I most definitely don't want anyone to see my personal data either. Not that I have anything to hide but it's MY right not to share that. In TB's case, his personal data is far more "important" to the world's hunger for celebrity hubris. So if that's all you got NFL, screw you.drbretto said:
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
For the record, I'm not saying they were looking at BB or even if that was the reason why they wanted the phone. That's F&M's take as to why the NFL wanted it based on their sources, to see who else Brady was texting, they already had the texts from McNally.Hoya81 said:
This is the exact intent of the NFL.Ed Hillel said:
Get people to forget about the Ideal Gas Law. Get people to forget about the contradictions with the science. Get people to forget about the $5 million investigative report from Barnum & Bailey's LLP. Get people to forget about the under oath testimony. Get people to forget that they had ALL other Patriots employees texts who Brady would be purportedly texting to. Forget it all.
HE DESTROYED HIS CELL PHONE!! GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!
If this has been addressed, sorry but how does the NFL known the text count on Brady's phone?
I wonder if Goodell and Wells knew Brady had X amount of texts stored on his phone or that had taken place in between dates A and B, and when they asked him if he would submit the texts as evidence at the hearing he told them he erased his data or had his phone wiped citing some other issue. I doubt very much that Brady took a rock and smashed his phone
One problem for the NFL is that if Brady had destroyed his phone when he did the interview with Wells, the requests from Wells to turn it over (and use of the non-compliance with turning it over as a rationale for the suspension) completely falls apart. Brady was unable to comply, regardless of whether he wanted to---the basis for a suspension then couldn't be his refusal.
That is a problem for the NFL, I think. Of course, it is also a PR problem for Brady, if it is true.
That is a problem for the NFL, I think. Of course, it is also a PR problem for Brady, if it is true.
My understanding is that an appeal will have nothing to do with whether or not balls were deflated, or whether or not the Exponent report stands up as evidence. This is clear.
Here is a preview of the upcoming court proceeding with Roger acting as bailiff in this case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcClvRt9g2Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcClvRt9g2Q
Marciano490 said:
Mike O'Malley had to issue an apology for saying "White lives matter". People, as a collective group, are a sensitive, bunch of whiny, jerks. Brady may be well polished and may have shown restraint. But anything can be spun and no one is perfect and everyone is looking and trying as hard as possible to be offended about something.
JayMags71 said:
This is the argument companies use when explaining that documents/records have been destroyed. It often sounds bad, and sometimes is, but it also can be quite true.
Footnote 2, page 7 of the decision: "For similar reasons, I reject the arguments advanced in the AEI Report. The testimony provided by the Exponent witnesses and Professor Marlow demonstrated that none of the arguments presented in that report diminish or undermine the reliability of Exponents conclusions"
Stitch01 said:
Very cool. If you could do "In Memory of Arthur Klemmer & Hugh Flanagan", that would be cool.
On a lighter note, The Pats have been to 46 playoff games in their whole franchise history. Just in my lifetime (I'm 35), I've seen the Jets play in 22. Pretty sure I'll see 46 if I live to be 120.
If he had his phone destroyed on the same day as his interview with Wells, that looks terrible. No attorney would have advised him to do that. Put it in a safe deposit box until the matter is resolved. It just looks suspicious as hell. Of course, his concern could be about data that has nothing to do with this, but it still was a bad move, at least from a PR perspective.
I'm curious to see what his camp has to say about it.
I'm curious to see what his camp has to say about it.
If a litigant or his lawyer has any reasonable thought that a thing might be the subject of an evidentiary dispute, the lawyer will tell the client to safeguard the thing or else face a negative inference from its destruction. The lawyer can't make the client turn it over or prevent him from destroying it.
I need to be clearer on the timing, but the phone stuff -- while certainly a headline-grabber -- is something more than a red herring.
I need to be clearer on the timing, but the phone stuff -- while certainly a headline-grabber -- is something more than a red herring.
NFL says NFLPA could have brought in McNally/Jastremski to address their roles to clear Brady, and NFLPA declined.
— Rich Hill (@PP_Rich_Hill) July 28, 2015
They already testified in the WR, why rehash?
— Rich Hill (@PP_Rich_Hill) July 28, 2015
They already testified in the WR, why rehash?
On the one hand, the optics re the phone is awful. On the other, he's a mega celebrity with mega celebrity friends and he's turning over texts and pictures to a questionable party re confidentiality.
Still... That looks bad.
Ok that said, none of this adds up to 4 games. The competitive advantage is dubious. The obligation to cooperate at that level is not there. The burden of proof that something actually went down is very limited. The lack of systems and controls in place betray the seriousness this topic is now being given.
The train got rolling and there were two courses -- diffuse or protect the shield (ie, your own office). Goodell is out for himself and set his priorities. He would rather look the fool than to look weak.
Still... That looks bad.
Ok that said, none of this adds up to 4 games. The competitive advantage is dubious. The obligation to cooperate at that level is not there. The burden of proof that something actually went down is very limited. The lack of systems and controls in place betray the seriousness this topic is now being given.
