#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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Dan Murfman

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Joe Nocera of the NYT is coming up on WFAN with Ricard Neer.

Edit:No he's not. He was just referencing his story.
 
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dhappy42

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Can anyone explain why reporters, even good reporters, still get Spygate wrong and describe it as the Patriots illegally videotaping opponents' signals... as if every NFL team doesn't tape opposing teams' signals every game. They still do.

The truth isn't that complicated: the Pats videotaped opposing teams signals from a prohibited location. How hard is that to understand?
 

djbayko

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Can anyone explain why reporters, even good reporters, still get Spygate wrong and describe it as the Patriots illegally videotaping opponents' signals... as if every NFL team doesn't tape opposing teams' signals every game. They still do.

The truth isn't that complicated: the Pats videotaped opposing teams signals from a prohibited location. How hard is that to understand?
I don't want to take away from your overall post (even though I'm tired of thinking about it), but is the bolded true? Haven't signals been made obsolete, except in rare cases like headset outages?
 

Byrdbrain

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There is certainly signalling going on on the field but I don't know that there is any significant signalling from the sideline. I haven't heard anything about anyone still taping the sidelines but I certainly could be wrong.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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Like I said, rare cases. The signals in question were to call in the plays. There's a captain on each side of the ball who has a direct mic line to the sidelines now.
Teams can count on the headsets going down without warning in every stadium. Signals are still used in those scenarios and I'm assuming that while the defensive "play" is called on the head set signals and updates to specific position groups may still be used. Eg. Secondary coach reacting to a formation and signaling his guys.
Also if you're the Steelers you don't worry about signals and just complain/blame the other team
 

snowmanny

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Coaches cover their mouths when they are calling in plays so I assume they assume everyone is watching everything.
 

djbayko

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Teams can count on the headsets going down without warning in every stadium. Signals are still used in those scenarios and I'm assuming that while the defensive "play" is called on the head set signals and updates to specific position groups may still be used. Eg. Secondary coach reacting to a formation and signaling his guys.
Also if you're the Steelers you don't worry about signals and just complain/blame the other team
I understand. It's still rare enough that the effort might not be worth it - they can focus those minds on more meaningful areas of game preparation. When they go out, it's not always for a whole quarter or half. The reason I raised this is because I thought I had read somewhere that the practice wasn't really done anymore. In any case, it seems we're all just guessing until someone finds some recent quotes.
 

DourDoerr

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One giant casualty of the Pats not making the SB is that the NYT story - which was starting to get traction - will now be buried under 2 weeks of Manning/Newton coverage. It'd get a lot of play in the 2 weeks following the Conf. Championships with the media starved for stories. Big missed opportunity to right some wrongs.
 

soxhop411

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“@BenVolin: So NFL ordered spot checks, testing before, during and after games, and logging of PSIs, but then tossed the data after the games. Got it”

Integrity of the game my ass
 

Harry Hooper

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No violations, really? So there were no footballs above 13.5 or below 12.5 all season?
 

Section15Box113

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Follow-up question for you, Roger. By "no violations," does that mean no footballs measured below 12.5 psi this season, even in Minnesota playoff game where it was reported that the balls were tested?
 

Section15Box113

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A year ago at this time, you stated the following: "We don't know enough to know who is responsible or in fact if there is even an infraction."

Given the testing over the course of the season, what makes you certain there was an infraction in last year's AFC CG?
 

Harry Hooper

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Looks like WellReportContext.com hasn't added a link to the Nocera column yet, but they do have a link to Wetzel's latest.

Re-reading the Financial Post article that Quintanariffic posted upthread in September, you can find another take on the weird number of footballs in the Pats ballbag at halftime:

It scarcely seems possible that a Colt ball could have been included in the Patriot bag but, remarkably, there is contemporary support. Colt defensive half D’Qwell Jackson had claimed that the Patriots were using a Colt ball late in the first half. Inadvertent inclusion of a Colt football would also explain another loose end: There were 11 balls in the Patriot bag even though one intercepted ball in NFL possession and one given away as a souvenir should have left 10.
 

E5 Yaz

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Goodell's answers still leave several important questions unanswered, which perhaps he'll be asked later in the week if members of the Boston media are given a chance by NFL staffers to ask him during his annual "state of the NFL" address.

For example: What are the exact measurements? How did the measurements vary from cold-weather games to warm-weather games? Will the league be sharing that data? Specifically, what did the league learn about the Ideal Gas Law as it relates to air pressure? What did the spot checks entail?


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4790363/roger-goodell-says-no-psi-violations-in-2015-spot-checks-but-questions-remain
 

edmunddantes

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The most glaring part is that by rulebook definition there had to have been several games with violations as any ball under 12.5 is a violation, and from my previous research in one of these threads, there were a good amount of games with the right conditions to drop the balls below 12.5.

