinous Hysteria And Resentment.

 
That would be great seeing as how she's a proven cheat, herself.

 

[ifmanis5]

She'll likely crib this thread.

She could do a lot worse. Most sources of information on this topic are abysmal to shameful.
 
The 'tainted' balls resulted in a first half score of 17-7. The 'correct' balls of the second half resulted in a score of 28-0. WHAT. ARE. WE. EVEN. TALKING. ABOUT.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The real question is, where did the butthurt originate for so many of these critics? Obviously, "sore losers" explains guys like Hines Ward, Brian Dawkins, Jerome Bettis, Jerry Rice, and Marty Hurney (among others). But what about guys like Brunell and Aikman? I'm going with drugs for the former. Maybe Aikman is just sad that guys like Brady make his career numbers look pedestrian by context. But, to be honest, he can blame Bill Polian for that.

 
This has been said before, but if Mark Brunell was such an expert on character, he wouldn't have gone bankrupt

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Paraphrasing Bill Maher:

Watching CNN you would think Tom Brady caught Ebola, took control of an air Malaysia flight, and crashed it into Benghazi.