The train got rolling and there were two courses -- diffuse or protect the shield (ie, your own office). Goodell is out for himself and set his priorities. He would rather look the fool than to look weak.
RGREELEY33 said:
I mean, Brady obviously discussed the Deflategate issue with people outside of McNally and Jastremski, especially once it became a huge news story. I'm sure he discussed the issue with others whose phones the NFL did not have, and that was why Wells would want them. Brady is under no obligation to hand over his phone, and I understand why he would not, regardless of guilt. Still, knowing the importance of the phone, and that Wells had asked for relevant texts, wiping the phone of his texts around the time Wells was investigating him is not a good look.
True, but that's usually done before anyone knows they are being investigated for a crime.
Another mistake of not suspending Hardy and others stronger, could have used them as bodyguards when he crosses east of I-91.Laser Show said:
weeba said:
Relevant from that tweet:
So this also seems like a pretty strong indicator that the halftime measurements to be recorded this year are going to be a complete sham. The Roger Goodell's NFL is apparently the greatest force in the entire universe.
Riddle me this.
1. It's clear that Brady never had any intention of turning over his private phone (or emails, or voice messages...). As a member of the NLPA he needed to draw a line and not set precedent for future players.
2. The NFL PR machine will keep stating that he was allowed to personally vet all messages and only turn over those that related to their investigation. That's irrelevant, given item (1) above.
3. If he wanted to look like he was cooperating (rather than upholding players' rights), he could have handed over to them 1,000 messages that were exculpatory.
4. He had no intention of setting even that precedent. He also knew that if he handed over 1,000 - the NFL would just say there were 5,000 more that confirmed his guilt.
1. It's clear that Brady never had any intention of turning over his private phone (or emails, or voice messages...). As a member of the NLPA he needed to draw a line and not set precedent for future players.
2. The NFL PR machine will keep stating that he was allowed to personally vet all messages and only turn over those that related to their investigation. That's irrelevant, given item (1) above.
3. If he wanted to look like he was cooperating (rather than upholding players' rights), he could have handed over to them 1,000 messages that were exculpatory.
4. He had no intention of setting even that precedent. He also knew that if he handed over 1,000 - the NFL would just say there were 5,000 more that confirmed his guilt.
DrewDawg said:
Did the wireless company turn this over willingly to a non-subpoena power NFL investigator?
And unless they are destroyed pursuant to a regular policy AND not at a time when it's apparent that those records may be of use in litigation -- even to your opponents -- destruction can have some bad consequences in litigation.
If I read the decision right, he said he destroyed the one they wanted pursuant to his regular practice, but not the one previous to that? That's not a good situation, credibility-wise.
NFLPA said Brady counseled to not share phone. Goodell, for some reason, doesn't believe that. Also adds nobody told TB to destroy the thing
— Tom E. Curran (@tomecurran) July 28, 2015
— Tom E. Curran (@tomecurran) July 28, 2015
He should have destroyed the phone. If you have no intention of ever handing over the phone, what better way is there to make sure that happens. The PA didn't want him sharing the phone. Nobody wanted him to hand over his personal cell phone. Fuck the optics. We're about 6 months too late to be worried about optics.
To me, it means ZERO whether Brady just didn't turn the phone over or didn't turn the phone over AND destroyed it.
But it will mean a lot to the detractors and anti-Pats fans, especially the Jets, Colts, Ravens, and other rivals' fans. So be it.
But it will mean a lot to the detractors and anti-Pats fans, especially the Jets, Colts, Ravens, and other rivals' fans. So be it.
The timing of the phone destruction bothers me too. If I've learned anything from this whole shitshow, it's to wait 24-48 hours to understand points and counterpoints, but I need to hear from TB's side why it was done that way.
For Brady to destroy his cell phone though just looks bad, flat out. During an investigation to get rid of the phone makes you look guilty. I sincerely hope Brady addresses the public and gives a better reason then he got a new phone
Scott Soshnick @soshnick 6m6 minutes ago
BREAKING: @NFL asks federal court to confirm Tom Brady suspension. Complaint filed in Manhattan #sportsbiz #NFL #preemptivestrike
Scott Soshnick @soshnick 3m3 minutes ago
.@NFL suit likely attempt to steer jurisdiction from Judge David Doty, who has ruled favorably for union in the past #sportsbiz
BREAKING: @NFL asks federal court to confirm Tom Brady suspension. Complaint filed in Manhattan #sportsbiz #NFL #preemptivestrike
Scott Soshnick @soshnick 3m3 minutes ago
.@NFL suit likely attempt to steer jurisdiction from Judge David Doty, who has ruled favorably for union in the past #sportsbiz
Destroying the phone was wise for all of the reasons stated above. It's also wise because, while he hadn't been hacked in that whole scandal, the phrase "Tom Brady's cell phone" were gonna be out there and the risk of getting hacked probably jumped exponentially as a result.
They weren't getting the phone anyhow but now it was a potential target for hackers
They weren't getting the phone anyhow but now it was a potential target for hackers
Stitch01 said:
Awesome. I'll take your word for it. If we ever meet in person, I'll buy you a beer.
Domestic but still a beer.