The minnesota playoff game being a prime example.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The fact the NFL didn't keep the data is pretty clear evidence that they knew it would tell a story they did not want to hear, isn't it?

A reporter with stones should ask Goodell "Roger, you cited Tom Brady's desctruction of his cell phone as evidence of his guilt. You have now stated that the league intentionally destroyed the evidence of this year's checks of football PSI in different weather and temperature conditions. Why shouldn't we conclude that this is evidence that the data was unfavorable to the league?"
 

soxhop411

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The fact the NFL didn't keep the data is pretty clear evidence that they knew it would tell a story they did not want to hear, isn't it?

A reporter with stones should ask Goodell "Roger, you cited Tom Brady's desctruction of his cell phone as evidence of his guilt. You have now stated that the league intentionally destroyed the evidence of this year's checks of football PSI in different weather and temperature conditions. Why shouldn't we conclude that this is evidence that the data was unfavorable to the league?"
that reporter will be taken out by security for questioning the integrity of the game
 
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Hector Salamanca

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The fact the NFL didn't keep the data is pretty clear evidence that they knew it would tell a story they did not want to hear, isn't it?

A reporter with stones should ask Goodell "Roger, you cited Tom Brady's desctruction of his cell phone as evidence of his guilt. You have now stated that the league intentionally destroyed the evidence of this year's checks of football PSI in different weather and temperature conditions. Why shouldn't we conclude that this is evidence that the data was unfavorable to the league?"
It would look like that scene in Scanners.
 

Average Reds

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Follow-up question for you, Roger. By "no violations," does that mean no footballs measured below 12.5 psi this season, even in Minnesota playoff game where it was reported that the balls were tested?
Actually, it was reported that the footballs were taken out of play at halftime (because the NFL knew the balls would be out of spec) and new balls introduced into the game. Which is why the second half kickoff went flying through the end zone despite the temperature.

It's all about the integrity.
 

djbayko

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Actually, it was reported that the footballs were taken out of play at halftime (because the NFL knew the balls would be out of spec) and new balls introduced into the game. Which is why the second half kickoff went flying through the end zone despite the temperature.

It's all about the integrity.
I'm curious how one would come to learn that's the reason. Another possibility is that they actually measured the balls. According to their new procedure, they would then need to remove the first half footballs from play.

http://operations.nfl.com/the-game/gameday-behind-the-scenes/nfl-game-ball-procedures/
 

djbayko

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The most glaring part is that by rulebook definition there had to have been several games with violations as any ball under 12.5 is a violation, and from my previous research in one of these threads, there were a good amount of games with the right conditions to drop the balls below 12.5.

The minnesota playoff game being a prime example.
I'm sure Roger re-ran the models given to the NFL by Exponent and everything checked out okay ;-)

Help us Rachel Nichols. You're our only hope!
 

Harry Hooper

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I'm curious how one would come to learn that's the reason. Another possibility is that they actually measured the balls. According to their new procedure, they would then need to remove the first half footballs from play.

http://operations.nfl.com/the-game/gameday-behind-the-scenes/nfl-game-ball-procedures/
I think it's in the week-long Pats-Broncos pre-AFCCG thread, but I'm pretty sure the NFL announced prior to the games that a second set of footballs would be rotated into service for the 2nd half of playoff games, regardless of the findings of the measurements involving the first-half footballs.
 

djbayko

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Well, that's just super.

God forbid they do what they've always done and just play in the elements. I mean, both teams are in the same atmosphere.
 

yecul

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Controlling the facts makes it much easier to control the narrative. Integrity, truth... we all know that's not going to be found and there is no retribution or reversal. Interested parties wanted to convict the Pats of something, saw it come to fruition and will be damned if it's taken back.

You will never see another PSI number from an NFL game. The NFL will take the Brady appeal as far as they can. The picks nor the narrative will never exonerate the Pats.
 
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scotian1

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Goodell refuses to be honest, there is no way those balls in Minn didn't drop below 12.5 unless they were overinflated or kept heated.

Goodell states; NFL has proven that the "Ideal Gas Law" does not exist.
 
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Average Reds

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I'm curious how one would come to learn that's the reason. Another possibility is that they actually measured the balls. According to their new procedure, they would then need to remove the first half footballs from play.

http://operations.nfl.com/the-game/gameday-behind-the-scenes/nfl-game-ball-procedures/
Not sure what you mean, but perhaps I was not clear.

On the broadcast it was revealed the the NFL expected the balls to be out of spec at halftime due to the extreme temperatures and so they had a duplicate set of balls they were prepared to insert into the game.

The difference in the kicking game from the the 2nd to 3rd quarters was obvious to this observer.
 

djbayko

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Not sure what you mean, but perhaps I was not clear.

On the broadcast it was revealed the the NFL expected the balls to be out of spec at halftime due to the extreme temperatures and so they had a duplicate set of balls they were prepared to insert into the game.

The difference in the kicking game from the the 2nd to 3rd quarters was obvious to this observer.
Yes, Harry Hooper clarified above, thanks! I wasn't aware that it was announced on the broadcast. I assumed it was some reporting after the fact.
 

E5 Yaz

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At a Tuesday press conference, NFL executive V.P. Brian Rolapp said that the league will consider allowing players and coaches to view video generated during a given game. Rolapp explained that preseason and Pro Bowl testing has allowed the league to determine that, technologically, it can be done.

Whether the league can permit coaches and players to view video is a different question from whether it should.

“Let’s make sure that whatever we do, that the focus is still the human competition,” Rolapp said after the event, via the Associated Press. “We don’t want it to replace the human competition because that’s what people still want to watch.”


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/02/nfl-to-consider-putting-video-on-sideline-tablets/

So, we don't want them filming the opposing sidelines for use in future weeks, but we might give them access to full views of defensive and offensive schemes during the game
 

soxhop411

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At a Tuesday press conference, NFL executive V.P. Brian Rolapp said that the league will consider allowing players and coaches to view video generated during a given game. Rolapp explained that preseason and Pro Bowl testing has allowed the league to determine that, technologically, it can be done.

Whether the league can permit coaches and players to view video is a different question from whether it should.

“Let’s make sure that whatever we do, that the focus is still the human competition,” Rolapp said after the event, via the Associated Press. “We don’t want it to replace the human competition because that’s what people still want to watch.”


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/02/nfl-to-consider-putting-video-on-sideline-tablets/

So, we don't want them filming the opposing sidelines for use in future weeks, but we might give them access to full views of defensive and offensive schemes during the game
the NFL is starting to have the integrity of the IOC
 

Deathofthebambino

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As usual, Dan Wetzel nails it:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-s-missing-data-on-air-pressure-is-another-black-eye-in-deflate-gate-saga-025852568.html

"We do spot checks to prevent and make sure the clubs understand that we're watching these issues," Goodell said on "The Rich Eisen Show" on Tuesday. "It wasn't a research study. They simply were spot checks."

Spot checks?

Here's how it was written as an "update" to the NFL's operation manual back in August 2015:

"At designated games, selected at random, the game balls used in the first half will be collected by the KBC [kicking-ball coordinator] at halftime, and the League's Security Representative will escort the KBC with the footballs to the Officials' Locker room. During halftime, each game ball for both teams will be inspected in the locker room by designated members of the officiating and security crews, and the PSI results will be measured and recorded. Once measured, those game balls will then be secured and removed from play.

"For these randomly selected games only, the back-up footballs will be used for each team during the second half. Approximately three minutes prior to kickoff, the KBC along with a designated Game Official will bring the back-up set of game balls to the on-field replay station to be distributed to each club's Ball Crew.

"At the end of any randomly selected game, the KBC will return the footballs to the Officials' Locker Room where all game balls from each team will be inspected and the results will be recorded."

That's quite a lot of procedure for a simple "spot check."

Most notably, however, is this:

"All game ball information will be recorded on the Referee's Report, which must be submitted to the League office by noon on the day following the game," the operations update reads.

So all the data was recorded on an official referee's report, which was sent to New York in a timely fashion where the pertinent information – or presumably entire referee report actually – just … vanished?

August 2015: we specifically demand this data.

February 2016: no, no, we never wanted the data, why would we?

So the NFL got the info … but didn't? Or it still has the info ... but doesn't care to look?

Since the NFL established the ball-testing plan, scientists around the country have been waiting to see how the league tried to spin its way out of Ideal Gas Law, which has been accepted fact since 1834. It seemed like he was walking the league into a trap.
 

Three10toLeft

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This is so infuriating, I'm borderline speechless. I'd have almost expected the NFL to doctor the numbers and outright lie over claiming the PSI logs were never going to be released.

What a fucking joke.

Burn in hell, Roger.
 

pappymojo

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Is there a site that logs every lie, untruth or story that has been spoken by the NFL and/or anonymous NFL sources and then later revealed to be false or caused the NFL to backtrack and directly contradict themselves? Because I would like to read that.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Is there a site that logs every lie, untruth or story that has been spoken by the NFL and/or anonymous NFL sources and then later revealed to be false or caused the NFL to backtrack and directly contradict themselves? Because I would like to read that.
If I had to guess I would say this thread is the closest thing. But it's, shall we say, a little unorganized.
 

djbayko

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I always assumed they were watching video on the surface tablets anyway.
Which brings up another good point. The league makes a big deal about receiving texts and using cell phones on the sidelines, but they give them freaking tablets. Are they somehow locked down in terms of what online functions they can use or something? They could place bets online during the game if they wanted to :)
 

Bleedred

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That Wetzel article is as good a take down of Goodell and the NFL as has been written since this whole sorry saga began. Do they even have the capacity to be embarrassed? Clearly not